Densho Digital Repository - The Kurose Family Interview

Densho Digital Repository
Seattle JACL Oral History Collection
Title: The Kurose Family Interview
Narrators: Ruthann Kurose, Paul Kurose, and Mika Kurose Rothman
Interviewers: Elaine Kim, Joy Misako St. Germain
Date: April 23, 2022
Densho ID: ddr-sjacl-2-42

<Begin Segment 1>

JSG: Okay, hello I'm Joy Misako St. Germain, a past president of the Seattle Japanese American Citizens League. Thank you, Ruthann and Mika for agreeing to be interviewed for the Seattle JACL Legacy Fund grant project. This project is funded by a national JACL Legacy Fund grant, and the purpose is to preserve the rich history and legacy of the Seattle JACL through preserving historical documents, as well as supplementing the written materials by adding recorded oral interviews with pivotal leaders who played important roles in the chapter's history. So the interview team today is Elaine Kim and me, and Elaine will serve as the lead interviewer. We're honored to have with us today members of the Kurose family, Ruthann, Mika and Paul might join us, and they are lovingly known as people who are engaged with peace activism, and community service. We also would like to acknowledge Aki Kurose, a mother of Paul and Ruthann and grandmother of Mika, who passed away in 1998. Aki was a teacher and social justice activist who when incarcerated during World War II at Minidoka, was first exposed to the Quaker values of advocating for peace and nonviolent conflict resolution. Elaine, would you like to introduce yourselves and start the interviews?

EK: Absolutely. First and foremost, I just want to say thank you, Ruthann, and Mika, and, Paul, if you hop on for being able to contribute your time to being a part of this interview. Just like Joy said, it's really about being able to document impactful leaders like you, Ruthann, Mika, Paul and the late Aki Kurose. My name is Elaine and I am a junior UW intern for the Seattle Legacy Fund grant project. But enough about me. Heading straight into the amazing Kurose family. So Ruthann and Mika, if you don't mind briefly introducing yourselves and telling us how you got to be involved with the JACL. So if you don't mind, Ruthann if you don't mind starting, and then Mika following.

RK: I'm Ruthann Kurose and I've been involved in JACL for a long time. Decades. I got involved probably about during my first year of college. I initially, I was involved in the ID on other projects, and then connected with JACL through my mom and at that time the education committee. And JACL's education committee was involved with the school district and other communities on looking at quality integrated education and figuring out what that was, and it led to the dispersing of the teachers of color and students, busing students as a means to achieve quality integrated education. There's that... that has become somewhat controversial. And at that time, it probably, I think it was important that we desegregated the schools but it may not have been the best way to ensure equal academic achievement. Do you want know more about me still beyond the JACL?

MR: Yeah, why don't you keep going?

RK: I also was involved in JACL's Youth Committee. And we had kind of a drop-in center for teenagers who were not so conventional, who were more at risk, kids who went to Franklin and then kids who went to the alternative school Project Interchange. We worked with [inaudible] to provide a place for the some of the youth who needed to be in, who were required to be in supervisory environment for after school. We had a partnership with a crisis clinic, but mostly the drop-in center was a place for kids who felt they didn't really belong anywhere else and there was... they would play music, play pool, hung out and hopefully stayed engaged in an environment where it was supervised and they could be comfortable. I was involved off and on in different ways through redress and through the Civil Rights Committee but I found there was a time when JACL had some really talented young activists, Joy Shigaki, for one, and Tatsuo Nakata, and they were, and they were young leaders who I looked to, rather than the other way around, for talented leadership and commitment and connecting us with other community projects working on the [inaudible] Peace Foundation with Joy and then Joy also was, worked with some of the other communities to bring the Emmett Till movies. I think that that amount of things about the Seattle chapter of JACL is I think we had more linkages and coalitions and shared programming with organizations, and in a way, that's very Seattle.

EK: Okay, well, thank you, Ruthann. I can just tell from all the rich history that you had with the JACL and all the organizations that you've worked with, I'm thrilled for the rest of the time --

RK: And not very, I'm not very clear with my sentences.

EK: Oh no, not at all. But thank you for sharing all that.

<Begin Segment 2>

EK: And Mika, if you don't mind briefly introducing yourself as well and telling us how you got involved with the JACL chapter, Seattle JACL chapter.

MR: Yes, hi, my name is Mika Rothman and I am daughter of Ruthann. And she was my entree into --

RK: JACL arena. [Laughs]

MR: -- Seattle JACL chapter. Yeah, I do remember attending events with her, different meetings, and it was an organization that, growing up, I was very familiar with and knew about. I was, I left Seattle for college, and then was gone for about six years after college on the East Coast, and I came back to Seattle and --

RK: And DC.

MR: When I came back from DC, I wanted to find a way to become engaged in our community and to live up to the values and ideals that my mom has instilled in me, and that it's important to, even if it's on a small local level, support your community, volunteer, try to make it more equitable. And so that's... so it was wonderful because Seattle JACL was just the perfect opportunity for me to get involved with that. And I feel very fortunate to have been able to join the board at around, it was right around the Trump's "Muslim ban." And I thought, I can't just sort of sit back and not do something. And even though my personal involvement was very minor, it was still important to me to be part of an organization that was actively opposing the xenophobia and racism that was being spewed by our president. And so that was --

RK: You went to every demonstration.

MR: That's, yeah, that's how I got involved.

EK: Perfect. Thank you, Ruthann and Mika.

<Begin Segment 3>

EK: Heading directly into some dense questions. I will go slow with how I ask them, but Ruthann, I know, upon doing research on you, I found really interesting your philosophy that you -- philosophies and values that you held surrounding the redress movement and government giving redress for the injustice done to Japanese Americans during World War II, and also just the values and beliefs you had towards the younger generation activists and activism surrounding such injustice. So my question to you, I guess, is what advice would you give to future leaders about what actions are most effective in the work for social justice and community activism from your experiences?

RK: I think the first thing is just to show up.

PK: I showed up.

MR: [Laughs] We planned this.

PK: Wait a minute. Can you hear that noise?

JSG: Yes. Where are you?

PK: I'm sorry, I'm at the gym.

JSG: Basketball. I told you he'd be playing basketball. That's what I thought.

PK: I'm sorry. Just a minute, I'll be right there. I'm listening.

JSG: Okay.

RK: I can't believe he forgot and then he calls for something else he was calling me earlier.

JSG: Okay. That was perfect, Ruthann, when you said the most important thing is to show up and then...

PK: See, when my big sister speaks, I listen.

RK: And I think... and to figure out what's important to you. And you can contribute, I think, that people sometimes think that they have to do something really significant, but a lot of the, especially civil rights and social justice activities that have been the most successful have been movements that build and are continuous and they don't necessarily have a formula, you contribute in different ways. And that is... particularly when I look at -- it dates me. I'm a product of the sixties, and you think about the student demonstrations, you showed up, and the crowds built numbers and pretty soon you had thousands of students blocking the freeway, protesting against the war or else convening in the ID and marching down to the stadium to protest the Kingdome. And it's that I think, I don't think there's any one way other than that consistency is important and knowing that if you care about something, whatever you do to act upon it is valid. I mean, there's no one right way.

EK: Yeah, thank you, Ruthann. I think that one thing, I mean, beginning with just to show up is really important. I think that, like you said, there's really no right or wrong way. So as someone who also tries to be part of a social justice community and fight for social justice, I think that there's always this pressure of what's right or what's wrong, what one needs to do to, I guess, reach social justice. But at the end of the day, it's really about, like you said, if you care about it, that's what should drive you. So thank you for all that. And Paul, are you by chance able to talk and add to this conversation at this moment?

PK: Yeah, I'm just about to step out the door right now.

EK: Okay, you're fine.

PK: Okay. Hold on one second. Okay. I did that so you'd have something to tell Aaron. [Laughs]

EK: [Laughs] I will definitely be telling Aaron.

RK: Now, I would say that grandma, that mom would disapprove, but you're the bocchan and you get away with things.

PK: [Laughs] That's true.

EK: Alright. Paul, is this an okay time now?

PK: Yeah.

EK: Okay, perfect.

<Begin Segment 4>

EK: So, Mika and Ruthann, please feel free to chime in regarding this question, but Paul, if you don't mind telling us a little bit about the influence of your mother's work and the influence it had on you as a teacher. And also if you don't mind sharing about the JACL's Aki Kurose Memorial Scholarship that is given each year. If you could just share some information on that and also along with just the influence that your mother, late mother Aki Kurose, had on you, that would be great.

PK: Okay. Let me get in my car. Sorry. My car got hit, and I have to use a back scratcher from the backseat to open the car door.

JSG: Oh no.

EK: Oh dear.

PK: See, this is my car opener. [Laughs]

MR: Oh my gosh.

PK: Okay, anyways, that has nothing to do with your question. So certainly both our mom and our dad just had so much influence on us in terms of just standing up for what's right and for those who aren't being treated justly. And as we well know, our education system is a place where that's just rampant. And so, that certainly had a heavy influence there, my upbringing. And again, not just from my mom and dad, but from my elder siblings as well, my older sister, who just kind of gave you an example of how she sometimes would keep me in line, or how hopeless it was to keep me in line or whatever, but looked out for me and would be like a moral compass as well. And certainly my older brother Guy, my brother, Rollie, he died way too young, but he also taught me to stand up for myself. I was like, I was the baby even though I have a younger sister. [Laughs] But yeah, so all of those influences, certainly, that I have, that's how I ended up doing what I chose to do. I mean, I was privileged, after our public school system wasn't serving my elder siblings well. And they were running into -- Ruthann and Hugo got through, Guy and Rollie ran into a lot of mess within that system. And when it came my turn to go to high school, my mom and dad said to me, "You're going to Lakeside," so I went to high school with Bill Gates. So I had a very privileged high school education. And I learned math like I never would have learned math if I didn't get sent to that school. And then when it came down to trying to figure out what I was going to do with that math education, I was down in Berkeley, California getting my graduate degree in math and a master's degree, I didn't cut it to get the PhD. Had to be too, had to stay out of the gym, and spend more time studying math, so that didn't work out for me. But I started getting more and more involved in different educational programs serving underprivileged, underserved student populations. And again, I mean, that was heavily influenced by all of those, certainly our parents, but also my siblings as well. And my younger sister as well. It's not like, just because she was younger, she didn't have an influence on me as well.

RK: Jimi Hendrix and Stokely Carmichael didn't come speak at your assembly like they did at ours.

PK: [Laughs] Oh no, that's for sure. At my assembly, they were talking about how Japanese deserved to be put in camps.

JSG: Oh, no.

PK: [Laughs] It had nothing to do with race. That I guess it was just a big coincidence, they all happen to be. Anyway... and then you wanted me to talk a little bit about the scholarship. So we were... just so many things, we are very proud, but we also feel very fortunate that our mom was recognized, both in life and after she passed away for the difference she made. Both in the kids' lives that she worked with, but also in the community. And JACL honored her by having the scholarship dedicated to her. And the purpose of the scholarship is to support Seattle Public Schools students who are going to attend a public state, Washington state college or university. And we look for young people who are committed to social justice. And it's just been a real privilege and honor and gift to serve on that scholarship committee because we meet these incredible young people who are just doing great things. And it's really nice to be able to give them scholarship -- or we're not giving it -- but be part of the process JACL does in giving them a scholarship to support them doing social justice work, or not just social justice work, but being committed to social justice in their lives. And so I hope that answers what I was supposed to.

EK: Absolutely.

RK: I have a question.

PK: Yeah. For me?

RK: I don't know, are all the scholarships based on the same criteria, or are there different ones?

PK: There are different ones. Look at the t-shirt I'm wearing today.

MR: Oh. [Laughs]

JSG: Beautiful. So nice.

PK: It's kind of sweaty. At least that's the benefit of Zoom, right?

RK: It's Kazzie Katayama's husband who did that design.

JSG: Oh, Kazzie's. Yeah, that's beautiful. Isn't that part of the school as well, the middle school?

PK: Yeah, so that's pretty amazing that there's a middle school where the mascot is peace cranes. And just the message that sends every day is nice.

EK: Absolutely. I went to Roosevelt, so it's definitely better than Rough Riders easily. [Laughs]

EK: Thank you, Paul. But before going on, I wanted to see, Ruthann or Mika, did you want it to contribute to the conversation surrounding the Aki Kurose Memorial Scholarship?

RK: Only that I was, I may be wrong, but I understood that some of them are academic, some of them are based on community participation, some... I don't know if they're -- I don't know if they're, they have different criteria. I guess I should've asked you that sooner.

PK: No, Mika would be good to answer that.

MR: There's other scholarships named after other people that are based on different criteria than Grandma's.

RK: What is, what are they?

MR: Oh, well, we can talk about that later.

RK: Well, it's probably important.

MR: Well, yeah, I mean, I don't think that the other scholarships have... they focus on other things that I think are important to recognize in young people, and the Aki Kurose scholarship happens, happens to have its focus on young people who are committed to social justice and engaged in that work. And at graduation have the goal of either becoming a teacher or some other way involved in promoting social justice and racial equity. That sounds right.

EK: Perfect, thank you. I just, I've heard about the Aki Kurose Memorial Scholarship, throughout going to a Seattle Public School, and I just want to say that the scholarship is really just a wonderful way to, like you said, Paul, commemorate the values that Aki Kurose stood for. And also, I think that anybody who is able to receive it is truly like, it's such an honor to receive such an award. So thank you for -- or scholarship. So thank you for sharing about the scholarship, Paul, Ruthann, and Mika.

<Begin Segment 5>

EK: And Mika, this question is geared towards you now. And I formed this question considering, I guess focusing on how everything is playing out regarding the education system right now and the idea of, like, critical race theory and how schools across the nation, some schools are really against teaching social justice values towards younger individuals. And so I guess as part of the younger generation of activists, why do you find it so important to get involved in civil rights and social change work at a young age and what's something you would want to encourage the younger generation and even any generation to know about working within politics and justice?

MR: That's a really, really good question. And I guess I'll start with a very basic concept, which is, progress requires people pushing for it, right? And it doesn't just happen without any action. And if you look at the history of social movements in our country, most notably the Civil Rights Movement, it was young people who were really driving the movement and pushing for the change. I mean if you look at the Freedom Summer, when you had young people in high school from all over the country descending on the South to protest for voting rights for Black Americans, they were all in their, like, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, very young. the people who are trying to desegregate lunch counters were all college students and high school students. And I think they had... I'd have to imagine that young people are able to very clearly see how things should be. And what's important is that young people are afforded the opportunity to sort of agitate and persevere and push for the type of future that they know are, they know our country and society can achieve.

And so I guess... I think the danger of the anti-critical race theory movement is, number one, I think this is obvious to everyone who pays attention and sort of comes from a rational perspective, but critical race theory is this very intellectual, like, legal concept that is actually being perverted into this idea that it's like corrupting young children. And it's also, the other problem is that those who do not want us to understand this country's history of racial and social oppression, will use fear to sort of convince people that any learning about our history of racism and oppression in this country is detrimental to the well-being of young people. And I think everyone, we all on this Zoom certainly would agree that in order to progress as a country and society and community, we have to know our past, right, we have to have a full reckoning of what happened. Otherwise, there's no way that we can even begin to make any progress. And so I just think, for me, personally, the people who I look up to are those who are always focused on the truth, and always focused on uncovering and revealing our past transgressions as a country. So that A) we can make sure that things like that don't happen again, and B) continue to educate people because that's why I think education is so important, and teachers like Uncle Paul are so important. Because without that fundamental basic understanding of our history and where we come from, there's no way that we can even begin to hope for a better future. So that's my long ramble.

EK: Thank you. It was definitely a dense question and you hit every point, so thank you so much. Yeah, I was just... I know, as part of, I would say, the younger generation of activists, I just, I guess, wanted to hear from a point of view from an individual like you who's also done a lot within social justice as well. So thank you.

<Begin Segment 6>

EK: Moving on to the next question, Ruthann, this one is for you. As a woman of color who has broke glass ceilings and has paved the way for future female leaders seeking to enact equity and social change, what values do you find most important to you and have motivated you in your lifetime of work? Another dense question, I apologize.

RK: Yeah. I'm just trying to... I didn't give that one as much thought as I should have. I guess I was lucky to have mentors and role models that reached down and helped me along and they kind of were the yellow brick road in front of me. I guess let me divide up this question. The values that I find important and probably motivated me in my lifetime were social justice, racial equity, civil and political rights, human rights, and then I guess it's... I would say the same thing as probably I spoke to earlier that showing up where you need to be but... and I guess you show up to show solidarity and to support the movement, sometimes you have to resist. And I think there's real importance in finding common ground between movements, so that we can leverage our power to ask for change. But I was always very lucky, I found people who are willing to guide me and open doors for me in the community like Dolores Sibonga, Ruth Woo, I'm sure I'm gonna leave people out. And I like to believe that I also reached back and provided that kind of access and support for some of the younger people coming up. I think that there have been a lot of young people that I've had some contact with that certainly have ended up reversing the model, and if I've ended up learning from them and following their new leadership models. Because if anything, I'm recognizing that we need Gen Xers, and what's the other? Millennials, to take responsibility for making this world a better place. Because in some ways I'm not so sure we're leaving it a very good environment for you guys. And that's kind of negative, but...

PK: Ruthann is being very humble, too, in talking about her learning from younger activists because there are many younger activists who will speak of how Ruthann's been a mentor to them and a role model for them.

EK: Absolutely. I was just going to say, Ruthann, you mentioned that you would hope to be this kind of driver for -- or leaving, I guess, a platform for future generations. And I personally can attribute to the fact that you have and you continue to be a very important catalyst for social justice activism today. And so I just want to express my gratitude in that, and also in the knowledge that you just shared currently. And so, yeah, thank you so much for all those words of wisdom.

<Begin Segment 7>

EK: And moving forward, Paul, this one is, this is a question for you. So you answered this with the earlier question. But if you wanted to add more to it, please feel free to do so. But your mother, Aki, was someone who broke barriers within the education system and practiced unlimited inclusivity and equity. And so would you say that your mom had a large impact on you in becoming a teacher? And additionally, after that, if you don't mind also, speaking about how the naming of the Seattle middle school in your mother's honor came to be?

PK: So absolutely had... I can't even measure how much influence that had on me becoming a teacher. I know hearing and seeing the difference that she made in people's lives, and also the people whose lives she made a difference in, working with programs like Project Head Start. And even after she was part of the desegregation process in the Seattle Public Schools, she was transferred to a North Seattle elementary school from Martin Luther King Elementary School in the Central District. Because not only did they bus some of us kids, but then later they transferred faculty and staff of color as well. So she certainly influenced, just again, seeing the difference that she was able to make. And then as I started finding, I guess, kind of being out there, going to school, getting my education and then seeing these things, opportunities come up, just was kind of, naturally, I guess, gravitated toward doing those types of things. But not only the choice of becoming an educator, but also I think a lot about who I am as an educator. I mean, someone... there's that quote that's on that rock down near, in the Seattle Center Peace Garden, and I always tell people, I thought, when I first saw the quote, I thought, "Oh, there she goes, my mom talking about peace again." And, but it's much deeper than me, and it's much deeper than that, because she says, "You don't have peace within yourself, learning cannot take place." And I just, after I went over there and she was talking about peace again, I thought more about it, and how so many kids in our education system, and me included.

And there were times where there was so much tension in the classroom. I mentioned that U.S. History experience that I had at Lakeside. I wasn't doing much learning in that class, because I was sitting there too angry about the stuff that was being said, and so letting my students know that they didn't have to sit there being angry, they could let me know. And it was important for me to know if I had done or said something, or even if somebody else in my classroom had done or said something that made them feel... not having peace within themselves, right, feel tension, feel, anger, feel hurt. That that was important, that as a classroom teacher, that I made my classroom a place where they wouldn't have to swallow that, as so many of us have had to. And not just in the classroom, but in the workplace as well. The other thing... so there's that rock and then there's also stories. And there's one story that she shared with me that always, I've come back to so many times, both as a teacher and then in my short experience as a Seattle Public Schools assistant principal. I have one of the shortest assistant principal careers in history of Seattle Public Schools. [Laughs] But the story is, when she was at Laurelhurst, there were some teachers who would put kids out in the hall, like you're misbehaving, and they put them out the hallway. My mom said she would see these kids out in the hallway and she would bring them into her classroom. And she said it didn't matter what grade they were in, they would learn more being in her classroom than being out in the hallway by themselves. And it's much deeper than that, that they would just learn more, being in her classroom in terms of whatever academic experience she had taking place in that classroom, they learn more, probably the most important thing was that they learned that here's this teacher who really cared about them. And so often... and she shared that you don't have to guess who those kids were that were being disproportionately put out in the hallway out at Laurelhurst. Because just like they transferred her there, they also bussed kids in. And so that always was kind of got something that guided me, I guess. I tell people, look, I can't do some of these things because I got somebody watching me, but it wasn't so much watching me, but in a way, right? I mean, kind of leading me.

And so when I was that assistant principal at Meany Middle School, where I attended junior high school before I got bussed, you probably know what most assistant principals are known for doing ,right? Most assistant principals in Seattle Public Schools, their primary role is to kick kids out of school or to discipline kids. And one thing that... and I would get these kids sent to me, and I would try and work with them instead of saying, "I'm going to suspend you if you don't behave." And so kids were getting in trouble in their classrooms, and then they were saying they wanted to go see Mr. Kurose. And the principal I was working under said these teachers are getting angry because these kids are supposed to be afraid of being sent to you, and these kids are saying they want to go talk to you. And I said -- this is back when I was forty-something, I said, "I'm forty-something years old. Last thing I want is some little kids to be afraid of me." I said, "that's kind of sick." And then they gave me a list of twenty-seven names for the end of that school year. Twenty-six were kids of color, and the one white kid was a foster child. And they said if they sent them down to me one more time, they wanted them out for the rest of the year. I went to the superintendent, Olchefske at that time, and said I basically needed to do the job I was hired to do. And so I ended up not having that job after that. I went back to the classroom. But again, I mean, I shared that one little story about how my mom would work with those kids, and I think things like that just stuck with me, right? And I think the most important part of it, it stuck with me because it was the right thing to do if you truly cared about those kids that you were working with, if you wanted to help those children. And putting kids out just isn't about helping those kids in our schools. And so, yeah, both her influence on me in becoming a teacher, but also who I am as an educator. And I don't know if I forgot the rest of your question, or if that was the entire thing.

EK: Yeah, I have another part. But before that, I just wanted to say, I keep saying thanks, but I genuinely mean it. In the sense that we're, even though I didn't get to hear from your mother herself as a teacher, but just hearing from you, and you as a teacher as well and the values you carry and the practices that you have achieved, just thank you. There's definitely not enough teachers like you within, I think, not only just Seattle, but within just the entirety of this world. And I know that Kenji is on his way to becoming a teacher, too, so I can only imagine how great of a teacher Kenji is going to be. I like really hope one day, I don't know what it will -- if it's math, I mean, it's one of my worst subjects. But I actually hope to take a class from Kenji one day. I wanted to say, genuinely, thank you, and that, like I said, there needs to be more teachers like you within our education system. And I think that it's really telling within our education system too how there is a lack of teachers like you, so thank you.

<Begin Segment 8>

EK: And the second half of a question was just hearing how the naming of the Aki Kurose Middle School, the Seattle school in your mother's honor, came to be.

PK: How that came to be, is that what you said?

EK: Yes.

PK: Ruthann might know some of these details better than me, but I'll start. And then she can add. But it was when my mom passed away. There were a lot of community members who wanted to pay tribute to her in different ways. And at that time, Aki Kurose Middle School was called Sharples Junior High School. And it was named after some, I think, Seattle Public School board member like eighty, ninety, a hundred years ago, just from way, way back. And it's kind of... it was an earlier thing, these are kind of some of the kinds of things that continue to be happening now. Right? We're recognizing things like the Edmund Pettus Bridge, we need to quit honoring these people just because they were white male privileged people back in the day and start having things named for people for much better reasons, like for who they were and what they did. So anyways. I think so a number of community members, I know Al Sugiyama was one of them. There was this one, I think she was a teacher or a teacher's aide, a paraprofessional.

RK: It happened... Mom hadn't passed yet.

PK: Oh, see, I told you Ruthann I knew better than me. [Laughs]

RK: And Sharples was a surgeon.

PK: But he was also a board member at that time, right?

RK: No.

PK: I mean, way back, way back.

RK: Okay, he might have been, but it was not it was actually people from both the African American and the API community. Mostly women that were... Leah Wilson?

PK: Yeah, I was about to mention her. That was the other person I was gonna mention. So it was... and then many others as well. But I just remember Al Sugiyama and Mom Wilson being really strong advocates of it. But they didn't name the school after her until after she passed away, though.

RK: But they had made the decision to.

PK: Oh, that's nice. See, I learned something from leaving that basketball court.

RK: Well, and actually I can... thinking I remember when they had the hearing that an hour before the meeting started, I think the whole front of the auditorium was filled with Nisei women. Shigeko Ono and Cherry and Mako and...

PK: May Namba.

RK: Yeah. And then towards the back of the room was Ed Hirai and... anyhow, I think Al Sugiyama and a lot of community activists from both the Black and the API community. And the guys in the suits that were gonna be there for Sharples decided not to testify.

JSG: Interesting.

RK: Okay.

EK: Thank you, Paul and Ruthann. I think that, like you said, Paul, there should be more, I think. There's still foundations and schools and statues of individuals who have created a lot of hate within our society that are still very prevalent within schools and in public and memorials. So for your grandmother and your mother to have a school dedicated to her, I think it's only just, that that's a thing that it exists. So thank you for sharing about that. And then maybe --

PK: Just one quick comment. I mean, like, just like this t-shirt, it says peace cranes, and it has a John Lewis quote on it, "When you see something not right, not fair, not just, you have a moral obligation to do something." And so the name... with the name comes values and principles that are put to the forefront in the children's minds when they come to school, and that does make a difference. They've talked about subliminal messaging, but it's not even subliminal. It's just right out front. And so, like you said about Rough Riders, those kids are going to Aki Kurose Middle School and saying, "We're the peace cranes," and that they know what they're saying, they know what those words mean. And so they do make a difference.

EK: Absolutely. I think that if I saw -- I played volleyball -- but if I saw peace cranes coming in as just the whole team mascot, I'd instantly transfer. So thank you for sharing about all of that. And just like you said, Paul, just words of wisdom. Thank you so much.

<Begin Segment 9>

EK: And so moving on to Mika. As I just want to say, first of all, I was so excited to read about you, and the work that you've done so far, just regarding criminal justice reform. Currently, I'm actually working with the Seattle Detention Center doing book clubs with them, nd I'm really enjoying every single session that I've been going to. But as an advocate for criminal justice reform, what lessons and values do you take away from your work within this area? And that matters most to your activism, and also, what would you want to share about the work you've done?

MR: Well, first, I will just say, I think it's so wonderful that you're already doing what you're doing working with the detention center while you're in college. I mean, I think that's incredible. So you... it's wonderful. I will start with the last part of the question, which is just how I've been involved, because I think, I think that "advocate" and "activist" are probably too generous words to describe me, but what I will say is I had the fortune of when I was working for the Obama administration in Washington, D.C. One of the main pieces of my work was working on President Obama's Clemency Initiative, which focused on identifying people who are incarcerated in federal prisons who had committed low level nonviolent drug crimes and who were still... were in serving unjustly long sentences based on the frankly, racist policies that were enacted during the, I think it was like the early '80s, into the mid '90s in the quote/unquote, "War on Drugs." And what I know everyone on this call knows, and a lot of other people know, and it's been written about in academia and journalism, is that the majority of people who were incarcerated due to the War on Drugs were black and brown people. And, for example, if you look at the crack cocaine differential in sentences between crack which was predominantly, unfortunately, in Black communities versus cocaine, which tended to be abused by more white folks, these prison sentences for crack were much higher even than cocaine, even though there was no significant difference between the two substances. And so what was important and what I learned from my experience working on the Clemency Initiative is that no person who is incarcerated is there in a vacuum, meaning a lot of people grew up going to schools that were underfunded, didn't have teachers like Uncle Paul who cared about opportunities for them, grew up in neighborhoods that were under-invested in and didn't have access to quality health care, didn't have access to community parks, right? Like so many factors that contributed to that person ending up in prison and involved in the criminal legal system. And if you even then peel back another layer, what's so infuriating is that we also know that communities where there's not a lot of investment in schools are areas where there are higher numbers of black and brown people. Communities that don't have a lot of public parks because, during the '60s, the Department of Transportation decided they were going to run a freeway right through a community, right? Because they didn't care because they were a low income community of color. These are all these factors that they don't just happen by chance, they happen because of discriminatory and racist policies and motivations. And so I peel back layers and layers because the outcome is too many people locked up in prison for things that certainly, activities that they participated in, but criminal activity that, had they had resources and had they grown up in communities that were invested in them, they may not have gotten involved in it in the first place. And so when you think about how we, how we treat folks who break the law, we just lock them up. And I think that it should be more focused on how do we make this person whole? Because for so long in their lives, they've just... we throw away people in prisons, and we don't want to try to make them whole.

And so that's sort of my perspective on why I think criminal justice reform is so important. And I think the Seattle JACL is a chapter that is able to draw the connection between the incarceration of JAs to the incarceration of immigrants today to the over-incarceration of Black and brown people. And it's just really, I think, exciting and a privilege to be part of an organization that can see the connections. So sorry, for the rant.

EK: No. No apologies needed. I just, I was listening to every word. But throughout that time, the entire time, I'm thinking, what a family, like what a family the Kurose family is. We just have, you have educators who are just changing the education system. We have individuals like you, Mika, who trailblaze. And so for Ruthann as well, trailblazing politics and social justice. So that's the thought I've been carrying this entire time throughout this interview. And on that note of what you're talking about, Mika, regarding just commuting sentences and how prison is, I mean, I guess it's serves to be a source of oppression, but it's an oppression that really is unjust. And I think largely, that's why I go to these book sessions because I think that there are so many individuals within the Seattle prison center that, who just are individuals who have dealt with circumstances that were definitely not their fault. And I think that recognizing that and being able to be in a community with them is, has been a big privilege to me. But just want to say thank you for trailblazing for individuals like me who are interested in doing reforms such as the achievements that you've achieved, so thank you.

MR: My mom said that if anything, we're a family of opinions. Which I think is exactly, it's probably the most accurate way to describe us.

EK: I mean, I think that without... opinions are better than having no voice. So I think that's, yeah, better than nothing.

<Begin Segment 10>

EK: But thank you, and just to finish this off, in the interest of time and everything, to finish us up, finish off on your late grandmother and mother, Aki Kurose... and I am, just want to say I'm a super fan of Aki Kurose. I took a, I'm not sure if you know Vince Schleitwiler. He was my professor for Japanese American incarceration at UW. And I've known Aki before, but I got a better understanding of who Aki Kurose was through that class. And so, since then, like I said, super fan of Aki Kurose, and I remember, I actually wrote a, one of my one of my assignments in that class was to write about what we've learned thus far and I talked a lot about Aki, so just wanted to put that out there. But this is for everyone, so Ruthann, Paul, and Mika. Among all the projects, movements and work, social activism that your mother and grandmother has done throughout her life, what has made the most impact on you and why? And we've talked about this throughout the interview regarding Aki, but also how has she influenced the activism you've all conducted and contributed to, contributed to today? So going with the order of starting with Ruthann, and Mika, then Paul that would be great. Once again another heavy question so I can reiterate the question once again if you need.

RK: I think that my mother would first identify herself as a peace activist. And then given what's going on in the world today, my mom saw the horrors of war and she had an opportunity to work with Floyd Schmoe on the Hiroshima Peace Committee. And one of the most memorable, something that was most memorable to me was they would bring over groups of women, hibakusha women who were badly disfigured from the atom bomb, to our home, or they had several places with different Quaker families. And they would go for, to have their burns treated at the UW Medical Center. And I remember walking in on them once since they were using my, the bedroom and I didn't realize they were changing. And there you could see the kanji seared into their backs from the radiation. And they were civilians and it makes you think about what human beings do to each other. And I think that, I think that we're, given what's going on in Russia, it's different but it's... I think it's, I'm not very... we're a lot closer to pushing a button and causing much more damage than we did with the atom bomb. And I would... her antiwar activities and the priority that she gave it in her life is just as relevant if not more relevant now than it was as we were growing up. So I would say that would be, given the circumstances today, I think that was the most impactful issue that she cared about.

EK: Thank you, Ruthann. Well, thank you so much on that.

<Begin Segment 11>

EK: And then, Mika, would you mind also adding to that, by just like out of all the projects, movements and just activism that your grandmother has done, how it's had an impact on you and how it's influenced the practices and activism that you achieve today?

MR: Yeah. There's --

RK: There are a lot of things, not just antiwar.

MR: Yeah.

RK: But you might have other ones.

MR: I think, I've heard so many stories about her. And my own personal experience with her was just as my grandma, and we would do like science experiments together, which I have fond memories of. But when I think about her life, and everything that she did, this theme that I see is, she was... her experience during World War II being incarcerated, it's hard to know an alternate reality. But it seems that it ignited this fire within her not to be angry, but to dedicate her life to promoting peace, preventing war, promoting racial equity, and I think also promoting empathy. Because if I had to guess, I would think that her, the values that she held and the types of projects and work that she undertook, were all in reaction to, were largely in reaction to that experience, and trying to do what she could to make sure that something like the incarceration would not happen again in the future. And so this, just this idea of using that as momentum to create positive change at a very basic level, I think that that's something that is sort of,I hold as a North star for me, even if I won't be... you know, will pursue things in different ways, and probably smaller ways. But I'm just so grateful to have her as an example, and my mom and Uncle Paul as examples as well.

EK: Thank you, Mika. And then Paul, if you don't mind finishing us off, that would be great.

PK: Oh, my. I'm glad I didn't go first. Got to hear both Ruthann and Mika. Because I probably would have focused more on the education side. But then, as soon as Ruthann said how her peace activism, how significant that was, in who she was, just made me remember one of her buttons, one of the quotes that she really liked, I think it was a Gandhi quote about... you know that one, Ruthann? "If we're going to have peace you have to begin with the children," or something like that. Do you remember that one? Anyway, the finish of it, it's something like if you're gonna have peace with in the world, you have to begin with the children. I remember "you have to begin with the children" being part of it. And I think that is where she went, she went to work with the children. And so that was her way of working towards...

RK: She wore her peace buttons every day.

PK: Yeah, she had her peace buttons. And not only did she have her peace buttons, but I remember she taught peace, right?

RK: "If we are to teach real peace in the world, we shall have to begin with the children."

PK: Yeah, see, I got one of her peace buttons right here.

JSG: That's wonderful.

PK: And so she began with the children and she... oh this was a funny story. Because out at Laurelhurst, some of the parents got upset with her because he had this peace curriculum. And what she was trying to teach the children -- or not trying -- she was teaching the children, was nonviolent conflict resolution. And these parents were protesting about her teaching this "subversive stuff." So she dealt with them well. She kind of joked and she said, "Well, do you want me to teach him to fight when they have conflict?" [Laughs] But anyway, so it was so much a part of what she did as an educator was that focus on peace, and so being a peace activist. So I think there was one other thing I was thinking of. Or maybe that's... yeah, I can't remember what else, but that was the main thing.

EK: Well, I, right now, I know that within the fashion realm, people are trying to bring back like '90s outfits, but I think it's time to bring back peace buttons. I think that's the new, I think that's the new startup we got to go back to.

<Begin Segment 12>

PK: Oh can I, actually, I did remember one other thing.

EK: Yes, please, please.

PK: Because we, our mom gets a lot of recognition. And back in the days, olden days, right, there's a saying, "behind every good man, there's a good woman," ever hear that one? [Laughs]

JSG: Yes. [Laughs]

PK: See, behind this good woman, there was this good man, our dad. And our dad truly did have so much, contributed in so many ways, to us in who we are, in our principles, in our true commitment to social justice, but also in his support of our mom, where our mom wasn't always cleaning the house. [Laughs]

RK: He made the lunches, and he made sure that we got off to school, but he wasn't... and for a Nisei man, that was unusual.

PK: Right. He wasn't that chauvinist spouse, so he supported our mom doing, being the activist that she was, and he was an activist in his own way. I think one thing that I would add is that our mom was very fortunate to have the Quakers enter into her life. Where coming out of being incarcerated, she was able, she was sponsored by the Quakers to leave the camp to attend Friends University in Kansas. And I think that really helped her have some peace around the injustice that they encountered. Our dad, he did have anger about the injustice that they experienced, and I think that impacted us as well. And I think right when I came into the meeting late, Ruthann was talking about showing up and saying, she's saying something about the main thing is showing up and I think both our mom and dad showed up in different ways.

EK: Thank you. I just, I wanted to add just something about doing my own just like I said, as a super fan I'm always trying to look up more about Aki. And one thing that I really enjoyed was the idea that she, as a teacher, she didn't teach necessarily through grades and the reinforcement of academic validation or anything. She was really about life lessons, values, morals, and I think that, that still resonates with me. And I think that... I lost my train of thought, but just her teaching through that kind of teaching sense, is, I think teaches more -- I think, personally. I mean, academics, I've obviously learned a lot, but the way that Aki has her teaching style, I think has more, does more good than I think students realize. And so that's just something I wanted to share. And just, as we were speaking about Aki Kurose, and just kind of the impact that she's had on you all, but I just want to say -- like I said before, super fan of Aki Kurose that... I can easily say now that I'm a super fan of the Kurose family, like point blank period right here, just announcing that. But I just wanted to say from, just, thank you, thank you so much for being able to contribute your time and stories and knowledge. Like Joy said in the beginning, it's through recordings like this and accounts like this, it's just to document individuals like you, Ruthann, Mika, and Paul and also Aki Kurose, who has left just such massive impacts in society. And so, just wanted to say thank you, thank you so much. And Joy, I'm not sure if you wanted to end the recording, or --

PK: Can I...

EK: Yes, please.

PK: I'm sorry. I just want to add, our sister Marie is, she is just doing some really significant work. And anyway, I just wanted to mention her. And I think you should interview her. [Laughs]

JSG: Could have included her, sorry.

PK: No, no, no. I mean, I should have said something sooner.

RK: But I think it's because she doesn't do JACL stuff.

PK: Yeah. Yeah, but just in terms of how she's carried on, but our parents' legacy and their teachings and their influence as well. So I just wanted to add that.

JSG: That's great. I'm gonna stop the recording. But thank you so much, and then we can still talk for a few minutes. So I'll stop the recording here, but thank you.