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JSG: Hello, I am Joy Misako St. Germain, a past president of the Seattle, Japanese American Citizens League. Really happy today to have an interview with Ray Ishii, and he served as the Seattle JACL president in 1994. This project is funded by a national JACL legacy grant, and it's aimed to preserve the rich history and legacy of the Seattle Japanese American Citizens League through preserving historical documents, as well as supplementing the written materials by adding recorded oral interviews with pivotal leaders who played important roles in the Seattle JACL chapter's history. The interview team today is Ana Tanaka, and myself, and Ana will serve as the lead interviewer. So thank you so much, Ray, for agreeing to be interviewed for our project. And I'll ask Ana to introduce herself and start the interviews.

AT: Yeah, thank you, Joy. Well, I'm Ana Tanaka. Ray, it's nice to meet you. Thank you for being here.

RI: Thank you.

AT: I am one of the interns with JACL, and I go to UW. I am majoring in American Ethnic Studies as well as Human Evolutionary Biology. And yeah, I'm excited to be here. So, Ray, if you'd like to introduce yourself, or just tell us about yourself?

RI: Okay, sure. I'm Ray Ishii, I'm a Sansei, and like Joy said, I was president of JACL back in 1994. And professionally, I'm a CPA with my own practice, and I also have taught somewhat regularly at Seattle University, and now at the University of Washington Bothell. So, yeah.

AT: Excellent. Thank you. I'll be taking notes on the side. So that's what I'm doing, yeah.

RI: Okay.

AT: So, I guess, how did you become active in the Seattle JACL, and what inspired you to become president?

RI: Well, I think I first got involved, it was probably in the late '80s or early '90s. And I remember going to a meeting. And then, and I met, I met both Al Sugiyama, who really was instrumental in my getting involved, but I also remember that Janice Deguchi was at the same meeting. And so we got to work together through the years as well, but really, it was Al who both suggested I get involved and then really inspired me to serve the community. And and he served as very much a role model and somebody that I could look up to, so, yeah. And then how he got to become president, I think it was because Joy asked, way back when I had no thought of becoming president. But I was fortunate in that Joy asked. Several folks helped me out and guided me and provided support. And so for better or worse, I became president.

AT: [Laughs] I think people would say for better, I'm not sure, but I wasn't there.

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AT: So when you were president, what are some of the things that you worked on? And what was kind of like the environment, like when you were president?

RI: I think there were a few things going on during that time. There was Initiative 200, and it was, I won't say the first time but it was the first time that I remember that there was an organized movement against the gay/lesbian community. And JACL as a civil rights organization, I thought it was important that we be involved in fighting against those initiatives and really stand up for our brothers and sisters. And so that was going on. Also, I remember one of the things I clearly remember and I enjoyed immensely was the Seattle chapter working with the American Jewish Committee, the Seattle chapter, and we had some joint meetings. And Barbara Hirsch, who was head of the AJC at that time, was just a tremendous leader in her community and in the greater Seattle community. And so that was going on as well. And I think in terms of JACL, I think we were still finding our way from the post-redress movement that had successfully been accomplished a few years before. And I know, I had some conversations with some people saying, "Well, is there still a need for a JACL?" The big issue has been resolved and the redress battle was won. And so I think I think the chapter and the community was still looking to find its way. Who were we? I think, I think we had, we were a pretty, or traditionally, it seemed like we had been a pretty insular group that we really looked to the Japanese American community and what was going on there. And wasn't, individuals were, but as an organization, we maybe weren't as involved with the broader community on civil rights issues. I know there were individuals, many individuals, people like Mako Nakagawa, and Kip Tokuda, and Al Sugiyama, and Teresa Fujiwara and Patricia Lee, and many other folks that were actively involved and were leaders, both within and outside the Japanese American community. But I think JACL, as an organization, we were, we were still kind of feeling our way through that whole, that whole process.

AT: Yeah. Do you remember any, like, were there any efforts to kind of shift that focus at all? Do you remember?

RI: Well, I really think the strength of JACL has been the membership, that the community would, generally speaking, would get together and support the organization. And that's where the strength of the organization came from. And so and so it wasn't a matter of a leader such as Joy saying, here's the issue that we're now going to tackle, but I think it was, it was a process of both bringing some of these forward to the community, but then also bringing the community forward. So they would understand what the issues were, and why it would be important for JACL as an organization to be involved.

AT: Yeah. Thank you.

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AT: So earlier, you mentioned the I-200 initiative. And so I was just wondering if, really quickly, you could clarify what that was, and like, what the intention was behind that initiative?

RI: If I remember correctly, this was an effort to end affirmative action in Washington state, and in the hiring and contracting and all that the governments could do. I can't remember if it also filtered over to, you know, like college admissions and things like that, but there was a strong, there was a strong sentiment, right, that the affirmative action programs and some of the activities to lift up communities that have been traditionally downtrodden and oppressed, that that was in itself discrimination. And so it really galvanized a lot of folks, not just within JACL, but I know Karen Yoshitomi, who was the regional director then, she sponsored and I remember, hired an intern, Mary... let's see. Mary Tran Tien, who was a tremendous community organizer, and did a lot to organize within the API community around opposing these initiatives. And so really, it was a kind of a galvanizing issue at least among a certain part. I think there was still resistance from some folks in our community, which is natural, not everybody's going to agree to everything. But yeah, at least for that year, it was important that we start addressing issues, not necessarily directly impacting... well, it does impact the Japanese American community, but that has a broader impact. So...

AT: Right, yeah.

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AT: So kind of going off of that, I know that the JACL board voted to be the fiscal agent for the AAPI Homophobia/Homosexuality Education Project.

RI: Yes.

AT: And so, yeah, I just, so what did JACL do to kind of address these things that were going on? Like how everyone was, that sentiment that was so against the LGBTQ community and everything?

RI: Well, I think while we certainly in addition to serving as fiscal agent, I think, especially folks like Kip Tokuda, and Karen, Bob Shimabukuro, and other community members, really rallied the community to show that it wasn't just a small group of people that were being affected, but that really did impact our entire community, whether we knew it or not, or we want to acknowledge it or not. And I remember one of the things they tried to do was to take away some of the stigma of being gay, lesbian, or taking away the stigma of a different sexual orientation. And so I remember they made a, we made a big poster. All different people from the community got together, I can't remember how many people there were, but all, and took a picture. And nobody would, just looking at the picture, would know who's gay, who's straight. It's just here's members of the API community. And I remember that was pretty powerful. Right? I don't know if I still have a copy of the poster. But there were a lot of people there that took part in that. That was really, that was really inspiring.

AT: Yeah, wow. That'd be so cool to see that picture.

RI: Yeah, I'll see. I might... I'll see if I still have a poster. I think I gave some to Bob Shimabukuro. But yeah, I'll see if I still have one.

AT: Yeah.

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AT: So for you, like just your for your time as president, I know that there's probably a lot of different things that you guys worked on. But for yourself, what do you think like some of your greatest accomplishments were when you were, whether you were president or not, just kind of your time in JACL?

RI: I'm not sure I personally had any accomplishments. I think that's the better answer by other folks. But I really think that that during that time, I was fortunate that Kip Tokuda was president before me and I think, Joy, I think you were president right before Kip, and then Cal Takagi was president after me, I think. But I think we, we started to have the organization move beyond just redress. And I know there were certain folks that started to address other long-standing issues. There were some... there were, actually there was a resolution, I think, that was introduced at the national JACL convention that upset many of the Nisei veterans community. And so the whole, the hard feelings that have lingered for decades between some of the veterans in our community and the "no-no boy" community, and what happened during World War II, why there were such hard feelings, I remember, I sat down with the commander of the Nisei Vets, at that time, just so I got more background on why there was such hard feelings. But I know like Mako Nakagawa is one of the leaders to both address that and also to meet with some of the veterans and start a discussion. So I think there were things that were happening within our community. And then, like I said, as an organization, starting to move beyond redress and be more active in the broader civil rights community. And I think that really took off a few years later when some of the younger folks took over the leadership. And it was really inspiring to see how organized they were how natural it was for them to work with other ethnic community groups, and to address issues that were going on that were important. And so I think it was the next group of folks that I think took it to another level that was really inspiring, and I was glad that maybe I could bridge, be a part of the bridge, to help them gain their footing, and be able to take over the leadership of the organization and the community for that matter.

AT: Yeah. Going off of that, what's kind of your, what are your thoughts on the current Japanese American activism, whether that be through JACL, or just the kind of, the younger Japanese American generation? And then I know, you're also a college professor, so you see a lot of college students and maybe what they're doing and stuff. What's your kind of attitude about just the activism going on in the younger generation?

RI: I haven't been involved that recently with JACL. So I really can't speak to what the Seattle chapter has been doing. But I know that there were folks involved with the Black Lives Matter and the protests around George Floyd, that I don't remember the full name, but Tsuru...

AT: Oh, for Solidarity?

RI: For Solidarity, right? That that came out, folks wanting to connect what happened to our community with what was happening now, with immigration issues and how folks were being treated. So, yeah, I think the young folks, they're very inspiring, right? Maybe not as a collective, right here it's JACL, but they take on things and speak to issues. A lot of them are now more the mainstream organizations. I've been fortunate to be involved with a couple different mainstream organizations as a volunteer. And a lot of... well, everybody's young to me now, but a lot of the younger folks naturally are leaders in some of these other organizations, and that is, that's encouraging. That being said, there's still a lot of work to do. But yeah, no, I have great hope for the future with how aware the young folks are with what's going on.

AT: Yeah, I agree.

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AT: You mentioned some organizations that you were a part of. What organizations are you in?

RI: Well, right now I am on the Pike Place Market PDA council, that we're the organization that owns and operates The Pike Place Market. So I'm on that council and I've also been involved with ArtsFund, teaching a couple of workshops a year on nonprofit board leadership. And way back when, it's been a while, but I was on the board of FareStart which provides life and skill training to homeless or formerly homeless individuals. And so yeah, being able to both be involved in the

community and then also broaden out to be involved in some other organizations, really, I've been fortunate and learned a lot.

AT: Wow, that's so cool. Especially with Pike Place Market, I think, didn't it used to be... it was operated by Japanese Americans, right? Before the war and everything too.

RI: Before the war, there were more Japanese American farmers involved than, I think, any other ethnic group at the time. And then, obviously, with the evacuation and all, that really put... well, everybody was gone...

AT: Yeah.

RI: ...from the Japanese American community. And it's never really come back. There were several hotels that were run by Japanese American families, there were restaurants that were run by Japanese American families, besides the farmers. And, well, right now, or currently, there's, there's a pretty diverse group of commercial tenants that are there, which is really great to see. That we also, the market also provides, I think it's 440 units of low income and affordable housing. And so it really does serve a community. But there's still challenges. I remember asking, when I first joined, well, how much do we contract with women- and minority-owned businesses? And very little, but just by my asking that question, and our Executive Director, Ben Franz-Knight, was very proactive and very supportive. And so within a year, on our small works roster, it went from zero to thirty out of a hundred or so on the small works roster, and folks were getting contracts, women- and minority-owned businesses, whether they were certified or not. They, I think last time I heard this was a couple of years ago, had received something like $500,000 in contracts for that year. And so talking with Ben, he said, "Well, nobody had ever asked me about that." And so, yeah, I think they're just not, there's some malice, I guess, I don't want to be totally naive. But sometimes it's just out of not understanding and not being aware. And so it's a, it's important that folks with different perspectives and different backgrounds be involved. So that's why I don't think it's... but JACL, there's always going to be a place for that. I think it's also important for people like you and your colleagues to be involved in other organizations where it isn't just Japanese American focused.

AT: Yeah, definitely. I agree. I think it's really cool that you're part of all of these. What inspired you to join all these different groups?

RI: I guess I did a year of volunteer work right after I graduated from college that really influenced my path. I think in many ways, I'm probably a frustrated social worker in that I knew I didn't have the temperament and the patience and all to be a social worker, but I still thought it was important. My parents were very instrumental in showing me how to volunteer, not telling me, but they showed me by their example, by their helping out other folks in other community organizations. And then I got so much more out of it, I met some tremendous people. I learned so much; it helped me both personally and professionally to be involved in these. And so it maybe wasn't necessarily I'm doing this [inaudible] or anything, but it's more... I got a lot out of it. So I've been very fortunate that way.

AT: Yeah.

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AT: Did you -- I forgot to ask at the beginning -- but did you grow up in Seattle? Or have you been...

RI: I did. I'm a native.

AT: Okay.

RI: One of the few. [Laughs]

AT: [Laughs] Okay, so you have... and you said you were Sansei, did your parents also grow up in Seattle?

RI: They did. My grandparents came in the 19-teens.

AT: Oh, okay.

RI: And so over a hundred years ago. And, yeah, so my folks were born and grew up in Seattle, except for during the war years. And so yeah, we, my family has long roots, or deep roots here in the community.

AT: So then were... they were incarcerated during World War II?

RI: My mother was in Minidoka. My father, he was evacuated, but he had a distant family relative that was in Wyoming, in Worland, Wyoming, which was close actually to Heart Mountain camp. But I think it was you either had, you had to leave the area, so they were able to leave and go and stay with this relative in Wyoming. And they were actually the first ones and they actually formed a small Japanese American community there because they were able to leave the camp. Yeah, so they were in Worland, my dad's family.

AT: Oh, okay. Did they ever tell you about like their experience in camp at all?

RI: Yes. My mother was in the, I think sixth grade when she moved. So her memories are a child's memories, of a sixth grader. And so she would tell me, she'd remember that it was cold and wet and muddy, right? So you have to stay on the gang planks during the winter in order not to fall in the mud. But she remembered that the barracks, there were holes in the walls and gaps. And it was just a really unpleasant environment. One of the things that upset her was that she was in Block... I can't remember now. But it was quite a ways from where her neighbors were located, and her friends were. So she was bothered that how come she was out here in this one area, and all her friends were back in another area? And so... but yeah, so her memories are those of a child. The sad thing was that her sisters were older, and so they, most of them left camp to go work and live in the Midwest in Chicago and Detroit. So her family was never together after camp, or once they started leaving camp, so that was the last time that they were all together, which was sad for her because she was the youngest.

And then my dad, he was, I believe he was in high school. And so he was a little bit more aware. But the funny story he told me was where Worland was pretty close to the Heart Mountain camp, and so he said he and his friends, right, from the Japanese American community that developed there, they would go down to Heart Mountain for the dances inside the camp. And I said, "Well, were you ever worried that they wouldn't let you out again?" And he said, "When you're in high school, you never really thought about that. But that's where all the Japanese American girls were, so that's where we went." And so... but it was a harsh, it was a harsh existence, right? They did sugar beet farming, which is really hard work. He said that there was a German prisoner of war camp about five miles down the road. So it wasn't like they were in some tropical paradise or some vacation place it was, it was a pretty difficult existence. And so yeah, it's a...

AT: Yeah, my grandparents were in Minidoka, too, and I think they were around that age, also. I wonder if they ever met each other? Because I think my grandma was, my grandma might have been around twelve, so she might have been a little younger. Oh, no that's about sixth grade. Anyway, did you think your... hearing your stories from your mom and dad, do you think that ever inspired, maybe the activism that you ended up engaging in later on in your life?

RI: Yes, they were a big influence on me. So whether it was direct, I mean, they didn't... I think I'm very fortunate they didn't pass along any anger or prejudice, right, that you can't trust this group or beware of... so I was very fortunate that it was always in a positive way. My dad was longtime involved with the Nisei Veterans. He helped form and was president for a few years of the International District Economic Association. He was very involved with the First Alliance Club. He was very involved in all our sports and school activities. My mom, too. And so, I think that's more their influence, was in a positive way. But it can't help, right, but influence. Because it certainly influenced them. But yeah, I don't want to blame them for how I turned out.

AT: [Laughs] Of course, of course. Yeah. Well, thank you for that.

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AT: I don't have any other specific questions. But are there any... is there anything else that you wanted to maybe mention or talk about?

RI: No, I'm glad to see you doing this. No, it's great. Because I think a lot of people, whether they're known, or they've been forgotten, they had a tremendous impact on our community and the future generations, whether they knew it or not. And I don't want to keep name-dropping, but I still remember people like Sam Shoji and some of the folks that did so much behind the scenes. That, like I said, I think the strength and the success that -- any success that JACL might have had, was due to the membership and those folks that maybe were never heard of, but they were helping with a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. They would mail letters as part of the redress campaign, or do other things. And so I'm flattered that you asked me to, or asked to interview me, but I'm just a small, a small drop in the bucket. No, really, that there have been that there are a lot of folks that aren't being recognized that today are doing some pretty amazing things, and that's the way it's been. So I'm just fortunate to be a part of that.

AT: Thank you for being a part of it. I think it's also definitely a... maybe stereotypically, but a Japanese American thing to maybe not be as up in the front but doing a lot of things behind the scenes and engaging...

RI: But there's a lot of folks that are now upfront. And I think that's great. I think there's a role for both, and we should really support those that are willing to step out. And I think they're like Sharon Tomiko Santos, who has been a leader and in the legislature for a long time. Kip Tokuda, right? Al Sugiyama, who was the first Asian American school board member. And nowadays, it's not uncommon to see Asian Americans running for office, for public office. We have a mayor that's half Japanese American. And so I'm glad that, or I hope some of the younger folks can kind of take it for granted. They see an Asian American running for state legislature or something. And they say, that's great. Let me hear what they have to say. Whereas that wasn't always the case, it really was folks that that were groundbreaking. And so I just hope that some, that your generation and future generations have it that much better, and it's that much easier. And it's not because of your race or your identity, but it's because of your ideas and actions that you're gonna get judged. And so, yeah.

AT: Yeah, definitely. And that's why these oral histories are so important, and that's why we're doing this. So thank you so much for being a part of this. And Joy, do you have anything else to add?

JSG: No, thank you so much, Ray. It's wonderful to hear your reflections on just your contributions to JACL and to the community and really nice to see you. So thank you so much.

RI: Well, thank you, Joy. You're the one who, who's quietly done so much. So, thank you.

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