Densho Digital Repository - In Memory of Kip Tokuda Interview

Densho Digital Repository
Seattle JACL Oral History Collection
Title: In Memory of Kip Tokuda Interview
Narrators: Janice Deguchi, Akemi Matsumoto, Rep. Sharon Tomiko Santos, Barbara Lui
Interviewers: Ana Tanaka, Bill Tashima
Date: March 20, 2022
Densho ID: ddr-sjacl-2-40

<Begin Segment 1>

BT: Hi, my name is Bill Tashima, and I'm a past president of the Seattle JACL and current chair of our Legacy Fund Project. And our project, funded by a National JACL Legacy Fund grant, aims to preserve the rich history and legacy of Seattle JACL through online preservation of our historical documents, as well as supplementing this material by adding recording, recorded oral histories on pivotal leaders. In this session, we'll be having a discussion on Kip Tokuda. Kip was a beloved icon in our community, who was the epitome of compassion and decency and heart and who devoted his life to family and the betterment of society for all families. Leading the discussion today will be Ana Tanaka, a U-Dub junior, and she will be joined by Janice Deguchi, Akemi Matsumoto, Washington State Representative Sharon Tomiko Santos and, from time to time, me. We are also honored to be joined today by Barbara Lui, Kip's wife, who is invited to make remarks at any time. And each will introduce themselves more fully in a few moments.

But before I turn the session over to Ana, I would like to give a short Wikipedia bio on Kip Tokuda. Tokuda was born in 1946 in Seattle, Washington, his parents George and Tamako, born Inouye, owned the Tokuda pharmacy, which was located on Jackson Street at the time. He was raised in Seattle's Central District and on Beacon Hill neighborhoods. He initially attended Garfield High School but transferred and graduated from Cleveland High School. Tokuda received both his bachelor's and master's degree from U-Dub, University of Washington, 1969 BA in sociology, master's degree in social work in 1973. He was director of children's and human services programs. He served in Washington's House of Representatives from 1995 to 2003 as a Democrat. Tokuda was chair of the House Children and Family Services Committee of the State House. He was also a member of the Appropriations Committee and the Juvenile Justice and Family Law Committee in this chamber. Tokuda founded the Japanese Cultural Community Center of Washington. On April 29, 2012, Tokuda was awarded the Order of the Rising Sun gold rays with rosettes by Emperor Akihito for promoting positive relations between Japan and the United States. Tokuda died of a heart attack on July 13, 2003, at age sixty-six, while fishing on Whidbey Island.

And I read this citation because people who want to know more about Kip might go to Wikipedia and see this, but those people would be missing so much. They would not know how Kip was a Seattle JACL president in 1993 and how he used his platform to tirelessly advocate for engagement and expansion of LGBTQ issues and rights. And how, as JACL president, Kip pushed for the support of API youth leadership programs, which ultimately led to the foundation of ACLF, the Asian Pacific Islander Community Leadership Foundation. Wikipedia does not explain how Kip's time as executive director of the Washington Council for the Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect would be the basis of his work in the state legislature in protecting anti-poverty programs and passing the special needs adoption bill, and how his commitment continued after leaving the legislature as head of the Seattle Human Services and Department of Family and Youth Services Division. Kip's commitment to community was personal and it was real. Kip was a force in enacting Washington Civil Liberties Public Education Fund Act, which provides for annual funding for the teachings of the lessons of the World War II Japanese Americans, forced removal and incarceration, and how these lessons apply to contemporary society. Kip initiated the Washington State's House of Representatives Annual Day of Remembrance. Kip was key in securing funding for both the Wing Luke Asian Museum and the Japanese Cultural and Community Center of Washington. Another icon in Seattle's Asian American community is Ron Chew. Ron said of Kip, "Maybe one of the keys to his effectiveness as a leader is that he had a gift for putting people at ease. He was naturally funny, goofy and down to earth. He would make everyone in his presence laugh, usually hysterically, by making random jibes at his own ineptitude or stupidity even though he was neither inept nor stupid. It was part of his humility and his grace as a leader -- listener, and as a communicator. His humor would open the way to a great conversation, and everyone's voice had a place at the table. This was truly generosity in action." We remember and honor Kip Tokuda. We hope that this discussion here will help others to appreciate who Kip was, what he did, and more importantly, understand his incredible personal, interpersonal skills that enabled Kip to have such an impact on our community. And with that, I will turn it over to Ana Tanaka, who will introduce yourself and start the discussion going.

<Begin Segment 2>

AT: Hello, everyone. Thank you, Bill, for that lovely introduction. And thank you all for being here. I also feel so honored to be able to talk to you guys about Kip and his legacy. And so I am, yes, one of the U-Dub interns working on the JACL Legacy Project, and I am a American Ethnic Studies and Human Evolutionary Biology major at U-Dub. And, if you guys would be willing to introduce yourself and tell us kind of how you worked with Kip and, yeah, like what you've done with him. And I will start with Janice.

JD: Thank you, everyone. Hi, my name is Janice Deguchi and I was a member and a board member of the Seattle Japanese American Citizens League from 1990 to around 2001. And I had the honor and privilege to get to know Kip Tokuda in my formative years as a young twenty-something year old, just not even -- I wouldn't say leader, just a follower and a very impressionable young person. And I was so inspired by Kip, but so many other leaders, too, that were in JACL at that time. And it's an honor and privilege to share my reflections and memories of Kip with all of you.

AT: And would, let's see, Sharon Tomiko, would you like to speak?

STS: Thank you very much, Ana. My name is Sharon Tomiko Santos and I am very proud to know Kip as a longtime family friend, as a mentor, as a community leader, and as a colleague. I serve in the Washington State House of Representatives and I serve the same district that Kip served. And so he definitely was a leader in the family of legislators, and I'm looking forward to talking a little bit more about what an impact he has made in the state of Washington.

AT: Thank you, Sharon. Akemi, would you like to introduce yourself?

AM: Hi, everyone. My name is Akemi Matsumoto. I knew Kip mostly through JACL and ACLF, Asian Community Leadership Program. So we've worked together and we were contemporaries, but he had this long history in Seattle, and I was new to Seattle. And he certainly, among everybody else, just included me immediately. And I really appreciated being able to be a part of the community.

AT: Thank you. We also have Barbara with us today. I don't know if you'd like to introduce yourself. If not, that's also completely fine. And you're on mute, by the way.

BL: Sorry about that. I was with Kip for almost thirty years. He was my husband and father to our two girls, Molly and Pei-Ming.

AT: Well, thank you so much.

<Begin Segment 3>

AT: All right, so we can kind of, if you'd like to talk, just go right on ahead. So Kip served as Washington's 37th District state rep from '94 to 2002. And Bill has mentioned Kip securing an enactment of the Civil Liberties Public Education Act, that would ensure that Japanese Americans who experienced World War II, that experience will not be forgotten by generations after. And so if anyone would like to talk about just these efforts that he put into this and what qualities he had that enabled him to kind of secure this passage of this bill, if anyone would like to talk, speak on that.

STS: Why don't I go ahead and start, since I'm probably, have the closest inside information. I think what's very important is I'm so happy that the Civil Liberties Public Education Fund program is not only a program that commemorates Kip's leadership, in statute in the laws of the state of Washington, but that that is part of our collective community, remembrance and memory. Because, in fact, the way the Civil Liberties Public Education Fund bill was enacted, it did not carry Kip's name as the prime sponsor, and that is something that people often forget. It was very much Kip's style to put other people in a leadership role to help garner broader support. And one of the things that is very important and key to understanding how the Civil Liberties Public Education Fund program was developed, is to understand that in the state of Washington at the time, the House of Representatives was in a tie situation. The Democrats and the Republicans had exactly the same number of legislators. And so for anything to get through, you needed to have the support of both parties. And so consequently, during that period of time, most pieces of legislation went through ninety-eight to zero. The bill that eventually became the progenitor of the Civil Liberties Public Education Fund was actually carried by a Republican member of the House who lived on Mercer Island. And because Mercer Island had a very large population of Japanese Americans, and because the prime sponsor was somebody that Kip already had a very good relationship with, but it was also a relationship where he cultivated the prime sponsor's knowledge of what occurred in World War II, how it affected that sponsor's constituents, and why it would be very important for the state of Washington to help preserve stories just as we're preserving the story of Kip and his impact. He wanted to make sure that the stories of our Issei grandparents and our Nisei parents were remembered, and while they were still alive, wanted to capture that information. And so, it did take quite a bit of educating and it was preceded by when Kip, in 1997, offered the very first resolution to commemorate the Day of Remembrance. And that's where he started all of this. And I think that this was a direct consequence of not only his lifetime work, being the child of parents who were incarcerated, being the brother of a sibling who was born in the camps, but then also all of his leadership with the Japanese American Citizens League. He knew it was very important to begin by commemorating the events so that he could begin to educate his colleagues in the legislature. And so, I'm so very proud to be able to share that information because it was very unique at the time. And so Kip's name is not the front name, but it can never be mistaken or forgotten that Kip was the heart and the energy behind creating the Civil Liberties Public Education Fund and starting the Day of Remembrance in the state of Washington.

AT: Yes, thank you so much for that. Before I ask another question, does anyone have anything else to add on to that?

AM: I just think that...

BT: I just wanted to add that... oh, go on, Akemi.

AM: I think Washington became a model for the rest of the United States in terms of public education after redress passed. So, it was an ideal, wonderful way to implement part of the redress.

BT: I wanted to add that part of... it just reminds me so much of Kip, his engagement. And his connection to these, to this law is that it was really well thought out and involved aligning potential programs with current Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction guidelines, to make sure that anything that would receive a grant would also align with the OSPI guidelines for instruction. And he made it open to not only educational institutions, but private institutions and organizations to tell the story of the World War II experience. And, more than that, he tied it into emphasizing the fragility of constitutional rights, and how it would relate to contemporary society. And finally, Kip remained connected to this program even after it passed. And he worked closely with the OSPI office and actually made sure that any proposal was going to be looked at by a group of community folks who actually knew what they were, about these experiences. And I remember he actually recruited me at the beginning, and I stayed on there for almost twenty years looking at all these grants. But it was just part of Kip to be sure that this was full circle. It's just not passing a bill. It was seeing this through and, and that's one thing that I always remember Kip for.

AT: Yes, thank you guys for that.

<Begin Segment 4>

AT: Just kind of on the same topic, if anyone has any insight to this, I'm not sure, but did Kip ever talk about his family's experience in Minidoka and how maybe that led to his activism that he engaged in, especially with this Civil Liberties Public Education Act? If not, that's completely okay.

BL: I'll speak up about this. Yeah, definitely. He was very much impacted by not only his parents' incarceration, but the birth of his older brother who was born developmentally disabled. His older brother, Buji, I think about maybe a year and a half older than Kip, needed care his entire life. He was such a special part of the family. And this kind of ties into some of Kip's feistiness, I think, because growing up, Buji was made fun of a lot and picked on, and Kip was always there to defend him, and really, throughout his life there to take care of him. So I think it's a combination of what his parents went through, which, of course, like so many of you, didn't know any of these stories until decades later because our parents would not talk about it. And so, the more and more that he learned, the more he became committed to, a) doing what he could to make sure that this would not happen again, constitutionally, and also to release support towards our parents who were incarcerated, who had lived with the burden and the pain of what had happened to them. That's all.

AT: Thank you.

STS: I also wanted to add a little bit, because I think... and I appreciate so much what Barb just said, because one of the things that made Kip such an effective legislator is that, as I said earlier, people loved him, people gravitated to him. He was, he was beloved by not just my caucus, the Democratic caucus, he was beloved in the Republican caucus. He was as much a deeply cherished, feminist friend to the women of the legislature as much as he was a man's man for the men in the legislature. And believe me, that is still a very male sort of oriented institution, a male dominated institution. And Kip, I think because he was so beloved, and he -- it was just a natural part of his personality, to help educate people, when he started sharing his family story to the legislators with whom he worked, they began to understand where his passions originated, why was he so committed to lifting up the underdog? It was because of his family's experience, it was because of what he saw happening to his brother. It's why he cared so deeply about children who were vulnerable. And the thing that was, I think, endearing -- and I am going to use that word -- to both the men and the women of the legislators was when this person, who everyone not only liked but respected, they deepened their respect for him because he made himself vulnerable by sharing the truth about what happened to him and his family. And so, when he talked about what happened to his family, when he talked about the conditions that were not made available to his family, his parents and his brother, the other legislators could understand in a much deeper way, why this was wrong and why shouldn't Kip, who was as red, white and blue as any of them, why should his family have had to suffer the consequences? And so I think that that was part of his effectiveness is by not browbeating people or standing on the moral ground, although he could do that, but he always did that in a very effective way. But he shared his vulnerability and his story in such a way that other legislators could relate. And because they considered Kip his friend, they didn't want to let their friend down.

AT: Thank you very much for that insight. It's very interesting to see how that works within legislation and how him being such a friend to everybody was so impactful in his activism as well.

<Begin Segment 5>

AT: So, you mentioned how his history and his family's experiences during World War II was so impactful on his activism, and anyone can speak on this, but Kip advocated for this yearly Executive Order 9066 Day of Remembrance in the state legislature in Olympia. And this event still continues on today, every year on February 19th. And so, how was Kip able to gain this buy in on this event occurring during this busy legislative agenda? And how was this important to Kip and like, how does this importance serve into today? And again, anyone can speak on this.

STS: You want me to start? And then I would love to have all of the JACL leaders kind of step in and speak because this event wouldn't take place without JACL. So I will certainly say that. As I said, Kip introduced the first resolution to recognize the Day of Remembrance in 1997. This was in his, let's see, I think this was his second term of office because he was originally elected in '93 if I have my figures, my dates correct. And then so, in 1997, he offered the very first resolution. A resolution, just by, for your information, is a commemoration, it's a memorial, it's an opportunity to share information and to educate the broader public about whatever it might be. And then, of course, in this case, it was the Day of Remembrance, and I already spoke to how it was the lead in to his being able to educate people for the need to create a Civil Liberties Public Education Fund. Kip was also, I mentioned, he was a mentor to me. My first year in office was 1999. And so in 1999, he asked me -- and this was so Kip -- he wanted to have other people sort of share leadership and share in sort of the opportunity. So I became the prime sponsor in 1999, and he was the secondary sponsor. And then in 2000, since we do the biannual things, our legislature works in a biannual fashion, meaning two year cycles, Kip became the 2000 sponsor of the Day of Remembrance resolution. Well, this is important because beginning in 1999, the state of Washington has never not had -- shouldn't use two negatives, sorry -- let's say it this way. Since 1999, there has been a continuous resolution recognizing the Day of Remembrance in the Washington State House of Representatives. And I would suspect that in all of the states, there is no other state in the country that has had a continuous recognition of the day that the President of the United States signed the Executive Order 9066. Part of the reason that, again, that Kip was able to do this was, fortuitously, the end of the '90s and the early 2000s, as I said, we were still in a tie. And so there was very little that actually made it to the floor of the House of Representatives, honestly, because you would have to go through the labyrinth of committees, and they were set up just like a house with a tie. So very little was coming to the floor. And so we had the luxury, if you will, of the time and the opportunity to do something like this where, because of Kip's leadership, he was getting buy in from both Republicans and Democrats to take this time to acknowledge. That becomes very important as we move into the last few years of Kip's service in the legislature because I think the House tilted very slightly in favor of Democrats in his last couple of years. It was still so tight that we didn't get a lot of legislation to the floor. And so we were able to recognize those last two years of his service, and then 2003, Kip's first year out of the legislature, the person who succeeded him, I had asked him to carry this legislation. We made the Day of Remembrance a state recognized day, which means that in the state of Washington, there are very few dates that are recognized by the state. This is not a paid holiday, but it is a state recognized day, which means that of the very few times when we actually offer up resolutions on the floor of the House, the Day of Remembrance is one because it is a state recognized day. And that is, again, in large part to Kip's ability to see far beyond the immediate needs and his incomparable ability to develop relationships on both sides of the aisle. And I would love to hear from the JACL people what that has meant to our community because that's where I think the real impact is had.

AM: What I love about Kip was, his strategic thinking. So he always had a chuckle and he always had a smile, but he also always knew what his goals were, how long they would take, and how we would implement them. And I really respected that, and I asked him for advice many times, and he was really a good mentor. I don't tend to think strategically like that, but to hear him, plan, and think ahead and know exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it, I really respected that. As an example, when he became JACL president, he said, "First of all, just have one goal for the year, and bring people with you to the board so that you can implement it." And that's the advice that he gave me, and it was very good advice.

BT: I'd like to add about Kip's impact with the Day of Remembrance, and I think that in our community, it's been very strong, and it's allowed different groups to really come together. For example, the Nisei Vets and JACL share in the Day of Remembrance. And these are not opposite groups, but we've had differences from time to time. But we all see the common good in the Day of Remembrance, and we're now, I think we're very good partners with Nisei Vets. I think that overall, especially these days when we're so polarized by party lines, that Day of Remembrance is a time to come together. And I'm -- Sharon Tomiko, you do such a wonderful job of securing bipartisan support for the annual resolution and getting speakers from both sides to speak to the resolution and remembrance of Executive Order 9066. And in fact, some of the... I've attended most of the Day of Remembrances, some of the most moving speeches have been from Republican speakers, for example. And I remember one from the representative from Yakima Valley, who spoke very eloquently about the personal part of him growing up and seeing his schoolmates taken away. And I think to me, that's the importance of Day of Remembrance, is in retelling the stories. Sharon Tomiko, when you talk about... when you give your speech, and you tell about the personal impact on your family, that's really a reminder for all legislators. When these type of actions happen, it's more than just something that you read in a headline, it has impact on real people and real families, and it can be very traumatic and lasting forever. And to have a bipartisan acknowledgement of this, and taking time so people listen and not just vote, I think it has an impact on our legislators of all parties. So I really am, again, grateful to Kip and Sharon, for you, for your continuance to this program. So it has a big impact.

AT: Yeah, thank you. Janice, did you have anything to say on that?

JD: Everybody said -- shared such great reflections. I just wanted to say that I think as a young person growing up, I didn't know what EO 9066 was, I didn't know the significance of February 19th. And I think my children take that for granted, we take that for granted now. Like oh, yes, of course February 19th, EO 66, we all know what that is. But there was a time not that long ago, until I took my own Asian American Studies class, that I knew what that was. And now because of the public education fund, because of Day of Remembrance, we talk about that. There's -- every newspaper has an article about Day of Remembrance on February 19th. We actually, you know, I talk to people that aren't Japanese or aren't Asian, they know what EO 9066 was, and they know what incarceration was, they're still shocked that, that someone is close to, like, my parents were incarcerated, they're still shocked by that. But now we can teach ourselves that it's not inaccessible. It's more commonly spoken of, it's in the mainstream that at least in this, at least in Washington state, it's in the mainstream that we talk about it, that newspapers talk about it. And we know the significance and the importance of that day and what happened.

AT: Yeah, thank you so much.

<Begin Segment 6>

AT: If anyone doesn't have anything else to say on that, �I know, a lot of you know him just through JACL in general and he did a lot while he was president. What would you say were some of his, just in general, his major accomplishments? I know he's done so much throughout the years. But just from your own recollections and working with him, what was it like to work with him? What did maybe you both accomplished? What did he accomplish? And what was it like, just to see him as a leader in that environment? Again, whoever can start.

JD: Okay, well, I'll start. So I was really young when I joined JACL and I really looked up to Kip because he was Executive Director of Seattle Rape Relief, I believe, and I think he was vice president of the chapter. So he wasn't president yet, but he was a vice president. And I just remember thinking, gosh, I want to be like Kip, I want to be like Al, I want to be like Naomi. I mean, there's all these really powerful Asian Americans on the board and I just wanted to be like them. And I just remember Kip always just being super positive, and he didn't treat me any differently. Like, I was twenty-four and he was -- I don't know how old he was, but older than that, and he didn't treat me like, oh, you don't know anything, you're only twenty-four, you don't know what you're talking about. And I didn't really know what I was talking about, but I still... and I was a little scared to speak up. But I never forgot that feeling from Kip, that we were all equals in that room, we were all board members, even the young ones, and just really feeling included and felt like a part of community. And I don't remember like specific things because that was a long time ago, but I just remember how I felt, that I could be like him, I could be a leader, I could do things through JACL, I could do things in my career. And I've helped him on his, one of his campaigns. And I like, of course, you're included, and we we're all in this together. And I just felt that, that I was his equal, even though he was already such an accomplished leader.

AM: So I moved to Seattle in 1974 and, at the time, the JACL board was dominated by Nisei men. And I was "allowed" to do the scholarship committee but not much more. And so I really dropped out of JACL for a good ten years and didn't come back until, gee, '98, somewhere around there. And Kip and Janice, you were president during those times when I was gone. But when I came back, it really was the beginning of the shift to Sansei and even Yonsei leadership. And I think, again, we were one of the first chapters nationally to really move that leadership to the next generations. And it wasn't easy. There's still a lot of resistance and it was difficult to have a voice. But our chapter was really able to do that. And I think Kip's leadership really helped institute that inclusiveness that you talked about, Janice so...

AT: Yeah, thank you, I think, I mean, it's really important to understand how he made everyone feel because that seems to be something that was so instrumental in his activism and just including people, as you guys have said, and just getting people on board with working with him and sharing that leadership, I guess.

STS: Actually, and I want to just hop on there too, because one of his projects, he had many projects, but he was the visionary behind not only creating the Japanese Community and Cultural Center of Washington State -- this was his baby -- but he was also the visionary behind creating the Asian Community Leadership Foundation. I think it's really important for me to raise those two ideas in this context because, as Janice and Akemi were talking, one of the things that I wanted to make sure was not lost is Kip was very, very focused on wanting to make sure that Nikkei children do not lose the sense of their cultural identity. That was very important to him, especially as we see so many more mixed race children, it's important to be able to have a place to go and I think that that goes too to why he was so supportive of the Wing Luke and got a significant capital infusion of cash to create a permanent home for the Wing Luke, is that there... I guess three things that are very important here. One is the importance of one's cultural identity and wanting to make sure that for Nikkei children, there was someplace like that, but also, two, the thing that was very important is that his belief in cross cultural communications and support, that is something I think that the Wing Luke has been sort of nationally and internationally recognized, is recognizing how does our cultural identity as Asian Pacific Americans, both specifically within one culture, or ethnic group, spread across other cultural and racial groups. But third, it is about focusing on the next generation. He was so laser focused on that next generation and everything that he did, whether it was through his work as a professional social worker and making sure that children had the optimum conditions in which, not just to survive, that was key, but to thrive, that was Kip. And he understood that children, because of their circumstances, or the circumstances of their parents and families, didn't all have equal access to the same basis. And so he committed his professional life to making sure that there was equity of opportunities and conditions for all children so that there would not be another [inaudible] that didn't have the resources and the supports that were necessary. But he also took a look at our own community and said, where are the opportunities for our young people to get engaged in community service, he really believed in that notion of community service. And so creating the Asian Community Leadership Foundation was really a way for him to create a channel for young Asian Pacific community people who had not had an opportunity to engage in our community organizations, to get to know our community organizations and to develop the leadership skills. Because I think one of the things he worried about was, what happens when the generation of Sansei started to retire as we are right now? Will there be a [inaudible] of Yonsei and Gosei and mixed race children and mixed generation children to step in and to sustain the community institutions that our parents and our grandparents built? Will there be an Asian Pacific American community? And so his understanding of needing to provide opportunities for young people to experience and develop skills was really the, I think, the vision behind Asian Community Leadership Foundation, as well as with -- and maybe Akemi can talk a little bit more about the Asian Pacific American civic engagement -- but it used to be a different acronym, but it's the same... it used to be the same acronym but different words...

AM: Yeah, for equality.

STS: APACE, to give students or, excuse me, young people the opportunity to dip their toes into the political waters because let's face it, until very recently, our Asian Pacific American community still stayed very far away from politics. And he wanted to make sure that he was creating opportunities. And so, Kip's style of lifting up leaders and lifting up leadership opportunities extended from elected leaders in the legislature to young people who might need an on ramp into community engagement. And so I just wanted to add that, his sort of real instrumental role and recognizing that we have a responsibility to help lift up our youth.

<Begin Segment 7>

AM: I'd like to talk about ACLF. I was one of the founding board members and I served for about, I think, twelve years, that seems to be my duration. That I led some focus groups at the University of Washington with current students, just seeing and taking the temperature of what would be interesting to them, what would appeal to them so that they would participate. The whole basis of ACLF is community based leadership. There were other Asian American leadership programs, but they were corporate, or they were very white in their orientation. He wanted to be Asian American and community based leadership. So, JACL actually benefited from that, we had a whole crop of JACL presidents that came out of ACLF. So I'd say, seven or eight, maybe even more. But as we were making that transition from Sansei -- from Nisei to Yonsei leadership, the people coming out of the ACLF and graduating from that program became our presidents. So Tatsuo, Kyle, just a whole bunch, Don. There were just many, many leaders of the Seattle chapter JACL that came from ACLF. One of the things that Kip really didn't want to lose with all the experiences the Sansei had, that they had to learn the hard way just through experience, through just getting knocked around, he wanted to save the next generation some of those hard lessons and that's one of the reasons why he created ACLF. We're going to do ACLF 102, or 201, to do political leadership, but we started with community based leadership for most of the social services. That's sort of where we began. And we talked a lot later on about having a 201, taking the graduates and then helping them be political, because after all, everything's political. So yeah, and by the way, the JACL Seattle chapter gave some of the seed money to start that first cohort group.

BL: And I just wanted to... oh, I'm sorry.

JD: I just, one more thing on ACLF. I just remember Kip pitching the board at one of our board meetings for his idea for $10,000 to seed ACLF, so many, many years ago. And he shared his concern about the future of our community and the need to have a vehicle to grow new leadership and nurture that leadership for the next generation.

BL: Yeah, I just wanted to underscore what you've said, I mean, ACLF was based on building strength in the community, making the network stronger between generations across different API groups. And I think, just as, maybe the most important was the mentoring aspect. It was set up that way so that each new ACLF member was assigned a mentor who was probably older and doing something in the community that was of interest to the person in the new class, and those are things that he practiced, those are values of his. And Sharon, you've talked a lot about it. He was very much a big picture guy. He depended on people to fill in a lot of the little details, but he had great vision and great ideas, and really would seek out help and support from people who were good with details. Yeah, that's sort of who he was as a leader. He was not a detail person, which is why I think we got along because I'm very much a detail oriented person, or at least in my younger days, I was. [Laughs] You get older and you start forgetting things. Yeah.

AM: Part of that community strengthening was taking each ACLF cohort to Bush. It was almost a requirement. You had to go to Bush after our training sessions. And again, they would go to Bush and they would meet people and yeah, just built community. And we all know, JACL, the real decisions were always made after the meetings at Bush.

BT: And still are. [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 8>

BT: I just wanted to go back, when Sharon started, she mentioned Kip's vision for the JCCCW, the Japanese Culture Community Center of Washington, and I think this was an example of him seeing the big picture. And I kind of laugh because this was JACL's third effort, actually. And it was, the third effort was a community effort. And I'm not trying to say it's JACL, but there were so many JACL people involved with that, and Kip and Ron Mamiya were prime at that, and Kip, that was his main focus, let's get a cultural community center for Japanese Americans and Japanese people in the state of Washington. And the reason I kind of smile or laugh is because he knew the big picture, but he also had some specific ideas in mind that he always pushed forward. The two that I remember most is that he wanted to have it at Kubota Gardens, and it had to have a basketball. And he was so into that. And he would manage to slip in something at every point that he could. If we were talking about, well, we want to have an auditorium, and he would say, "Oh, yeah, and if we have an auditorium, we could have push back stands so we could put the basketball court in there." "No, we're not having a basketball court, Kip." He goes, "Well, just keep that on the burner, just in case, we might get funding." As it turned out, we did not go to Kubota Gardens, we don't have a basketball court. However, that did not diminish Kip's commitment. And I still remember when he -- not in the legislature anymore, but he would make countless trips down to Olympia to kind of, I don't know if lobby is the right word, if that's, who's going to see this later, but he used his connections to make sure that JCCCW got a substantial grant from the state to support that activity. And that was all part of what's the big picture here. It's not the basketball court, it's not Kubota Gardens, it's establishing a cultural center and community center for Japanese Americans, and that happened.

AM: There's something about basketball, though, and Japanese Americans. So I'm from Denver, Colorado, and the guys that I went to high school with are still playing basketball every Friday night at the Buddhist church. So... and we're in our seventies, but it speaks to relationships and what keeps people together.

BL: But when his dad was an adult, he was very, there were, there was an Asian basketball league on the West Coast, and his dad was very much involved and had sponsored a Tokuda Drugstore basketball team.

AM: Right.

BL: And Kip had this very fancy satin jacket with "Tokuda Drugs" on the back and wore that very proudly. And I think that that was part of it. Of course, he loved playing basketball, but that is a part of our history. And I think it's documented somewhere because his dad was very, very proud of that team.

STS: That and bowling.

AM: Oh, yes.

BL: Bowling. Yeah, forgot about bowling.

STS: [Laughs] That used to be the other hangout. But I think when Akemi was mentioning the decisions being made at the Bush Garden, I think that that was another illustration of exemplifying, how do you build community? And it's not just in the meetings, it's the socializing, it's building the authentic relationships. And that's where I think... I think that's where Kip's magic really kind of unfolded. Because when he was in a meeting, he was -- not that he wasn't goofy in a meeting, too, but when he was in a meeting, he was about the business at hand, right? And what was on the agenda and what have you. But it was afterwards, after hours, if you will, that the goofy side of him would come forward. And he'd spent half the time laughing at jokes that he was telling about himself. And if that's not part of what made him so endearing to people across the board, somebody who was big enough and confident enough in himself to poke fun of himself in public, I don't know what it is. I remember when I first got to the legislature, Janice talked about how he was such a mentor, and certainly for me, he was that and then some, as somebody who was coming in to the legislature, you know, that can be a kind of an overwhelming and intimidating place to be, especially for any person of color, and especially for a woman of color. And I was always so glad that I had the equivalent of a big brother in the legislature, somebody that I knew pretty well, I mean, I had also been part of his campaign. And can remember, Barb, this when we were going to do that karaoke event at the event... I can't remember the name. It was...

BL: West Seattle?

STS: No, it was the Family Association down in the ID. It's the building...

BL: Oh, right, right, the Ing Family Association.

STS: The Ing Family Association. And we ended up... there was going to be a karaoke contest, and we ended up putting money in the pot to have Kip not sing. [Laughs] I think that was Kip's idea, actually. But I digress. When I first got to the legislature, that was that was kind of the relationship I had with Kip, right. It was a very teasing, warm, loving, exchange, like with a brother and sister where we're always like, at each other. So I remember, late at night, business was concluded, my office and his office were on the same corridor, and I was walking down the corridor to do, I don't know what. He was in his office chatting with another male member and they were enjoying a beer together. This was back when you could have beer in your offices after hours. And he saw me walk by and he said, "Hey, why don't you go get me a beer?" And I had already walked past the open door. So I had to walk backwards. And I, of course, I knew that this other member was in his office. And so I gave him the hand signal to say, yeah, I don't think I'm doing that. And after that, he just started cracking up. And that was the entree for me to have a very good relationship then with the other member who was in his office. When he saw that, how Kip and I would interact with one another, then this other member, senior member, felt comfortable having a similar kind of relationship with me. And in our state capitol -- and I suspect this is a true in state capitol across the nation -- everything revolves around the quality of that personal relationship that the members have with one another. And so Kip, in his way, opened so many doors for me, just by allowing people to see the nature of the relationship he and I had together, which was very comfortable and very informal. And I will always, always remember that because as soon as I came back and gave him the signal, he just kind of started chuckling in that way that he chuckled, that laugh that he has and then he says, oh, something like "Oh, I guess she showed me," or something like that. But that was Kip, that was Kip.

AT: Thank you very much for that. He just seems like such an inspiring person without really having to go out of his way to be like that. Just seems part of his personality, which is very respect, like I respect that very much in someone who's such a leader in the community.

<Begin Segment 9>

AT: And I know we're getting close to an hour, but I also really want to touch on his LGBTQ advocacy because he was such, very intersectional with his activism. And so he, during his time in JACL, he really pushed for that. And much of his advocacy started in the '90s as well as with the API community and other communities when the referendum 74 campaign. So I was just wondering if anyone could maybe talk on his activism within that, and maybe if, Bill, if you'd like to touch on that first, and then if anyone else would like to start after that?

BT: Yeah, thanks, Ana. I'm not even... I didn't know Kip in the '90s. I've only read about some of the things that he did. And I remember him telling me how that was very important to him, but I'm not sure how it started. And I remember when I spoke at the 2002 national convention against a JACL resolution that would condemn or that -- anyway, the Boy Scouts were banning gay members, �and Arlene Oki told me to speak against it, and I did. And then basically, I came out on the floor of the national convention. And I remember Arlene saying, "I can't wait to tell Kip. Kip will be so excited that you did this." [Laughs] And that's when I first really became aware that he was a big advocate. And it came about with the R-74 campaign, which was a big campaign to all for freedom of marriage in the state of Washington. And he was a really big advocate. And I remember that he got me and Don Regal to cosign an article that he wrote that appeared in the Seattle Times endorsing the Freedom to Marry Act, and Bob reminded me a couple of days ago, that he did a video, an ad, publicized ad for the campaign in support of R-74 Freedom to Marry. And in this short video, how he, he related his experiences as a Japanese American, and what happened to his family, and why any type of discrimination is wrong, and everybody should have the freedom to marry. And he was a just a very vocal and active advocate. Personally, though, he, it was, it was all true. He's so personal. And I remember when my partner and I were going to get married, and he not so subtlety came up and said, "Oh, by the way, I have a license to marry people." And I was like, thrilled. I said, "Kip, I hope you can officiate our marriage." And he, I could see that he was just he was really happy to do this. And we met maybe six weeks before our wedding, and Kip was just so enthused, and it was like, "Gosh, Kip, you're more excited than I am." And he was saying, "Yeah, we could do this and we can do this. And what do you want? How do you want this to go about? I can do whatever you want." And so it was like, it was just going to be very exciting. And I think that was just heartbreaking for me because that's, unfortunately he passed away about four weeks before we were married. But I just hold dear that memory of Kip potentially being part of my life and my husband's life in such an intimate way that I would, I just never forget.

AT: Yes, definitely. Thank you for that, Bill. Janice, I know you worked, I think, with JACL in the '90s, is that correct? And so I was just wondering if maybe you had any insight to his activism within the LGBTQ community.

JD: It's been so long. I can't -- I'm sorry, I can't, I can't recall anything specific. Yeah, but I definitely remember, I mean, Kip, yeah, very values driven and, and really not caring. Just about... I mean, you say he's great with relationships, but also really, really holds true to his values. And even if there were challenges at national -- and every two years, we have a national convention. And I know, we were still in 1998 working on marriage equality, even at that time, and so I've no doubt that he was the forefront proposing that before we got to marriage equality again in 1988. So, yeah.

AT: Yeah, thank you.

<Begin Segment 10>

AT: I think it's just beautiful saying how much he can accomplish things on like, the more broad level, but also his relationships with individuals like Bill and, yeah, just, he seems someone very personable within his activism as well.

STS: Could I amplify what Janice was saying about him being a values driven person? I think in large part, again, one thing that we haven't really touched upon is that he grew up in the central area. And the central area in which he was raised was a very, very diverse neighborhood community. And it was racially diverse, it was religiously diverse. That's where you had the center of the Jewish community at one time, as well as that's where you have Japantown. So there were a lot of Buddhist temples in that area, as well as Christian. And so it was -- not only being the son of his parents, and the brother of his brother, as well as the brother of his sisters, but it was also being the child of the central area at a very, very sort of critical time in U.S. history during the Civil Rights Movement. And so, I guess, I don't know, and maybe Barb knows whether or not there was a specific family or friend or relationship or situation that exposed him to the challenges of the LGBTQ community early on in his life. But what I can say is what Janice said is absolutely key. When we put together -- when he put together the Civil Liberties Public Education Fund, it was not to focus in on the Japanese American community and the Japanese American experience, exclusively. If you look at the legislation, it is about using that as a way to understand other similar experiences around the affronts and the challenges and the actual attacks on civil liberties period. So he was a committed warrior for civil liberties. And it was sparked largely by the family experience and the community experience. But his focus was far more focused on the broader notion of every person is endowed with an inalienable right to be who they are, and have the freedom, and that's the role of government. And so, I mean, I think it's important that we not confine Kip to just being a Japanese American activist, because he was so much more than that. And it is based in the value system that Janice talked about.

AT: Yeah, thank you so much. I'm not sure, Barb, if you had anything to add on to that or...

BL: No, I mean, I agree with what Sharon was saying. He, it was a very broad stroke that he painted in everything that he did, and very much was bothered both on the larger social scale to things that would happen to people that he knew, or even people that he didn't know. If they were treated disrespectfully, if they were not appreciated or valued for what they can bring, and what they can share, that always was really, really upsetting to him to see that happen. But I think in his work in the community, he was able to take it beyond kind of the personal or even the familial and really affect our community, the Seattle community, people in the state, and that was kind of the big picture. I find it just really interesting when I think about his life, and how much he did, it's almost like somebody who is like, I've got to get these things done, time is of the essence, because that's sort of how he worked. And he'd be working on, like, many projects at once. And so when he, when he passed away, it's like, wow, he really did a lot in in his lifetime. And I was really kind of... when I started kind of looking back and taking stock, I was really impressed. I guess, I would say, by how much he was able to achieve, and the way that he did it. I'm not that kind of person, I can't imagine the energy, the devotion, the commitment, the love that he put into this every day, even after he retired, which was not a real retirement, it didn't last very long.

AT: Yeah, thank you so much.

<Begin Segment 11>

AT: And I know that we're getting close to an hour, we might be past an hour, I'm really not sure. But I do want to like, open the floor for anyone to mention anything or even just a certain memory, and just talk about anything that you think is important to contribute to Kip's legacy. Yeah, Bill, if you'd like to start.

BT: Yeah, thanks. One thing that's been running through my mind, as everybody was talking, is one thing I will always remember about Kip is that he made you feel important and appreciated. And he always gave you credit. And you always felt comfortable talking with him. And I realized this as a gift of his because after his death, there was a number of us who got together, I think it was at the cultural center, it may have been at, I forgot where it was at. But we were all sitting around talking. And it dawned upon me, every single person was saying the same thing, is that Kip made them individually feel important. And I still think that that's one of his biggest gifts and skills that he had.

BL: Bill, what I want to say about that is that you can think of it as a skill, but being the person that was home when he came home from these meetings, he would come home and say, oh my gosh, I was meeting with so and so, and he would always have these things to say about how amazing these people were. And I think that he really did appreciate certainly all of you and your skills and your gifts. ACLF was a good example. He'd say, oh my gosh, you won't, you will never believe this amazing class that has just come in. And it seemed like he was constantly in awe of everyone that he was working with. And so I mean, I just think... and this happened like, throughout the time that I knew him, he was always like so and so this, so and so that, and it's like, I can't believe... and it was just, I don't know, part of the way that he saw the world or saw people. I'm not sure that I can even describe it, but it, that's sort of the way he was. He was in awe of all of you and all the people he worked with.

AM: I have a story to share about how open and nonjudgmental he could be. So he was working on a campaign and his opponent's literature had a picture of his mother on it. And he went to his mom and he said, "You're certainly welcome to support anybody that you want. I just would have liked to have known that you were supporting this person." And she said, "Well, I'm not supporting that person, it was part of a stock photograph that was used." and the opponent didn't know that was Kip's mom. So anyway, he didn't get mad at her and he didn't get furious or anything like that. He just said, "Well, Mom has a right, I guess I'm gonna go ask her." So that really does show his personality.

AT: Well, I can't say I would have done that. I probably would have, I probably would have said something to my mom. [Laughs] Thank you guys for those stories. And, again, if there's anything before we end, I just want to make sure that everyone has a chance to talk about him and just commemorate his whole legacy. I mean, I'm just so honored to be able to talk to everyone about him because I didn't personally know him at all, but I think my family recognized his name when I mentioned that I would be talking about him today. And so he's touched so many people in Seattle and beyond, especially within the Japanese American community. But as we've talked about already, just he was so, he advocated for everyone. And so I'm glad we've been able to touch on these different topics. But yeah, if anyone has anything else to add, please feel free.

STS: I don't know that I have something to add, per se. Let me just say, though, that I'm sorry that we couldn't get more of the funny anecdotes about Kip on this recording. There's just so much to say in answer to all of your questions. But I hope that in the end, what people will think about when they think about Kip is his humility, first and foremost, his passion for youth, for the community, his pride in his community, in his family, in his wife and his daughters, his commitment to leaving this place better than it was in his lifetime.

But the thing that I think is almost impossible, unless we do go back to the Bush Garden at some point in the future with a roving camera, is all of the funny stories about Kip. I mean, Barb described him as being not detail oriented, and that's absolutely true. But the way that that would manifest itself is not only in him being the big picture seer, and then being able to surround himself with all of the right people who have the detail orientation and have the skills to be able then to execute on the big picture. He's what I would call as the -- a charismatic leader. But because of his own inability to focus in on the details, which is not a -- I'm not going to say that that's a problem because he was focused on the big things. But it did mean that he put himself in really funny situations which you can call as being absent minded or just completely not paying attention. The stories of him insisting that his cars were being stolen or that other things were happening. I think one time it had something to do with his keys in the office in Olympia. Seems to me I remember something else about a wallet that he was sure was stolen. So these are the things...

BL: All mishaps.

STS: Exactly. [Laughs] And those are the things that he would, even afterwards, what always astonished me was he would insist that his story was true. Somehow somebody stole the car, and it just got moved. Or the wallet was, who knows, the keys I think were never found. But it was part of what made him so real and so approachable, was that he was, even while swearing that it was true, he was able to laugh at it. And we would all kind of roll our eyes and say, well, that's Kip. But it's what made him such a real person and made him so approachable. And I don't think people are going to get that out of this recording, necessarily, but maybe we can do something else at some future time. Off record, just for the family.

BL: That would be cool.

AM: I'm coming. I don't care where I am. I'm coming.

BL: Yeah. And the kids certainly have stories of their own for sure.

AT: Well, thank you guys all so much for being a part of this and just talking about him and especially what he's done for pretty much all the communities. He wasn't, he was not focused on just one. But yeah, thank you guys so much for being here. And I think with that, we will end the recording.