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BT: Yeah, Elaine, that's a really good question. And it had me thinking, as Ann was touching on some of the issues that I was thinking about, is I think one thing that was core to Elaine is just compassion. And thinking about when she grew up and she was, her family was in Detroit, solely because they went from the camp, incarceration camp, and could get freedom by going to Detroit or a Midwest city. And then, in the late '40s, there were terrible race riots in Detroit, and later in the '60s were race riots. And I think that she... it was this background of her family and areas where she was growing up that instilled a real compassion toward understanding issues of prejudice and biases that need to be fought against. And it's more than that. It's like, it dawned upon me, the core of Elaine was compassion. And that's why when she went into education for special ed, she developed that compassion for students. And one thing she always, the special ed teachers said is that, "Students learn best when their teachers look like them." Okay. And that's why, when she retired, she used some of her savings and endowed a scholarship. We have in our chapter, the Elaine Reiko Akagi Scholarship, which is aimed for people of color going into special education. That's her compassion. And one thing that was talked about is Elaine loved animals. She was a really big dog lover and cat lover. And this is her heart. And she even took in a feral cat, which, after she passed away, and some of us were cleaning up her house, I don't know if we ever found that cat, but we found a lot of evidence of it. But Elaine took this cat in. This is the compassion, this is who Elaine was. So when you're asking about her thoughts of incarceration, civil rights, human rights, I think it all goes back to: she had compassion.

AO: Didn't Elaine belong to an animal rights organization?

BT: Yeah, she was big with the Seattle Humane Society.

AO: And I didn't know all of her other involvements until recently, but she,  JACL was not only, her only civic involvement, she was involved with many other committees.

BT: She was involved with a lot of committees with the Washington Education Association.

AO: There was another group, but I was surprised, I don't know where she found the time to...

BT: She was also on the board for the Washington State School for the Blind and Deaf, and I don't think -- in Vancouver, and I don't think a lot of us knew that. She had a lot of outside activities.

AO: She must have been attending a meeting every night. [Laughs]

KY: Yeah, I think her, her leadership style, if it were compared to, say, like a family structure, wasn't so much like parental, but like a sister. I mean, in terms of, so even with JACL being highly, oh, gosh, sexist, and back when, she was never confrontational about it. But she let her friends know when situations made her feel uncomfortable. I mean, JACL nationally is notorious for like their shindigs and parties and that kind of thing. And she never had to say anything directly to an individual in terms of, "I don't like what you're doing," but in her friends knowing what made her feel uncomfortable, or situations that she... they looked out for her just like they would a sister, you wouldn't treat a sister like that. And so even among the most unconsciously sexist members of the organization or whatever, they still respect her because she was like a sister. And that's part of leadership, too, is that you treat people who you consider like family a little bit differently than if they're just someone you just have a temporary brush with and you don't ever have to deal with them again, whether you agree with them or disagree with them. But that was Elaine. I mean, she's like a sister in terms of you want to do things for her because she asked. You trust her, you respect her. And you know that she's not going to turn around and there's no ulterior motive. Whatever she's up to, that's what she's up to.

AO: Well, Karen, do you feel that Elaine's presence in the national organization changed the national organization's image of the Seattle JACL as a radical chapter? Because of the way she was kind of listening to all sides and being very... she wasn't considered a radical like some of the people in our chapter. I remember they used to call our chapter the "radical chapter." But that changed after Elaine and Bill got involved.

KY: Well just like, even on a political spectrum, if you feel you have an extreme out there, and then you have someone who, Elaine is more centric, then even the extremity doesn't seem so extreme [Laughs]. I think that's the effect that she had, right? In terms of...

AO: But that was a major change in perception of the Seattle JACL.

KY: Oh, yeah. The rogue, the rogue chapter. The... I can't remember. Had a couple of tags for the Seattle chapter.

BT: "Rabble Rousers."

KY: Yes, that's it. The "Rabble Rousers." That's okay. I mean, that's the whole part of revolution, right? In order to have change, something's got to be different. [Laughs]

AL: Well they say, if you get people upset, and talking, then you're doing something right. So, that was good.

BT: We were always right. [Laughs]

AL: I mean, we weren't afraid to, like, come out and... I was always proud of that. Having that tag that we were the... I mean, there's a lot of good chapters, but geographically, we're way up here and, I mean, we're near California. But we just made it, put our stamp on things, and that's why I think all these people that I grew up with like Chuck Kato and Don Kazama, I mean, I'm just I can't remember everybody, but just these amazing people. I just found like an old picture of... because I was connecting with Frank Abe, because he wanted this picture of my dad and, and I found this one with him. And I think it was, oh, Roger Shimizu and some other... I think it was another  JACL person, I can't remember his name, but they were at a party at my dad's and mom's house and how... because that's kind of how I grew up. I grew up with a lot of parents that were very social, and they're very community minded. And so, I think, I already kind of had that built into me. And then when I got involved in JACL and kind of progressed in my involvement and then got connected with Elaine... I think she was like an older sister to me, I really do. That's probably why I trusted her. And I always wanted --  I say it occasionally because I have older cousins, and they're like my older sisters. And so I think Elaine was that too, my community work especially.

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