Densho Digital Repository - In Memory of Tatsuo Nakata Interview (Densho ID: ddr-sjacl-2-32-12)

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BN: Something I wanted to follow up on with that is, it seems like Tatsuo cared deeply for solidarity as well as all your work on the Civil Rights Committee shows that, was this a progressive ideal for the chapter at the time? Or was this something that was pretty widely accepted here in the Seattle JACL?

AM: So you're asking whether it was unique to Seattle's JACL, the solidarity?

BS: Mainly, I was wondering if Tatsuo's ideas on solidarity were pretty widely accepted. And was, it did you face backlash and trying to do anything implementing solidarity work, or was it pretty widely accepted?

AM: I can just speak to a little bit of that. I don't think that anyone ever said no, we don't want to partner with other groups, or, no we don't want to... you know. But I think that there is a certain kind of insular characteristic to the community that probably came with immigration and the backlash of, you know, it was probably a defense mechanism. But I remember having conversations with him and some of our other friends during the Secret Hapa Society, which was evenings, so we would get together at the Bush and have drinks. And we were all mixed. And we would say, "When are they going to stop introducing us as "Tatsuo Nakata, the hapa Yonsei?" Like, when is it going to be enough just to be part of the group? Why do we have to have this, you know, pre status on there that were mixed? So I think it was much more subtle, the ways in which the community was separating out, like siloing different kinds of people. But it was never... I don't even know if it was something that was articulated, it was probably just because of the way the community had protected itself in the past. And then, you know, it slowly gets unpeeled, you know, layer by layer as time goes on.

BT: Yeah, Brent, I think that, when I think about your question, I think, in a larger sense, we, Seattle JACL has been lucky that we've had such visionary leaders that have been able to involve us in big picture items and solidarity with other communities. And I think that with Joy and Tatsuo at that time with 9/11, and the, that type of solidarity with those communities was easy for the JACL chapter here to align itself with that, because you can see the clear correlations between anti-Arab, anti-Muslim discrimination and that, that we suffered during World War II. I think where Tatsuo, kind of like, expanded our thought, was to say, you know, it's beyond this. It starts with micro aggressions and the type of marketing that's going on. And I say this because I remember one of the things that came up on the news and in the papers was a picture of Tatsuo with a group of people demonstrating outside of Abercrombie and Fitch, because they had displayed, all of a sudden they had a line of t-shirts that carried, just stereotypes. It wasn't, it was derogatory, but it was just racial stereotyping just being continued. And I think for a lot of older members, it was probably kind of like, well, what's the big deal? This has been happening for a long time, you know. But I think for, it woke us because it was kind of like, wait, this is how things start, you know, and I was glad that the Tatsuo brought this to the attention because it made everybody aware of the subtle roots of racism and discrimination. And this is where it has to stop. And I think that's the part that I don't want to say backlash or pushback, but at least it spread an awareness of these issues to the older generation.

AM: Another really unique thing about Seattle and its Asian American community was the leadership of Bob Santos and the Gang of Four. So I think we have a long history of coalition-building within Seattle. And before I was president of the chapter in 2000, I helped organize an organization called APACE, which fought for the preservation of affirmative action. And that group actually came out of the Rainbow Coalition for Jesse Jackson. So there's a long history in Seattle of communities of color working together, and the Japanese American community was an integral part of the pan Asian community, which was an integral part of communities of color coming together to fight for affirmative action, discrimination after 9/11. And even now, it continues as we fight for reparations for Blacks.

JS: I think that for me at that time, I think it was how do we hold the complexity of opinions around some of these issues? So I think that there wasn't fundamentally this question that these things were tied together, but it was the visibility and like, for example, police accountability back in like 2000 was a tough issue for our community to reckon with. It's not where we are now, I think both in terms of how public discourse has changed, even though we know that it still needs to change, and how do we hold in respect members who are not quite there. I mean, I will say those were a lot of the conversations that we had on the committee and on the board, right, that we want to be respectful of a lot of Niseis who weren't quite there. And I think we see that. These were the changes in demographics in our community, but I also think the evolution of what was happening within our organizations, or our cultural institutions at that time. And, you know, Arlene was one of the early kind of civil rights leaders of our committee and the work, too, of the chapter. And I think it always was a sensitivity of we know this is right, but how do we keep and bring people along? And I think that always is the challenge and the work. Like, I'm not gonna say that that, you know, there's not one answer to that work. But it is about holding space that you can bring people along, because you are mindful of those who just were a little, there was discomfort at times about really being visible about certain issues. So I really don't think it's about, you know, creating this, like, perfect image of that. I think that what's important, though, in this work, because it was intergenerational, is how do we carry and respect that and tie it back to our experience? Because that's so much about undoing all of our trauma. You don't want to be seen taking positions, what does that mean to be so outward on certain issues, and not everyone was there. And that's where the growth in space happens. You hold space, and you hopefully create room for dialogue and fuller understanding. And I think, you know, Tatsuo really carried that, and a recognition that we also have to be unapologetic, because in places and city government and other places, we want to have policy change at the state level, we also need to be unapologetic, and we need to be visible. But there's lots of different tactics and ways we can get there. But it is about how you help bring people along and be aware of sort of the sensitivities along the way.