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EK: Then for... just because it seems like you're really pushing for, I mean, on your end, communicating that kind of message forward, just your current thoughts about Japanese American activism as of right now and the Seattle JACL chapter itself and the younger Japanese American generation?

TB: Totally. Big, big question. I think that I'll go out on a limb here and say that the Japanese American community's experience with incarceration has made it one of the most activist ethnic minority groups in this country. I think that that's played out in different ways. Some JAs, especially in the 1950s and 60s, worked really hard to assimilate as a matter of safety and just as a matter of acknowledging that what happened before can happen again, but also for a lot of Japanese Americans that found themselves in resistance movements, civil rights movements, women's rights movements, I think that, by and large, the experience really led to a spur of activism for a lot of different reasons, both sort of internationally, with Japan becoming viewed as... what was the term? Basically, this economic view that Japan would overtake the United States. There was a big rise in anti-Asian racism throughout from the Vietnam War and into the '80s. And then also this kind countercurrent of Japan being cool, and Japanese Americans being "acceptable," and almost like the second class whites. And so for people to be able to kind of acknowledge that privilege, but still continue to be activists, I think it's just been huge, and has always been kind of part of our community.

I think that the Trump administration, but also just the 21st century, the detention of immigrants, and how there's just been this gigantic push from the Bush administration with the Patriot Act, and, I mean, post 9/11, the treatment of Muslim Americans and calls for people to be locked up based upon their religion or their ethnicity, I mean, all of this really just ripped off a lot of scars for Japanese Americans. And so, activism has grown and changed in many ways. I think for JACL, that's made us facing outward and understanding that we can't just have Bon Odoris and matsuris, it's important for us to be in the street and standing up for the rights of all. But, in my personal experience, having gotten involved kind of pre-Trump, and then right during Trump, it's definitely felt like a lot of people are more energized and more active than before. There's definitely a lot of fellow millennials on the board and in activist spaces, obviously, not just in JA, but in Asian American organizations as well. But it's felt like -- and I'm joking here -- but it's felt like a lot of Sansei are willing to chain themselves to a bus and do just about anything because of the injustices that they're seeing. And that kind of passion has been really incredible, especially at a lot of conventions and seeing nationally. So it's kind of feeling like the [inaudible] is overpowered sometimes. [Laughs] It's the pure drive and sacrifice, but, yeah, I don't know. I'm being kind of convoluted right now, but it's been a beautiful experience.

EK: I guess, in just my interest as well, for the younger generation, I mean, I'm, I've taken a bunch of classes focusing on Japanese American activism, specifically, and during the periods of pre-incarceration, during incarceration, post incarceration, and reading books like Serve the People by Ishizuka, and everything. But you learn about all these lessons on Japanese American activism, Asian American activism, but times are changing and you would think that history wouldn't repeat itself, but clearly it is. I was just wondering what would you like to see? Or what do you think the younger generation really should focus on moving forward with not just the injustices of the Japanese American community, but in the general world itself, the issues that we still face?

TB: Yeah, no, that's such a great question. I think that, by and large, stories of history are kind of told, they're just the chronological -- A happened and B happened -- then it's very easy to kind of assume that history is made by leaders, or it's made by politicians or big, powerful individuals. But I think that the history that I wanted to know more when I was young, and I'm just beginning to learn now, is that it's always activists, and it's always people that are willing to challenge the status quo and to organize and to basically be creative, and think about what sort of world that they want to see. And that kind of mentality, I think, is actually rawer and more present in our generations, Elaine, than I think that it was previously. But I think that there's also so much more that we could all be doing to uplift voices in this world right now. So, I think that's kind of what -- if I had a big microphone in front of a bunch of young folk -- and I'm turning thirty soon, so I'm feeling like, okay, I'm still young folk, but I don't know if I'm really young folk now. But really just understand that history is not like this really clean cut path. It's really messy, and it's just a matter of people getting involved.

EK: Right, right. Yeah. My dad, he, I say that he is pretty open minded, but sometimes I still get into arguments with him about progressivism, activism, stuff like that. And one thing, just like thinking about what you're saying, I always tell my dad, "Masses are the makers of history." So it's really what you put in and how you get people involved and getting people involved in the first place is what changes the course of history. So, just something that I've thought about, and that is something... thank you for that little spiel, it really...

TB: No, totally.

EK: No, it definitely, it's like, I feel like sometimes it just feels kind of heavy with everything that's happening, and gets hard to remind yourself, are things really going to change? Like over the course of history, like hundreds and hundreds of years, nothing, it seems like sometimes nothing has changed, but really is just about uplifting voices and getting people to be involved in stuff like that.

TB: Totally, totally, but it is, it feels kind of cruel sometimes when you realize that you're thinking the same thoughts that people have had before, and we still aren't there. We're still experiencing the same experience is, on like a deeply ethical level, it feels wrong to walk through [inaudible].

EK: Right, right. Well, thank you.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2021 Seattle Chapter JACL. All Rights Reserved.