Densho Digital Repository - HyeEun Park Interview

Densho Digital Repository
Seattle JACL Oral History Collection
Title: HyeEun Park Interview
Narrator: HyeEun Park
Interviewers: Brent Seto, Bill Tashima
Date: December 14, 2021
Densho ID: ddr-sjacl-2-28

<Begin Segment 1>

BS: All right, so just getting right into it, then. Hi, HyeEun, it's nice to meet you. My name is Brent. I'm a junior at the University of Washington. I am studying Political Science and Law, Societies and Justice. So I'm really interested in international institutions as well as legal institutions and how that shapes our society. And then I guess... I got interested, and I was like, "I'd like to join the JACL." And I was a... my focus here was that I would like, I was hoping to reconnect with my Japanese American identity. That's something that I've been meaning to do, and I felt that college was a great time to do it. I was recommended to the organization by one of my professors that I had for a Japanese American course. And I've just really been hoping to reconnect with the community in that sense, and that's been my main focus. And also, just to echo what Bill said, the questions I'm asking, if they're long, they might be a little complex, and there's really no pressure for time. Just take your time answering them and that type of thing, as well as if there's any problems hearing me because of my mask, let me know, I'm more than happy to accommodate that as well. But then, I guess just getting right into the interview questions, can you tell us a little bit about your family history? How and why did you come to the United States, and what was life like growing up in Minnesota? Were there any challenges you faced growing up in a white family as a person of color? And did your community treat you differently?

HP: So, we're starting off light? Yeah. No problem. So, a little bit about my family history is I was born in Korea during the '80s. So, I was born in a southwestern part of Seoul, which was known for, actually starting to get into manufacturing. And so, my eomma or my Korean birth mother, was not highly educated when she found out that she was pregnant with me. And then also, she was engaged to her current husband. I think it's still her current husband, I don't know. But it's what stuff K-dramas are made out of. So it's often used as kind of like a plotline, that has been used a lot in K-drama. So, there are a lot of different Korean adoptees that came out of the wave from the 1950s because of the Korean War. So, there are a lot of multiracial children that were born. And in Korea, they are very Confucian and very patriarchal, and so they base their family trees off of the male. So, if you were to have -- so I don't actually belong to belong to a family tree per se but I started my own, because that's how the government is able to kind of relinquish those parental rights in an effort to start the international adoption process. And the reason why they do that is because the social welfare programs are not geared towards keeping Korea's children within its boundaries. It's been known to be a bit of a problem during like the '80s, when the Olympics were in Seoul, that Korea tried to tamper that down, because it was such a part of their, noticeable part of their GDP. So that was really interesting learning about that. That's where I got really politicized was in Korea. And I mean, also getting into college. But that's kind of how I came to the States, because my adoptive family had seen many other people in the community. Minnesota is known for being a large bastion of Lutheranism, and so there are a lot of pastors, a lot of Christian practicing families would adopt children who are transracial, because it was accessible to them. Because they had the money and the means to do so. And they felt also like they were not necessarily doing me a favor, but kind of in that vein around white savior complex, where it's a charitable effort, where you go and adopt a child from another country, and so that's what wound up happening. I'm the only child that was adopted in my family. Sorry, my cat is going crazy.

And so that was really difficult because the first instance of racism, that I experienced, I was really, really young. I was in kindergarten, and there was a girl that was just asking me, "Why are you here? Why is your face like that?" And she was like, "Why is your face so flat? Why are your eyes like that?" And I just said, "Because I was born this way." And I wound up talking to my mom about it in the car, my adoptive mom, and she just didn't know what to say. Because she doesn't have that lived experience herself. Even though she's actually a registered tribal member of the Oneida tribe, she's very white presenting, and so she has that privilege of being able to kind of blend in really. So, she didn't really have much of an answer. She's like, "Oh, tell him to go jump in the lake." And I remember thinking to myself like that, "How do... what? That doesn't make any sense. I'm so confused." And it was at that point, I knew, like, I cannot go to them for any kind of advice, because it would just confuse me further. So I would say that would be the biggest challenge growing up in a transracial family and you're the only person of color. It can be very difficult and challenging, but it's also really shaped me into the person I am today. And the emphasis on community for me, was born out of that, out of my childhood. Like we were, I was very much part of the church, because that's what your social life revolves around. So when you're in the Midwest, particularly in small rural communities like that -- sorry -- that it can be really insular. And so, it kind of comes to the fact where everyone knows your business, even though you don't want them to know your business. And they would ask really inappropriate questions, really racist questions. And just because they're never, they've never been exposed to a person of color before and don't know how to act because they're so homogenic in their community. Just very, very, very white. Very comfortable, very white.

<Begin Segment 2>

BS: Okay. And then a follow up question to that would be, you said that you've realized from a young age, you couldn't really go to your parents for help on racial issues. So, was there anyone in your childhood that you could turn to? Maybe like a friend or something or a counselor that helped you navigate those, or was it just fully on you?

HP: No, I would say the vast majority of it would be on me, but my grandma, who was a... she's a tribal, was a tribal member. So was my maternal grandmother, adopted grandmother -- her name was Pearl Morrison -- and she was the only person I could talk to because she had always, like, "You know, I wanted to have more Indian friends. And I just, it's really hard to find that here." And she's also the only Democrat, like staunch stalwart Democrat. And when she was... that area that I live in is actually the congressional district that the governor of Minnesota came out of, Tim Walz, so that's his district. So, you were coming from a very rural, but also very weirdly, purple, bluish, more bluish area, so you kind of get all kinds. And it's like a large college town because it was known for its overpopulation of educational institutions from trade schools and technical schools to four-year and two-year university. So that's kind of how I was able to sort of try to cope a little bit, was I could relate to my grandma. And sometimes even when I was really little, I would literally write her letters, even though she lived like ten minutes away. [Laughs] And she kept those letters. I don't know where they are now, but I'd love to see them because we would send each other candy in the mail. Like, this is my favorite candy, this is my favorite gum. These are my -- sorry -- these are my favorite stickers. I mean, I was like seven. So having that relationship with her all throughout, just until the most recent election where she did vote for Biden before she passed away. So, I thought that was really cool. Because I had thought that I... she had really suffered with her health for a while and she was pretty, she was up there, in her nineties, but that doesn't make it any less painful losing that person in your life. But she lived a full life, and I did kind of wonder, I was like, she passed away. That's very sad, but also kind of a relief, because her quality of life wasn't very good towards the end. I'm sorry if you're hearing my cat. But I just was like, "I wonder if she voted?" And then I had asked, a while after, I was like, "Did Grandma vote in the election?" I was like, "Oh yeah, she totally voted." So I think that was something that I, she always encouraged that for me, my interest in politics, even though... oh, my god. Even though I was seemingly alone in that.

BS: Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

<Begin Segment 3>

BS: And then, I guess, moving on then. So part of this process of a political awakening and stuff, I imagine, so, where did you go to college, and was there a strong presence of Asian culture compared to your hometown? And what sparked your interest to learn more about your ethnicity and reconnect with your identity? Was there any particular group of people, professors, that type of thing?

HP: So, I went to private women's liberal arts college in central Minnesota. It's called College of Saint Benedict, they're co-educational with an all-male university, which is Saint John's University, which is better known. And maybe because Saint John's University out of Jamaica, New York, people tend to think of that as well. But anyway, so I went there. There were more API students out there, a lot of them are Hmong. So, I hung out a lot with those friends and lot of international students from Barbados and the Caribbean. I am so sorry, this cat is driving me crazy. Hopefully, this doesn't ruin the recording. But can you hear her?

BS: Not really.

HP: Oh, good. Oh, good. Oh, wonderful. Okay. So, I will just keep pressing on. But it was there, I got involved with the "Asia club." I mean, there wasn't really a Korean American group or an Asian American group. Because a lot of those folks came out of like Minneapolis, St. Paul metropolitan area. And so, you have a lot of prep, high school preparatory kids coming down. A lot of privilege. So, I always joke that I went there, because they gave me the most amount of money, and thanks to affirmative action. I'm pretty sure that's a big part of why I went there. Because the scholarship was just so, it was hard to say no to, even though it wasn't the environment I really wanted to be in. So really hanging out with those folks, even though they're Hmong, but think sharing that experience of being in a rural area and being at a particular school -- and a lot of folks actually wound up transferring out of there. I was only on campus for about two years. So, I did what's called Running Start here, is a similar program where you -- right, Running Start, is that right? -- where you take post-secondary classes when you're like a junior or senior? Well, I left my senior year of high school, like peace out. And then I also did summer school just to get the hell out of there. I just needed to know that I could graduate with my undergraduate degree and get out. And my stop... my first stop was going to be Korea.

BS: Okay, yeah, definitely.

<Begin Segment 4>

BS: And that brings us to the next part. What motivated your interest in becoming involved with the Japanese American community, like after college, I guess? What drew you to the Seattle JACL, and then what drove you to become a board member?

HP: Oh, man. It's kind of a long story. But the short version is after I moved back to the States from Korea, and I lived in Korea from 2004 to 2006 -- I'm really dating myself here. But, so after that I came to visit -- I had a few friends that were living in Seattle, actually, and so I was just like, "Well, I want to just move there. Because I have no money. And I don't know anyone else really on the West Coast, where I could feel like if I really wanted to go back and forth between the States and to Seoul, that Seattle would be the best place to do that. I just really felt that there were more pan Asian American experiences in Seattle. And also the history of organizing with the Gang of Four: Bernie Whitebear and Uncle Bob, Larry Gossett, and Roberto Maestas. Those are the people that I had actually interacted with when I first started organizing. Bernie Whitebear had passed away, but I had been introduced to his sister, Laura Wong-Whitebear, who's a been very good, I would say, ally to JACL. So when I came to Seattle, I didn't have a job. I was looking for one that's very quintessential Seattle where you were working at two different bookstores in the U District at the time. Like when Barnes & Noble was a thing in U Village. That's no longer here, and neither is Half Price Books in Roosevelt. So, I would bike between those two. And so I'd go past UW all the time. And just kind of funny, like that area still is very much the same streets, but they're totally different, right? But I wound up actually getting more engaged with politics after having worked at a tech company. I really hated it. It was like glorified data entry. And I just was, I was making a fine salary and benefits, but I really felt like my soul was dead inside. So I was like, "I gotta get out of here."

So I wound up taking a paid internship with Nick Hanauer and Eric Liu, they're two kind of like, kind of thought leaders in the region. Eric Liu is a Chinese born American who's written some books and served in the Clinton administration as a policy adviser and a speech writer. And so that's what got me interested and kind of got me started. And Eric wound up actually tried to run for state senate. And so I was managing that campaign. Very green, very, very green. But I got to know a lot of Asian American organizers and influencers like Kip Tokuda, Hyeyeon Kim, Ruth Woo. I think Sun was in there, too, Sun Yang. But really, what was kind of the point for me was Auntie Ruth. I had met her just a couple times and I thought -- I obviously was very intimidated by her -- because they always talk about how, oh, you know, "She thought up Gary Locke's career." And every single Asian American person that was around during when he was governor always talk about that as if it were the heyday of Asian American politics, which I guess in some regards can be viewed that way. But for me, just being able to have her as a mentor, just someone -- and not really like a mentor in a formal way, more like someone that I could get to know, someone that felt like family, that didn't care that I was Korean, or didn't care that I was adopted. Didn't care. She was just like, "Ooh, fresh blood. Let's get you involved in stuff."

So that's how I got more involved with JACL, it was because of her and then also because of Joan Yoshitomi. Joan has really been through a lot this year. But we still keep in touch, tangentially as much as we can. And also my friend, Kristina Logsdon, whose husband Voltaire Atienza-Wilkinson used to be on the board of JACL, and so did Binah Palmer, who is a communications director over at SEIU 925, she was on the Civil Rights Committee, I think she was the chair of Civil Rights Committee for a while. And I was working for the Win|Win Network at that time where Kristina Logsdon was and George Chung was, when they were still there. I was on contract after working for Eric Liu and Nick Hanauer, with them doing some organizing work on a grant from the Gates Foundation, focusing on an education policy as a way to sort of demystify government. And our goal was really to kind of steep ourselves in the Pacific Islander community because that's where we really need to talk about kind of the hidden achievement gap or opportunity gap -- I don't know what we're calling it now -- but the gap.

And so I just felt like it was... I have to say that the Japanese American community and the Filipino American community were way more willing to accept me into the community. It was a lot harder to break into the Korean American community because I don't have their -- I wouldn't say stereotypical cut out version of being a Korean American by having immigrant parents or being a part of an immigrant family. I mean, even though I am immigrant, I didn't have the choice of coming to this country. But I had a Korean passport, I had a Korean name. And that's why I reclaimed my Korean name, because that's the name I came to this country as. So, for me, it was about taking my power back, and really trying to dismantle white supremacy in a way that it can be very invasive, and very toxic in small amounts. I mean, you look at what's been happening with BLM and also within the labor movement, that it is very, very much alive and it is something that we have to continue to resist. And when people talk about, like, the Japanese incarceration, and they talk about other, like slavery, and chattel slavery, and Jim Crow laws, and it's just a different version of it, it's become more sophisticated and integrated over time. And for me, having grown up in that instance of being completely siloed off and isolated because of where I was placed as a child, that is, to me a quintessential experience of white supremacy. So getting involved in the JACL movement, I think for me was, that could have been me. If I came here at a different time, if I were Japanese, or even during that time period, Koreans would have, they would have a note saying, "I am not Japanese American. I'm not Japanese. I'm Korean," so as to not be incarcerated. So, for me, that was really eye opening.

And as somebody once told me, when they recruited me to become more involved in leadership at JACL, "It doesn't matter, we're all pan Asian. It's okay." Bill. [Laughs] That was... I tried to hurl three excuses as to not be JACL president, and one of them was I'm not JA. Isn't that kind of like a, like a prerequisite? He's like, "No." So that's what happened. I got taken out to lunch and then I became president somehow. [Laughs] So that was super great. That was really fun. And I've had the best experience doing organizing and policy work through the JACL. But that was mainly also because I worked for Jim McDermott at the time, who was this really old congressman, who had... you have a question here about Wards Cove Act. So, I worked on that after my predecessor, who's Damian Cordova out of the Cordova family, had stopped working there and I started after him. So, lots of small connections that come involved with that. But I got to know the JACL very, very well, because the convention was here at that time when I was still working for Jim. And so, putting together a resolution, I was like, "I don't know what the resolution looks like. But if you send me a copy, I'll just do it." And so I think it's just a matter of not necessarily just like the racial identity portion of it, but also the values and the... I would say the values that align with mine were really more centrally based in that type of movement, and that political positional power that JACL has. I mean, there's lots of history, obviously, in different little pockets that are involved, too, right, between, for example, Nisei vets and JACL and "no-no" boys. Again, not my community. But what I find interesting are the, I always find systems and institutions very interesting, and how people operate within them, and how they either uphold them, or how they dismantle it. How to make it more accessible to people who are not normally exposed to that type of environment, when, because you just don't know when you're in it, and it's designed to be that way. So sorry, hold on.

BS: Oh, yeah, thank you. That's super helpful.

<Begin Segment 5>

BS: And I guess just moving on, we can skip around on the question list a little bit and go into the Wards Cove Act one a little bit more. It's a really interesting case, as the court case around it as well was really unfortunate. And I was reading about it in my research, and it was something I hadn't heard of before, so it was super interesting. But, from what I understand, there was a lot of political pressures at play, that were silencing the Asian American community, especially towards the Senate a little bit more. So, were there any, substantial obstacles that you face when you were working on the resolution? Like any type of coercion or ways that were trying to suppress you, as you were working to benefit the Asian American community?

HP: Yeah, you know, I actually didn't really have that much of experience with that. I think at this point, this had been like the nth time that Jim had introduced it into the house. And it was more, unfortunately, more of a ceremonial act, of really respecting the tragedy and some of the triumphs that came out of that whole court case. It was the first time that the United States government had held an international dictator responsible for acts on American soil against Americans. And so... and also what was really eye opening for me was working with Terry Mast in work... who was [inaudible] and their family, Gaia, and I forgot the other daughter's name. But, Gaia and... do you remember Bill? The two daughters Selmae and Terry... they're a part of --

BT: Yeah, I thought it was... It's not Cynthia.

HP: Oh okay, well, they're a part of the labor movement now like Legaya works in SEIU 1199 Northwest. She's been a member of APALA, the Asian Pacific American Labor Alliance, for a long time. And so it's really interesting to see this legacy of organizing within the Asian American movement, particularly the Filipino American movement. And also at that time, I had worked closely with Ron Chew on some of the International Examiner events that they were trying to promote, because it was the anniversary of that and Ron was writing a book about what had happened there in Seattle. I mean, he was there, he was really young when that had happened, same age as Jean and Selmae, and there's a lot of trauma that comes along with being a person of color, and the Asian American -- no matter how light skinned we are, as Asian Americans, it still is really toxic and it forms in different ways. And I think for that piece, I was in a really supportive community because they knew what happened, they'd lived through it, it had formed in how they moved forward in their lives from that moment on, what after happened with their murders and then the court case, and then all of that. So you're dealing with people's actual lives here. And I didn't know anything about it. When I first started, I didn't know. And I didn't know Terry. I didn't know anything. So going in there kind of blindly, but also trusting people who were leaders and who were involved in the movement, made it a little bit more, I think, authentic and genuine because it's a very serious thing to talk about, but it's also a really important thing to talk about, because they really wanted people to learn from it and wanted people to learn that there's nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in, and as scary and traumatizing as it might be, and there will be losses involved, and sacrifices that have to be made, like real, real sacrifice. When people say like, "Oh, we've made sacrifices." I'm like, "What are you talking about? Are you talking about glamping with no indoor plumbing? Or are you talking about like losing someone because of a political belief that they have, and they move on it?" So for me, that was something that was always really interesting to me and I think that kind of opened the lid in terms of running away with and having such a passion for community organizing and for policy.

BT: Yeah, and you talk about what you've learned from the policy, but what were your main takeaways from this whole experience in terms of, was in more on how to write policy? How to interpret it, how to advocate for it, what type of -- with respect to policy -- what was your main takeaway from this, would you say?

HP: I... that's a really great question. I think takeaways always change for me as I get older. Ha, ha. I know Bill's gonna laugh at this, but as I get older. But I'm pushing forty, and I look like I'm not pushing forty, but what the really important thing for me is having that experience is, particularly with Wards Cove, was a real building block for me. It really helped set the tone of letting people who have been most impacted lead. Let them lead, let them bring you along with you, learn about it, ask questions about it, don't feel stupid about it. The earlier you do it, the better, �so, you have that clarity. It just proved to me how you can move policy through different avenues. So, for example, you can use it through a civil rights organization as a standardized 501(c)(3), you have certain budgets that go along with that to make that piece of policy have some more teeth. There's another avenue in which... and then also like the coalition building, too. Because you're based off a membership type of organization, and there are still many, many organizations that still operate that way. I mean, unions operate that way still. You pay your dues, and then you have a pot for the collective good to decide, what are you passionate about? What's the most important issue for you and your community? And it doesn't necessarily have to be a racial group. It can be a labor movement, it can be BLM, it can be... but for me, race is always going to be central. It's always going to be a center point in my life because I have been so impacted by that. Sorry, I'm trying to keep a straight line of concentration, but my cat is not letting me. But sorry, can you help me get back on track? What were the... can you remind me?

BS: I think you've done a great job of answering it so far. It was just mainly what were your takeaways with respect to policy?

HP: Oh, right, right. I'm so sorry. So, civil rights organizations in general, and then you have, well, I'd say like (c)(3) organizations, and (c)(4) organizations where they're more political. They can do a lot more work around candidates and around races, and they can do independent expenditures, so they can take that money and use that to, for example, JACL was at the forefront of the referendum, oh god was it 74?

BT: Yeah.

HP: Good lord, around marriage equality. God, was it that long ago? Anyway, that's an example. Oh, my god, cat. Sorry. What was it?

BT: 2012.

HP: 2012,? That was like yesterday. Anyway, you can take that money and use it to contribute to an independent expenditure, but that just basically means it's a separate investment of money that you can use towards a campaign around an issue area, and nonprofits and (c)4s -- well, nonprofits can't do that, but (c)4s can do that. Nonprofits can endorse ballot measures. So, there are different... in the way that the system is set up and in the way you navigate around it, there are all these rules and regulations that you had to follow and have to have ethical and standards met and compliance, obviously. But if you know how to move within those systems, you can bring a lot more people around you and try to dismantle a lot of the racist stuff that is actually still adhered to it because it's still part of that institution.

And so the other part of it, for me has been around movement building. And that's been more with my experience working with BLM here in Seattle. And with the State Alliance, we really, really talk from an abolitionist policy point of view, and really double downing on that experience in terms of what it is that you push for. So for example, last legislative session, there were a slew of police accountability bills that went through. I'm pretty sure I was at every single one of those committee hearings, both in the House and in the Senate. And it is very draining to listen to impacted families, but it's even more draining for those impacted families to continuously wear their trauma on their sleeve, tell their story, after the loss of a loved one from law enforcement. And then you have a very powerful lobby when it comes to law enforcement. And to try to get those two that are so polarized right now in this country to come to an agreement on a policy that sets a statewide standard, and in which law enforcement has to abide by and there needs to be oversight by community. I mean, it's not just Black lives that are impacted, but they're the most, obviously, disproportionately impacted by this. So for me, I don't view the incarceration any differently. I don't view chattel slavery any differently. I don't view sex trafficking any differently. It is a symptom of the same problem, the institutional problem around anti-Black racism.

BS: Yeah, thank you. And then, thanks for going so deep into that. As a political science student. it's just super interesting to me, the policy, the politics side.

<Begin Segment 6>

BS: And then it's pretty, it's really clear that you have a passion for activism and are a super strong social justice advocate. And you've talked so far about all the work that you've done for social change, but what's really inspired you for continuing to push for social justice in the face of the ongoing oppression that we've seen? And you've talked a little bit about how you've been involved in the BLM movement, but have you been involved in the South Asian hate movement that has made headlines? And like, what advice would you give to aspiring young advocates such as myself that are hoping to get involved in this field at some point in our lives?

HP: So, for me, I'm always going to be focused on anti-Black racism, because that's the fulcrum of white supremacy. We need to talk about anti-Black racism in our communities. That's our responsibility as being a non-black community of color. And the JA community is really a great, I would have to say, like kind of ally in that there were reparations, right? There were congressional hearings, there were... and the Black community has really struggled for so along in their own liberation, that white supremacy ends up dividing us and pitting us against each other. And so, when you bring up like the anti-Asian hate movement, for me, I mean, of course, I'm impacted by the anti-Asian hate movement. But for me, for me personally, I don't say Asians for Black lives, I just say "Black lives matter." I think that if you start using language where it discerns us from one group that has been the most, or the most impacted, and the furthest away from equity, and then we decide, well, maybe if we just kind of siphon off a little bit here, and another group's going to siphon off here, and another group's going to siphon off here, that's when infighting begins and that's when white supremacy wins. That's when you have really racist and really problematic policies come through. I mean, we're still seeing the aftermath of what has happened from World War II. We're still seeing the aftermath of what happened with the election of Donald Trump. We're still seeing the aftermath of him still having immigrant policies in which children are in cages. They are torn away from their families, not that dissimilar from what happened during the incarceration, not that dissimilar from what happened during chattel slavery. So, I really feel like when we have conversations, particularly with, whether it's younger or older folks, just folks in general that are outside my small little bubble -- we live in a pretty small bubble here in Washington State, and in King County. And I think what's really important is also noting where we have privilege and how do we leverage that privilege in order to ensure that those furthest away from equity are right alongside with us?

BS: Yeah, that's... I definitely agree with everything you've just said. And I think it's super important to build solidarity as well.

<Begin Segment 7>

BS: And, this probably relates to your time, as in 2013, you became the first Korean American Seattle JACL president, so, I imagine that you brought some of the same ideals to your role. And so, what types of goals did you have going in? And what accomplishments or takeaways did you leave your time in office with? And, what types of challenges did you face as president?

HP: I'd have to say my first challenge was, I started a new job at the same time that I started this new leadership position. But what was really helpful is back then I had Elaine and Bill to kind of lean on. And a lot of the times it was Elaine where I'd be like, "What the hell?" And she's like, "I know, I know." So, it's like you get you get the best of both worlds with Elaine and then with Bill, Bill's a lot more upbeat, a little bit more, maybe more optimistic. I don't know if you've ever had met Elaine or had heard stories of her, but she's such a spitfire. She was a special ed schoolteacher, and for me, that was pretty incredible. Because she is such a kind person. And because I felt like I really identified with her. And then having Bill kind of reassuring me, they kind of tag teamed that, I'm this high functioning anxiety person, so, it was really good. But I was really concerned about my capacity. I had just started working for then Mayor Mike McGinn. I had moved away from working for Jim. And it was his real... and in McGinn's administration at that time, oh, there was like the consent decree that came down around SPD. And I had to project manage the back end of a program that was spearheaded by the mayor's office in order to address part of the consent decree around public engagement in working with law enforcement, working with SPD. That was, that was something. Very interesting experience to see how to even just be inside the precinct, to looking at the command staff, talking with the precinct captains, and each precinct is so different. That was a really big deal for me because that's such a... I just didn't even... I had never even entered that realm before. So being introduced to that, to the annals of city government, was really eye opening. And then also really realizing that it is quite the institution that's very stalwart, that's very... not flexible, that's still very rank and file, that's still very racist. And so, and we have officers that are from our communities, too. And people think many different opinions about them, whether that's from "isn't that great" to "that's not so great." We need to think about public safety in a different way. So those are those were kind of the earlier conversations that happened. But then not long after was the murder... gosh, there's so many Black lives that have been taken. Who was the... we had a resolution in 2013, at JACL National Convention in D.C.? George Zimmerman, he had gone off...

BT: You did the one on Trayvon Martin.

HP: Yeah. So, when that had happened, it was... I was really impacted by that. I had -- and I'm not really sure why, I think it's just because it triggered memories from when I was a child and like going to the store to get a treat, and people being like, "Well, how are you going to pay for that?" And, "Why are you here?" "Where's your family?" And all these invasive very, very much, very surveillanced. And I'm just a member of the committee, I'm this person's daughter, I go to this school... you can roll out as many receipts and as many validations as you want, but people are still going to be racist about certain types of things. And so, for me, when that happened, Trayvon Martin I just, I couldn't let it go. I really couldn't let it go. And so when we had discussed at the chapter I want to introduce a resolution for this. We introduce multiple resolutions, I actually can't even remember all of them, to be quite honest. But we were, we were doing really good work. And that's because of the body of people that were on that board, not because of my presidency. But the most important thing for me was getting other chapters on board, and that was very difficult. I really thought that... we had great allies, obviously a great support, and the resolution did pass. I had to leave before it even went to the floor, so I was really sad about that. I was so sad about that, because I worked so hard on the back end and having conversations with people about that. Andy Noguchi. I don't know... is Andy still around?

BT: Yes. He's with the Florin Chapter.

HP: I love that guy. I love that guy. Florin Chapter has always been super...

BT: He's always been out there. HyeEun, you're the one that offered that resolution, right?

HP: Yeah.

BT: Okay. And just for the record, it was interesting, because it passed overwhelmingly. But at the convention in the discussion part, there was pushback. We have several delegates and one district governor, who was a police officer. And it was almost as if all the issues were getting confused by positions they were taking without listening to what was being said.

HP: Or even reading the resolution. If you actually read the resolution, it was clear what we were asking for.

BT: It was very difficult. But yeah, HyeEun, prevailed.

HP: Yeah, but then I abandoned it because I had to go. It was frustrating.

BT: But the thing is, it passed overwhelmingly and made, it was a good statement for the organization. Because even though there were voices raised that sounded like there was going to be a hard battle...

HP: Yeah.

BT: But in the end...

HP: It wasn't.

BT: It wasn't.

HP: Oh, well, that's good. See? But you know, I left before all of that happened. So, I was just like, "Oh, my God, what's gonna happen?" So, you know, for me, having conversations with other JA leaders on Trayvon Martin resolution, it was really eye opening, because people are always willing to talk. People in privilege are always willing to talk. Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk talk, but they will never ever do anything, because it has their name to it. And for me, I'm a very direct and blunt person, and I just don't have time for that. I have very little patience for that. I'm working on it. But I think what is so important is if you do not move on this, people will remember, and they will not have confidence that you will be able to get things done that really crucially need to happen. So, I had some, a couple of conversations when we were in the room where -- I can't remember who was talking but I got yelled at a couple of times by people like, "Be quiet, I'm trying to listen." I'm like, I don't care, I'm talking about the Trayvon Martin resolution. So, I had to remember to my mind my voice and be respectful to elders as much as I possibly could. So that was a really great experience for me. It was the first time that I had actually authored or written a resolution and then carried it through kind of the negotiating process, and the back end, and talking to people and kind of advocating for that to go through. But the rest of the board was fantastic in making sure that that happened. So, I remember that was the year that Toshiko was... What was she? President elect? And she did something that happened. And I was like, "Oh, don't do that. Why did you do that? Don't do that." She's like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know." But then she was the one that actually contacted me that it had passed. So it worked out just great.

BS: Yeah, nice. I really enjoyed listening to that conversation.

<Begin Segment 8>

BS: But you mentioned that there was some tension between other JACL chapters. So, would you imagine that this was the point of contention between younger members and older members just seeing things differently?

HP: I think so.

BS: Okay. In terms of solidarity and that type of thing?

HP: Yeah, I think so. I think you have an older generation that was more, a little more hesitant, that just does advocacy in a different way. They do it quieter, they do it on the back end. It is more, I would say, consensus driven. Right. And for me as a as Xennial, I guess, it's more like having those one-on-one conversations. And sometimes it's... I think what kind of rubs elders a wrong way, too, and that generation when I was talking to them -- because I was talking to people who were in their, like, seventies and eighties at the convention, and they had lived through so much. And I really tried hard not to unintentionally or intentionally disrespect them because they did things a different way. I think that's a problem that we're seeing now. What we're seeing with BLM movement kind of taking off is, you have people who are so pure in their policy stances that they refuse to have any other type of alternative. And that is problematic. That is a losing game. And for us, we knew that, at least with that resolution -- we even had May. I mean May at that time, was still around, and she just she was also pretty progressive. But I remember having a conversation with May about that. I was feeling really frustrated and she was like, "Don't give up. Just keep going. Because you're doing the right thing, it's okay, keep going." And so May had been such a really great supporter along with Arlene Oki, and Bill, and Elaine, of course, too. But I was really touched by Andy Noguchi because Andy actually has a daughter who was adopted from Korea, Annie. And I got to know Annie at convention, and it was... that resolution was a great experience for me, personally, because that's when I really felt seen as a member of the community, just like everyone else. And that's all I have ever wanted in my life, even as a young child, because you stick up so much if you're not white, and you're just in a white ass school all the time. So, to feel seen and accepted, was a really nice validation that I am in the right place. As many times as I've tried to run away from Seattle, I just... I don't know what happens, I just keep coming back.

So, I think it's just JACL is -- I don't know what's happening now, but it's still very, I still feel very much that we are, we're the right JACL, not national. We're older than national, we do a lot more progressive things. We think way more creatively around how we want to steer the chapter, how we want to bring younger folks and make sure that's truly intergenerational. Not that other JACL chapters aren't doing that because Florin and Berkeley are, I'm sure, doing similar work and Detroit as well. I mean, you have these, you have these long-standing institutions. Particularly for me, I always think of Elaine and her work when the murder of Victor Chin had occurred, and she was the president of JACL Detroit. Oh my god. I mean, talk about someone on the front line. Talk about somebody who, a woman in that position. I mean, my god, just incredible. So, you get to learn a lot about how people who are so low key modest about everything that they do, you're just like, Elaine, you were president of JACL chapter in Detroit when that happened. That's amazing. Amazing. So, you get to learn a lot of things from different people. And one of the biggest things that I learned from Elaine is don't take shit from everybody. Don't take shit from anybody. If you really believe that it's the right thing to do, and you can bring people along with you, that's all that kind of matters. People have difference of opinions, and it's okay to have one disagreement on one certain issue but come together on another issue. But it's also really good to kind of note that, right? Note where people are more consistently at your back, and where some people are going to be a little bit more on the fence about things, and where other people are just like, "No, just no, we're not going to do that." So, it was a good learning experience for me.

BS: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

<Begin Segment 9>

BS: And we've talked about how you're one of the pioneering young members amongst the new JACL leadership generation, so, what would you say are some of the most important contributions your generation has made to improving and developing the JACL and its agenda and mission?

HP: I have to say, really bringing in the multiracial aspect of how we're seeing -- for me as an outsider -- seeing how the Japanese American community has sort of -- in the Seattle area -- has really changed, but also hasn't, how it hasn't changed. A lot of the same very, very Japanese American traditions still, people like, "Oh you know where Blaine is?" I'm like, I know where Blaine is. That's where you get all the good food for when, for when I wanted sukiyaki or whatever. Those are institutions, and for me growing up, I never really had that. I didn't. I had never heard of Asian American families. Like "Oh, do you know the Tokudas?" And I was like, "What the hell are you even talking about?" "Do you know the Kuroses? You know?" I mean, I'm like, "What, are we talking about local royalty, or like Asian Illuminati? I don't even understand. This is just so foreign to me." And I always had thought to myself being here that, "God, how lucky are you? How lucky are you to be in a community that has had such a long standing legacy of civil rights, and have a long standing legacy of speaking your truth, as traumatizing and painful as that is, and how having everything taken away from you in one generation can just change everything, everything, and how there's such a diversity of thought within the JA community, and the politics in the JA community -- which I don't need to be a part of -- but it's interesting to hear about. And how that plays out into the larger API community.

For me, I had always identified myself as being a Chinatown ID organizer because I lived there after I moved back, after graduating from my graduate program. And the biggest thing that I learned out of that is you don't have to be tied to a place to have community. I think that's one big thing we've learned during this pandemic is not everything has to be place-based anymore. When we were having the Uprooting series -- what was it we called it? Uprooting Anti-Black Racism in the Japanese American Community. There was a group of us that had planned some of that, and I was just really happy I could be a part of that not as a board member or as a committee member but as a -- I feel like I paid my dues -- but as a volunteer, somebody who is familiar with JACL. Also, I got wound up in wanting to see JACL be more active in the Twittersphere. So that was really fun for me to tweet for JACL for a short amount of time and to get our followers up and really be focusing on Indigenous sovereignty, Black liberation, because that's liberation for us all. And, for me, that's the... that's what drives me. I don't know where it comes from, it's just something that I've always been very passionate about. And I think maybe it's just because I am a byproduct of that system. It's not necessarily one system, but it's multiple systems. Like I come from a very weird social system from Korea and that's a whole other thing, a whole other institution to navigate. Because you have a cultural, because I have a cultural barrier, and I'm gonna have a language barrier. But also, on top of that it's like you're skirting two different worlds, and you just kind of don't really know. Like, "Oh, today, I feel hella Korean." And then tomorrow, I'm gonna feel not so Korean, but I'm still really involved in what's happening in the U.S. around, just everything that's happening." And I also think the election from 2016 was a pivotal thing for me. It was pivotal to see President Obama get elected the first time and the second time, but it was really pivotal to see how strong that backlash is from progress. When we really view -- oh my god, cat -- but when we really view in terms of a real anti-racist lens and how we look at not just how we are treating people, but how our policies reflect that and how they're implemented is the biggest thing for me, and how money, and how those dollars are spent and how they're impacted by that. Because dollars are, unfortunately, at the end of the day, that's the bottom line where you need to be moved... you can't have a movement without the funding behind it and the infrastructure behind it. And that's where I start to see, like the BLM movement is changing into that direction, where they're starting to turn from coming off the streets, and some people are still very much still out in the streets, which is also very important, because you need to yes-and all of that. But the most important thing is, how do you sustain that movement? And how do you keep, how do you keep it alive? How do you keep it relevant in terms of this is something that continuously needs to be addressed. And you can be screaming -- �Black women, Black trans women have been screaming and shouting about this for generations, and it's just, it's kind of like, "Well, you are right." We need to listen; we need to listen to people who are different from us who are having different experiences. And I think that's the great thing about JACL Seattle, is that it's not just like, "Oh. Well, you have to be JA to qualify to come in here." You have to... some sort of weird backwards kind of organizing. I'm so sorry about my cat. I don't know, this is like a whole new deal. I just got home a couple days ago, so sorry.

BS: No, yeah, it's okay. It's totally okay.

<Begin Segment 10>

BS: So I really liked that point about solidarity within the Asian American community in relation to other BIPOC communities. So, as a student that's taken numerous American Ethnic Studies, Asian American Studies, Political Science classes, the concept that keeps recurring in these classes is transformative solidarity, and how each generation discovers like their place in the social --

HP: I love that term. I've never heard of that before and had it put that way.

BS: Yeah, no, no, no. I appreciate that. It's not something I came up with, but it's how each generation discovers their place in social movements of the time. And you kind of touched on it already, but I would like to know, what role do you see the JACL playing in increasing awareness to issues facing like the broader BIPOC community and within these new social movements? So, what direction would you like to see the JACL go in finding its place and navigating?

HP: I honestly, I really don't have much to say on that. I feel like our chapter has always had a pulse on what's been going on and we adjust accordingly. It's very thoughtful, it's very strategic, there's always a budget that's adhered to it. It's kind of like clockwork, to be quite honest. So, I mean, as long as we can continue to sustain that, and give our elders a break, and step up to the plate, I think that's one of the most important things that we're seeing. I mean, you're seeing leaders like Toshiko Hasegawa, just got elected a port commission, that's another avenue worth exploring around clean energy. I mean, we're talking about climate change. That's the, that's also a huge issue. That's a huge movement, and that's also part of the BLM movement. We're also having conversations around -- what was last session that Lillian Ortiz-Self had introduced a piece of legislation that got passed to ban private facilities, detention facility centers. And so seeing Northwest Detention Center and having allyship with like, modern Maru Mora-Villalpando and... what is... I forget the name, she calls it something else now, what is it? Her organization, do you remember Bill?

BT: I can't... you mean the Spanish name? Like La...

HP: La Resistencia. [Laughs] I can never say that word.

BS: Is it La Resistencia?

HP: I'm sorry.

BT: That's it. Yeah, because Stan is always down there.

HP: Yes, I love Stan.

BT: Tsuru for Solidarity is always down there. JACL is always down there.

HP: Yeah, actually what's really funny is that -- talk about like weird community stuff like how tiny this town is -- so, I had finally written an email like a couple months ago being like, I really need to get out of Twitter and getting to do volunteer for Twitter because I just started a new job at the teacher's union American Federation of Teachers. And it was so weird because I was like, "Okay, thanks, Stan. I really loved being able to do that for a while. I'm going to see Tracy later. So bye." And then I saw Tracy, I saw her like two days ago. So that's kind of... it's funny that I get to offset...

BT: Was Tracy in Washington?

HP: She's with AFT. She's not with WEA. Everybody gets that confused. I still don't understand. It's only been two months on this job, but whatever. They're like, "Oh, we're going to session. Have fun." It's like I don't know what's going on. But yeah, it'll be... it's nice to still be connected. Always tethered to JACL in that there are people I haven't seen in so long. Tracy actually was, when I first came to Seattle, my first organizing job was with ROAR.

BT: Raise Our Asian Representation.

HP: Which is a terrible name. ROAR?

BT: Raise Our Asian Representation.

HP: Raise our API Representation, so terrible. So glad that changed. But she was on the board of ROAR. And so, I got to know her and Akemi. And I know Akemi, she's not here anymore, right? She's in Cali?

BT: Half the time she's here, half the time she's in LA.

HP: Okay, yeah. And who else? Wasn't there, George? And the Nanette? Nanette Faulk was a part of that. So, it was... it's sort of weird. Kind of had that, a lot of full circle moments, even during a pandemic, right. It's pretty incredible.

BS: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And thank you for your insight on that. That's really helpful and interesting to me as well.

<Begin Segment 11>

BS: And just one of my final questions to wrap up that I have was, as an Asian American, what do you think the biggest social or political challenge that faces the Asian American community, and what steps do you think should be taken to resolve it?

HP: I think it's anti-Black racism. It is so pervasive, and people are always talking about how -- particularly in Los Angeles with the riots that had happened -- how the stories of Black versus Koreans, how there's so much animosity, and da da da da da. It's like, why are we focusing on that narrative? Why are we even, that's not even... that's a tool of white supremacy. That is, you can smell it a mile away. It's ready and riddled to start pitting us against each other for just dollars, pennies on the dollars. But we never focus on, like, Yuri Kochiyama, or Grace Lee Boggs or... oh gosh, who was the Japanese American guy that was involved with the Black Panther Party here? I forgot his name.

BT: Guy Kurose?

HP: Yeah, I think so. Alan Sugiyama used to talk about it all the time.

BS: Was it like Chris Ichioka or something?

HP: Yeah, something like that. But that there's all there has been a long-standing connection and partnership between the Asian and Black community. So, hearing these stories of, well, you know, here are these Asians, particularly Koreans coming in. I mean, we have privilege, too, right, based off of white supremacy, unfortunately, because of how people view light skinned Asians next to, in its proximity to whiteness, right? And how it's not always... we always talk about like proximity to whiteness. I really hate that. What I would prefer is our proximity to the Black community, right? Changing that narrative, flipping it on its head and really focusing on, in the civil rights movement there were a lot of APIs that were on campuses with American Ethnic Studies movement along with... and that's still happening today. I mean, having to fight for critical race theory? You've got to be kidding me. And so, there are all these little points that are coming out that I think are born out of anti-Black racism and CRT is definitely one of them, abolition is one of them.

I don't know, I think what would be really fun actually is to see more partnership within the abolitionists framework of, with Tsuru for Solidarity. And I know that's like kind of asking a lot because Dan does double duty, but it would be really cool to showcase that whether that's through art or dance. Gabrielle has been such a great addition, I think, to JACL, because she makes me think in ways that I just never, I just never think. Like, to me, I used to think... I would kind of be like, "Oh, that's so like New Agey." But it's actually like, just because I don't understand doesn't mean that it's not... like I don't need to dismiss it in such a way. But dance is such a powerful form of storytelling. Art is such a powerful form of storytelling. And it's what it... it's kind of what sustains us in the movement, that we're able to process policy in different ways. I mean, I always lead with policy, but it's actually like, issues. It's not policy, because issues can be, issues can have different vehicles. And that vehicle could be policy, it could be organizing on the ground, it could be through art. It could be through... the resistance comes in many different forms. And honestly, just by sheer existing is something that I had never, and it's never made me sit down and think about, right, as being a Korean American woman. And just by saying that, just by taking up space, and the Japanese American Citizens League, I feel is always so low key, and that's what I do really enjoy. But when we celebrate our wins, it's always so much fun. And I think that's what I really miss, too, a little bit about, since the pandemic, is the end of the year celebration, kind of miss that and seeing people sharing food. I miss Four Seas. I'm not gonna lie, that place was so dingy, but it was so delicious. And you knew you could search for certain karaoke songs like you couldn't find at Bush. I mean, these institutions are now gone. And so how can we pay homage to them and its cultural relevance and impact? I mean, we would have Congress, congressional folks come for campaigning in Seattle. Like when my condo was still around, we would go to the Bush. Like Jim, when I worked for Jim, Jim totally skipped out on like this event, and he's like, "Oh, I'm going to the Sounders match." And I was like, "Okay." And then I saw him at Bush. And I was like, oh...

BT: He was with Mike Honda, both of them were out there. I was there. I was sitting...

HP: Yeah, right, because we were celebrating the passage of Referendum 74. Yeah. So, there's these little stories and memories that are so, They're great and pre pandemic. But there are also so many great memories that I can lead to now, even over Zoom, like when we had the Uprooting Blackness in the Asian American, Japanese American Community, there are people of all different ages from everywhere. It was insane. There was this elder woman and her daughter who was a baby boomer, but her mom remembers being forced into camp. Remembers a lot of things. And she doesn't talk about it, but she was there listening and participating. Her daughter was there also kind of having that, contributing to the conversation. And then we had another guy that was from the east side, I think somewhere in Bellevue. He was a high school student. And I was just like, "Oh my god, this is amazing." Having these conversations with folks just within community, whether you know them or not, your community just kind of knows no bounds. And I think that's something that JACL has really taught me and I'm very grateful for.