Densho Digital Repository - Tomio Moriguchi Interview (Densho ID: ddr-sjacl-2-23-8)

<Begin Segment 8>

BT: Tomio, I have a question for you. So when you did the Pride and Shame exhibit, you mentioned that it was, a lot of people in the community were a little wary about this type of bringing up these issues because, you know, a lot of times people don't like to talk about things that were bad. What are the barriers did you face? Did you face any hostility from outside groups that you can remember?

TM: No. Well, first of all, we didn't have too much relation with people outside the community. But, you know, this whole issue of redress was just starting to, you know, I mean, people just didn't talk about it. You know, I don't know about your parents, but my mother never mentioned it. And my father, he died when I was only twenty-something, so we didn't have much chance to talk about it. He was very pro-Japan, so he wanted to go back to Japan.

BT: Where were you? Were you at Minidoka?

TM: No, no. Tacoma people went to Tule Lake with Sacramento people just by coincidence, and then I'm just guessing my father had the option to move to Minidoka, but he became a pro-Japan and wanted to go back on the first ship. Fortunately, my mother's brothers, or my father's two sisters, some ways, told them, "Don't come back, we can't feed you." So I'm glad, but my father was all ready to take the family back to Japan on the first ship.

BT: Was he a member of one of the groups at Tule Lake?

TM: I don't know much.

BT: How old were you? You must have been pretty young.

TM: Yeah, six and eight. All I remember is we used to find the best cafeteria with the best dessert. [Laughs] I'll be very frank, you know, we just, we were playing with all Japanese kids. Bit because my father wanted to go back to Japan, we had to go to Japanese school half of the day. So that's why I, that's my excuse for my English being so bad. My Japanese, it wasn't any good either.

BT: You're pulling our leg here. [Laughs]

KE: Yeah, my grandpa, my mom, when we talk about the incarceration period, she just talks about how my grandpa just talked about playing with the other kids.

TM: Oh yeah. And you know, all the girls were there, and we were younger, but I remember my older brothers and things, you know, they were always going and having dances and things like that. And we would just snicker on the side, you know. But I still remember, there was fifty-eight blocks, I think, and we knew every cafeteria, everyone that treated us good, or gave us delicious dessert, or you know, yeah, so that's what we did. We just went around.

KE: When you were talking about the dances, I remember hearing stories about my Auntie Hatsumi going to those dances because she was older at the time.

TM: And Tule Lake also became, a lot of Hawaiians came. So, you know, there was a lot of, I guess, fights and things like that.

KE: It is the biggest camp, too.

TM: Well, it became a high security. But the point is, the more they labeled them "troublemakers" were concentrated. So I think there was a couple of killings, too, isn't it?

BT: Yeah.

TM: But my father was active in the so called pro-Japan.

BT: I don't know you knew that Seattle JACL and Stan Shikuma, as our president, were one of the main players in getting a resolution pass at the national convention last year, asking for kind of, like, acceptance of people from Tule Lake, because there's always been a stigma.

TM: Oh, yeah, I read that a little bit in the Rafu but I don't know the details of it.

BT: Yeah. So it was interesting only in the fact that, you know, JACL is a lot different now. And if you go to a convention, I would say like, two-thirds of the people are under forty, and probably half the people are under thirty. And that's a good thing, but, you know, it's just different from when I grew up in JACL, everybody was over fifty, maybe. My first national convention was actually in San Jose when Norman Mineta was a city councilman, and part of the planning committee for the San Jose convention. But the thing is, the bitterness still remained. And in the debate for that resolution, there are not only a few of the survivors, but a lot of descendants from other camps, and especially older JACLers said they could never forgive being taunted and humiliated by other folks at Tule Lake. So it was just one of those things where, you know, you would think seventy-five years later, all of that's passed. But sometimes it's hard to... you can forgive the government, but your own folks, your own people, it's harder to come to grips with. So anyway... but I want to give it back to Kristen. Do you have any other questions, Kristen?

KE: No, I think that was it. And Bill, I'm taking Vince's class right now about Japanese American Studies, and we just went over Tule Lake and that period.

BT: It's an amazing story. I mean, you know, there's no one story that talks about Japanese Americans. That's the whole thing. So, Tomio, first I want to ask Kristen to stay on the line for a little bit after this is done so we can --

TM: The point is, Kristen, you have my email, so if you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to --

BT: Tomio, we are going to send you a couple more questions. Okay? But did you have anything else you want to say before we cut out?

TM: No, not at all. Good luck on your program. And, you know, JACL, personally, you know, I wasn't too involved after a couple of years, but it's a good program. I mean, like I say, a program like this allows people to get to know each other and I think that's important.