<Begin Segment 1>

HH: Today is Saturday, August 27th. The time now is 10:19 on Saturday morning. And I am in an interview, and I'd like to ask your full name. What is your full name?

BO: My name is Ben Ohama.

HH: And what is your wife's full name?

BO: My wife's name is Kuni Ohama.

HH: How many siblings do you have?

BO: Five all together. One of five.

HH: Okay, so how many siblings do you have?

BO: I have four brothers and sisters.

HH: Okay, and I'll have you repeat the question.

BO: All right. How many siblings do I have?

HH: Yes.

BO: I have one sister and three brothers.

HH: And how many children do you have?

BO: We have three children.

HH: Be sure you repeat the questions that I give you, all right?

BO: Sorry.

HH: What kind of education did your children receive?

BO: What kind of education did my children receive? They were all sent through college.

HH: Okay, and what kind of occupations do they now hold?

BO: The occupations that my children hold right now, my oldest son is a dental technician, and my daughter is a schoolteacher, and my younger son is an engineer.

HH: Do you have any grandchildren?

BO: Do I have any grandchildren? Yes, I have two.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

HH: All right, and when were you born and what is your present age?

BO: When was I born? I was born in Santa Maria, California, and my present age is seventy-seven.

HH: What are your parents' names?

BO: What is my parents' name? My father's name was Kunzo Ohama, and my mother's name was Hanako Aoyama.

HH: Later on you'll have a chance to fill out the genealogy form, so we'll try and reconstruct as much of your family tree as possible, but you don't have to do that at this time. How many children were in the family, males and females, in your family, and at what point did you fall? Were you the oldest, the middle, the youngest?

BO: How many children did we have and where did I fall? We had five children and I was the fourth. You want the order?

HH: It's fine. Will you describe the town or city in which you grew up?

BO: The city and town where I grew up was Sanger, California, and it was a rural farming area.

HH: And what kind of activities did your family have at that time?

BO: What kind of activities did my family have? At the time of evacuation we were farmers. We had a 40-acre vineyard.

HH: Vineyard meaning you grew grapes?

BO: Grapes.

HH: What kind of schools did you attend in Sanger?

BO: I attended -- pardon me. What kind of schools did I attend in Sanger? I attended an elementary school and Sanger High School.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

HH: Do you remember what you were doing on December 7th when Pearl Harbor was bombed?

BO: Do I remember what I was doing on December 7th? Yes. I was on a basketball team and we were going to have a game, and I believe it was in Bakersfield.

HH: So you were playing a basketball game that day?

BO: Yes.

HH: So did you find out about it in Bakersfield or did you find out about it afterwards?

BO: When did I find out about it? I think we stopped at a restaurant and the news came out.

HH: What kinds of hardships or difficulties did your family experience at the time of evacuation?

BO: What did we experience at the time of the evacuation? Well, really, I think all the rest of the family accepted it quite well, but I was bitter. I was really bitter.

HH: And do you recall the nature of your bitterness?

BO: Yes. Do I recall the nature of my bitterness? Yes. I actually rejected my faith, Christianity, and I was determined to be a "good American" and that was the feeling that I had first.

HH: This bitterness, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but did you feel betrayed?

BO: Do I feel betrayed? Yes. I felt that I was, well, rejected. I felt devastated, really, because I was thinking primarily of material things. We lost the vineyard and actually, I think we gave it away because we paid, well, it's around six thousand dollars for it, and then we put in probably seven or eight thousand dollars of improvement that we had about a seven, at least about maybe a ten thousand dollar grape crop ready to harvest. And so a nice fellow who took us to Clovis to board the train to go to Poston, took us right by our farm. And I looked at the farm and I got bitter. Just like that, I just turned bitter. I said, "We just gave it away," and I was bitter. The last one on the train.

HH: And you went directly from Sanger to Poston?

BO: Yes.

HH: Did you go to an assembly center?

BO: No, I did not go through an assembly center. I went directly to Poston.

HH: How long were you in Poston? Poston was in Arizona. How long were you in Poston?

BO: How long was in Poston? Off and on, I would say about fifteen months. I went into Poston and in the following fall, I went to Idaho to help harvest vegetables and fruit. I went back into camp and went out the following spring.

HH: To, again, to harvest vegetables?

BO: To harvest vegetables? No. This time I came to Philadelphia and it was primarily to seek relocation for the family to help seek relocation.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

HH: I understand that you were in the military service. At what point did you enter the service?

BO: My military service? Well, when I first came to Philadelphia, I was in the reserves as all Japanese Americans were. And after that, I signed up for immediate induction, because we were in a separate category. And then from there, I did go into military service and relocated back to Pennsylvania.

HH: How would you describe your experiences in the service?

BO: My time in the service was, well, I felt it was my duty. And because of that, I took my training seriously. The time, of course, I was being trained to go as a replacement for the 442nd. Our brother was killed, and I was notified three days before I went into the service, and that had an effect in my military life, because my brother often wrote that the primary thing was to get the family relocated, and now that was gone because of course my brother was going to do it, because he was left. And my purpose then was to train. My brother who was in combat and was killed, he said, "Then take your training seriously because you're going to use it in combat." And after that I was ready to go overseas and they took all the Japanese Americans who had officers IQ, and they put us into Fort Snelling to train for the military intelligence. And from there, I went to Japan. That was a great experience.

HH: So your overseas duty was as an interpreter in Japan.

BO: My overseas duty was as an interpreter.

HH: How old were you when you entered the service?

BO: How old was I when I entered the service? I was about twenty-four, roughly, twenty-five maybe.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

HH: That's when you went to Philadelphia, when you went into the service?

BO: That's right.

HH: What kind of formal education did you receive during the course of your lifetime?

BO: What kind of education did I receive in the course of my lifetime? Well, I mentioned earlier, I had a high school education in Sanger, and when I came to Philadelphia after the service, I studied plastics at first, and I was working as a plastic molder. And then I went through the Corpell School of Dental Technology from where I took off as a dental laboratory owner.

HH: Do you remember how you came about the decision of coming to Philadelphia in the first place?

BO: Do I remember why I came to Philadelphia in the first place? Yes. Basically, I thought of helping to relocate the family and the secondary thought was that Philadelphia was the center of, one of the centers of our culture and heritage historically, and also from the point of religion.

HH: So from a historical cultural standpoint, you thought Philadelphia would be a good place to come to. Did you know anyone here before you came?

BO: Did I know anyone here when I came? Yes. One in particular would be Henry Umino, who was my brother-in-law's brother, and he was working for the reverend, Dr. Donald Gray Barnhouse in Doylestown. And actually he was the only one that I had known prior to the evacuation was here. Of course, those who came from Poston, there were several families in this area already. So I could say that he was the only one that I really knew.

HH: Did you receive much encouragement from your family to come to Philadelphia?

BO: Did I receive encouragement from the family? Well, not really. Because my brother George, who was the head of the family, went out to Idaho first and I followed him out to Idaho. And coming out to the East Coast was primarily my idea. Of course, my brother did have some experience, he had friends who were in the produce business who worked in the Philadelphia produce market. That didn't really affect me, but my brother did have that in mind. He followed, and he also came to Philadelphia.

HH: So to think back to your life at Sanger, can you think of something that happened there that you always remember? Some thought, some event, some experience that was, always remained with you?

BO: Do I have thoughts that affected me from Sanger? I would say yes, definitely. In those days, I can think primarily of the two families, the Domoto family and the Nishioki family, who had been very good to us. Our family, my father went bankrupt. He was in the produce business at the time of the Depression, and we lost everything. And we moved out to Fresno to work, and no place to stay, we just slept on the riverbank, and there's where these two families saw us and gave us a home, a house to stay in, and gave us fruits and vegetables, milk, you name it, and love. They just showered us with love. I can remember that very well.

HH: What kind of resources did you bring with you? For instance, how much money did you have with you in your pocket when you arrived in Philadelphia?

BO: Okay, what did I bring with me as far as resources and things? Actually nothing, almost nothing. I had probably one little bag that I carried my clothes, and what little money I had, and I suppose it must have been under a hundred dollars. I didn't know that I would come to home of Dr. Donald Barnhouse, and Henry was there. I suppose that was my security.

HH: At that time, did you plan on Philadelphia being a permanent home? What kind of view did you have of Philadelphia? Was it to be a permanent place, a temporary place? How did you see Philadelphia at that time?

BO: How did I see Philadelphia? At that time, well, actually, I came out seeking, my primary desire was, as part of the family, was to get settled in America. And I liked what I saw here. I did not come with the intention of settling permanently, although it was definitely a possibility.

HH: I see, so you kept an open mind about that part.

BO: Yes.

HH: When you first came to Philadelphia, you were by yourself, except for the few friends you had such as the Barnhouses. Who would have taken care of you if you'd gotten seriously ill?

BO: That's a good question. Who would have taken care of me at that time? Really it didn't cross my mind, but of course, as I look back now, I don't think I could have sent my children out under those situations. And therefore I'd say, "Well, it's just a matter of trusting the WRA." I can say I trust God, certainly, but it would have been whatever the WRA would have done for me had I gotten ill.

HH: For the record, WRA stood for...

BO: War Relocation Authority.

HH: Right. While we're at this, an acronym, what other organizations did you belong to?

BO: Well, what other organizations did I belong to? Starting from the time of my first coming to Philadelphia area, first I belonged to the Japanese American Citizens League. And then having gone through school, as a dental technician, I belonged to the Dental Laboratory Association. Having settled in Philadelphia, in Willow Grove at this point, then I joined the Willow Grove Methodist Church, and I joined the men's group, whatever group was there, I taught Sunday school. And then I joined the Boy Scouts of America, I was a Scout leader. And I joined the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and then I joined AARP, that's senior citizens group.

HH: That's AARP?

BO: AARP.

HH: American Association of Retired Persons, is that correct?

BO: Yeah, something like that.

HH: Okay.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

HH: Looking at your life at this point, what would you consider to be -- aside from Sanger, we covered that part already -- what would you consider to be the most memorable aspect of your life thus far?

BO: What would be the most memorable aspect of my life thus far, especially in the Philadelphia area? Well, I came as, because of Philadelphia being a cultural and historical and also a religious center. And being a Christian myself, I think the greatest thing that happened to me is my growth in Christianity. I've really matured in that aspect.

HH: Regarding your wife, how did you meet your wife?

BO: Regarding my wife and how I met her, that's a good question. My sister, married to Henry's brother, I mentioned earlier, who was in Doylestown, and they lived in Watsonville. And I heard a lot about the Hirokawa family, which my wife's maiden name is Hirokawa, and when I went to Poston, naturally, there were many who we saw that we got to know each other, and that was good. And out of that, we did get married. Kuni went off to school at Wilson College in North Carolina. And when I got out of the service, she was teaching school in Detroit. And I came to Philadelphia and she moved out here also. Well, also, Kuni's brother Jimmy was relocated into Philadelphia.

HH: Earlier you described the communities in which you grew up in California, Sanger. How would you describe the communities in which you lived in Philadelphia, around Philadelphia?

BO: How would I describe the community that I lived in around Philadelphia? Well, when I came, I lived in Doylestown and then I went to Haddonfield where I went into the service. And when I got out of the service, I lived in Landsdale for a while with my brother-in-law Jimmy, and then I moved to Willow Grove, and we've been there for almost fifty years. And as far as the community is concerned, they're all nice, and I think it's the way we make it. And I've enjoyed it, I made friends, I experienced good and bad, but I don't think about the bad parts. And I have to say that everything was a plus, very good.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

HH: However, in terms of realities, would you say that there were moments of racial prejudice that you experienced during the time you were in this area?

BO: The racial prejudice that I experienced in this area? Yes, definitely, I experienced a lot of prejudice in this area.

HH: In what form did it take?

BO: In what form? Well, basically, I think when I was in the, as president of the Japanese American Citizens League, there was a lot of pressure put on me at the time when we were trying to pass the citizenship for our parents. And the thing was, well, we had the fight at the fellowship commission meeting, this human relations meeting, and so it was the battle, not straight racial, but still again, I think we were the brunt of it. I have experienced in work, but I've had more benefits from it than the negative, the fact that I was a Japanese American dental technician, people looked up to me as one who would do good work, they looked up to me as one who was honest, and I just capitalized on it, I thought it was great. And my children the same thing, that you're gonna experience this, and you're gonna have to be able to, live above it. And that has been my practice right through. So prejudices have been a stepping stone for me. I do not like them, but I used it.

HH: Can you compare and contrast your aspirations as they were prior to World War II, and after World War II? In other words, maybe there hasn't been a shift. Had you lived in California all this time, maybe your aspiration would have been the same, or they took a shift because you moved to Philadelphia? But can you compare and contrast your aspirations in the two situations?

BO: Yeah. As far as my aspirations from the time before the evacuation 'til the time after the evacuation, I would say they are different. Basically because if I stayed in California, our family had decided that we would work together until each of us got established. And I think my choice would have been farming. I think I would have had a vineyard. In fact, the vineyard that we lost at the time of evacuation probably would have been mine, and I would have helped the others find whatever they wanted in life. And now I'm a retired dental technician and I enjoyed my time as the dental technician. So I would say definitely the plans were different, but life is still the same. I would have enjoyed both.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

HH: I know that the military experience has particular significance for you. Perhaps that which your brother lived as much as your own. Can you speak to that situation as you understand it?

BO: Can I speak, address my military experience as to how I feel today, the influence that it has had on my life and such? Yeah, it's great. It was a great shock when my brother was killed. I found out about that in Landsdale where my brother George was, and the three days before I was going to be drafted or going in for active duty. And we get this telegram from President Truman notifying that my brother was killed. And so I went upstairs and cried and cried. Then when I felt better, well then, I just started to look up, and this is a spiritual experience now. And so I could see this white thing, and I looked up like that, and I see Jesus. And it was great, because at this point, I realized if my Lord can cry with me, well, then I can relate to Him. And it was a great experience in my life. And with that, I went into military service and I had a hard time getting adjusted at first, and I wanted to be a conscientious objector. And my officer was Allen Funt of Candid Camera. And they called me "Omaha" in the service, and he was a big help to me. And he said, "No, Omaha, I want you to understand now. He hurts with us." Allen Funt hurt with us. And he wanted to get me straight on that aspect, and he helped me a great deal. And after that, I would say basic training was, well, I really worked it, I was a good soldier.

But then as far as the service in Japan, that was wonderful. I went to Japan right after the war, December after the war, and I served as an interpreter. And I was assigned to the First Cavalry Division, and we were assigned in Nagano Prefecture. And it was our duty and job to go out with an officer, and get the feeling of the public in general. So we talked with the police chiefs, teachers, manufacturers, workers, geisha girls and prostitutes, but we wanted to cover the whole span of the Japanese activity, and it was great. But at first, the defeatist attitude of the Japanese, shikata ga na attitude, was so hard to overcome. And I managed to tell them, I says, "Well, I'm an American and we're the victors," but I said, "America wants Japan to become strong again," and they could not understand that. And I might interject this. My father told me before I left the States, he says, "Then I want you to understand one thing. A lot of the Niseis are coming back bitter about what they experienced in Japan. And so when you go," I said, "you be careful." And he said, "Japan was strong enough to build a military power as big as it was, is able to come back again because of that knowledge." And I said, "Thank you, Dad." And I went to Japan also with that. And so as I talked to the people in Japan, it was so good, I felt it was so important to get them over this defeatist attitude. And it was awfully hard, but primarily it was because I said, "Well, MacArthur is "Makasa Tennou," they called him "Makasa Tennou," which means the Emperor. And I said, "MacArthur passed the order that he wants Japan to become strong, and that's what I'm here for, and I want to help you build up." And that was one of the biggest things that we had to overcome, and I think I helped him a lot, and I felt good about that. And another thing, while we were going on these patrols, at one point, we were studying, we were supposed to check up on the education system and encourage unions in every level. And we found out that the unions were well organized in the education, and so finally I asked one of the teachers, I said, "Well, what union are you in?" And we checked it out, and it's the Communists. The Communists had the teachers organized already to teach them the Communist philosophy. And boy, really, I said, "Lieutenant Moon, this is serious now." And I said, "We're going to have to let the headquarters know about this." And I don't know how many people found that out, but I felt pretty good about that. And even today when I read about Japanese education and they say how good it is, I say, oh, I think I had a little bit of that. But that's probably the highlight of it from the point of Japan.

But from the other, as far as my brother's concern, this is the story that I gave at the Washington, D.C. at the judiciary committee, but basically it'll get down to this. We Americans of Japanese ancestry are the only Americans who had to prove loyalty. And not only did we have to prove loyalty, we had to fight for the very things that was denied us, that put us into the concentration camp. And that's the hard one for America to understand, and that was a story that I gave at the judiciary hearing, and also for, ever since 1950 or so, I've been putting that message across in the churches. I was a member of what they called lay witness mission teams, and we would go from town to town, church to church, and I would go about twice a year. That's a very strenuous thing, to go for a whole weekend and give our testimony. But there, we would meet college professors, doctors, and people who wanted to become authors and so forth. And we would tell them the story about Christ. And so I would always include what Christ meant to me through this whole evacuation story, and I would include my brother. And even to this point, my principle of serving the Japanese American community and America is that these men did not die in vain. And I think that this is a role that Japanese Americans have to carry on, and my commitment is still strong in that area.

HH: Thank you very much, Ben, this has been very valuable.

BO: I thank you.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.