<Begin Segment 1>

RB: For the purpose of the recording, my name is Rob Buscher, I'm conducting the interview. Today is Monday, June 19, 2023. Can you please state your name for the camera and what generation that you identify as?

MA: Yes. My name is Michael Asada, and I'm a Sansei.

RB: Great. So we're going to start with just some kind of family backgrounds. What was your father's name and where was he born?

MA: My father's name was Mark Asada, and he was born in Dinuba, California, in 1928.

RB: And your mother's name and place of birth?

MA: My mother's name was Itsuko Taniguchi, and she was born in... I'm sorry, my father was born in 1925, my mother was born in 1928, in Salinas, California.

RB: And they are both deceased now?

MA: They are both deceased now, yes.

RB: So since your parents were both born in the States, do you know how your grandparents on either side came to the United States?

MA: Yes. Both sets were from Hiroshima, and they arrived in California in the late 1890s, and they came as farmers to work the fields.

RB: And were they in California that whole time?

MA: Yes. So they arrived in California and my mother's side farmed the lands in Salinas, California, and my father's family was near Fresno, California, central California.

RB: Do you have any siblings?

MA: I do not have any siblings, so I'm an only child.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

RB: And do you know much about your parents' life before you were born? Do you know how they met?

MA: Yes, I do. I know that my mother was thirteen when she arrived in Poston with her family and my father was sixteen. He had just graduated high school, but he sensed that something ill was going to be happening soon with the United States and Japan, and so he graduated early trying to ensure that at least he has a high school degree. And so when both sets of families ended up in Poston, they spent three and a half years. And then upon release, my mother saw my father on the train, which, this train was going to Seabrook, New Jersey, and that's where I was born. But she noticed this, she says, in her words, a "good looking man" that she said she'd like to get to know. So I guess that came to fruition.

RB: So what was the age difference then between...

MA: Three years.

RB: Did your parents talk much about their camp experience?

MA: My parents did not speak about their life in camp, and I was really oblivious to the experience. I know that during family gatherings when my uncles and aunts, i.e. my mother's siblings, were over, we'd be talking and they'd be sort of laughing, and they would make a reference to, "Oh, I remember this. Don't you remember, we used to do that in camp?" They just threw the word "camp" out fairly regularly, and I never knew the context of that until much, much later. But it was only in, I guess, high school, maybe sophomore or junior year where I was doing a project. And I was, the topic was the incarceration of Japanese Americans in these camps during the war, which I thought was really incredulous that this would happen in the United States. And so as I did some research, I was writing, and as I came across more information, I just could not believe that this was really true. So I just bounced some of the topics to my mother, and I said, "Hey, did you know about these Japanese Americans that were incarcerated during World War II?" and she goes, "What do you mean?" And I said, "Well, yeah, it happened in the United States, I can't believe it." And she goes, "Yeah, we were there." And so it was not until that moment that I realized what they had gone through, and then I started, because of my questioning, I started to get more interested, and then I started to ask my parents about their history and their story, but they never really revealed it to me on their own, it was only prompting that they would share some information. Then I would get more information as I had family gatherings with my relatives, and then I would ask my aunts and uncles, and then they would all start to chime in together. However, interestingly, I never sensed any bitterness when they were discussing their camp life, which I find also very unique because I don't think I would have been in that same proper state of mind if I was a young man or even an adolescent like my mother was. But they never harbored any ill-will, however, they did say they suffered and sacrificed a lot, but I think in their eyes, they had a life, but I think the toll was on the Issei who didn't really kind of understand, couldn't speak the language necessarily. So I know my grandmother, she might have had a different perspective than my mother or father did.

RB: Are there any specific stories from the camp years that either your parents told you or that you heard from other relatives?

MA: Camp still raised, I know my mother, who was three years younger than my father, she would always say how much fun she had. She would be playing sports, basketball, softball, with the other females, and she thought this was great. She thought really it was like camp because, summer camp, because she didn't have to work the fields as I understand her. When she was in Salinas, they picked strawberries, they picked other vegetables and things, and she said all we did was work in the fields, go to school, come back, and do house chores. So she has a different, I guess, perspective on her teenage years in camp. Where my father was sixteen to nineteen, and I think his was more sobering in the sense that he knew that he had to make a wage so that he can take care of his ill mother. His father was not with the family at the time, he was detained in a FBI Department of Justice camp, which I'm finding more information now as we speak. So that's another, I guess, item or variable in the equation of how I'm trying to find out more about my family's history.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

RB: So you mentioned you were born here in Seabrook. What year was that?

MA: I was born here in 1953, and like, oh, well, there were probably, as I do the research, there were twenty-five hundred Japanese Americans that came here to Seabrook Farms in this area, about three hundred Japanese American families. And this was really at the invitation and offering by Mr. Charles F. Seabrook, who was the farmer in this area. And so his son, Jack Seabrook, approached the war department and asked if they could use Japanese Americans that were interned in these camps as laborers. So he was able to get approval from the government, and so he did a little recruitment and went to various camps and offered us new life after they were being released from the camps when the camps closed down in 1945. So my parents and their parents took this opportunity up to be one of the twenty-five hundred people that came to this small community, which in southern New Jersey is very rural. And it's unique because there were no Japanese Americans in this area. So I was born here, born and raised, went to school with fellow Japanese Americans. But one of the, I guess, not lessons, but my mother was adamant that I didn't bring out the fact that I was Japanese. And I remember her always saying, "Don't bring attention to yourself and try to blend in." So I really didn't think I was Japanese or Japanese American because I had Caucasian friends, I had African American friends, I had Puerto Rican friends. And in this area which was really an immigrant concept where a lot of people came in to work the farms for Mr. Seabrook, we had like a global village, like a Model U.N. if you will. And so it was not uncommon for us to have various ethnic friends from different communities, we would play together, our parents would work together, we would go to school together, and then we would have these international, if you will, festivals where we would have different types of food. So we would all kind of play together, we would go to school together, and it was not necessarily segregating that the Japanese Americans would stick together, the Puerto Ricans would stick together, or the Caucasians, we all kind of just blended in. And I never knew how rich that story was until probably after I graduated high school.

And then in 1990, I read a book by Charles Harrison that talked about this global community. And as I read it, I said, wow, I can really appreciate everything that he was saying, but if no one was familiar with this area, they would not believe how harmonious it was growing up here in Seabrook, New Jersey.

RB: It is a remarkable story, and when you think about what time period it was and the sort of prejudice that other minority groups and immigrants were facing in different parts of the country, and what a unique circumstance that it was for Seabrook to be this kind of warm and welcoming place.

MA: Yeah, I share this story often now as I get a chance to because I wish that experience would be able to be displayed now currently in our situation. And I fear that it would never replicate that sort of environment, unfortunately.

RB: As you were growing up, did you have any sense of how unique of a place that Seabrook was by comparison to other places in rural New Jersey or elsewhere?

MA: I did not. I did not really understand, I just knew that we didn't have a lot of money, but my friends, we all grew up together and they didn't have... we knew the affluent families around the town, the businessmen and women and their families. And we felt just privileged to be associated with them, but I never understood necessarily the status that our families or my friends had in this particular rural area. We did make maybe once a year trips to north Jersey, the area I live now, it's more affluent, or in Philadelphia, that was a big trip to go to have Chinese food in Philadelphia in Chinatown. So that was a once-a-year event, and that was quite a trip for us.

RB: Do you recall the name of the restaurant?

MA: I don't remember the name of the restaurant, but now that I live in Cherry Hill, which is right across the river, I do visit Chinatown often down on Ray Street. And I can point to the area, I said, "Yeah, I used to, when I was a child, go into that restaurant here." So it was very fond memories, and all our relatives would go, it was a big deal, and we would go down there to have Chinese food.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

RB: In terms of the house, were your family living in Seabrook corporate housing?

MA: We did. When I was young, we lived in the village, which is on the same side of the school systems. If you are familiar with the area, the schools are located on the east side of Route 77, which is kind of north and south. And there's a set of schools there, but my father was able to get in a lottery after I was ten or eleven, and he was able to move into a single home on the other side of the street. So I was able to walk to school, say, a five minute walk to school, and very convenient, and all my friends, we all lived in the same area. And so like I said, we went to school together, we played together, our parents all worked at Seabrook Farms, and so it was really, I didn't appreciate, I guess, the security and the sense of just being able to not worry about things. I guess that's the main point.

RB: Were your parents involved in Japanese American community spaces as you were growing up?

MA: I would say yes. We have a Seabrook Buddhist Temple, and my mother was the main leader in the temple, she was a Sunday school teacher, member of the board. And my father not in leadership positions would always support the various activities, whether it was a chow mein dinner sale, whether it was making sushi, whether it was Obon festival, all these types of events that drew the Japanese American community together, they were a part of if not leading or supporting in some fashion. But I would make the comment that, interestingly, even though these were Japanese American community events, it was really supported by the entire community. So again, you would see a really, support from various ethnic communities that supported us, the Estonians would be out, the Latvians would be out, the Puerto Ricans, and the African Americans. And they would all come to these events, and it was very, very well-populated.

RB: Do you have any specific memories of either the JACL chow mein dinners or the Obon in childhood and adolescence?

MA: Yes, I do. I remember, as I said, back then, there was a lot of Issei and Nisei. Us Sansei, we were small, but we were just doing errands. But I remember my mother and my father and my aunts and uncles and my grandparents and other Isseis, they'd have an assembly line for making chow mein or sushi, they'd have all the ingredients. I can just still picture this. Or making mochi for mochitsuki, we would have the old fashioned, the steamed rice and then we would have someone pound it. And then several, ten years later, they were able to get this grinder where they would grind the rice up and then make it into the patties, and then they would box them up. So, yes, I had very fond memories of that. Probably I can't say when it stopped doing the chow mein dinners and the mochitsuki, because then this lack of people to support it because it's a very senior population that we have here. And out of the twenty-five hundred original Japanese Americans, there's only about, as I understand it now, about two dozen, maybe twenty-four that you can name by name from that original twenty-five hundred. And that's because of people moving on, my generation, after I graduated from high school, went to school, and probably went off to work somewhere else. So there was not a lot that stayed behind, and the ones that stayed behind had to do the work and support of these events, and it was tough to support.

RB: Do you remember Oshogatsu celebrations?

MA: I do. My family as well as all the Japanese American families, would open up their house on New Year's. And I remember my mother slaving away, making sushi, roast duck, chow men, shrimp platters. But I'd be home helping her in a sense, and I was, again, an adolescent, up into my high school years. But I remember my father going out, and he would pay the respects and welcome other families, and he'd go door to door, and all the other men would be coming to our house. And so they wouldn't really eat a lot, they would have their customary drink and toast, and move on. But because we had all this food, I asked my mom during high school if it would be okay to invite my friends, my high school friends. So she said, "Oh, yeah." So my high school friends loved it, they all came over. So there was a couple of dozen friends that always would stop by for New Year's and kind of celebrate. So to this day, I carry on that tradition in my own sense. I open up my house on New Year's day. When I was in the service, I would open it up to my units and my families would come in. And then later on as I became a businessperson, I would have my business contacts and colleagues come. So it was very fun, and I told them why it happens, because Oshogatsu is the most important holiday for the Japanese, and so I wanted to carry on this tradition, so that's what I've been doing.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

RB: Did your parents speak Japanese at home?

MA: My parents did not speak Japanese much. They did speak Japanese, and I think that's where I feel like I kind of missed out, because I had to go to Japanese school when I was a child, and prior to Sunday school, yeah, Sunday school in the temple. And so at five or six we had a small classroom, there was no heat. I remember having my winter coat on, I could see my breath, and it was just not a pleasant experience. But it was Japanese lessons, it was Japanese school, and I just told my mother, after a couple years, "I cannot take this anymore." I said, "I really don't want to go," and I just made a fuss, I guess. So she allowed me not to take the Japanese classes anymore, so to this day, I regret that. So to answer your question, yes, they did speak Japanese, but not necessarily on a regular dialogue. My father's mother lived with us, and she raised me. And so my mother and father were working in the plant on shift work, my father was shift work. But my grandmother raised me, and she couldn't speak English. So she would speak to me in Nihongo and I would always answer her in English. So I can understand Japanese to some degree, and I could speak just a very, very minimal, just to get by.

RB: So you mentioned your father was on shift work. What did that entail, exactly?

MA: So shift work, depending on what occupation or job you had at the factory, and I think my father was working in the cold storage warehouse. And if it was a night shift, he'd go in, I'm assuming it was like maybe five o'clock or six o'clock, and he worked through the night in an eight hour shift or ten hour shift. And so he would come home during the day and sleep. And so my mother, she was a payroll clerk, so she was very popular. Because on Friday, she would pay out the paychecks to every employee, so she kind of knew everybody, everyone knew my mother. So she had a nine to five shift per se, but my father was sleeping during the day, and then he would go to work in the evening. And then when I'd come home after school around three, I'd have to be very quiet because my father was sleeping. So that was the type of shift work that was very common for all the people that worked in Seabrook Farms.

RB: Were you involved in any Japanese American sports activities and other teams?

MA: No. Surprisingly, we didn't have those types of leagues for my age group. I do remember at the community center where there was a large... well, I guess for my mother and father, they had social events, they had dances, and they had basketball leagues. I remember my mom had these various jackets, silk jackets with the emblem of their team on there. And I remember my uncles, they played in softball leagues, the JACL, Seabrook JACL. I just saw one of my uncles' jerseys. And so I don't know why that did not continue, but at my age, they didn't have a youth basketball league or a baseball league or anything, so we kind of just migrated to the conventional Little League or church basketball league. So there was no specific Japan American League.

RB: So I guess you touched on this a little bit in one of your earlier answers, but growing up, did you have a sense of being Japanese American or is that an identity that you sort came into later in your life?

MA: Yeah. Again, I know it sounds bizarre, but I did not really think that I was Japanese American. I know that's maybe hard to believe, but again, I think my parents really encouraged me just to not stand out and blend in. And I guess it was ingrained on me that it was just blending in. And so I never really appreciate -- I mean, I did appreciate the fact that we have our Obon festivals and I put on my yukata or whatever and dressed up, but I never really sensed that I was Japanese American until about, I guess middle school or high school where I sensed that on a couple of occasions, that I did receive a little bit of prejudice and discrimination. I didn't kind of understand what was going on here, but I did feel like I was not welcomed in this particular area. And then names started to be called out, and then I started to sense, "You know what? Maybe I am a little different." I do look different, but I never sensed that as I was growing up.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

RB: Are there any specific stories around discrimination or prejudice that you felt during adolescence?

MA: I didn't feel there was a lot. Maybe an isolated instance once or twice, however I do remember there was this local swimming area. And when my parents arrived in 1945, 1946, this particular area did not allow Japanese Americans to attend their swimming area. And so when I was growing up, I was asking my mom, I said, "Hey, that's a nice area, can we go swimming there?" She said, "No, I don't think it would be nice. I mean, it would be good if you would go there." And I never really understood that until much, much later.

RB: Do you know if there were any formal segregation practices around this area?

MA: Against the Japanese Americans?

RB: For any groups in Seabrook.

MA: Well, I think that, yes, when I was growing up, it was the height of the racial tension back in the mid-'60s and there was clearly a black/white, I think, sensitivity. Even the high school that I attended in Bridgeton High School, I would say was forty percent Caucasian and forty percent African American, and the rest were minorities. And back during the, I guess the Civil Rights Movement, there was clashes between Caucasians and the African Americans, and it really was kind of an eye-opener for me. Because I had Black friends, I had white friends, and it was almost like, "Are you going to be up with them or with us?" So I was kind of torn in between, so I was kind of removed and not wanting to get engaged. But I did not feel that at that time it was really necessarily aimed at Japanese Americans, it was more of a Black/white issue.

RB: Do you remember any conversations in the Japanese American community at that time period around what was happening with the civil rights?

MA: I do recall there were some older Sansei or late Nisei that were in support of the Civil Rights Movement, and they went down to march in Washington, D.C. So there was an appreciation for what was going on, and I guess the social injustice that was happening to other minorities, especially to the Black communities and communities of color. But I do remember hearing people that were, I guess, politically aware and active, that they would make an effort to support the Civil Rights Movement.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

RB: So we covered most of those topics related to childhood and adolescence, but what sparked your interest in U.S. military, and was that decision that you made out of high school or did you plan to go to university and then later join the military?

MA: Yeah, I was not planning on joining on joining the military at all. As a matter of fact, during my timeframe, the Vietnam was going on, so the war was very unpopular. And I had never had any ideas of joining the military, but my best friend, he was, we were thinking about colleges, and I was thinking about what to do in applying to some Ivy League schools or whatever. And my friends said that he, I said, "Where are you going?" He said, "Well, I'm going to the naval academy." And I said, "Wow, more power to you." And his brother, who was two years older, had been going to West Point. And he told me that his brother thought that I would be a good candidate to apply to the military academy, and I said, "Well, that's not in my plans," and I don't have any, I guess, ambition to go into the military. But fast forward, he says, well, when he comes home on spring break, "He wants to talk to you." And so he did talk to me and he kind of had his brochure, and it was a hard sale, but I thought, wow, this is kind of interesting how they prepare you to be a leader, and you get a good education, and so that was my introduction to the military. So then I did apply and I did get an appointment. And again, the Vietnam War was in its height, it was not very popular. I knew that I felt self-conscious, hard to believe at that time, of wearing my uniform because people would be yelling some very derogatory things at me. And now I'm very confused because are they yelling at me because I'm Japanese American? Are they yelling at me because I'm wearing a uniform or both? I just, I was kind of perplexed about my identity at that time. So I never, at that time, intended to make the military a career. I thought I would pay my obligation and then move forward. But I really enjoyed the military life, the camaraderie, it did allow me to have many, many opportunities, it sent me to graduate school and post-doctoral school. And so I've been very, very fortunate, and so I've lived my entire career and life supporting the military or being in the military.

RB: So this was West Point that you were at?

MA: I did attend the military academy at West Point, and from there, I spent twenty-eight years of active duty. Then I retired, I took off my uniform, but I went to work back as a civil servant for the Department of the Army for another eight to nine years and then as I retired from the government, after that, I formed a consulting firm that represented some clients to defense industry, so I was able to kind of, I guess, assist them into getting into the offices of various leaders.

RB: What years were you at West Point, and what was it like being a Japanese American?

MA: I was there from 1972 to 1976, and I would say, oh, maybe there might have been a dozen Japanese, probably another dozen or so Asians. So out of a class of 900, so it was very, very small Asian American makeup. But I could sense that I was a minority. I could sense that this was an occupation and I guess a profession that the minorities, in order to, I guess, get along, you would have to kind of just get along and not stand out. If you were exceptional, whether you were an athlete or scholar, then that would be something else. But if you were just trying to make ends meet, if you will, you'd have to just try to not get your nose too much out in front of you.

RB: Were there any issues of discrimination or prejudice that you felt?

MA: They would just bark at me with the vernacular of some Asian epithet. But I don't think it was directed at me as a person, but it was just the military lingo if you will, of trying to get under your skin and see if you could cut it. So I never really detected any racial discrimination during school.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

RB: So then following graduation from West Point, were you on active duty deployment? What was your role in the military?

MA: Yes. So I graduated as a second lieutenant in the armor corps, and so I went to units that had, at that time, M-60 tanks, Patton tanks, now the equivalent is the Abrams tank. So I was always in the tank community, and not only a platoon leader, a company commander, but to command units with tanks. And then when I retired from the military as I was wearing a civilian uniform if you will, I became the deputy program executive officer for the army, which was in charge of all ground combat systems. So not only for the research and development of these major platforms, but the procurement, the distribution. And so during that time, we Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Enduring Freedom, which was Afghanistan. So I was the individual responsible to ensure I'd be working for the defense contractors, whether it was the Abrams tank or Bradley fighting vehicles. Once they're developed, to procure them for the government and then to distribute them to the combat units, field them, and then obviously to see how they operated. So it was very, very exciting times.

RB: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like a big role, between just the logistics required to even get that equipment for deployment.

MA: Right.

RB: Were you involved with any of the testing?

MA: Yes. I would oversee the testing, and you'd be working with the civilian contractors and the government engineers, and whether it's on, let's say, the gun system or the platform, they're doing the research and development and might be providing enhancements and the government might be at a point where we're saying we're not really ready for this enhancement, we only have a certain amount of budget. So that's another thing. As a program manager, you're always worried about cost schedule and performance, so you have to look at the cost of a platform and then you had to justify your budget, it's almost like running your own business. So then you'd have to go to the Pentagon and you had to work with your colleagues or your leaders and you'd have to provide programmer views, so it was very comprehensive about a particular acquisition program.

RB: It sounds very complicated in terms of how all the different moving pieces. I'm curious, in your time in the military, did you feel there was a general awareness about the 442nd and Japanese American military service?

MA: From other people's perspective?

RB: Yeah, from other people in the military. Was there a general awareness, you felt, among your colleagues?

MA: No, I don't think that it was really understanding, unless you were really a history buff, but I don't think it was common knowledge for anyone to know about the 442nd or the contributions that had happened with that particular unit, especially when their families were still incarcerated in camps. So I would have to sort of kind of mention this in conversation, and again, it was not received with, I guess, open eyes. Because they said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Well, there was a segregated unit that was formed, and it was due to the fact that they wanted to show that we were still loyal to this country, but it was very difficult. And I'm not sure, being a professional career military man, if I would have had the ability to make that same decision, realizing what I'm asking to do for my country when my family is still behind barbed wire. So I really admire the sacrifice of these people.

RB: Yeah. And then being a career military person yourself, that must give you extra perspective into what it may have been like for Japanese Americans at that time.

MA: Right, right. I do "what if" drills many times, like if I was a young man in my late teens, and being asked to fight for this country, and I have no problems about fighting for the country, but not when social justice is being, happening to not only my family, but my relatives and for all the Japanese Americans that were seventy-five percent citizens, or seventy percent citizens of this country, and to be forced into these relocation centers.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

RB: It's a really difficult conundrum to imagine what any of us would do in that kind of, same shoes as the Nisei soldiers. So during this time period, your active duty in the military, where were you living? Were you kind of stationed all over the country at different bases?

MA: Stationed all over the country and internationally. I had a tour in Korea supporting the Republic of South Korean government and army there. So spent much time in Germany, also with several units out there. So it was a mix of domestic and international assignments.

RB: What was it like being in Korea and were there any sort of adverse reactions to your Japanese heritage?

MA: Yeah, that's an interesting question. Again, I was sort of naive. I didn't think that there would be any reaction. I'm wearing a green uniform, I'm an army officer. But my friend made a comment, they said, oh, you know what? You better... kind of joking, he said, "You better be careful what you say," and I didn't really appreciate what he was saying. And then I got over there and I was a liaison officer. I was an American officer working with the Korean R&D group. And so my counterparts, all Korean officers, some of the senior ones would look at my name. And then I started getting interrogated like where was your family from, and where were you from? I said, "Well, I was born in the U.S. My family, my mother and father were born in the U.S., and my grandparents immigrated in the 1890s. So then I could see them softening up about, but there was very direct questioning about if I was really an ethnic Japanese or was I Japanese American? And then I kind of found the nuances of what that dialogue was really trying to point to.

RB: Yeah. I can imagine that that may have been a concern at times, given the history of Japanese...

MA: Right. So then I did a lot more research about what had transpired during the Second World War, how the Empire of Japan colonized Korea, and so I can understand again. So again I was in a conundrum, because I said, "Wow, this is so convoluted and complex," it's not straightforward. But I guess, like, I do now, I try to treat everyone with dignity and respect. So I could understand the questioning, the line of questioning, however, it did set me off a little bit.

RB: While you were living abroad, did you have a chance to visit your family?

MA: I did. I probably visited half a dozen times. My children were in high school at the time, or junior high and high school. And so in the sports leagues, we would go to Japan and play other Asian teams. So it was an opportunity to visit Japan. I guess really, for me, it was my first opportunity to be in Japan, so I really thought, wow, this is somewhere I could really connect to. I mean, being in Korea, it was kind of a unique experience, too, because I see everyone with the same, that looks alike, and I'm like, wow, I'm not a minority anymore, I'm kind of like a majority. Everyone has black hair, I mean, I used to have black hair, but everyone looks the same. But when I went to Japan, I even felt more connection. And I said, "Wow, this is how my relatives treat each other," and I really like the orderliness of things and just the way the beauty of the country and just the, I guess the precision of things. It just allowed me to appreciate my heritage a lot more.

RB: I can imagine. And what a great opportunity, especially for your children at that age.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

RB: Since we're talking about family, can you tell me a little bit about your wife? When did you two meet and when did you start your family?

MA: Well, my first wife was my high school sweetheart. So she and I grew up together in this small community of Seabrook or Bridgeton Common Proper, and we were together while I was at the military academy, we got married immediately thereafter, and then we had two children. So my son, who is going to be forty-three, I guess, it's hard to believe, and my daughter is going to be forty this year. We had two children from my first marriage, and now they, my son has been assigned all over the world. He's not in the military, but he's a foreign service officer, so he's a diplomat in the State Department. And my daughter is a licensed architect in California, and so she lives in San Francisco. My present wife, she and I have been married for twenty-two years, and we met in Michigan. And so now she and I live in Cherry Hill, New Jersey. The reason that we came back to my hometown here, or my state of New Jersey, is I came back to take care of my parents about seven years ago, where my mother and father's health were of concern. And since being an only child, I tried to have them move out to Michigan where I was living, but my father felt it was too cold. And so my wife said to me, "Well, if they're not coming out here, why don't we move back to the East Coast?" And I said, "Wow, you'd be willing to do that?" She said, "Well, who's going to take care of your parents?" So I owe my wife a debt because she was willing to move out of our comfort, if you will, and come here to my hometown, which I'm comfortable with, but it's very rural here in South Jersey, and I was not quite sure how my wife would be able to adapt. So she sort of sort of had a request. She says, "I have no qualms about taking care of your parents, but is there any possibility that we can move a little bit further out of the country to some metropolitan area?" So we moved into Cherry Hill. And so we feel very comfortable there, because Philadelphia is only ten minutes away and we can get into the city very quickly.

RB: So what was it like coming back here after all those years away? I assume obviously you were still visiting your parents here, but to come and live in the area and spend your time --

MA: Yeah, that's an interesting question that you pose. Because a lot of my colleagues and friends and my professional contacts, they said, "You're going where?" And I said, "South Jersey." They said, "Where is that?" I said, "What are you talking about South Jersey, the southern part of New Jersey?" They said, "Why would you be going to South Jersey?" I said, "Well, because that's where I was born and raised, my parents were still living there." And they said, "You're not going to live there, are you?" I said, "Yes, I am, I'm going to live there." So it was really, it caught a lot of my colleagues and friends, because they said, "You're not going to that really small, rural area are you?" I said, "Yes, I am." And so I never thought about the significance of the questioning. But when I did come back here, I did say, "Wow, this is how I grew up." But I know now that where I live now, I don't think my wife would be able to live here in rural South Jersey. So we did make the choice to live up closer to Philadelphia area and we're very comfortable here. But for me, I think it's really full circle. I have really appreciated coming back here, and I don't have any regrets. I have bumped into so many of my high school classmates and families that I grew up with here. I have returned to the JACL chapter, which I was as a youth when I was, my mother was one of the leaders and I was an adolescent. I was a youth member of the JACL chapter here, and so the Buddhist temple that I grew up in, seen all the people and the families that I grew up with, and many have deceased, but there is so much history here that I feel a part of. And so it was very easy for me to come back to this area and to kind of relate and to connect with not only my friends and relatives, but the community.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

RB: So I understand that the community has shrunk considerably at this point, but can you briefly summarize kind of the current state of the community? Like what are the entities, like the Seabrook Educational Cultural Center, the temple?

MA: You mean the Japanese American community?

RB: Yeah, Japanese American community groups.

MA: Yes. As I mentioned before, in 1945, when three hundred plus families came here, twenty-five hundred Japanese Americans, that population now is probably two dozen to twenty-four. We can identify these people by name. And it is sad to see that from my perspective, because I do have fond memories of all these various institution and activities. The one being the Seabrook Buddhist Temple, I remember they had the inauguration of that building in 1968, there probably was maybe 150 or so Japanese Americans there, and I think now they might have services that have a couple of dozen. And probably the attendees or three quarters Caucasian or other people that are learning about Buddhism, and so it's a different mix if you will. The Seabrook JACL, which was very vibrant, I can remember, we used to have an annual JACL picnic that had hundreds of people. We had a couple of hundred, three hundred people, and we would go to Parvin State Park, we would reserve this area, we would have activities for the children. I remember relishing in the races and all the door prizes that were given out, and it was just a full day of fun and just being able to just enjoy ourselves.

And then in 1994, the Seabrook Educational Cultural Center was founded. And the premise behind that, Mr. John Furume and Alan Nakamura wanted to establish a center where we can recognize the significance of this community and what it offered to Japanese Americans as they came to this area. So they wanted to insure that no one forgets that. So this museum was created in 1994, actually, next year will be thirty years, so hopefully there will be some sort of recognition and anniversary. They've asked me to plan that, but I've said, "We'll see." I'll see how full my schedule is. But I think it needs to be recognized. There is, I call it a three-legged stool. The Seabrook Buddhist Temple, the JACL, and the Seabrook Educational Cultural Center. Those three entities were kind of the three organizations that have given context to the Japanese American community here, and that allows the legacy to be continued. I was always hoping that the younger generations would pick up, that's not necessarily happening. I feel sad that's not happening. I don't quite understand why it's not happening. If you look at the Seabrook chapter, we're very long in the tooth, we're very senior. It's not just my mission, but we can't draw the attention and support of the younger generations, and I think that's clearly needed. Because if not, then it may become irrelevant, and unfortunately then it might not exist any longer, which has always been, I guess, a concern that I've had coming back to this area.

RB: And that the temple, too, does the cultural programs, right? The minyo dancers, odaiko.

MA: Yes. The two groups that you mentioned, the taiko group and the minyo dancers, they've continued this, I guess, legacy and the culture for the community. And they have challenges in trying to recruit more members as well to ensure that the groups still are existing.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

RB: So a few different things I want to touch on. I guess one question that I had, as you kind of came back here and spent more time with your parents in their twilight years, and you as an adult, were there certain things that you talked about related to the Japanese American experience, related to family history and identity, topics that you didn't necessarily broach when you were an adolescent living with them that maybe shaped your understanding of your understanding of your identity or your history?

MA: Yeah, that's a good question. I think what I tried to do was just listen and maybe prop some questions regarding camp life. Because I really wanted to fully understand and appreciate what they had gone through. And I think what's interesting for me, as we speak, my son is very interested to document this story and journey. So he and my daughter are on a mission, if you will, to kind of incorporate all the lessons learned that they've either had in conversations with their grandmother and father, Baachan and Jiichan. And they have energized me. So the three of us have taken a new mission, if you will, to try to understand the Asada and Taniguchi families and the journey that has transpired. And so as we were uncovering things about, whether it's camp life, and I always knew that my father's father did not join the family on the first trip to Poston. He was detained by the FBI and the Department of Justice facility. But my son found out through the Freedom of Information Act that my father had written the Attorney General of the United States at that time and asked where the location of his father was. Because he was sixteen, he was taking care of his ill mother, and he was wondering where his father was. So my son was able to locate these letters that were written to the attorney general in the National Archives. So there was a file about my grandfather with five or six letters that my dad had written. So it's really interesting to see what he wrote, his handwriting, and it's brought me back to, again, to think about how articulate he was at sixteen years old. No college, just graduated from high school, but concerned about how to take care of his mother. Because she is ill, but he doesn't know where his father is. So I can try to transcode myself. How would I have reacted, or try to take care of my mother? So this is very soul-searching, it's therapeutic, and it's allowed me to, in my final stages, allowed me to kind of become passionate about trying to assist my son and daughter to tell the story and to document it.

RB: Were your children interested in their Japanese American heritage in childhood, or is this something that sort of came to that later in adulthood?

MA: No, I think they were always interested from childhood, and I credit that to their mother, who was not Japanese, she was Caucasian. So my children are hapa, but they appreciated their Japanese heritage, and they've embraced it, and I think now, with the revelation of what my grandfather had gone through, they're even more interested about trying to put the pieces together. But they've always embraced their identity, they're proud of being hapa, but they're proud of being Japanese Americans. And they enjoy all the cultural things, whether it's festivals. We have a family reunion, the Asadas. I'm going to take my family to Japan, to Osaka in 2025, because my son, who is the State Department, had been the Deputy Commissioner General in Dubai for the World Expo. And so the next Expo in 2025 is going to be in Osaka, so we decided to make that as a focal point and hub, and we're going to all congregate there. And not only spend time there, but go to Hiroshima and hopefully see both sides of the families from their birth.

RB: That's terrific. So are you still in touch with your relatives?

MA: I am not. I think my son has reached out, and it's interesting, but he is very focused, and he's made the, I guess, he's reached out and he's made the contacts. I have not, so I know we have relatives there, but I have never reached out, but my son has. So he's made some contacts already.

RB: That will be very exciting. So I guess I could probably assume the answer to some of this, but do you feel that your parents instilled certain values in you that are linked to Japanese or Japanese or Japanese American culture? In part, do you think you then imparted those into your children?

MA: I think so, absolutely. I think whether it was a subtle way of growing up or whether it was indoctrinated in me, I understood from day one, even though they said not to think about myself, but to blend in. But I knew inside the house, I can even hear the words, you know, "never dishonor your family," it's always about honor and respect. And so I do feel the values that they instilled upon me, I incorporated it into my DNA, if you will, and then, in conjunction with that, with my military background, I think both of those, I tried to instill in my children. And so they were probably brainwashed from day one as well. But they're probably in better shape than I was when I was indoctrinated. But I could see the lineage if you will, the connection, and they're proud to be Japanese American, they're proud to be hapa, they're proud to participate and appreciate the Japanese culture in the United States.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

RB: So I have a couple more questions related to, I guess, the cultural entities of Seabrook. And I'm not sure if you know this information or not, because I think that some of this developed while you were living outside the Bay Area. But Shofuso has this sort of longstanding relationship with both the Seabrook minyo dancers and Odaiko. And I was just curious if you had any information about that. My understanding is that it was something that Ellen Nakamura had been involved with over the early decades that the Friends group was being led by the Nisei in the 1980s. It seems like there was a lot of conversation happening.

MA: Yeah, I never realized that. It did not, as you mentioned, I was away during that timeframe, so I did not know the connection between Seabrook and the Japanese American community and Shofuso. It doesn't surprise me that Ellen Nakamura was engaged and involved. She was a pioneer that, and a leader that was well-respected. And I'm sure she sought out trying to establish these relationships. And so I'm glad it happened, and I guess I'm also here to support furthering how we can establish those bridges, if you will.

RB: It seems that there was actually a kimono exhibition that was orchestrated by Seabrook Farms that Ellen was part of. And I'm just curious, since she seems to be a figure that has come up in our research as well, can you describe her a little bit and just talk about who she was as a person?

MA: Yes. Ellen Nakamura was one of the pioneers, one of three Japanese Americans, and she was, her family was incarcerated in Rohwer, I believe, in Arkansas. But in 1944, just prior to the influx of the Japanese Americans to come here, she and two other individuals, one was, the family name was Sasaki, and I forget the other name. But three of them came to Seabrook, and I forget the other name. But three of them came to Seabrook, again, this is in 1944, to see if what Mr. Seabrook was offering would be amenable to the Japanese Americans. Once they were released from the camps, each of them had twenty-five dollars in their pocket, but Mr. Seabrook was offering transportation to come here and work for him. He'd offered a job and a place to live. So that's pretty hard to beat when knowing that, if you had lived on the West Coast, that you were not going to go back to anything, probably. Or if you were, they'd face much discrimination and challenges. So Ellen Nakamura was instrumental. I called it the reconnaissance team. She and these two other individuals, they came here, they scoped out the area, they talked to... if it was not for Jack Seabrook or someone else in the Seabrook family about what is that you're offering, what is it you're expecting, what are the conditions, and what are your expectations? So I'm thinking she did all the hard legwork, came back with a favorable perspective and was able to pitch that so that other Japanese Americans were not nervous. It's going to be anxious enough to come here. But I think without her stamp of approval, that would have been a hard sell, so I think she was very instrumental. So that allowed the Japanese Americans to come, she was looked upon as a leader. She was a senior, I mean, not senior, she was very articulate. And so she was educated, she was able to understand the situation, and she was able to sort of be the go-between between the Issei and the Nisei who were younger and able to kind of understand what was going on. The Issei, again, would just kind of follow in these footsteps. So the Niseis, who kind of were leading, Ellen Nakamura was one of the leaders, so she was instrumental. And so, again, I mentioned the Seabrook Educational Cultural Center, she was a leader and established a co-founder of that institution. She was a major leader in the Buddhist Temple. So she was, within the community she was looked upon as someone who we could trust, and who was competent in executing those various responsibilities.

RB: Thanks for that.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

RB: And then just for your own part, I'm curious, how did you first hear about Shofuso? I'm just curious how it was introduced to you and then every year since? Do you see it as sort of a potential Japanese American community space or a place to educate people about Japan and something in between?

MA: Yes. You know, as a child or youth, I don't remember Shofuso growing up, per se. I do remember my mom saying that she did dance at a park in Philadelphia. And so that was the only recollection I had as a child. So not until I returned here in 2015 did I really know what Shofuso was about. And someone mentioned to me about they'd like to go visit the Japanese tea garden in Philadelphia, and I said, "Where is that?" They said, you don't know where that's, I was not familiar with it, and I felt sort of ashamed that I was so ignorant of this place. And so I made a trip out, and I said, "Wow, this is beautiful." I said, "Why is this not so well-known?" At least I didn't think it was well-known, I mean, I didn't know about it. But it could have been because I had not been here in this area after I graduated from high school. Because once I graduated from high school, I went to the military, as I mentioned. And I only visited my family on occasion, but I never kind of understood the community. So fast forward, now that know that Shofuso is here, I think it's a treasure, and I think that it's an opportunity to not only engage the local Japanese American, kind of Asian American community if you will. Not just Japanese Americans, but for the Asian American community and to also foster a relationship with the Japanese nationals, or businesses, that are coming here to the states. So I think that is a hub that has so much potential, not only culturally, but business-wise, and just allow the center to be kind of the focal point of a lot of activities.

RB: Thanks for that. I'm wondering if you could maybe reflect a little bit on the role that arts and culture played here in Seabrook specifically in terms of maybe being a convening point for the Japanese American community. I've seem photos from some of those Seabrook chow mein dinners that had the traditional Nihonbuyo and Bon Odori and other folk dancing that was done there. And, of course, the fact that the Obon has survived until today, and that there are practitioners, I think speaks to sort of the lineage that was developed. But from your perspective, just curious if you feel that arts and culture played an important role in that community element that was here in Seabrook?

MA: I think the influence that the arts had in this community was significant, especially for the Issei and Nisei. Not so much for my generation, but I do remember as a youth, we would have programs at the temple where we would have my father and his contemporaries that would be singing. And as a youth, I did not really kind of appreciate these male figures singing traditional Japanese songs. But everyone I could remember relishing it, even the Isseis, they'd be just clapping or just really kind of with respect just listening to them singing, and then the minyo dancers, and there were many minyo dancers. Not only the group, but individual ladies that were dancing. And it was very, very ceremonial, it was well-respected, and I miss those. I'm really thinking about how that came about. I wish that that could have continued. Now we do have Obon, yes, where it's group dancing, but you don't have those individual performances that I remember as a child growing up.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

RB: And I guess this probably happened when you were away, too, but I'm just kind of curious, do you know the extent to which the Seabrook JACL was involved with the redress movement?

MA: I think they were tangentially involved with the redress movement. I don't think they were active participants as I understand it. I've asked around, there might have been one or two individuals that went to Washington, but I'm not sure how engaged they were. I don't think that Seabrook, the members of the Seabrook JACL were that much on the forefront of the redress movement. They were very excited when it was happening, I remember the father said that things might be happening, there might be some compensation and might be some apology from the U.S. government. Then he was very, very excited about this transpiring.

RB: So thinking more about the chapter, as you know from your previous role as the EDC governor, chapters take a lot of different shapes and forms and some are more activist-oriented, others were more social oriented. Do you feel that the Seabrook chapter was more one or the other or a blend of those two?

MA: I believe the Seabrook chapter, again, and I equate this back to the seniority in the membership age. We are more interested in the cultural events of the heritage. On the political front, not so much. Even though I try to educate them on the issues at hand, whether it was with Black Lives Matter and the issues that happened after 9/11 about the attacks on the Muslim American community, they are aware of it, but I don't feel that they were ever going to get engaged like the Philadelphia chapter or the New York chapter or the Washington, D.C. chapter. And as the EDC governor, in my role, tried to understand and appreciate that. But at the same time, I felt it was my role to make sure that the chapters in EDC were going to get engaged in some context. But again, I refer back to the fact that if there was a millennial movement in the Seabrook chapter that would maybe pick up this baton and move forward with it, it would have helped out. But it's a challenge with the Seabrook chapter membership.

RB: It's interesting, too, thinking about the other chapters, and you see it because, with the exception of the Southeast chapter, it's also kind of spread out. The other chapters are all based in major metropolitan areas which changed the dynamics slightly. But again, from your perspective as someone that's worked closely with each of these groups, do you have a general sense of are the East Coast JACL chapters different in your opinion than how some of the chapters functioned in the West Coast? Are there more heavily populated JA areas?

MA: I do feel that there is a slight distinction between chapters on the East Coast versus the West Coast, and I think that might be because of the demographics that exist on the West Coast, whether it's Los Angeles or San Francisco or even in Seattle. You have a, sort of a population of JAs or Asian Americans that can rally for a particular topic or subject. It's not that it's not happening here on the East Coast, but as you mentioned, even though in Philadelphia, you have a core and you have a high level of interest, it's still a little bit spread out because of where they might be living. Washington, D.C., the same thing. Even though it's a hub of activity and a lot of interest and passion, those people are living not so close by. So it's not easy to get together, whether it's a picnic or a meeting. So even New York, I mean, I know those are very, very active people in the politics of things, but it's not easy to get together. So I think that's the challenge that I see on the East Coast chapter versus maybe the West Coast chapters.

RB: And maybe this is somewhat related, I guess, to the population density on West Coast areas that still had some Japantowns and other congregation hubs.

MA: Yes.

RB: So I guess segueing into another question around that, what is your thought on the differences if any between West Coast Japanese American and East Coast Japanese American identity? Do you feel that there are significant differences based on the experience of growing up in a region of the country that has fewer multigenerational Japanese Americans?

MA: Yeah, I think there is a distinction between the West Coast Asian Americans, and especially JAs that have either gone to school together or participated in sports leagues together or activities together. There is that connection, and then if it's a competitive organization, they're moving, they're traveling to compete against other organizations within, along the Coast there. So I think that has a different, I guess, connection, rather than on the East Coast. The East Coast is aware, they do have the opportunity to get together when there's a Asian American or JA event, very well supported. But it's not as easy as it is on the West Coast. I mean, it's almost like they're brothers and sisters that can just connect, talk. But it requires some effort here on the East Coast.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

RB: We're almost done. I just had a few kind of general reflection questions. So we've kind of touched on this in a couple different ways around discrimination, but I'm just curious. Like just generally, your entire life, do you feel that you�ve been treated differently than other people based on your identity as a Japanese American?

MA: I never felt that as I was growing up or in my career. But as I reflect upon it, I know that I tried to subdue any, I guess, reaction that would point me out. And the only reason I'm saying is that as I reflect on my personal military career, I think I was, almost to the extreme, that I was being deferential and not making a point, because I didn't want to stick out. And I think that I tried to listen to what my parents were saying, and that kind of ingrained upon me not to rock the boat. So I think that there were many opportunities that I could have been more vocal, even though I knew that, whether it was my leadership or whoever, that that is not really the course of path. But I was not, I guess, strong enough to make my voice heard. And so that is something that I've looked upon as, I could have been more local in that respect. I don't see that happening with my son and daughter. They are pretty quick to point something out. I mean, much to their chagrin sometimes, because they're not afraid to speak their word. So I'm maybe old school, and thinking that I was kowtowing too much, I think, to the establishment. I know that might sound harsh, but I think that that's what I kind of reflect upon on some things that, in the middle of the night, I wake up and I said, wow, you know what? I just saw this on the news and I sort of did the same thing, or not did anything. So maybe I should have been more vocal.

RB: And this might be related, actually, but do you think that intergenerational trauma is something that sort of exists within your own experience as a descendant of two parents that were in incarceration?

MA: I do think the intergenerational trauma exists. Not so much for me perhaps, because I did not experience the camp life, but clearly, even before PTSD was even kind of a name that we apply to these issues, but I do feel that the Issei and Nisei did have a lot of PTSD that was never shared or understood at that time. And it's a shame because we just never had the ability to understand what was happening, and never appreciated how that transferred over or carried over to other generations. Not so much, again, for me, but I know that I saw it in my father. He was a very stoic man, but I could see a lot of emotions.

RB: If there's maybe one thing that we can take from the Japanese American incarceration experience to bring that experience to future generations, what would those takeaways be from your perspective?

MA: You know, it's a sad statement that occurred to the Japanese Americans. And you hear the various refrains of "never again," "never forget." I hope that's true, but I'm not sure. So it requires the next generation to ensure that the stories are not forgotten, that any similar instances won't happen. Because democracy is very fragile, but it needs strong people to ensure that it does not get fractured. So I'm not sure if there's any particular lesson, but I do feel that what happened to the Japanese Americans during World War II can never be forgotten, and it has to be told, and it has to be in educational systems where people understand what happened. Because if not, I don't feel the local organizations, even the national organizations such as JACL is going to be effective in getting the message out to ensure that it's throughout... it needs to be incorporated curriculum, I guess, is what I'm saying, so people will never forget this.

RB: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's pretty much all the questions that I had. Were there any other things that we didn't discuss that you think we should?

MA: No, I appreciate the opportunity, and I know that this is a joint effort between Densho, which I highly revere, and I hope that the JACS resources and the opportunity that JACL has put this together has allowed this program to capture a lot of the stories from individuals. I myself never was incarcerated, so I'm only giving you a perspective like thirdhand or secondhand. But I would like to hear the testimonies of those that you were able to capture, because those are the real heroes.

RB: Great. Well, thanks again for your time, I really appreciate it.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2023 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.