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LG: Shifting a little bit, I want to talk about your involvement with the JACL. So when did you first get involved with this organization?

AN: Well, I was only peripherally involved through the reparations process, which took place in the late '80s, early '90s. I was aware of, was supportive in terms of being a member and paying dues, but not active. And then I got this letter in 1989 or '90, from this commission, and telling me to submit it so that I would get reparations. So that's when it caught my attention, being involved in JACL was more than just name. Anyway, and so I followed that and then I got a check for twenty thousand dollars and all this stuff in 1990, '91. And then in 1997, there was a JACL national convention in Philadelphia. And at that point, I had gotten acquainted with a number of people who were active within the chapter of Philadelphia. And so they sucked me into doing some odd jobs at the convention, taking pictures of this and that and doing odd jobs. So I got involved and I thought, "Okay," and it just coincided with a retirement process, I guess, is the way to put it, in which my employer decided that I needed to be reassigned. And the reassignment boiled down to being given a job which was kind of a desk job, up until the time I was doing management, R&D. And so I figured they want me out of here. And so I negotiated the retirement with compensation for various things, and took it. And people that had, I encountered in the JACL heard about it, they said, "Oh, you've got much more time. Here's a committee, here's a this," and I started to get involved with the JACL. So it mushroomed, literally. And with my grandson, when he heard that I got involved with all this, he used to joke with me and said, "Oppa, I thought you retired. You sound like you got a new job." [Laughs] And I said "Yeah, sort of." Anyway, it's been that way since, and it started with this convention. And I got to know a number of people like the Uyeharas and so on who were, of course, one of the founders of the Philadelphia JACL chapter. And so that's been, that was a great experience.

I also got to know Judge Bill Marutani. And I found out about his involvement in a, what's the case before the Supreme Court? Loving v. Virginia, are you familiar with that? Yeah. He was asked by the NAACP to make an oral testimony before the Supreme Court. About two years ago, I accidentally found a website link to a recording, and I could hear his voice in front of the judges of the Supreme Court arguing to do away with anti-miscegenation laws. Total surprise. Anyway, at the time I knew him, of course, that had already passed, that was in '67 or so, when the Supreme Court decision was being made. And so when I met him, he was basically retired also as a judge. And anyway, it was interesting to know somebody like that.

So I did what I could, and before I could say yes or no, things were just piling up. Do this, do that, do that, join this committee, join that committee. And eventually it extended into the district and to national groups and committees and commissions and so on, lost track of all these things.

LG: Were you involved in any other Japanese American groups or organizations in the area?

AN: Well, sort of off and on, I forgot how I got exposed to the JAGP, the Japanese Association of Greater Philadelphia, which is basically not an American organization, it's an organization of immigrants, mostly. The non-Japanese members are usually spouses, white spouses largely, of Japanese immigrants. And so it's a different kind of environment, I guess, is a way to put it. And I got involved back in the early 2000s, and then I faded away and then about three years ago, I got, I forgot who I ran into, they arranged for me to join the board again. So I've been involved with them, and my rationale for participating is to, on occasion, work with the idea of bringing in a... what's the word? A Nisei or Sansei point of view into the cultural environment of the JAGP. They don't realize that they have a certain limitation, whatever, culturally. For example, there's an ingrained xenophobia in the Japanese culture about certain things, and as an American, third-generation, I can see what the limitations and the impact it has on the wider culture in the States. And so I haven't had too many occasions to touch on that, but that's what's keeping me going. Otherwise, I have less of a motivation to be part of it, because there are so many things that... for example, in their board meetings, a number of them lapsed into side conversations all in Japanese. So I'd have to raise my hand on zoom and say, "Please switch to English only." But the other members who are especially immigrants just unconsciously diverged into Japanese. I find that very awkward because I don't understand adult language in Japanese. Anyway, I haven't had too many occasions yet where I would basically utter or pronounce or push a different viewpoint on an issue which is more Japanese American than Japanese. But that's the only thing that's keeping me connected so far.

LG: Earlier you mentioned reparations. Were you directly involved in the redress movement?

AN: No, that all went by, except for applying. Because as a victim, I had to follow a formal, there was a whole standard questionnaire and so on. I was aware of it happening, but other than that, I was not directly involved at that point, because I was more focused on my working career.

LG: What did it mean for you to get the check and the apology?

AN: Well, I sort of took it in stride. What I've done since then, believe it or not, is donate a lot of the money to the JACL. So for the last twenty years, I think I've been averaging about a thousand dollars a year in membership dues, and I've gone through almost twenty thousand dollars, all donated to the JACL. There were a few people that I know that donated it correctly when they got it, but I didn't know what to do, so I just started to donate once a year, and I've been doing that for twenty years.

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