<Begin Segment 1>

HH: Today is October 23rd, Sunday. We're recording this interview today in Medford Lees, New Jersey. Hello. What is your full name?

GO: My full name is on the birth certificate it's Mitsuyasu Oye, but the teacher couldn't pronounce my first name, so I've been known as George M. Oye.

HH: George M. Oye. And what is your wife's name?

GO: My wife's name is Kazuye Yasumoto Oye.

HH: I see. And how many siblings do you have?

GO: I have siblings, four, some of them are deceased. Do you want all the names?

HH: Yes.

GO: Okay. My older sister, Kikuye, female, she's eighty-one. And then younger sister Mitsuye Tamae, and brother, younger brother Yoshinobu. And another sister deceased at the time of my mother's birth, her birth, died at five months. And my half sister -- because my mother died at the same year -- my half sister died at the age of fifty-three.

HH: And as far as order of birth was concerned, where did you fall in?

GO: I was second.

HH: Second born.

GO: Yes.

HH: Let's see. And where were you born?

GO: I was born in Florin, California.

HH: I see. At this point, could you give a brief history of how your family came to the United States?

GO: My father first came to Hawaii, and then decided to come to the States in 1902, I believe he said, he came to America. And after ten years, went back to Japan, got married, came back another ten years. There were four of us born in this country and we all, he decided to go back in 1922, so all of us went back to Japan at that time.

HH: I see.

GO: And I was seven years old.

HH: Seven years old. Obviously you didn't remain in Japan. How did you get, return to the United States?

GO: Well, I still remember some part of America. Of course, it's a materialistic [inaudible] and that kind of thing, probably. But I always wanted to come back to America. So after finishing middle school, high school in Japan, my father encouraged me to get further education, but I wanted to come back. So it was not a good time to come back, but my father allowed me to come back in. So I came back in 1932, ten years, after ten years in Japan.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

HH: And when you came back to the United States, how old were you?

GO: I was seventeen.

HH: Seventeen.

GO: And that was in the middle of the Depression, as you may know.

HH: If it's 1932, that would be in the middle of the Depression. And in what town or city, area did you live in at that point?

GO: Fortunately, my father's old friends, two families in Florin, agreed to become a guardian for me because I had no wealth and I came back alone. And so that's how I landed. I was detained at immigration at Angel Island for a few days, but with their assurance, I was able to land.

HH: How would you describe this town of Florin, California. What kind of town, was it industrial, agricultural?

GO: Florin is agricultural, predominately Japanese. And for that reason there was a segregated school, but it was an area where probably nobody wanted to develop into the agricultural land, but many Japanese pioneers went in and cultivated and turned it into a very productive agricultural land, primarily grapes and strawberries.

HH: Was that close to the wine area?

GO: Not... it's more of a table grapes.

HH: I see.

GO: Tokay grapes.

HH: When you came back at age seventeen, did you work, go to school, or what did you do?

GO: My ambition was to, if some family will take me in as a schoolboy, to get room and board and then continue my education. But in midst of depression, nobody could afford such luxury. So the first thing I did was try to earn as much money as I can working with the farm laborers earning nineteen cents an hour picking grapes and so forth.

HH: You were a farm laborer?

GO: Farm laborer, very difficult, hard work.

HH: Picking grapes in Florin.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

HH: Did you ever get a chance to go to school eventually?

GO: Eventually. I actually went to pick grapes in Lodi, California, and after grape season was over, we came back to my guardians, the Yamasakis and they allowed me to stay with them, they're just a couple. And so I started to go back to school to pick up my English, which was lost while I was in Japan, so I started high school again at El Grove High School.

HH: This was a public high school that you went to?

GO: Public high school.

HH: I see. And how many years did you go to this high school?

GO: Well, I was in junior year when I ruined my health and I was compelled to take a rest. So that's where my high school education was interrupted.

HH: I see.

GO: But while I was recuperating, there was a chance to take a business college course. So I was able to do that and also work at the institution where I was confined.

HH: Oh, and where was this business college?

GO: This was under the State Bureau of Vocational Rehabilitation.

HH: I see.

GO: So it was one-to-one kind of situation, private tutoring and accounting and business English and typing and that kind of thing.

HH: Ah, I see. So this was a very intimate kind of education that you received.

GO: And then while there, he encouraged me to take a state civil service test, which I did, and fortunately passed. So I must have passed pretty high, because I must have passed pretty high because right away, they asked me to come for interviews, so I accepted the position in the accounts and disbursement office of the state department of agriculture in Sacramento, that was in 1942.

HH: What kinds of discrimination if any did you encounter in that part of California in that time in your life?

GO: Well, I remember as a child when we are going to Sacramento and we had a big Studebaker. Because my father had a partner, Morishige family, so he needed a big car. So it was a huge Studebaker, and I remember, as the anti-Japanese feeling gets worse and worse, tomatoes were thrown at us and so forth, but nothing physically dangerous. And after coming back, during that time, I was sort of in sheltered surroundings, so I didn't feel any discrimination at that time.

HH: Do you recall whether there's difficulty getting served on public services and housing or were you restricted to certain areas?

GO: I was still alone at that time, so I was staying in a hotel alone and eating out in Sacramento, so that I could be close to my work.

HH: Would it be fair to say then that this is the kind of life that you were leading up to the point of the beginning of the Second World War?

GO: Yes, and I was hoping that this may develop into a career, because you could take on taking another test and advance.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

HH: And you were accepted into the civil service, California Civil Service?

GO: Yes, state civil service. But the war came, so you probably heard about the, both of us were eventually fired. In the meantime, my sisters came from Japan.

HH: Can you explain that? So your sister went back with the family, and you were the only one that came back the first time?

GO: Yes.

HH: How did your sister get back then?

GO: After a couple of years, my guardian, Yamasakis, knew a young college graduate Japanese. He wasn't so young, but despite the fact that he has college degrees, in that kind of climate, he couldn't get a job, so he was working as a farm laborer. And they felt my sister might make a good life for this man, and it developed into a marriage. So she came and married this man, his name was Sasaki Fukuji. At that time later on he changed his name to Fuji. So I was, they were the only relatives, and so I wanted to be close to them.

HH: This sounds like an arranged marriage, is that correct?

GO: Sort of, yes. Of course, I have to say okay, otherwise I don't think she could have come. [Laughs]

HH: So the two principals did not know each other.

GO: No. Of each other.

HH: They knew of each other but did not know each other.

GO: At least in my guardian, and this man came from the same place in Japan. So he knew of this man, or had more interest than just any old man, or young man.

HH: When they arrived, did they also live in Florin?

GO: Yes, they lived in Florin. And because of their language advantage, he was working as secretary to a Japanese Association, helping any one Nisei interpreter, social service kind of work. As a result, he was on a blacklist of the FBI, so when the war started, he was the first one to be picked up. In the meantime, my sister had many children. In fact, fifth one on its way, so she was pregnant at that time.

HH: So when the war broke out, she really had four children with a fifth imminent?

GO: That's right. And a brother-in-law, we didn't know where he was, of course, at first. So I gave up my state job and went back to Florin to live with the families so that they needed every bit of help. In the meantime, evacuation became imminent, so I have to help them. And also they had a business, tofu-making business, so I learned how to make tofu and for a while I was doing that, too. But when evacuation became imminent, we have to get rid of business and get rid of property with five children. In the meantime, fifth one was born getting ready for evacuation. When we were told that we could carry only what we can carry in our both hands. That was a very trying time.

HH: By the way, did you know how to make tofu before?

GO: No. No, I learned.

HH: On the job training.

GO: Yes. But I never followed that too deeply.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

HH: Well, can you give a brief account of what happened from that point on until you arrived in Philadelphia? You went from Florin to some kind of assembly center?

GO: That's right. We were first taken to Fresno Assembly Center, I think it was May of 1942. No, yes, '42. And then stayed there until fall, October or November, and then we were transferred to so-called relocation camp, which was Jerome, Arkansas. So that was about four or five days' trip on the train.

HH: And from Jerome?

GO: Fresno to... yes. In the meantime, as the government started to encourage people to relocate, so many camps started to have empty rooms, and also government needed a place for German POWs. And they decided to turn our camp into a German POW camp. So we were scattered among the remaining nine camps at that time, and the family decided to go to Arizona, Gila, Arizona. So I moved with my sister's family.

HH: Many people in these camps had some kind of job. Did you have a job in Rohwer or in Gila?

GO: Oh, yes. Even at the assembly center in Fresno, anyone working for the state prior to evacuation was more or less encouraged or drafted to work in the office, so I was working in the mess and lodging office. And at Jerome, we had more choice, and I volunteered to look for a job to work out in the farm. Because in Jerome, the farming crew went outside of the camp to farm every day, and stayed out there all day and then they came back. And so I worked as a senior timekeeper for the agriculture crew, and they gave me a pickup truck to go to the farm, and in the farm they gave me a horse to visit about six or eight crews that I had. So that was an interesting job.

HH: Was it a fact that you were literate in Japanese and English?

GO: It helped, but that wasn't the prerequisite of that job. But I worked as an, I was in an accounting office, and that may have helped. So I was getting top pay, it was the same as doctors. [Laughs]

HH: And that's the other thing, large sum of nineteen dollars?

GO: Nineteen dollars a month, yes.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

HH: Now, when you left, eventually you left Gila. Where did you go?

GO: From Gila, in the meantime, while we were in Jerome, my brother-in-law and two others came out to Seabrook to Seabrook, New Jersey, frozen food plant to see whether that would make a good place for evacuees to come out to. And they went back, they looked into public sentiment, school situation, housing, employment, all aspects of the community life. And they went back with a very favorable report. As a result, many came out to Seabrook and just recently they celebrate the fiftieth year. And then I'll have a center showing all the resource materials in those days.

HH: So when your sister and brother-in-law moved to Seabrook, New Jersey, did you go with them to Seabrook?

GO: I wanted to be near them. So I went to Seabrook but I had no desire to work there, and so I was looking for employment in Philadelphia.

HH: And what kind of employer did you eventually find?

GO: At that time, the WRA office thought the most suitable job for me was to teach Japanese, or be a Japanese instructor because they had a special Japanese language school at the University of Pennsylvania. So I started to work as a Japanese instructor, but working with a linguist. And that was the army's special training course so they were very bright kids.

HH: So how many years did you do that?

GO: I was kept until almost the end. Because as the war ended, that program ended also that year. But it was an interesting time.

HH: And what did you turn to after that period in your life?

GO: Well, while I was working at the University of Pennsylvania, I didn't like to stay in a rooming house. So I was looking for some family I could earn room and board and then commute. Because the workload wasn't heavy, and just at that time there was a couple looking for someone like me to stay, because they did a lot of traveling and his wife's house wasn't too good, so he felt that somebody could help her around the house, help her with the housework and do some garden work. So one weekend, they invited me to come. So I stayed overnight and they felt that they could stand me, and I felt that might be a good place for me to live. So I started to live in Wallingford, of all places, which is a very nice living community, and commuted from there to the University of Pennsylvania until I got married.

HH: Oh, [inaudible] that needed to be gone into. One is you said that your position at Penn ended when the war ended, and you did something else after that.

GO: Yes.

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<Begin Segment 7>

HH: And then you got married. Let's take them in that order. About your career, what happened there first?

GO: The person, the family with whom I lived, was Homer and Edna Morris and he was the, one of the administrative staff of the American Friends Service Committee. And while there, I started to attend the Quaker meeting and I immediately felt that this is my future home, religious-wise. And so I was aware of the work of the American Friends Service Committee. And just as my work at the University of Pennsylvania ended, there was a job at the American Friends Service Committee to do the record-keeping for all the relief shipments, which was a tremendous job at that time for the Quaker organization. So I started to work as the bookkeeper for the material aids program of the American Friends Service Committee, which as you know, I expected that not to last too long, but it lasted until my retirement.

HH: Which was how many years?

GO: I was there for thirty-four years until my retirement. And after retirement, I went in part-time to manage the credit union office for another nine years.

HH: That was a long time for a temporary job.

GO: I know. The nature of the work is emergency relief, so I never thought... so in the meantime, from bookkeeper, I ended up as an assistant director, and I think it was 1958, they asked me to direct the program when the director left. And thought a bad thing, that wasn't what I wanted to do, so I ended up directing that program.

HH: Were you director of the material aids?

GO: Yes. And toward the end of that, my period, business manager of the national office had a heart attack, and then he died. So I was also [inaudible] manager of the American Friends Service Committee as well.

HH: That was a very busy part of your life.

GO: Very challenging at the time. And while I had a chance to visit the distribution areas of the American Friends Service Committee, so in 1966, I took about, over twenty thousand mile trip. At that time it was [inaudible] was the main area postwar, and Belgian Congo and the Middle East, and on the way back to America, I came back by way of Japan and I visited Japan, what is that? From 1932 to '66, so thirty-four years without seeing anybody, any of the relatives. So that was a very moving experience.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

HH: Backtracking a little bit, at what point in your life did you become married?

GO: Let's see. That was... I was with the American Friends Service Committee then after the university job ended. And so I was, that was 1946, November of 1946.

HH: And this person you got married to, where did the two of you meet?

GO: Well, while I was visiting my sister's family at Seabrook, New Jersey, my brother-in-law found out that there's another family from the same village in Japan that came, a Yasumoto family. And I guess Mr. Yasumoto and my brother-in-law probably went to school, same school in Japan. And they had many children, and I don't know whether you know my sister or not, but she started to ask me a question, said, "Do you intend to ever get married?" I was thirty then. And I said, "I have no intention of not getting married." [Laughs] So they thought one of the Yasumoto girls might make a good wife for me. So that was the beginning. And in the meantime, Homer Morris used to say, "George, seems like your visit to your sister is becoming more and more frequent." [Laughs]

HH: I see.

GO: So when we married, we got married in Morris's living room. So they, when the children came, they started to call children their grandson, and we developed a very close relationship with that family.

HH: Oh, so that brings us to the next question about your children. You have how many children?

GO: Well, we ended up with three, three boys. And two of them are married now.

HH: How old are they and what are they doing? Starting from the oldest.

GO: Well, oldest one is forty-five, and he's the director of the Center for International Studies as well as professor of political science at MIT in Cambridge. Next son is about eighteen months younger, is Robert Kei is the Japanese name. Incidentally, Kenneth's Japanese name is Akito. And Bob is at UCLA, went to medical school at Stanford, and got two degrees while he was there. So he's at UCLA medical center.

HH: He's a faculty member there?

GO: Yes, still teaching, I think, not as heavy. Also much administrative responsibility as well. And the youngest one is Daniel Morito. He's not married, he's in Westchester, Pennsylvania, working at a security coordinator at a big television advertising outfit.

HH: Okay. And at this point, how many grandchildren do you have?

GO: So far there's only one, Ken and Willa. Our granddaughter is now five and a half.

HH: And they are the ones, that family lives in the Boston area?

GO: Right, they just recently purchased a house in Wellesley.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

HH: That completes one phase of this interview as far as history is concerned. But the next phase would be some questions about some things that you might be feeling about your life in Philadelphia. For instance, after you moved from Gila to Philadelphia, and the things you talked about, the things you did here, What kinds of discrimination if any did you encounter in this area?

GO: Well, I guess I was a little different. Because as far as employment is concerned, you couldn't have picked a better organization to work with than a Quaker organization because they were very helpful to us even during that time, it wasn't a popular thing to help Japanese Americans when we are considered as an enemy of the United States. So in that way we were lucky, but as the children start to go to school, the usual kids picking on our kids saying, "Chin Chin Chinaman," or whatever it is, but nothing too serious. But when I bought a car and tried to get insurance, they claimed that the one company, the [inaudible] said that I can't have insurance because Japanese have a very bad record of not paying premium. Of course, during evacuation, who could pay the... so that kind of discrimination I faced, but I was more or less, was not in a typical situation where others may have suffered.

HH: But your children encountered some?

GO: Some.

HH: But nothing that were, I guess, extremely heavy, but they knew that discrimination existed.

GO: I remember one case, when our second son, one kid was picking on our son. But an older high school kid on the same bus, who happened to be a neighbor in Moylan, said, just took, put his arm around our son and said, "Don't pick on him, he's my friend," and that was the end of that. So an incident like that helped.

HH: What do you think of the term "model minority" and did you have any reaction to it?

GO: I don't have any reaction one way or the other.

HH: It was often used to describe Asian Americans, "model minority."

GO: I don't think we deserved that, I don't know. Because of our cultural background, that may have helped. Because when were younger, we are told that we have to bear the unbearable, "Don't blow up," and gaman and all that, all those things. So I was conscious of that, "Don't do anything shameful that may be hurting your family name or something like that." That was constantly on my mind, we are brought up that way.

HH: And those are the, some of the core values of being a Japanese, not only a Japanese American, but being Japanese.

GO: That's right.

HH: All right. Is there anything that I did not ask that you think I should have asked during this interview?

GO: I think you did a pretty good job, Herb. [Laughs]

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.