[Correct spelling of certain names, words and terms used in this interview have not been verified.]
<Begin Segment 1>
HH: This is Sunday, October 23rd. We are recording this project today at Medford Lees, New Jersey. What is your full name?
LI: My full name is Lily Masae Inazu.
HH: And what was the name of your husband?
LI: My husband's name was Albert Taizo Inazu.
HH: How many siblings do you have? Brothers and sisters do you have?
LI: I have three sisters and one brother.
HH: And how many children do you have and what are their ages?
LI: I have five children. And my oldest is fifty-eight, and the second son would be fifty-two. And the third son would be fifty-one, and fifty... and forty-nine, my daughter would be forty-nine.
HH: I understand that one of your sons is no longer alive.
LI: Yes, my oldest son had died, thirteen years ago.
HH: Do you have any grandchildren?
LI: Yes, I have eight grandchildren.
HH: And how many grandsons and daughters do you have?
LI: I have four granddaughters and four grandsons.
HH: By any chance, do you have any great-grandchildren?
LI: No, I don't have any great-grandchildren.
HH: Where were you born?
LI: I was born in San Juan Bautista, California.
HH: And what is your present age?
LI: My present age is eighty-one.
HH: And your parents' names? What were your parents' names?
LI: My father's name was Toramatsu Yoshimura, and my mother's name was Hidetai Yoshimura.
<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 2>
HH: Can you describe the town that you were born in California?
LI: The times I had in...
HH: Town.
LI: The town?
HH: What kind of town was it? An industrial town, a fishing town?
LI: No, it was a farming district.
HH: Whereabouts in California was it located?
LI: It would be in northern California.
HH: That would be around San Francisco?
LI: Yes, about sixty miles from San Francisco.
HH: What kind of school did you attend back then?
LI: Well, kindergarten on to high school in San Juan Bautista.
HH: And how old were you when you arrived in Philadelphia?
LI: I arrived in Philadelphia when I was thirty-two.
HH: And at what point in your life did you become married?
LI: I was married in Los Angeles, 1935.
HH: 1935. And what was your husband's occupation at that time?
LI: He worked as a floor manager for Venice Celery. It was a, like a vegetable... well, factory, I guess you'd call it.
HH: And what kind of education did he have before he went into this kind of work?
LI: Well, he went to University of Berkeley in Berkeley.
HH: What did he study at the University of California at Berkeley?
LI: Engineer, mechanical engineer.
HH: When the internment, notice of internment arrived, what kinds of complications did you have, or did you have any complications in moving from your home in California to your assembly center?
LI: Well, when we have to move, we did not go into an assembly center because of my grandfather and my in-laws, and the children were all small. At that time, my third son was only six months old, so we didn't have to go to the internment camp. But we were about the last one that went to the camp, were sent to the camp.
HH: If I understand you correctly, you're saying you did not have to go to an assembly center, but you did have to go to an internment camp.
LI: Yes.
<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 3>
HH: Did your husband have very clear feelings about internment when this happened?
LI: Well, at first he didn't... you know, it was the thing to do, because we were told to do. But as he worked while in camp, well, he kind of changed his mind about it.
HH: Do you recall some of the things that you said?
LI: Well, what he said was he was Japanese American and he didn't think that we should be in camp, we have to go to the internment camp.
HH: Did he say anything in public?
LI: Well, with fellow members that he worked with at the office.
HH: So it was the area in which he spoke in small groups.
LI: Right, uh-huh. Just in the office like, but he didn't speak loud about it.
HH: Did he develop any kind of reputation because of this?
LI: No, no.
HH: I understand that, for whatever reason, various people in Washington, D.C. eventually came into the internment camp. By the way, which internment camp were you in?
LI: Manzanar.
HH: Manzanar, to interview him?
LI: Yes.
HH: Do you recall why you selected him for an interview?
LI: Well, everybody had to be interviewed.
HH: Then it would be everyone, the whole camp?
LI: Yes.
HH: And what was the purpose of these interviews?
LI: Well, they just wanted to know, you know, how we all felt about it after so many came in to see what was going on in the camp. I truly don't know too many details because I was too busy with the family. And it so happened that they were picking out all the people from one barrack to another barrack to another barrack in the whole section where we were staying, and had the interview.
HH: Do you suspect that your husband was very clear about his position regarding internment of Japanese Americans during these interviews?
LI: Well, he has never been to Japan. Only father and mother were from Japan, but being a Japanese American, he's never gone out of California, and he thought that, you know, he just wanted to know why we were sent to internment camp.
HH: Do you suspect that, do you say this, were there feelings of anger?
LI: No, he wasn't angry or anything. He wasn't angry about it, but it's just that it was so much hardship with all our family, what I have to go through with all the children and all that. And naturally, he had to give up all his, you know, work and his surroundings, and we did, too, to go to the camp. And he thought it was unnecessary for us being in, you know, Japanese American, why we have to go to the camp. That was just his feeling, he wanted to express that.
HH: Lily, what happened to people after they were interviewed? Were there some kind of consequence or result of these interviews? Did something happen?
LI: No. I felt that everything was just quiet. They didn't realize what was going on in Tule Lake or anything, it was another camp that we all have to go. So, you know, I was so busy with the children and my in-laws that I didn't nothing of it. All he told me was we were going to go to Tule Lake, for what reason, I didn't even know.
HH: As you look back on that part of your life now, do you suspect that they chose people for Tule Lake because of things that they found out during the interview?
LI: I imagine that's what it was, because I wasn't included in the interview or anything, so I truly don't know what went on.
HH: So only the men were interviewed, is that correct?
LI: Well, some of them had like, there were quite a bit of Kibeis there. And naturally, whoever could speak and understand English was interviewed.
HH: So then only the men interviewed?
LI: No, some women were, too, yes.
HH: But if there happened to be a husband and wife, then only the husband would be interviewed, is that correct?
LI: Yeah, unless they asked the wife to go along for the interview.
<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 4>
HH: And so your husband expressed some of his concerns about internment, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like because of the things that he said, he was selected to go to Tule Lake?
LI: Yes.
HH: What were conditions like in Tule Lake?
LI: [Laughs] When we got to Tule Lake, our section was really fenced in, rather fenced in and all. But we had a terrible time trying to locate where we were supposed to go, because everything was such a commotion during that time, probably because the people that were there before in Tule Lake didn't want the group from Manzanar going to Tule Lake. So we have quite a problem at that time, which, I mean, I truly don't know what the problem was or anything.
HH: Lillian, are you saying that before you got there, there was a lot of excitement at Tule Lake before you arrived?
LI: Before, yes.
HH: And when you arrived there, the way you described it, it sounds like you were also in a separate area of Tule Lake, fenced off from the rest.
LI: Yes, fenced off from the rest. My folks lived on the other end of the camp, but they were not allowed to see us or come when we went there, until a certain amount of time. Then they were allowed to come and visit us, and I was able to visit them, but for a while, we were restricted from visiting any of the families on the other side.
HH: Did you have, moving, did you have a sense of being a prisoner at that time?
LI: Yes.
HH: And even more so than...
LI: Right, than Manzanar.
HH: Yes. And did you have any idea why you deserved that kind of treatment?
LI: Well, truly, when we got there, the convenience was very poor. It wasn't like Manzanar, and we thought that they were treating us as though we were a group going, you know, because we have to go there, and we weren't treated that well, but we survived through all that until we were all settled there.
HH: As I understand this, you were, your family happened to be Japanese Americans.
LI: Yes.
HH: Yet you were made to feel as if you were enemies when you went to Tule Lake?
LI: Yes.
HH: Is that correct?
LI: Yes.
HH: But you did not understand why you were being treated this way.
LI: Yes. I truly didn't know what was going... really, I didn't know what was going on there.
HH: At this point, how many children did you have?
LI: At this point, I have four children.
HH: Four children.
LI: So that means that when I left home, I had, my third son was born. He was only five months. The second camp we went, my third son was seven months. Then when I moved out here, my daughter was six months. So I had babies the whole trip, the three trips I had to make.
HH: When you were living in Tule Lake, you had three children, is that correct?
LI: No, four children.
HH: Four children. The oldest being about...
LI: He was ten years old, and youngest being about five months old, and youngest being about five months old.
HH: Right.
LI: Because my fourth son was born in Manzanar.
HH: I see.
LI: And my daughter was born in Tule Lake.
HH: I see. You went to school -- going back in history now -- you went to school in San Juan Bautista?
LI: Right.
HH: But you were married in Los Angeles.
LI: Right, in 1935.
HH: '45?
LI: '35.
HH: '35. Did you move to Los Angeles, then become married, or did you get married and then move to Los Angeles?
LI: No, I was still living in... at that time, we were living in Gilroy, only about twenty miles from San Juan Bautista.
HH: Yes.
LI: And I married and moved to Los Angeles.
HH: Did you work when you were in Los Angeles?
LI: No.
<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 5>
HH: Do you remember how old you were when you arrived in Philadelphia?
LI: Thirty-two.
HH: Thirty-two. How would you describe the economic condition of your family when you were growing up in San Juan Bautista?
LI: My father was a farmer, so I think we had a good life there while we were growing up.
HH: But your father had his own farm?
LI: He was leasing the land there in San Juan Bautista.
HH: Around Gilroy, they grew a lot of garlic.
LI: Yes.
HH: Is that the kind of crop that your father farmed?
LI: Right.
HH: How did you come about to decide to Philadelphia as your East Coast destination?
LI: Well, my husband being an engineer, he couldn't find a job in California in his line of work. And my brother-in-law was living in Philadelphia, and at that time he was working here, and he wanted my husband to come out here and find a job here in Philadelphia.
HH: Wow. Can you give a brief account of what your life was like when you first arrived in Philadelphia and how you settled in?
LI: It was, I remember we spent Thanksgiving on the train with all my children and my father-in-law and my invalid mother-in-law. It was a real hard trip coming out here, especially it was in November, and the weather was so bad. I remember when we got to Chicago, and so two foot of snow there, and I didn't think I was going to survive through all the weather condition here in the East Coast.
HH: Do you remember where you first lived when you arrived in Philadelphia?
LI: Yes, we lived with my brother-in-law and my sister-in-law in West Philadelphia.
HH: How long did it take your husband to find work?
LI: It took a long time. He did get a job with Westinghouse, but they were on a long strike, so he had to find other jobs. And he didn't know too much about the mechanic, but he even went there and did some work at the mechanic, being a mechanic for, oh, about two or three months. And finally...
HH: Was he an auto mechanic?
LI: Yes.
HH: When you arrived in Philadelphia, was the Second World War still in progress?
LI: Yes, it was. Uh-huh.
HH: All right. And did you have any difficulties being a Japanese American in a city that was, a part of America that was at war with Japan?
LI: No, I didn't find that it was here at the East Coast. I think everybody really treated us very well.
<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 6>
HH: And what school did your children attend when they arrived in Philadelphia?
LI: My oldest attended the West Philadelphia Huey School in West Philadelphia. And the rest, the two, now only there's about four years' difference there, so just the oldest was attending school at that time until they attended the kindergarten. And then the grade school was Huey School, I remember.
HH: The name of the school was the Tuey School?
LI: Huey, H-U-E-Y, yes.
HH: This was in West Philadelphia?
LI: Yes.
HH: Your one son attended, but as your children grew up, did you remain in Philadelphia?
LI: We remained there for, I imagine, I think it was eleven or twelve years there.
HH: In West Philadelphia?
LI: Yes. And my husband worked for Westinghouse. By that time the strike was over, and he worked for Westinghouse.
HH: By this time he was working as an engineer?
LI: Yes. And then in later years, after nine years, he changed over to Atlantic, and he worked there as an engineer also.
HH: The Atlantic refinery?
LI: Yes.
HH: And your children, doing that, there's twelve years in which you lived in West Philadelphia, where they eventually became the age of going to school.
LI: Yes. My oldest attended Bartram High School in West Philadelphia. And then the rest of them went to Huey, and then on into high school West Philadelphia High School.
HH: West Philadelphia High School or Bartram?
LI: Yeah, Bartram.
HH: And what did they do after they finished high school?
LI: Alan attended the Philadelphia Museum, College of Art. And that year, my husband died, and Donald was ready to enter college. He went to Eastern Baptist College in Wayne, Philadelphia.
HH: Was your husband suffering from some kind of health condition?
LI: Yes, he was.
HH: And what kind of condition?
LI: Well, he had high blood pressure, and it had affected his kidney, but he's still working for Atlantic Refinery until his death. Before that, after I think it was in 1954, we felt that we had to move to a place where the children had more room to play. And living in West Philadelphia, there isn't any park or any place where they could play. So we moved to New Jersey in '54, and my husband died in '58.
HH: Let's see. So your other children, they were a little older at that time, weren't they? By the time you moved to New Jersey?
LI: Yes. Alan had graduated, and Donald and Norman and Willie attended Palmyra High School, and Barbara attended the Spring Garden grade school in Palmyra.
HH: I see. Do your children live in this area now, around the Philadelphia area?
LI: Yes, my daughter lives in Pennsauken, and my third son lives in Glenside, Pennsylvania, and my second son lives in Virginia. And William, my, youngest of the boys, he's in the army, and he's living in Colorado.
HH: Your oldest son, who is no longer alive, what kind of health problems did he have?
LI: He died of a heart attack.
HH: It was similar to your husband's heart condition?
LI: I imagine it would have been the same condition, yes.
<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 7>
HH: As you think back on your life right now from the time you grew up in San Juan Bautista to where you are today, is there something that strikes you as being memorable, some event that was frightening for you? What would you say would be some of the outstanding things that you could put your memory on or your thinking on?
LI: Well, all through the hardship, I am so thankful that all my children were able to get their education, especially with the help of my oldest son. And I am so thankful that I am healthy and I appreciate all what my children are doing for me.
HH: Did you ever work after you moved to Philadelphia?
LI: Yes, I did.
HH: What kind of work did you do?
LI: I worked as a... well, government work, right close by my house.
HH: Which government office was this?
LI: Well, it was like an assembly center where they have all these tools and things, and I took care of the paperwork that came in and out for the government, yes. It was government work.
HH: Clerical work?
LI: Yes.
HH: Have you heard the expression the "Quiet Americans," and the Niseis being described as "quiet Americans"?
LI: Yes.
HH Would you say that you agree with that label, or would you agree?
LI: I agree with that, yes. I think we were quiet Nisei.
HH: As you think back on this now, would you think that that was a good way to be or would you recommend another way of responding to things such as internment?
LI: Well, I think the quiet way was because, you know, I think now they have, like East Coast when we moved here, a lot of people didn't know what went on in the West Coast. They were surprised to hear what went on. And we were quiet about it, which meant that now they realized what we the Nisei had gone through.
<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 8>
HH: How open are you today to talk to other people your experiences in California about internment, about being a Japanese American when you speak to non-Japanese Americans?
LI: Oh, I think I am free to talk about this. And a lot of my friends agree what went on was...
HH: Do they know a little bit about your life and things that you went through?
LI: Yes.
HH: To what extent have you kept up with your Japanese language?
LI: I still write. I could write and read, because I went to Japanese school while we were growing up in California. And when I was fifteen, I went to Japan, and we were there for six months, and we went to Japanese school there in Kyushu.
HH: So you learned to read and write?
LI: Yes.
HH: You still can do that today?
LI: Yes, I can. Because we were told to speak Japanese at home since my father and mother spoke Japanese. And I am very happy that I kept up speaking Japanese.
HH: To what extent would you describe your children as being Japanese? I know they're Japanese Americans, but to what extent are they Japanese?
LI: Well, don't think, they think nothing of... they realize that, well, none of them speak Japanese. They can understand some of the things, but I think as a whole, I think they feel they're American.
HH: To what extent do they understand Japanese culture?
LI: One of my son is kind of interested in Japanese culture, but the rest of them doesn't seem to think about it.
HH: Do they appreciate Japanese cooking?
LI: Oh, yes, they do, they do. They all do.
HH: And do they decorate their homes in ways that might reflect their Japanese-ness?
LI: Yes, they do.
HH: What kind of things would you find in their home?
LI: Well, they have the screens. Well, in fact, my youngest of the boys were, he was in Japan for three years. He was married there in Japan, married a Caucasian girl, also was in the army. And so he sent us quite a bit of Japanese articles from Japan. And so all my children have things from Japan.
HH: Today, as you think about your circle of friends, who are your closest friends in this area?
LI: Well...
HH: I say this, really I'm asking, are they Caucasians, are they Latino, are they African Americans, Japanese Americans, who are your closest friends in this area today?
LI: Caucasians, yes. The neighbors and church, I attend the church in Palmyra.
<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 9>
HH: Oh, that's, this church that you belong to, is that a church that you say you've been a member of for a long time?
LI: For forty years. We've been a member of the Baptist church in Palmyra for forty years now.
HH: Were you a Baptist when you were in California?
LI: No, I wasn't. I used to attend the Buddhist church in California.
HH: At what point did you become a Christian?
LI: Well, the reason was when we moved to West Philadelphia, when we left, we attended the church there. It's because my children attended a Bible school on Spruce Street where we lived, John Wanamaker's Presbyterian church, and we thought that wasn't right for us to have... then, first, they attended the Bible school in the summertime, and then they started to go to Sunday school and my husband, being a Methodist, he felt that we should send just the children to church, that we should attend, and that's how we started to go to the Presbyterian church.
HH: Oh, I see. And then I realized that your husband was a Methodist and you were a Buddhist.
LI: Yes.
HH: Your children did not have a religious...
LI: No, they didn't.
HH: ...arrived in Philadelphia?
LI: Right.
HH: And they, the way you describe it is they accidentally went to bible school?
LI: Yes.
HH: And then eventually became Christians.
LI: Right.
HH: And so did you.
LI: Yes. And we joined the Presbyterian church. When we moved to Jersey, my children played with friends. They made friend with the Baptist church group, and that's how we thought that instead of us separating and going to Presbyterian church, we visited there. We thought we'd better go to a church where we could all attend, so we joined the Baptist church there in Palmyra.
HH: In the United States today, there were certain people that had a more difficult time than others, and most people would say that people who had difficult times are the people of color, meaning Latinos, African Americans, and Asian Americans. Did you feel that you could identify with the kind of experiences that other people of color had?
LI: Yes, I think so, yes.
<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 10>
HH: What are the things that you could find as things similar in your life that other people of color have in their lives?
LI: Well, right now, I am, for my therapy I am attending, I go to the spa in Cherry Hill. And we all mingle, all of us, and I have a wonderful experience with each one that attend the...
HH: Are you saying that there were Latino Americans and African Americans there at the same therapy place?
LI: Yes.
HH: And so you get along with well with them.
LI: With everybody.
HH: Can you find something about your life and your experiences that are similar to that found in the lives of Latinos and African Americans?
LI: Yes.
HH: What might they be?
LI: Well, I guess, I mean, we as a Japanese always respect, you know, the elders and I find that we, I think we just go back to the times we were growing and we still feel that there are people here that are same as we are.
HH: These are the same things that other people of color have, respect for their elders?
LI: Yes. I presume they are, too. Because many times after our session at the pool, we get together at lunch hour and we often laugh about it because we do exercise to keep ourself from not putting weight on and then we go for lunch and some gathering, and we have a wonderful experience there.
HH: Have you heard the expression "model minority"?
LI: Model...
HH: Have you ever heard of Japanese Americans or Asian Americans being described as "model minority"?
LI: No.
HH: You ever heard of that?
LI: No.
HH: Sometimes they said that about Asian Americans because they seem to be doing so well in America. Do you feel that Asian Americans as a whole are doing very well in America?
LI: Yes.
HH: If so, what kinds of reasons might this be? Why is it that Asian Americans are doing so well?
LI: I presume, from our background, and education has a lot to do. Well, as a whole, I think it all goes back to our ancestors, how they have brought us up. I feel my mother and father had so much, you know, they had went through a lot of the experience, more than us. And I think that's why they have the experience which helped us along.
<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.
<Begin Segment 11>
HH: Let me ask you one last question. Of all the characteristics that you possess, what other characteristics -- you may give more than one -- that would make you uniquely a Japanese American?
LI: Well, I still feel that I think we all, Japanese Americans, stand out, I think. I still think it's our upbringing that's unique, I think.
HH: The unique way in which you were raised?
LI: Right, yes, and the surroundings.
HH: What do you remember about the ways in which your parents raised you?
LI: Well, first of all, my father and mother had always said to respect the elders, that was the main thing, but to stand up for our rights, naturally. And I felt that, you know, we have the responsibility for our children, which, I mean, I have kept. Even now, by myself, I feel I am so glad, that I am grateful and thankful for all my children.
HH: Thank you very much. Is there anything you would like to add to this interview?
LI: No, I don't think so.
HH: Thank you very much.
LI: Thank you.
HH: You're very generous.
LI: Thank you.
<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.