<Begin Segment 1>

HH: What is your full name?

CK: My full name is Chiyo Koiwai.

HH: And how many siblings do you have?

CK: I have five.

HH: What are the gender and ages of each?

CK: My sister in Hawaii, who is seventy-eight, my brother Tom Tamaki in Norristown, seventy-six, and then myself, seventy-five. Yoshi would be '73, she lives in Ambler, Susie is seventy-one, living in California near San Francisco, Sunnyvale. And my youngest brother, Ted, will be sixty-nine, living in Renton, Washington.

HH: How many children do you have and what are their names and ages?

CK: I have four children, April, who turned forty-seven, Mark, forty-five, Peter, forty-three, and my youngest, Jay, who's forty and a half right now.

HH: And what kind of an education did they receive or what are they doing these days?

CK: They are all college graduates. My oldest is in... I lost my paper... in Washington, D.C. I lost the paper, I had his title, doing work within the city. It's United Commissions, and that's my first son. But my oldest daughter, April, is in Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. She now works for United Jewish Commission working with Russian Jewish immigrants. My third son Peter is in California, he's in sales for a Japanese company, and the youngest, Jay, is in Los Angeles working in a different area in the films and TV productions.

HH: Do you have any grandchildren at this point?

CK: I have four grandchildren, two from my daughter. He's second year in college, he's twenty years old, and other one, Brian, is a senior in high school. And then two by my son Peter, has a little girl, a six year old, will be starting grade school this fall, named Abby, and then a four year old was born in October, and they both live in California.

HH: Where were your parents born?

CK: My parents were born in Hiroshima, father in Takata-gun and mother in Yoshida, in Hiroshima area.

HH: Where in California, I'm assuming that you lived in California at that time.

CK: Only time I lived in California was when we were sent by the service back in the '50s. But before that, I hadn't.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

HH: Okay. So you were, your parents were born in Hiroshima, and where were you born?

CK: I was born in Tacoma, Washington. But the thing was, my father was in San Francisco during the 1906 earthquake, and he escaped, and at that time, they lost everything. He had worked different areas and worked up in the state of Washington. And he went to Japan and came back with my mother. And they lived in Eatonville, which was a lumber mill in Washington right at the foot of Rainier mountain, they used to call Mount Rainier. So he was a railroad man and also a lumber man topping trees. Now this is where my brother and my sister were born, then from there, Dad moved to Tacoma, Washington, bought a hotel, and that's where I was born. And then two years later, he was, he bought a butcher shop, sold his hotel and bought a butcher shop.

HH: Was it still in Eatonville?

CK: No, this is Tacoma, Washington. We left Eatonville and went to Tacoma and bought a hotel.

HH: So would it be fair to say that your strongest recollection of Washington would be that of Tacoma?

CK: Yes.

HH: How would you describe the Tacoma of your childhood?

CK: It is a small city. At that time of evacuation, they would say it was around two hundred thousand. There was a Japanese community, but it was very, more or less a mixed community. We had a Japanese Buddhist church one block, next block was Methodist church, so Japanese Methodist United Church. Going the other way, there was a Baptist mission. But within this three or four block area, there were Chinese as well as Japanese, Caucasians, it's a mixed area. So when we played, it wasn't all strictly Japanese. But Japanese school was up about two hills up and two blocks over. So when you say the Japanese community, and like us, we attended Japanese school after regular school. So we did get together then and became, Japanese school became the center for the education.

HH: I see. So you had kind of a diverse community with a lot of, rich with many different kind of minority people.

CK: That's right.

HH: In the community. But you mentioned Japanese school, I take it that you attended Japanese school.

CK: Yes.

HH: How many years did you go?

CK: Almost through junior high.

HH: Are you still literate?

CK: What I remember, yes. [Laughs] The problem is, when you lose your parents and your relatives, whom you used to speak to in Japanese, and they pass away, you find yourself, you're not using it anymore, and this is how you forget.

HH: So far as school is concerned, you went through twelfth grade of Japanese school at Tacoma, what other schools did you attend in Tacoma?

CK: Other than the regular public school.

HH: So you went to regular public school and graduated.

CK: Yes.

HH: Any other schools in Tacoma?

CK: As far as my education, after high school. After high school, I graduated in '38. And worked the year, and then in '39, I went into nurse's training. My dad encouraged me, my mother thought otherwise, that it was beneath a Japanese status to go into nursing. But because he had been a patient, as a TB patient in Tacoma, outside of Tacoma, he felt that it wouldn't hurt, that it would be a good field to go into.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

HH: When the war broke out, of course, December 7th, do you remember what you were doing that day?

CK: I was, the day of Pearl Harbor, I was in my senior year in training. I had to come down for lunch, and one of the doctors leaned over and told me, he said, "Hey, Tamaki, what's going on in Pearl Harbor?" I said, "What?" And I said, "I can't believe it," but that was the first time I knew about it.

HH: I see. So what were the events that followed after, for you and your family, after December 7th?

CK: After December 7th, I should say my older sister had been working in Washington, D.C., my brother was in Boston attending medical school. And I was in my senior year, so after we were put on the eight-thirty curfew, I realized that I really had to do something, that Tacoma people were being sent to Pinedale, California, for the assembly center. Well, my roommate was from Puyallup, Washington, and Puyallup, Washington, fairgrounds is the area where she always walked by. So she kept me informed what was going on over at the fairgrounds, that the wire fences were going up and all. And for me, being a senior, I wanted to finish my training in the state of Washington, because if I was sent to Pinedale, California, with my parents, that would mean that I would, wouldn't be able to finish training, that maybe, possibly at some later date, I might have to add another eight months or a year to finish my degree. So talking it over with the administrator, I was able to receive a special dispensation to stay in the state of Washington to go to camp in Puyallup where the Seattle people went, and not to go Pinedale in California. So from then on, I was strictly on my own. And being a nurse, I worked in camp, but in May was my graduation, and I wasn't able to attend. My roommate walked by herself, she said, "Nobody else will walk with me because you're supposed to be there." She's the one that brought me my diploma, to the camp, because she visited me all throughout, rain or shine, she'd stand there with an umbrella, the rain pouring. I'm standing inside and I'd be talking to her. And a soldier, a sentry would be standing next to us listening to our conversation, and at one time, one sentry said, "Come on in, let her come in and talk to you." So that's the way it was. But as far as camp went, we set up the whole hospital system, trained girls to become aides. In other words, we were busy, busy, busy, that we had nothing else to think about.

HH: So if I understand correctly, the rest of the time, you went to Pinedale, but you alone from your family went to the fairgrounds.

CK: Yes, uh-huh.

HH: Okay. How long... but that was an assembly center.

CK: That's assembly center.

HH: Where did you go after that?

CK: From assembly center, we were taken by train to Hunt, Idaho, to Minidoka.

HH: I see. Altogether, how many months did you spend in the two places?

CK: I would say at least fifteen months.

HH: Fifteen months?

CK: Uh-huh.

HH: And then what did you do after fifteen months?

CK: After fifteen months, coworkers, the nurses as well as premed students, started to write to various schools and hospitals for positions or for graduate work. And I cannot remember how many letters I wrote, sending a resume and all. And the only place that I was accepted was at Washington University Hospital in St. Louis, and it was called Barnes Hospital for graduate work in operating room. So with that, but at that time, we needed three people responsible for us with a letter stating as such. And this had to be in triplicate form. So with a hospital administrator being one, and director of nurses being another, promised me a nurses' dorm to stay. And then so happened that my former minister from, Baptist minister from Tacoma had the largest congregation in St. Louis. I wrote to him and he was the third one. So with that, I left camp with those three letters and the pass.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

HH: Well, I know that you eventually ended up in Philadelphia.

CK: That was a year later. But I would say, in St. Louis, after camp, it was the best time of my life. Because the girls I worked with were all graduates. They came from all over, not just one state, they came from all over, very broad-minded. And when we worked together, we worked together. When we went out bicycling or swimming or anything, we went together. If they didn't admit me in one of the pools, then they didn't go in. In this way, I think we covered St. Louis quite well and thoroughly enjoyed it, and found out what the weather was like, it's typical Philadelphia weather in the summertime, hot and humid.

HH: Now that you mention it, what kind of racial prejudice did you encounter in St. Louis?

CK: Herb, as far as racial prejudices go, prejudice goes, there was none. Except the incident I said, we tried to go to a pool and they didn't want me admitted, so the girls wouldn't go in. But that was very few and far between. But as far as work and the patients and all, went, there was no prejudice. But I remember going to Union Station, and I saw the sign for the drinking fountains, say, for Black and white, and that shocked me. I said, "This still goes on." I mean, that shook me up when I first went to St. Louis at Union Station.

HH: By the way, if you were thirsty, which fountain would you use?

CK: I'd head for the "white," because they somehow expected you to. It's just like coming into Philadelphia, and I wasn't quite sure of the area, that I was looking for this appointment. And I asked the policeman right on Broad, right there by Broad Street Station and all. And he said, "Lady, you don't want to go there." I said, "Why?" "It's a Black neighborhood." So no matter where I work, they put me in a category, say, as a minority, but they favor me towards the whites, and this is when I had been accepted as far as work and everything went.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

HH: What kind of decision, what kind of decision was it for you, for you to come to Philadelphia? What were the factors that influenced you to come here?

CK: As far as the influence of coming into Philadelphia, I had met my husband then in camp, and he was a pre-med student in Philadelphia, that was the only school that accepted him. So he asked me to come to Philadelphia to get married, and at that time, the doctor said, "Tell him to come to St. Louis and go to medical school, we have a better medical school, and you can keep your job." [Laughs] So there you have my answer.

HH: I suspect you were torn, but you liked St. Louis?

CK: Yes, I did. Because after I moved from the dormitory, my sister came out from camp, and we moved to an apartment. She did some housework and she attended school, and then because I was there, my younger brother came, and he had an apartment directly across from us, a rooming house so he can eat with us. Then my other sister came and went into cadet nurses at another hospital in St. Louis. So to me, St. Louis was the nucleus for our family to get together, and my parents approved. So then when my move to Philadelphia went, the move started again. My sister came, my other sister came, but my brother was in the service. But my oldest brother was in Boston, finished medical school, but he wasn't in the service because he was in school.

HH: I see.

CK: But we were one of the early ones to come to Philadelphia because War Relocation Authority, I used the Koiwai family picture as a place, in Germantown, as a place they would relocate in Philadelphia, because they were early relocatees. But this was Germantown, Philadelphia, we had the first floor and the third floor, there was a Jewish woman that owned the place on the second floor. Now, from there, after my first daughter was born, we moved to Philadelphia. Being closer to Hahnemann medical school where he was, and lived in an apartment shared with a Caucasian couple. We shared a bathroom, they lived downstairs, we lived upstairs, and this was directly across from Eastern State Penitentiary. So we got to know Philadelphia, we used to walk to Fairmount Park. And we moved again when my other son was born in the Logan area, which is closer to Germantown. And lived in a rowhouse right in the middle of a Jewish neighborhood. And there again, we learned their ways of living and their culture, because it was more or less forced on us, and you don't hang your laundry on certain days. But the children got along fine. At four years old, my daughter, who was April, would bring the whole neighborhood in and said, "Mommy, I want you to meet my friends." So no matter where we moved, I don't think we had any difficulties whatsoever. The children were accepted, and they just moved forward.

HH: It would seem that you had had a variety of resources through friends and other kinds of networks, that a lot of you did feel fairly secure. So would that be correct?

CK: Yes. I think it's a follow-up as far as resources, going out to St. Louis, I was not afraid at all. It's a belief in human being, I believe, that it so happened that our minister was there in the largest congregation. He made an announcement in the evening service, the time when my brother joined me saying, "Could anybody use a young man? His experience is such and such," and this is how he got a job. In other words, you have faith in human being and the return is right there. So I think that's the way I've always felt, that becoming a nurse, and the training you get, we sort of developed that. You don't rely on people, you're trying to do what you can yourself.

HH: Have you ever kept up with the friend who was your roommate while you were in training back in Tacoma?

CK: Yes. So happened that her husband, she joined the service right after graduation. I had tried the same time, applied, and I was rejected, but her husband was a lieutenant in the army and was wounded from the hip down. So she lived in Atlantic City when we met her. But we got her, helped her to get, move back to California, because the husband was being transferred back to Fresno, California. And we see each other at least every five years. At least we would be in Tacoma, Washington, for our reunions. And last time I saw her was our fiftieth reunion in '92, but we do exchange cards. And my Chinese girlfriend that lives in Seattle, she was in training a year ahead of me in another hospital. Now, one thing I shall never forget is when I left Tacoma and was picked up by the army jeep right at the station, my Chinese girlfriend's mother came. Because she said, "Virginia is working, so I came to say goodbye." She hugged me and she said, "If you ever come back, if you ever need anything, I'm always here." Now, I went to meet her two years ago, she's ninety-two, ninety-three now, and she still remembers me. She's ninety-three. But you have friends, and even though you don't keep touch with them often, they're there when you need them. You tell them that you're here if you need them.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

HH: Chiyo, to what extent do you identify with the label "Quiet American"?

CK: "Quiet American"? I don't classify myself as a "Quiet American."

HH: You don't identify with that?

CK: No, I never did.

HH: How about one, the "model minority"? Do you identify with that?

CK: Herb, as far as other minorities go, I am quite aware of it. But the problem arose, and it kept rising, was when you're working, that unless you make yourself known, that you are Japanese, and not Vietnamese that just came over from the boat, I mean, they will go all down the list asking you until you tell them, "No, I did not come over from the boat. I've been here all my life." "Oh." But this you'll find that has occurred to so many people, that you get to a point where you say, "All right, we know what's going on with the other minorities. We will help you as much as you can." It's like you don't want to be classified with them because, I don't know, it's just that you don't want to go through it all over again. I haven't gone out of the way like my, the Uyeharas in Norristown have, they have spent years assisting Laotians and Hmongs, that I feel that my priority is home, whereas they don't have any children. I mean, this is my excuse, I guess, if you need to say that.

HH: Then to what extent do you identify with the plight of Latinos and Native Americans, African Americans?

CK: By donation.

HH: Are there similarities of experience?

CK: In what way, similarities?

HH: Well, in the history of things that African Americans, Native Americans, Latinos, have gone through. Are there certain similarities that you feel that they have their set of experiences that you have, your set, or as Asian Americans --

CK: No, not really. Because I have worked with the Blacks quite a bit. And because I grew up with a girlfriend, one I went to school with, that there wasn't that much difference. Helen was Helen, Helen came and picked me up, we went up, went to school together. So my parents didn't object. We also had a Filipino girl who was a classmate of my sister's, and she always came over. So this sort of carried through wherever we went, that you accept them as who they are. I don't go classifying that, they're an individual like any other Caucasian.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

HH: To what extent do you feel that your values, your daily practices of life have their roots in your Japaneseness?

CK: My Japaneseness?

HH: Yeah.

CK: I would say that because the Japanese school that we attended, that we were taught the history, the language and the culture. And like when we traveled in Japan, we would ask, or at least I did ask about the different temples or whatever, the stories behind them. And this one travel agent looked at me as he said, "Do you know about that? Why do you want to see that?" And I said, "This is what we had studied. I remember the pages in our textbooks, that's why I want to see this church," and he says, oh, and then other historical, these warriors, and they'll say, "You remember about this war?" I said, "Yes, we were taught that." I remember the songs and all. So it's not only that I think as far as the calligraphy that was one of my hobby, my dad helped me with that. But as far as the rest of the culture, Mother did the flower arranging, so it was, sort of taught us just watching her do it.

HH: Do you feel that things like shame sometimes weighed heavily on you?

CK: Not ever. Not ever, no shame whatsoever. I am proud to tell them, if anybody asked about my parents, I said, "While we were attending the Baptist Mission, my mother attended English classes there, and when she would come home and she would ask us to listen to her, and she would say, "The cow jumped over the hence." I said, "Mother, it's fence." "Hence, fence." I mean, scenes like that, you can't forget. And then Mother would stress the point, when she made angel food cake for PTA -- this is in grade school because my younger sister said, "Yes, my mother will bring it." She saved all those eggs to make the special angel food cake, and she said, "They didn't even thank me, they just said to put it there." She said, "How can anyone behave that when they realize how long it took to make, and how much eggs I had saved to walk all the way, over a month, to take it, and walked back again, and don't even say, 'Thank you.'" Said, "Don't you ever do anything like that." It's little traits that we picked up, that we didn't think, it was just part of us growing up. But you realize that after you grow up, that these are things they did pick up.

HH: As you think back, and you've mentioned quite a few already, but might there be another event experience that you remember that is memorable, that has some kind of significance for you?

CK: About what?

HH: Some kind of event that has particular significance for you? And you mentioned quite a few already, as a matter of fact. But maybe one back in Tacoma or maybe in St. Louis, that you will always remember.

CK: Well, as far as Tacoma goes, I felt that I had my training there. I learned to appreciate people. So from there, I had the basis, so when I went to St. Louis, I expected people to be friendly. I won't accept them otherwise, that it was no surprise. Camp was camp. In other words, I think I was old enough or easily identified enough that I wasn't homesick, were outside of the family, we worked, we do what we can, we learned our independence. But anything special, I would say there were so many different things that happened in St. Louis that said, "This is great. Nothing can go wrong."

HH: Thank you very much. You have a very different story.

CK: Well, thank you, Herb.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 1994 JACL Philadelphia. All Rights Reserved.