<Begin Segment 11>

LT: This is our interview with Tomiko Takeuchi, and this is part two. So Tomiko, your family was at Minidoka in Idaho, and in August 1945, by that time, many families were returning to their homes. Your father decided that your family would go elsewhere. How did he make that decision, and where did you go?

TT: We were, I think he was very lucky. He was able to get a job in New York, but he said early on, Mom and he, I guess, talked about it, and they don't want us coming back to the Pacific Northwest because of the negativity of all of us having been moved from here, and all of our neighbors knew why we were moved. And he just didn't know if the area would be conducive to Japanese people or people being rude, and there was no way he was going to put, like he said, "I'm not putting my girls in that kind of a situation." And so we were lucky because he was able to get a job in New York. He became a manager for what was called a co-op, and co-op was a group of small stores where one person like my dad, I think he had the Brooklyn area, and he had about seven stores. And so he would help them with ordering, doing their advertising, working up an ad, actually, and helping them with hiring people. And so two stores might share an employee to save on costs and stuff. And with that, then we got the okay to be able to leave. And he went ahead of us and met some people and we ended up in a brownstone and with our, the Ottos, who were a Jewish couple, and I grew up thinking that lox and bagels, what you had for breakfast, and we celebrated Hanukkah, and I remember the candles in our window. And I didn't like matzo ball soup, but we did a lot of those things. And so we were, that's where we ended up, in a brownstone in Brooklyn.

LT: And you were three years old. So your father was concerned about how people would feel in the Pacific Northwest. The fact of the matter was that you and your family and other Japanese Americans on the West Coast were put in camps "to protect the American people from Japanese Americans." And so here you were on the East Coast, there probably weren't a lot of other Japanese Americans. What was your reception like? Do you remember incidents where you weren't welcome?

TT: No. In fact, I can remember the diversity, because, of course, the Ottos were Jewish, so they weren't necessarily people of color, but there were a lot of different races, so there were a lot of different color and weird people, you know, that you knew didn't look like the regular run of the mill people that in northeast Portland were living there, but no one seemed to ever pay attention. It never seemed to bother them in the least. And I remember my dad one time saying -- there was a big baseball player, and he was walking, we were walking downtown, and he was walking, and no one said anything to him. And he said, "This is, New York is like this. They don't bother anyone or each other, everyone is okay to be here. So I don't care if you're the richest guy in town or the poorest, no one's going to accost you to even ask for your autograph." Where in Portland, Oregon, if Obama comes, everyone's going to go up to him and speak. But in New York, and I guess there's other places, too. So that was, I think, a lot of the reason why he selected that area. And there wasn't. There was such diversity, and they had parties all the time, so out in the park area, they would have different kinds. I mean, Cinco de Mayo was years ago, they did stuff like that. So it might be only a family, but they would be having some kind of ethnic party. But we just never gave it a thought, it's really interesting. And my dad was probably the most blind person as far as color of anyone I've met. He just never saw it. My mother was raised a little differently, the hierarchy in the Asian community, but she never saw anything other than the Asian community. So I never saw her look at other nationalities and think everything, she just knew there was a hierarchy in the Asian community.

LT: Well, as a three year old who had spent your first three years in a camp with mostly Japanese Americans there, now to be in a diverse community, do you remember things being different? Do you remember wondering, do you remember situations where you saw people who looked unique to you?

TT: I don't remember any of that. I'm curious, I know my sister has a, Sylvia, who was three, and then, of course, by that time was six, had a whole different hit. She went to school and everything, so I'm sure she saw a lot more. I was still very protected. Mom didn't work, we had a very busy day, 'cause we'd walk Sylvia to school, and then either, usually pick up an ice cream or a hot dog, and then we'd go to the park and we'd play, we went to the library, we read, I spent time with the Ottos, I remember they did a lot with opera, and so you'd hear that kind of music, you know, the opera music. So, I mean, my days were really not spent with a lot of kids. I didn't go to a daycare, we had kids in the neighborhood I played with, but then, of course, our day was busy and then we'd go to lunch or whatever, and then we had to go pick up Sylvia and then come home, and then we'd do grocery shopping and then get ready for Dad, that type of thing. So I don't think I was in, around a lot of people. So I didn't feel the change. The first time I went to Japan, that was another one of those shockers, when you look around at everyone, you know. But I didn't feel any of that when I was a kid. It just, no one seemed to pay any attention to anything.

LT: You were introduced to a lot of culture, new culture, cultural arts, when you were in New York.

TT: And I do think my parents, I do think Dad, who loves his music, was in heaven. Because we'd go and watch big bands play, and, of course, always in Central Park, they always had, in this big rotund kind of thing, they had different groups that would play there. And, yeah, he took us to the opera and the ballet and the theater. And Mom loved dance anyway, would make sure, so we went to the Rockettes, I betcha, every week. And that was my goal, man, I was going to be a Rockette, and I would stand there as a three year old, and I didn't even come up to their knee. These women were tall, and when they kick, they can kick straight up, their leg is right in front of their nose. So that was my goal, I did a lot of falling as I tried to get that little stubby leg up there kicking. But yeah, so the cultural part was just amazing, and I think the diversity of the people around, I mean, we heard so many different kinds of music. You heard all kinds of languages. It was not strange to be on the subway and not understand anyone except who was sitting next to you. And I do remember that just so vividly, it was always so exciting. And my folks embraced it, and so they took us to a lot of places. We went, we were out and about a lot, and we'd go to the different boroughs without even a thought, we took the subway around, of course, everywhere, and buses and things like that, and we walked a lot. But gee, I don't remember anything feeling the difference when I went from a totally Japanese community to the other, possibly because I was so young, I don't know.

LT: You did mention the first time you saw a black person.

TT: That was amazing, because having gone from being in a white community totally, and then going to Minidoka, and we were someplace in New York, and there was smoke from this car, and a black person was sitting there. And I was concerned because, you know, I couldn't see his face at first, and I was concerned he had smoke all over him. And then when the smoke went down, yeah, I couldn't stop looking. And I remember my mother, she used to just pinch us, pinching me, you know, and she says, "Don't stare," or something like that. I said, I can't stop. "What is wrong with that guy?" you know? And then luckily we moved on, yeah, and then she explained to me. But he was extremely dark, and yeah, it was the first time I ever had seen a black, such a black person. And after that, it seems like I'd run into maybe, or maybe I hadn't paid attention. No, I knew I'd seen, so yeah, that was a very big pinch.

LT: Well, so this very culturally rich community where you have friends, your father had a good job, your mother was enjoying the arts. How did you decide to return to the Pacific Northwest?

TT: I think that was always on my dad's mind, you know, always. The schools back there he didn't feel were as good academically, and it was a tough little neighborhood, actually, when you think about it. When we first got to New York, Sylvia went to the local PS, whatever it was, and my mom went with her, and here shows you her assertiveness again. She took one look around that class and she said, "We need to leave," she told Sylvia, so Sylvia didn't even spend an hour in her new school. So they went home, and the next thing Sylvia remembered, she was in private school. [Laughs] And so I know that there was concern about the quality of education, and even though there was a huge diversity and a lot of culture, a better place he felt for children to be raised, and Portland was his home. And he always loved Portland for the openness, the friendliness, and he's always been extremely supportive. Of course, now we're such a foodie place, and it's just the acceptance of people in general, that I think he just always wanted to come back. Plus, you know, my grandparents were up in Seattle, and all my aunties and uncles along either in Washington or Oregon or California. So it was a natural to come back.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright &copy; 2014 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.