Densho Digital Archive - Masuko Oyama Interview

Densho Digital Archive
Densho Visual History Collection
Title: Masuko Oyama Interview
Narrator: Masuko Oyama
Interviewer: Janet Kakishita
Location: Lake Oswego, Oregon
Date: November 10, 2013
Densho ID: denshovh-omasuko-01

<Begin Segment 1>

JK: Today's date is Sunday, November 10, 2013. This interview is taking place at the residence of Albert and Masuko Oyama in Lake Oswego, Oregon. Todd Mayberry and Betty Jean Harry from the Oregon Nikkei Endowment are observing this interview, and Ian McCluskey from NW Documentary is the cameraman. I am the interviewer, Janet Kakishita, and I will be interviewing my aunt Masuko Oyama. This project is part of the Minidoka Oral History Project by the Oregon Nikkei Endowment. Auntie Masuko, we're going to find out about you first. So can you tell us where you were born and when you were born?

MO: Portland, Oregon, February 21, 1927.

JK: And where were your family or parents living at this time?

MO: Southwest Taylor Street.

JK: Okay, and was that a hotel?

MO: A hotel.

JK: And the name of the hotel was?

MO: Hachi Hotel.

JK: Hachi Hotel, and that's interesting, 'cause that's your last name, your maiden name. So who named the hotel?

MO: I think my father.

JK: Oh. And he was able to even though he was leasing it?

MO: I think so.

JK: That's interesting. Is there any significance to the name that they gave you at birth?

MO: I don't think so.

JK: So you don't, "Masuko" has no special meaning.

MO: No.

JK: Okay. Let's find out more about your dad. What was your dad's name and where was he born?

MO: He was born in Japan but I don't know where exactly.

JK: Uh-huh. And his name was?

MO: Shonosuke Hachiya.

JK: Okay. And what kind of work did your father do before he came to America, or was his family in any kind of business?

MO: No, I'm not sure about that. But when he came to the U.S., he found a job as a cook.

JK: Okay, and do you remember where he was cooking at? Is it the Arlington?

MO: Arlington Club.

JK: Okay. And that turned to be very helpful during the time of the Depression, didn't it?

MO: Oh, yes.

JK: And how did it help your family?

MO: He had a job, so we were able to eat. At this time, my mother was running the hotel that they were renting. We were lucky.

JK: And so your family were able to do fine during the Depression and after Depression years. How many siblings did your dad have, do you remember?

MO: No, I don't know.

JK: Okay. And what was his rank in the family order of siblings?

MO: I just really don't know for sure, but he just, I know he had a brother, but that's all I would know. And his brother was older.

JK: Oh, so he had an older brother.

MO: Uh-huh.

JK: How did, how did your dad decide to come to the United States? He just came, came and worked, and it was just in the hotel business or did he have other jobs, too?

MO: He worked at an Arlington Club as a --

JK: Okay, as a cook.

MO: Cook's helper.

JK: And then in the hotel, okay.

<Begin Segment 2>

JK: How about your mom? What was your mom's name and where was she...

MO: She was born and raised in Okayama, Japan.

JK: And her name was?

MO: Her name was Masano Onoda.

JK: Okay. Did her, was her family in any business or did any kind of work in Japan that you can remember?

MO: No, I don't know.

JK: Okay. Did she have brothers and sisters, too?

MO: Yes, she had brothers and sisters, but I don't know the details. I do know she had a sister. I don't know the other siblings.

JK: And your family is interesting on your mother's side in that her parents came to the United States.

MO: Yes.

JK: And they had children here and some of them died?

MO: My mother was the only one that was from Okayama, and my grandfather from Okayama came to Portland to visit us and stayed with us for a while.

JK: Okay, and you have memories of your grandpa.

MO: My grandfather.

JK: Uh-huh. What did he look like or what did he do?

MO: He was tall, real tall, gray-haired tall person.

JK: Okay. And was he doing work, too?

MO: No, he was a babysitter. I was the baby he was sitting.

JK: Okay, so his job was babysitting you, and then you have a memory where he used to take you, too.

MO: Oh, yes.

JK: Yeah, where did he take you?

MO: He took me to a barber shop where he had friends that was from the same country in Japan. So we walked several, several blocks to visit them every day.

JK: And where else did he take you to?

MO: Shopping, for a walk.

JK: Okay, so he did the shopping for the family, too?

MO: Yes, uh-huh.

JK: Okay, and so your grandfather was here in American babysitting you, and your grandma was in Japan?

MO: Japan, uh-huh.

JK: Okay, raising the...

MO: Rest of the... I don't know whether she had children to raise or not, 'cause he was the eldest, I think, one of the eldest.

JK: Oh, okay. Your mom, though, was born in Japan, but she had siblings that were born in the United States, too.

MO: Yes, uh-huh, because her parents came to the United States, and while they were here, they had babies, but most of them died for some reason. So I think there might have been out of four or so children, only one survived.

JK: Okay.

<Begin Segment 3>

JK: How did your mom and dad...

MO: Meet?

JK: Meet, yeah?

MO: I don't know.

JK: They did get married, but you don't know how this worked out?

MO: No.

JK: Do you remember the age difference between your mom and dad?

MO: No, I don't remember that.

JK: Do you remember how old your mom was when she came?

MO: She was in her early teens, like thirteen.

JK: When she married Grandpa? Oh. And Grandma worked at the hotel is what you remembered?

MO: Uh-huh.

JK: And what was your father like? You remember memories of your own dad a little?

MO: He was very quiet. He wanted, whatever he said was what he wants us to do, so he was the ruler of our family when he came home from work.

JK: In a quiet way?

MO: Yeah.

JK: Did he give you a look? [Laughs]

MO: No. When he came home, we just listened to him, nobody else.

JK: Okay. And what was your mom like when you were growing up? What was her personality like?

MO: Very fragile, I thought.

JK: In what way?

MO: Well, she couldn't speak English, so she was depending on us to translate anything 'cause she was... I hate to say running the hotel, but she managed the hotel. When the renters came up, they spoke nothing but English, so we would have to translate for her.

JK: So you were helping your mother translate.

MO: Yeah. But being the low man on the totem pole, my brothers who are older did the translating.

JK: Okay. And how would you describe your parents' relationship from your point of view as a child? Your dad was quiet.

MO: Yeah. Just like father and mother should be. I didn't know any different.

JK: Okay. And if they had to deal with a difficult situation, how did they solve it or work it out? Were there any situations that they had to deal with?

MO: Not that I know of. No, they managed to talk amongst themselves. I never knew if there was any trouble or anything.

JK: Okay, so they kept it between the adults.

<Begin Segment 4>

JK: When you were... we're gonna talk about your childhood now. How many brothers and sisters did you have?

MO: I had two brothers and a sister.

JK: And what were their names?

MO: My sister's name was Yoshiko. There was Hiromichi and Terumasa.

JK: And what was your order in the family?

MO: Two boys and then two girls later.

JK: Okay, and were you...

MO: I'm the low man on the totem pole.

JK: Okay, so you were the youngest in the family. Do you remember what your neighborhood looked like when you were little?

MO: It was very busy. It's in the middle of town, Portland.

JK: Okay, can you describe --

MO: On Taylor Street.

JK: Okay, this is the Hachi Hotel?

MO: Hachi Hotel.

JK: Were there other Japanese around you?

MO: Yes, a block away. (...)

JK: Okay. And were there any Japanese businesses around?

MO: Yes, grocery store, barber shop.

JK: Okay, do you remember the grocery stores, were they run by people you knew?

MO: Yes, uh-huh. It was not like a grocery store would be. There were open food stuff like that, like the short order type, excuse me. You know, not like a big store. What would they call it? Marketplace, they shipped in all the fresh fruit and just displayed it for the sidewalk sale.

JK: Okay, so made it easy for your family to get the food and things that they needed.

MO: Yes, very close to town.

JK: Where did you play? Did you have places to play in your neighborhood?

MO: Yeah, there's parks close by. Park blocks are just a couple blocks away.

JK: Were your friends mostly Japanese in the neighborhood?

MO: Uh-huh.

JK: Do you remember who some of them were?

MO: Yes, the Suzukis, the Haras, there was (Iwatas) and there were several hotel owners around the same area.

JK: What was it like living at the Hachi Hotel? Was the family living space small or big?

MO: No, it was large. It would be like a home. They had a kitchen, the two bedrooms. The bathroom was the only thing that was separate from that. It was like an apartment where we were, but it was a hotel. The rest is just a sleeping place.

JK: Okay, and what other memories do you have about being a kid growing up in South Portland?

MO: Crowded. No, it was convenient, really. Our friends were all around, just a stone's throw away from each other, so we grouped together to play down by the riverside.

JK: What did you do at the riverside?

MO: Played softball, anything, and there was always a playground by the river.

JK: Were you involved in any other activities with softball? Did you do other...

MO: No, I was too young then for that. Just playtime for me at the time.

JK: Okay, so you were just playing, running around the city. Your family life, what did the family, did the family do anything for fun together?

MO: Well, I can only think of picnics that we did in summertime. The boys always had their things, and my sister and I did our thing.

JK: Well, what are things that you and your sister did?

MO: Well, she was older than I was, much older, so I had to tag along, which she didn't like, but I tagged along.

JK: And where did she take you?

MO: To her friends' place, and they would play house or play school, things like that. And I was always the bad person, schoolmate. I had to do the running around, get food for them.

JK: Okay, so they, you were the...

MO: Run-around.

JK: The gopher for them.

<Begin Segment 5>

JK: When you went to school, which school did you go to?

MO: Shattuck.

JK: And that was the neighborhood school?

MO: Uh-huh.

JK: What was the population of the school?

MO: I don't know.

JK: Did it have more, a lot of Japanese?

MO: They had Jewish people, Chinese people, Japanese people, majority, I think. Lots of Jewish people.

JK: Lots of Jewish people. When you started school, did you speak English or were you still, were you speaking Japanese?

MO: No, went right into English.

JK: Okay. And you were speaking English because of your...

MO: Uh-huh, rest of them were brother and sister.

JK: And what was your school day? Do you remember what your school day was like?

MO: It was fun.

JK: And how did they make it fun at Shattuck for you?

MO: Oh, well, I liked to read, I liked to write. Arithmetic was my favorite. I liked school.

JK: Okay, so you enjoyed going. Shattuck had a swimming pool.

MO: Yes, they did, but I was too young for that and didn't know how to swim yet, but they did have a nice pool in the basement.

JK: Oh, okay, so you didn't take swimming lessons at school.

MO: No.

JK: Did you do any community activities when you started going to school, did your mom sign you up for anything in the community or Japanese community?

MO: We attended Japanese school after the regular grade school. Our time was filled with school.

JK: So what were your day, when did regular school start and then Japanese school?

MO: Eight o'clock, and then ended at three-thirty, around there. And then we'd walk to the Japanese school, school started as soon as we could. 'Cause they had two sessions. Grade school were first and high school was afterwards. They went to past five o'clock in the evening.

JK: What time was school done?

MO: From about three-thirty to five.

JK: It was a long day. And was school, Japanese school, every day?

MO: (Six) days, Monday through Saturday. Saturday was very brief and we did the cleaning. We scrubbed our classrooms.

JK: And what were they teaching you at Japanese school?

MO: Reading and writing mostly.

JK: And did they do any cultural activities at school?

MO: Oh yes. Yes, they had... well, I hate to say contest, but any dancing, any talent that anybody had, they would have a program like that. So they would entertain our parents in the school with all of our talents.

JK: Did you enjoy Japanese school, too?

MO: Yes.

JK: Okay. The one you went to was South Portland?

MO: South Portland.

JK: South Portland's Japanese school, okay. And did you have any hakujin friends when you went to Shattuck?

MO: Yes, uh-huh. There were some special ones and then there were some special ones.

JK: Uh-huh. And then how did you keep a balance between Japanese and being American?

MO: You know, it never occurred to me that much. You know, I didn't think of Japanese and Japanese so much as when you go to school, they're all there. And you sit next to them and play with them, eat with them. I didn't ostracize.

JK: It was just, they were just friends?

MO: Yeah, just friends.

JK: And I remember a story one time you talked about how your mom, you took lunches to school and your mom would make a special lunch. What was that?

MO: I don't know, sushi, it would be a special lunch for me, and it was always stolen. It was always swiped. So somebody knew what I was getting for lunch and they would take my sushi lunch.

JK: Okay. So you never did get to enjoy your special lunch, someone else enjoyed it.

<Begin Segment 6>

JK: How did your family keep you connected to Japanese culture?

MO: Well, we had to go to Japanese school, learn how to read and write Japanese.

JK: And I remember some pictures of you dancing.

MO: Oh, well, I took dancing lessons, too, Japanese dancing lessons.

JK: Was this something you wanted to do or your mom...

MO: No, my mom, I think my mom wanted to do that, and so she got me to do it.

JK: And did you come to enjoy dancing?

MO: Yes.

JK: And what would you do, besides learning dancing lessons, what did you do with the lessons that you learned?

MO: Well, they always had programs, so the ones that had been taking dancing lessons and music lessons, they always had the program for that once a year.

JK: Did your mom make you take other lessons, too, besides dancing?

MO: She didn't make me, but I wanted to take tap dancing. I took tap dancing.

JK: Did you, was this with Japanese or hakujin?

MO: No, hakujins.

JK: And so did you also do shows and things, recitals with that?

MO: Well, yeah, they had programs.

JK: Was there anything else you wanted to do? Did you do any sports besides playing softball?

MO: No, I did all that, tomboyish things.

JK: Any other special memories growing up?

MO: No, it was very pleasant. I enjoyed it.

JK: Let's talk a little bit about the hotel. How did you, did you have any chores to do in the family business? Did you have to help?

MO: Whatever my mom needed to help, we did. But there were just chores gathering the dirty towels from the rooms, the hotel rooms and things like that, little things that I could help her with. But there isn't.

JK: Okay, so everyone pitched in and helped at the hotel.

MO: Oh, yes.

JK: And did you do any other work yourself outside of the hotel to earn money when you were growing up?

MO: No, I was too young to go out to get a job.

JK: Okay, as you got older did you do anything to earn money?

MO: Yes. I worked at a sports store and gift store, places like that.

JK: And was this money that you got to keep?

MO: Yes. If I worked and earned it, I was able to keep it and got whatever I needed. Clothes, books, it was mine.

JK: Okay. So you didn't have to chip in to the pot for the family.

MO: No. There wasn't that much.

JK: Did you ever pick berries?

MO: Oh, yes. Berries and beans.

JK: Where did you pick berries and beans at?

MO: The farms, Gresham, got farms.

JK: How did you get out there?

MO: Oh, we took the bus. There were lots of city buses that would go to the countryside.

JK: So you would have to pay to get the bus to go out and work?

MO: Oh, yeah.

JK: Do you remember which farms you worked in?

MO: Fujimoto's the only one that I can think of now.

JK: Okay, and how about the beans?

MO: The beans were later on. I was too little for them. I had to carry those things and they were too heavy.

JK: Okay, but when you did go bean picking, do you remember whose farm?

MO: I think it... no, I don't, because I didn't really...

JK: Okay, well, that's interesting how you took the bus out there and paid.

MO: Oh yeah, that was the only way we could get there.

<Begin Segment 7>

JK: Why don't we move into wartime? At that time, you were in high school when the war started?

MO: No, not quite. I guess it was the beginning, freshman.

JK: You would have been a freshman. When Pearl Harbor was bombed, when did you first find out about that?

MO: Oh, we were at a basketball place, Peninsula Park is where they used to have meets, and we heard it while we were there. So we had to rush home from the east side, take a streetcar and get home to the west side.

JK: And how were your parents --

MO: It was in the evening. Oh, they were panicked.

JK: And what kinds of things were they talking about or the family worried about?

MO: Well, we didn't know what to expect. We didn't know who was being picked up, but then we were told there were a lot of men that were picked up. And that was the only, whoever got picked up, the stories were running around, but nothing concrete to prepare or to tell anybody. It's that they were looking after, going to Japanese homes and arresting the fathers.

JK: So you heard that, and were you worried about your own dad?

MO: Yes, I was, but they never came by to pick him up.

JK: After things settled down, what was happening while you were, still didn't know what was going on?

MO: We had to think about where we were going to be evacuated to, 'cause that's what they told us, that we would all be evacuated immediately and put all the Japanese in one place, which we didn't know where yet.

JK: Okay, and so you were, how was your family preparing for that? With the business and with personal things?

MO: I was too young for that. I didn't pay much attention. I think my older brothers helped that out.

JK: Okay. And because you owned, your father owned, your family owned the hotel, were there people that could help run the business while you were gone?

MO: I don't know the details of those things.

JK: Okay. And what kinds of things were you thinking of packing when you heard you had to pack?

MO: We could only take what we can carry. The younger you are, the less you could carry, so you had to be very careful what you're going to pack, not toys or cosmetics or anything like that that's useless afterwards.

JK: So you had to think out your, the clothes that you could carry.

MO: Oh, yeah, clothing that you want to take with you.

JK: And where, your family was able to store their other things?

MO: Yes, we did. We were fortunate because my father had bought the hotel. He owned the hotel which was very rare at that time, for anybody to own a piece of land, and we were able to just store things in the basement of the hotel.

JK: And how did the people who lived in the hotel, the pensioners, react to what was happening to your family?

MO: They wanted to know where we were going to go, what was going to happen, yes, but they weren't mean to us or anything. I'm sure we lost a few people that wouldn't want to stay where the Japanese people owned it, but after we left, they wouldn't know that it was owned by Japanese or not.

JK: So other people could come in and rent.

MO: They could still rent, uh-huh. We had no trouble with that, luckily.

JK: Okay. Your hakujin friends, how did they react to what was happening to you, or were you able to take, have contact?

MO: I didn't feel any friction at all. I think they said they were sorry that we won't be there anymore at school. They didn't know what was going to happen, and we didn't know for sure what was going to happen either, but we knew we'd been, we had to prepare to pack and be ready to move anytime.

JK: Okay, so you felt supported by their...

MO: Yeah, they were... I don't want to say decent, but they didn't show any nasty things to say to us.

<Begin Segment 8>

JK: And at the time when they finally determined you were go to the assembly center, how did your family get there, do you remember?

MO: No. You know, when people ask me that, I feel so dumb. Being the youngest, you know, you did whatever you were told. So I can't remember a lot of things.

JK: You just followed?

MO: Yeah, I did what they told me to do.

JK: When you got to the assembly center, what was your first impression when you looked around?

MO: It felt like an insult to be put in there, 'cause the partition they had were just all drapes, sheets, taking up square. If you had a family of four people, they had four beds. Family of five, they had the same square with the same beds that we would sleep in. The thing that was dividing us was just a thin sheet between us, so you could hear anybody burp, snore, anything. It was just a big, big place. It was fun for young people.

JK: Uh-huh, so what made it fun for you when you were there?

MO: It was... I laughed more than anything else, what else can you do? You can hear people snoring and coughing, anything. Turning in their beds, all the noise was all available for anybody because it was one big room.

JK: Uh-huh. And how did you spend your day as a young person, as time progressed, at the assembly center?

MO: Find whatever you can do without getting in trouble, I guess.

JK: So what kinds of things did you find?

MO: Well, there wasn't much you can get in trouble, there wasn't anything you can do. But they fed us, we had food, meals, three meals a day. You could take showers.

JK: Was it private for you, the showers and things?

MO: Oh, no, shower's all one open stall.

JK: And how were meals handled at that time?

MO: Like a restaurant would be. Just served on the big table.

JK: Okay, so the whole family would go with other families, you would go through the line.

MO: Uh-huh.

JK: And did you have school? Did you have to go to school then?

MO: Yes. Well, I don't know if they called it schools, but they did try to keep the grades together, whatever grade you were in, they would have a group in a certain place that you couldn't waste too much time getting behind in your class work.

JK: Did they have activities to keep you occupied, too, that they --

MO: They tried to. They had things going athletically. People have baseball, tennis, or whatever, to keep us occupied. But that's a very small place for a lot of people.

JK: And your father didn't go with you to the --

MO: He was ill. He was ill, and he was in the hospital, and so they let my oldest brother stay with him until he was able to move.

JK: Okay, so he was...

MO: Went and met him in Idaho.

JK: How did your mother deal with this? She could go and see her husband?

MO: Uh-uh. She had to take care of the three of us. There were four of us in the family, so she was the take-carer.

JK: Okay, and how did your mom spend her day at the assembly center?

MO: With the other ladies, I think. They grouped together, kind of consoling each other, what else can you do? Talked to each other, and meet people that way, too, from all over.

<Begin Segment 9>

JK: And when it was time for you to go to Minidoka, did they prepare you at the assembly center for where you were going? Did they tell you what...

MO: What to expect?

JK: Uh-huh.

MO: I guess so. They said there's always a sandstorm, that's all they were concerned, that we will not like it too well. There's always a sandstorm, it was sandy.

JK: So you had some anticipations. And how did you get to Minidoka?

MO: Well, the train is all I can remember. They grouped us, I don't remember the details, whether it was alphabetically or how, but we took the train.

JK: Okay. And how long, do you remember how long that took by train?

MO: We had many nights together, so must be more than one.

JK: Okay, so you remember it took several days. When you got to Minidoka, what was your first impression? What did you see or hear?

MO: That's a wide open, deserted place. Nothing but sand, nothing but open place.

JK: And when they assigned you to your living quarters, what was that like?

MO: Barracks? Well, it was shelter. I don't think we could complain, it was shelter. It was fine. It had beds in there. We all had to sleep in one room, of course.

JK: How did your mother cope with this? Your father was still ill, and how did she handle setting up the living quarters?

MO: Well, she did what she had to do, but I think probably my other brother helped, 'cause he was the next oldest in our group, now. And my sister and I had to do what we can to make it into a home.

JK: And so what things did you do to help make it homey?

MO: Well, make the beds. All they did was put in frames of bed, we had beds together, and each had a bed to set up. We each had mattress and stuff like that.

JK: And what was camp life for you as a young person?

MO: You know, it's a funny thing to say, but it was fun in the sense that we got to meet other people. I almost looked forward to going to school because I could meet new people from different area. But that wore out very quickly, rapidly, because we had to walk so far to go to school. And Idaho is not known for good weather, so we had windy, sandy, dusty walks to get to school. And you always felt dirty because the dust is, clings to your skin. You're perspiring from walking so far, and you're always scraping sand off of your perspiration. It was a challenge.

JK: How did you wash your, if you had to wash your clothes and things, how did you adjust?

MO: There was a big washtub, washroom. Lots of sinks. It's like a military place, rows and rows of washtubs. So there would be a crowded place, but then people want to wash all about the same time, so you'd have to wait in line, but they had plenty of washtubs to do your washing. You'd have to find a way to hang it someplace, but you have to find your own hanging place.

JK: How'd you take care of your own bathing needs and things or keeping clean?

MO: They did have shower, shower stalls, open shower stalls, miles and miles of shower.

JK: But these weren't, were they by the barracks or did you have to walk?

MO: It's all in the barracks, yes.

JK: And how did they handle feeding?

MO: Feeding is the same; rows and rows of tables all lined up, we all ate at a bench like picnic benches.

JK: How did this work for your mother and for you kids? Did you eat with your mom or did she eat with her friends?

MO: No, you could do either way. If you want to eat with the family or... it's so scrambled there that you go when you can, sit down when you can.

JK: So made it kind of hard to...

MO: Well, it was okay. It was harder to get the family together at a certain time and try to sit at the same place at the same time.

JK: Did you participate in any cultural, did they have cultural activities and things there?

MO: I think they did, but I didn't pay much attention to that, I guess. I don't remember doing anything at the assembly center.

<Begin Segment 10>

JK: You had an opportunity to go to Salt Lake City and not be at Minidoka. How did that happen? How was that arranged or worked out?

MO: Well, I think it was... I guess my mother and my brother must have discussed it, because my two older brothers, they went to Salt Lake. And because they went to Salt Lake, I got permission to go to Salt Lake. I think they thought I was going to stay with them, but what I had to do was find a place to stay on my own. And I stayed so that I could go, stay with a family that has a child or children, and I was to babysit the children when I'm not in school. But I did have to have permission to go to school, I wanted to finish my schooling.

JK: So what year in high school did you start going --

MO: I must have been just ending sophomore year, had junior and senior year, two years in Salt Lake.

JK: Did you stay with the same family?

MO: No. After summer break, I left and found another one.

JK: Okay, so you would, during the summer, where did you go? Did you stay in Salt Lake?

MO: Yeah, I stayed in Salt Lake, but I don't know what I did. I must have stayed with a friend... I had a friend that I made immediately, she had me stay with her during the summer and go back again to school.

JK: When you were in school, in high school in Salt Lake, because you were working, babysitting, were you able to still participate in school activities?

MO: Yes and no. I would ask if I can, do such and such. The one family was old enough that they didn't need twenty-four hour type of babysitting. If they were younger, well, then, mother wants the relief of babysitting her child, so she expected my full time, so I couldn't do it. I had to take a choice on that if I want to participate anything, too much.

JK: So what kind of high school activities in your high school did you participate in?

MO: That's a good question. [Laughs] I'm, athletically I wanted to play softball, tennis, after the school time, and I had to make arrangements with her if I could stay an hour after school let up. Nothing seriously, because I know I have to work my share during the busy time of hers, that's what I'm there for. So when she's going to prepare dinner, I wanted to be sure that I was there to help her take of the child while she was cooking and things like that. I was fortunate; it was always one child that I was taking care of.

JK: Were you able to make friends in high school?

MO: Oh, yes, uh-huh.

JK: And they didn't treat you differently?

MO: No, 'cause they didn't know, they didn't have anything about leaving. They didn't have to leave.

JK: And they accepted you even if you were Japanese?

MO: Oh, yeah.

JK: So what good memories do you have of Salt Lake, or were there any memories that --

MO: Salt Lake is a very nice place to go. They were all very kind, they were very church-minded people, and I honor that. I don't want to be a Mormon or anything, but they are nice people.

JK: Did you miss anything about not being with your mother and sister?

MO: No. That's kind of funny because I didn't expect to be by myself so young, being thrown into school all by myself in a strange city. But I didn't miss this much. At first I was lonesome, but after I got to do this the next three, four years, I got to learn this, how to be by myself.

JK: So it turned out to be a good experience for you?

MO: Yes, it was.

<Begin Segment 11>

JK: After the war, were you still in Salt Lake or did you go back and join your mom?

MO: No, I came home directly from Salt Lake.

JK: So you were like a, you had just finished your senior year?

MO: Uh-huh.

JK: And how did you get back to Portland from Salt Lake?

MO: Bus. I think a bus ride. It was all bus.

JK: And when you came back, what was your first impression of --

MO: The hotel was available for me. My brother had made it so that I would, to expect me, so the family portion of that hotel that was left for us is available. Then my sister joined me shortly after that, but my mother was left behind for some reason, I don't know.

JK: Okay, so it took your mom longer to get back.

MO: Uh-huh, yes.

JK: And when you came back to Portland, how did you reestablish yourself? What decisions did you make about the next step in your life?

MO: Well, I wanted to continue going to school, so I chose... I chose one school and I think my brother chose not to go to that school. So I don't know how I ended up at Linfield College. That was not my first choice, but it was his choice. So I went there anyway for two years. I liked it, but I decided it was too expensive, and he did, too.

JK: Okay. What were you planning on majoring in in college?

MO: That's a good question. I don't know. I didn't want to be a teacher, I know. It was just a general, just to say I graduated, I guess.

JK: Okay, so after two years of Linfield, then what did you do?

MO: I went to University of Oregon. Went to a cheaper school. [Laughs]

JK: And did you have any major there that you focused on?

MO: No, it was general.

JK: And when you finished college, what did you decide to do next?

MO: I got married.

JK: Okay, to Uncle Albert, of course. And then you started a family.

MO: Uh-huh.

JK: And he was going to medical school, right?

MO: Uh-huh.

JK: Okay, and did children come shortly after?

MO: Not too sure. I don't think we could have afforded it.

JK: Okay, and you had three boys. And how was it different, how do you think their life was different than your life? What things did you want them to have that you didn't have?

MO: You know, I can't say I didn't have anything that I didn't want. I thought that was, I think being evacuated and being shipped to the other places was a good investment for us.

JK: In what way? How did that make you...

MO: There are other people besides Portland people that's living, and the people are different in different areas. I thought the people in Salt Lake were so friendly, so hospitable, and I just love it. It just turned me into a soft person.

JK: Okay, so it helped change you and made you into a better person, and so you wanted to pass this on to your boys, the opportunity to see and meet other people, other points of view. And is there anything else that you would have as your legacy for your boys or grandchildren on your life experiences?

MO: Uh-uh, I don't think so.

JK: Okay.

<Begin Segment 12>

JK: Any values from your parents that you wanted to make sure your boys had, from your culture, from the Japanese culture?

MO: No, I think they'll find it themselves rather than my trying to influence, 'cause I don't think that I have anything that they should change what they're doing now.

JK: In our pre-interview you made an interesting point about your mother, how in the beginning when she was married she always followed what your father wanted. And after he passed on, and her second husband passed on, your mother was able to become a different person.

MO: She became very strong. She said what she wanted to say, she didn't act like a little kitten, she said what she wants to say. Before, she was holding everything back. That's because of a domineering husband, I think she was afraid to say anything contrary to what he was thinking.

JK: And she was able to do things that she didn't do when she was married.

MO: She did things that would please her: take flower lessons, things like that.

JK: And she was a very talented person.

MO: She turned out to be very artistic, and she wanted to, and she couldn't do when my father was alive. He was a very stoic, he wanted a housewife to stay home and take care of the kids and cook the meals, things like that. No side things. So I think she was happy to do something other than that.

JK: And your mom was very artistic and so are you.

MO: No, I don't know about me, but she is, and I think that's what she wanted to do, the things that she knew she could do that she wasn't able to practice.

JK: And you have done a lot of things in your life that you enjoy, and you're able to do them before your mom was able to. But what things did you really focus on that you enjoyed in your life?

MO: Being free, I guess. I was always the low man on the totem pole. I always got the scraps. I was always the one that got the leftovers, it seemed. So I feel like, gee, after the boys went away, I can do what I want to.

JK: And what did you do after the boys went away?

MO: Probably got in trouble, mischief. [Laughs]

JK: And what did you do in your life that you wanted to do and really enjoyed doing?

MO: Oh, well, going out and being by myself, from camp life to Salt Lake on my own was one step forward.

JK: Okay, and how did you continue that step?

MO: I can think and do things by myself, and I have nobody else to blame, nobody else to depend. I grew up ten years faster than I would normally.

JK: Is there anything else you want to be part of this project that you didn't get to say yet that I didn't ask you?

MO: I don't think so.

JK: Okay. Well, thank you very much, Auntie Masuko, for participating in this project.

MO: You're welcome.