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AC: This is an interview with Paul Saito, Nisei man, eighty-one years old. And this interview is taking place in Ontario, Oregon, December 4, 2004. Interviewer is Alton W. Chung of the Oregon Nikkei Legacy Center Oral History Project 2004. Thank you so much for agreeing to speak with us today. So let's just start off with something very basic. Where were you born and when were you born?

PS: Oh, my, that goes back a long time ago. Born in Portland, Oregon. I was a twin, and somewhere along the line I guess about, after we were about six months old, my twin brother got sick, or pneumonia or something, and passed away. Of course, back in those days, that was a pretty rough time. My mother was, she was... oh, must have been about forty years old then, and so she was kind of bent over and then carrying twins. That was a very rough time for her. But that's where I got my start, living on, we lived on the Clackamas River there in a little village called Carver about fifteen miles out of Portland, and wonder if I ever made it through childhood living in that place, 'cause always temped to go down the river and fool around, fish in the summertime. It was a beautiful place to swim, and I remember several times there about hanging on the limbs over the water and about fall in and drown. It's a wonder we made it anyway. That's a good place, a great place for a kid to grow up, though, 'cause there was forests and timber, and poison oak and snakes, lot of things like that. I can remember I'd be up there in the hills, and I could hear my mother calling. Well, I'd be probably half a mile up there... no, couldn't be that far, maybe a quarter of a mile. But anyway, she could tell me that it was time to get home, and I could hear her, but anyway, it was one heck of a place for a kid to grow up. Went to a little grade school there, it was probably a quarter of a mile or a half a mile walk. And I remember in the fall, what a great place that was. Some folks had a peach orchard down below, right along the river there near the school, and so us kids would sneak down there and get a peach or some grapes for lunch. But that was some of the good things I can remember about it. And then, of course, filberts are, they were kind of a wild bush over there, and in fall we'd gather those things up and make like squirrels.

But that's... see, then we moved over here from Portland to Ontario in 1934. And that was quite a thing, because whoever heard of, us kids never heard of Ontario or Eastern Oregon. And my dad made a trip over here the previous fall to meet with some of the residents here and see what the area's like. Of course, we were always, folks always had a garden, so growing things was most important. He wanted to know how agriculture was in this area, and my folks having three sons, why, if he could find a better place to farm, why, at least he wanted to come over and check it out. He met with... oh, let's see. There was the Watanabe family here, and the Aginuma family, the Wada family, Sato family, and Hashitanis, and there were several other families. There was a Fuji family over from Nampa, and I don't know how many of those folks my dad was able to meet when he first came over here, but there was quite a few... not quite a few, but maybe twenty families over here in this area at that time. When I say "this area," I meant Ontario area over to, as far as Nampa and Boise.

And so we decided, folks decided to move over here. And so we moved over here in the first part of February, left Portland on the fourth, I think, February fourth. And we had a Model T Ford coupe, '28 model one time Rio, and the first night we got as far as the Dalles. The second night we got as far as La Grande. And we arrived here, if I remember right, it was on February 6, 1934. But as I think back about that journey, of all the bad weather we've had at that period of time, since then, that particular year, we'd come through without any weather problems at all. Even the old Model T coming up the old Blue Mountain Highway was a-boiling away several times. We would stop and let it cool off, and came on through. But it just amazes me that we were able to make that trip at that time without any weather problems. Because it's been so many times since then I've traveled that area at that particular time of the year, it's been a... well, you just had to stop, you couldn't... there'd be so much snow or fog or something, you couldn't hardly go. As a matter of fact, we went up the Blue Mountains one time, the fog was so heavy, I remember finding myself in a place where there was yellow stripes, and come to realize, I stopped and come to realize I'd just drove off a viewing area. So that's just one of those learning experiences. But we were very fortunate in that particular move in 1934.

When we got over here, why, I went to grade school, what was called Cairo school. It was a little one there by the Cairo Railroad track. Then I went there a couple of days, and then we moved over to a house that was in another district. School there was called Valley View, and I finished, went through eighth grade there and went on to Ontario High School. But neither one of those grade schools are, don't exist now, they've been torn down. And so they put up one new one at what is called the Cairo grade school. Since it was new, it's a very nice grade school.

But those were fun years, go fishing. Of course, we weren't too far from the river and the sloughs down along the Snake River, so go down there and be fishing and that kind of thing, try to make the pea shooters and try to hit bullfrogs and that kind of thing. But anyway, this has been a real good area. I remember in about '38 maybe, 1938, they were growing peas, field peas, for a cannery over in Payette. The neighbors were help loading, and I remember hauling loose peas on the back of a truck through the narrow Snake River bridge east of Ontario, and then another bridge just as narrow, maybe narrower, over the Payette River going into Payette. And you think back now, you wonder how we ever got through those narrow bridges. But everything was smaller back then.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

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PS: Anyway... it was a different agriculture over here. Back over on the Clackamas River, why, the place we farmed, it would flood in the wintertime. So the following spring, we'd have to haul the driftwood and stuff, and logs out of the field where they shouldn't be. But over here it was completely different. I remember going to high school. I guess I was more interested in playing around on the farm than going into sports. I can remember driving a team of horses, and brother Joe driving another team of horses. We hooked up in parallel, pulling a float across the ground to get it ready for planting fall lettuce, that kind of thing. Remember... I guess I was maybe a freshman in high school, or... oh, boy. I thought I was really becoming a farmer when my dad wanted me to cultivate some spuds. And so we had, back then it was just a team of horses and a one-row cultivator. I remember, I thought I was going pretty good, and I turned around one time at the end, had the horses back up a little bit to get squared away, and went too far, and broke the tongue. I thought my dad would blow his stack.

Growing up experience... oh, in 1937, I think, the fall of 1937. Let's see, '36, the farm made some money. And so in the fall, I think maybe in the fall of '36, I bought a little tractor, a little John Deere tractor, all on iron wheels, that was called skeleton wheels, and we got it with a set of rubber tires, too. And I just couldn't wait to get my hands on that thing, and act like a farmer. But I'd get home from school and didn't have lights or starters back in those days. And so we'd hang an automotive battery on the side to have one headlight to see where you're going. Hope everything behind you was all right. That was such an advancement from using a team of horses.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

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PS: That's kind of still in my high school days, and remember went out for football, but never was very successful. The biggest thing I can remember about going for football was getting knocked cuckoo at a practice in junior year. And I was really going to stop this guy carrying the ball in practice, and boy, I hit him head on and knocked myself silly. I guess that's what everybody on the football team remembers me for, getting knocked silly. But anyway, it was a good experience. I remember walking home from practice, after practice, well, it was dark by the time we get home, it's a five-mile walk. But that was the way things were. And I think in senior year, brother Abe, he had a motorcycle, so I was able to use that during football practice. Probably lucky I didn't have an accident with that thing, but anyway, that was a fun thing to have. And a neighbor kid and I, we'd, get a ride home with me. But lived through that experience. I wasn't that interested in sports. I took a couple years of glee club and band, and I think back now, I don't know how I ever got interested in that. But I had an excellent instructor, so I think that was probably the reason I got interested in that.

Then, of course, since I liked my farming, I took Future Farmer, FFA, four years. Then in senior year, why, five of us made a trip to Oregon State College, as it was known back then, senior FFA guys to come and participate in some of the things at the college, see what things were like at college. So you take a kind of an introduction, I guess it was. So I think we were down there several days, and we stayed in fraternity houses and it was a real good experience. I remember that pretty well. By the time we started home, why, nobody had any money left. I think we had enough to buy some gas. But out of the five of us that went, I think I'm the only one that's left. One of the kids that was in that group, he was a former mayor of Ontario. Another one was real active here in civic activities here in Ontario. But anyway, it was a fun trip.

So I graduated in May 1941. Let's see. I had the older two brothers, Abe and Joe. About that time, '41, Joe, who never got to go to high school when we lived over in Clackamas, or Carver, so he went to a business school in Boise for a couple of years, different periods of time. Then in July of 1941, I'm not too sure of the month, but I think that's the year brother Joe volunteered for the U.S. Army. I think that's about the time. I don't know whether it was earlier than that. But anyway, by the time Pearl Harbor came, why, he was on a troop ship headed to Hawaii. They were able to get turned around and come back, I think they came back to San Diego.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

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PS: So on December 7th, that was a Sunday, I remember that very well because we got out of church there, we had a community building that the parents had put up, oh, four or five years previously. Let's see, 1936, put up a multipurpose building over by the airport, and that would give us a place where all the Japanese around here could gather. Young guys could play basketball and baseball, had church there, and picnics. So it was a real good thing that the Isseis did. They wanted to have a place where the kids could gather, and a place to play. Things that, for playing basketball wasn't always available to people at that time. And so took a great effort to put that whole building together. Had a full sized basketball court, and meeting rooms, kitchen facilities. It was really quite a building that the Isseis had put up, gathering place for the people in this area. They'd come over from, family up in Cascade, Idaho, Nampa, Caldwell, Boise, all came over there to have a, well, even like a Japanese celebration called Kenchosetsu, they were able to gather there for that.

But anyway, I was there at the church on December 7th, and went over, after church, went over to neighbor's there, Asato family, and they just had brand new big consul Philco radio, so proud of that, I wanted everybody to see that. And so we were over there, and that's when I first learned about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. That really changed things in the Ontario area. Of course, I guess I really didn't experience a whole lot of difference since I went to high school here in Ontario and I was already through high school. I really didn't run into much discrimination, but I think our parents had some problems. I think, like my dad, he spoke enough English, he learned enough English down through the years that he was able to get acquainted with these, some of the businesspeople in Ontario, so he got along pretty well. Let's see, the car dealership, Cable Chevrolet, we were able to get along with them real well. Of course, Cable Chevrolet, the owner, Lee Cable, I guess, somewhere back years earlier, had a tough time, too, in life. And so he followed the harvests and he knew some of the Japanese up in the Yakima area. But anyway, he was able to get ahold of that Chevrolet dealership in Ontario. Of course, there was a Troxel family that owned a John Deere dealership then. That's where we bought our first tractor, and my dad was able to communicate with most folks pretty well. And, of course, also, the gentleman who had the Feed & Seed here in Ontario, he was a mayor... can't put a name to him. But he was a fine old fellow, he got along with everybody. So anyway, I think as the war went on, why then things... there was signs like "No Japs Allowed" and some of the restaurants wouldn't serve. And I guess I really don't remember having that kind of a problem. Of course, I had a barber that I went to, had a dentist that I went to when I was in school. And I guess there must have been fifty families in this whole area maybe, I don't know, maybe my wife has a better number on that.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

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PS: So anyway, we were able to, well, I think all the old timers here got along pretty well. And the problems started showing up, I think, after people, evacuees started showing up. There was a number of them that came into the area before the evacuation. There were people that moved over in this area on their own free will. Of course, even families from Baker, Japanese working on the railroad up there at Baker, I guess, even though it was out of the evacuation zone, why, it was, since they were working on the railroad, they were asked to leave. We had several families out of Baker that came into, down here to the Ontario area. Anyway, for my family, brother Joe was already in the service. My other brother, Abe, he was married in 1943, and so he was a hard worker when he could, he'd get up at four o'clock in the morning, get out, do things, always the hardest working. But a little ornery, too. But anyway, so he became the farm manager after brother Joe went to the service. And I was given an ag. deferment since parents were getting old. Dad was probably in his early sixties, about that time, the late '50s, but he wasn't in real good health. As a younger man he suffered a pretty bad injury, I guess, when he got kicked by a horse.

But anyway, so that's the way things were going back then. We were farmers so we did what we had to do, worked hard. We used to thin our own beets, sugar beets, we started growing sugar beets back in about 1937 or '36, whenever the Amalgamated Sugar made contracts for growing sugar beets. And also during the wartime we grew lettuce around here. So sugar beets and lettuce both had to be hand thinned. One of the signs of a good worker was to be able to thin an acre a day. Of course, that's thinning with a short handled hoe, and it's a backbreaker. That was the kind of thing that was... that was the thing that we did back in those days. Brother Abe, he could thin an acre a day quite often. But I think I've only thinned an acre twice in my lifetime in a day's period, I try to tell my wife my weak back right now, that's where I got it from. Goes back to when I was thinning sugar beets and lettuce. I don't know whether there's anything, I can make any truth about that or not.

But anyway, that's what we did back before the war. And I can think back, so many people recovering from the Depression days, everybody had to get out and work. I think that's the reason during World War II there were so many tough young men out there, 'cause there was all, so many of them were from agriculture and people from the farmer, hardworking and strong young bucks. I remember during this wartime period we had some evacuees working for us. And told this one kid to grease the disk, so if you get on a tractor and do some disking. I only got the, brother gave me a grease gun, and he didn't know anything about it so he took a little grease and put it on the end of the grease fitting. And that was his idea of greasing an implement. But, well, if you'd never been on the farm where you had that kind of thing to run, why, that's what made sense to him. But anyway, we kind of laughed about that. We still remember that.

And it was quite an experience to have kids from the city out there on the farm. Anyway, they were all willing to give it a try. I remember one kid, it was after lunch, I think. We'd come to Brother's house, had lunch, and then we were going back up the road a couple miles where we had an onion storage. This one kid, he wanted to drive, my brother had a, was a '40 Pontiac coupe, very nice car at that time. But he wanted to drive it. So my brother says, okay, and we all jumped in. It was only about three miles before we had to go, and came up to a corner there, and holy smokes, we didn't think it'd ever make it around there. But luckily, he did. Just like any young kid, he wanted to put the pedal to the floor and see what it was like to go. But anyway, some of the strange things I can remember, but it was kind of a hairy ride at that time. Anyway, lot of good memories about, back in those days, the kids from the city, they helped us for a couple of years there. Then, of course, they went about their own lives and different places.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

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PS: As the war progressed, let's see, I guess I was, March 1945, I was, draft board says, "Well, there's guys coming back, so you need to go serve." So had to report to Fort Douglas in Utah, May or June of '45, I can't remember. Anyway, then I went to, took my basic in Camp Fanin, Texas. That's where I got introduced to chiggers out there in the sand. That was quite an experience. But went through basic, then I went through, sent over to Camp Pickett, Virginia, we were supposed to go over to Europe.

And got there and thought they needed more, some of us second generation guys to, Japanese second generation guys to go to language school. So they sent us over to Fort Snelling, Minnesota, and things were changing pretty rapidly then, and so, let's see, that was in the fall. Then Intelligence went over, come to Fort Snelling and wanted some people to, GIs to go into intelligence school, counterintelligence school. So a bunch of us signed up for that, and ended up an intelligence school there in Baltimore, Maryland, it was out there in the industrial section so you'd never know that there was a school there. It was where we took our counterintelligence training. I think it was sixteen weeks, that was really an interesting time. I think we spent some time, we went over to Indianapolis at the naval academy... no, it's not Indianapolis. Anyway, the naval...

Off camera: Annapolis.

PS: Annapolis, okay. And I remember going on to... I was taking training there, went to Fort Meade, Maryland, to get some special training there. One of the things I was introduced to was to drive a duck, one of those six-wheel amphibious rigs. And why I was chosen to learn how to drive that, I'll never know. But anyway, it was a fun experience. And things we... really an interesting time, the things we were taught and the things we were exposed to. But anyway, one of the things we ended up doing was part of our test to see how good we were at surveillance, they turned us loose in Baltimore, and we were supposed to practice surveillance. Anyway, Baltimore at that time at a place called the Block, I guess it was, they had more bars on that one block than any other block in the United States. Turned out to be kind of a fun day, to say the least.

Anyway, so that was... finished that training in May, I think, and we were sent over to Japan for the occupation over there. Started out in Tokyo and then went to Kyoto, and then I ended up in Kumamoto and did some interrogation. Of course, we studied some Japanese language, but I had to have an interpreter when I wanted to question anybody. It wasn't too long after I got there, the captain there, he says he wanted me to question somebody, I can't remember what it was now. I told him I didn't know the language, and he looked at me and then he said, "Okay." [Laughs] Kind of an embarrassing thing, but then I didn't get kicked out of there, so I guess it was all right. Anyway, I remember part of my duty there, I made a couple of courier runs, one from Kumamoto to Nagasaki, I don't remember how far I was now, and jump in the jeep by yourself with a .45 strapped to your side. And I remember taking a, making a run up to Fukuoka, that was a little distance.

Then from there, oh, stayed there in Kumamoto for... got there in July, in July, I think it was. And then went to, I was there for about... July, August, September, and October I think I went over to, sent over to Sasebo, the port city of Sasebo. I may be off on my months there. But anyway, I was there for a couple of months. Some of the kids, the fellows that I went through, intelligence school, why, we'd get together. One of the guys came down from... I don't remember where he was stationed now, but we got together one weekend there in Kumamoto. He was from Denver, fellow by the name of Larry Goto from Denver, and he's passed on several years ago. Then Takasumi, he was a CIC agent also, but he was in Kagoshima. I can't remember, but I think I got together with him one weekend. But anyway, at Sasebo, we were out running around one day, and we wanted to eat some, see these dried persimmons and wanted to get some because we liked them. And we were riding around and we saw this one store, I guess, had some displayed on the window there. One of the guys says, "Let's stop and get some." I don't remember the conversation, anyway, I don't remember how much we paid for 'em or anything, just gave him some money. I don't remember if we gave 'em yen or dollars. Anyway, we got probably three or four. But that's about the only thing I remember. We had that urge to try some of those dried persimmons, and we found some. So we were able to get 'em, and I don't know whether we paid a fair price or not. But anyway, things were really tough for the Japanese people at that time. I think that particular incident, I think we gave 'em enough money to cover the price of those dried persimmons. If a person has never had a chance to eat dried persimmons, I think they're missing something. They're so tasty to my way of thinking.

Anyway, let's see... I think I was there 'til probably the middle of December, maybe early part of December. And then my time was up, so I left Sasebo. But the darndest thing, my relatives in Fukushima-ken, Fukushima city, had heard that, I guess my folks had told them that I was stationed in Japan, and so they traveled down from Fukushima city, down to Sasebo to meet me. And when they got down there, I had left the day before to come back home. I had the option of signing over to become a warrant officer if I signed over, but I thought I'd rather get home rather than stay in the military any longer. Anyway, so I headed back home and went to, got back up to Zama, what was it, the army camp there near Tokyo. And I can't remember what the deal was. Anyway, a bunch of us rented, got a jeep to go in the town or something, into Tokyo. But anyway, it was December, so it was wet and damp and cold. We had some blankets with us. But anyway, going back to camp, the army camp... anyway, we stopped to get something to eat or something, I can't remember now, but got back out to the jeep and the blankets were gone. Didn't matter much, as we remember, because those folks didn't have a whole lot. The Japanese people back then were really suffering, so we says, "Oh, well, they probably need it worse than we do."

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

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PS: Anyway, came back on a nice ship that was a passenger ship rather than the victory ship or whatever it was that I went over on. But this one coming back, it was a converted passenger ship, so it was a nice trip back. I remember on Christmas Day, I was going through Portland on a train up to Fort Lewis. But I got home just before New Year's, I think it was. I flew from Seattle to Boise in one of those DC-3s. That was pretty good transportation back then. But anyway, that terminated my military life, and ready to start a new chapter. I wanted to get back to farming, I guess. Amongst other things, I thought I'd like to go to college.

So in the fall of 1937, I did go to Oregon State College on the GI Bill. Best thing I ever did, I think. I met my wife down there. Of course, I knew her from before the war, because they were an old family in the area. Back in those days, why, she was younger than I, so I didn't pay that much attention to the younger kids. And, but that's the way things were. But caught up with her at the college. She was a junior at that time, she was a home ec. major. Let's see now... there was a leap year in there somewhere. '58, I guess, it was. Well, anyway, I remember they would have these leap year dances, and the girls asked the guys. My wife, Sumi, she asked me to one of those dances and made me a corsage. I guess that was the thing we did. But anyway, it had three cigars in it, and I thought, "Now there's a gal that I could live with." [Laughs] But anyway, I was a smoker. I've never smoked a pack of cigarettes in my life, but I started out after high school before I went in the service. I bought some pipes and I started smoking pipes and still at it. But since I got exposed to cigars back then, that's been my main smoke ever since then. [Laughs] So I guess, looking back at it, I've been smoking for over sixty years. And like I say, I've never smoked a pack of cigarettes in my life. I don't know whether there's a... well, I guess the people that don't like cigarettes claim that what's bad is the cigarettes, but anyway... I've enjoyed my smoking, even though I can't smoke in the house or anything like that. But the good thing is my mother-in-law says she sure liked the smell of cigars. [Laughs] So that was kind of a different thing to have my mother-in-law tell me that. Of course, she'd tell me if I didn't look, my hair wasn't combed right, she'd tell me I need to go comb my hair, too. Fun things, good things in life.

Anyway, the first year through college, '47, '48, and then the second year, somewhere along the line... well, I think I was in freshman year, maybe in the spring. Brother Abe, since I didn't draw any wages or anything during all those wartime years of work, he bought me a car. It was a '47 Chev convertible. So one weekend I went home and got that, and so that was quite the thing, to have wheels like that. So we started going back and forth, had that car for a while. Some of the kids from over here offered him transportation, and they guy said six of us could crowd in that little convertible coming home on breaks. But my wife at that time, and a friend that, she was trying to arrange it so we could get acquainted. But anyway, it didn't turn out that way. It got so that I got to talking more with my wife. Anyway, it turned out that we traveled back and forth together, and it worked out beautifully.

So we got married in, two days after Christmas, 1948. Then driving back to school, I think it's still in December. We got up to Baker and the road where snowed in, so we had to stay overnight, there one night, and the next day we took a chance and drove through the bad weather, snow drifts. So I guess that's where I got my experience of driving through, that's my start of driving through nasty weather. But anyway, made it back in good shape. Then we get back to Corvallis, and, of course, there's flood waters there. The Willamette River was flooding. So what little house we had down there at college was across the river from the college. So when that river flooded, why, we got to drive back clear around through Albany and across the Willamette River at Albany. But those little inconveniences, we made it through.

Anyway, I stayed out one term, I can't remember which one it was now, but anyway, my wife graduated in 1948. And after that, why, being a married man, I guess I thought I'd better start making a living. And so that was the end of my college life. Let's see, I think about the middle of 1948, we moved up into the house where we're now living. So we've been in that house, after several remodelings, we've been in that house ever since. Then we had our first child, twins, in December, I guess it was the day after Christmas, '48. Anyway, that was, created quite a bit of excitement and the beginning of our family.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

PS: I've had the opportunity to get involved in a lot of things after I started farming. I guess since I grew up on a farm, and that's been my big interest, amongst getting involved and interested in church, I became a member of the Community Methodist Church I think in January 1941. I don't know, we have a list of everything in the church 50th anniversary book. But that was my start in church. I participated in different levels of church down through the years, and Sunday school superintendent trustees, just a lot of, every phase of it. Anyway, it's been an important part of our lives. And I think especially so since my wife's parents are the ones who were instrumental in getting the Community Methodist Church started. My wife's been the Sunday school teacher for a number of years. But anyway, down through the years, it's been a big part of our lives. And I got, since I was kind of active in the church really early, the county started up a mental health clinic. And at that particular time, there was a lot of discussion about the young people need somewhere or somebody to go to for some professional help. And so I got on the mental health board.

And from there I was involved in JACL. Let's see, then I think about 1956 or somewhere in there, the governor of Idaho signed a law that rescinded the Alien Land Law restricting aliens from owning property. I think I was, must have been JACL president at that time. Anyway, I went down to witness that signing, and I was hoping that I could find my picture of that signing. I know it was in the Statesman at that time, but I thought it'd be a picture that would be appropriate in our cultural center here in Ontario. But I never have been able to track one down.

Let's see, then, oh, maybe a little later I served on the local school board for probably twenty years, and my wife started working there at the school as a clerk. Then I got involved in the onion industry on some of the committees. I remember 1970 was a poor price year, so the committee wanted a couple people to go to the markets in New York and Boston to see what was going on. So I went with Phil Batt, who was a big onion man in the area, and went to Hunts Point, the produce market there in New York, and then also up to Boston produce market there. And it was amazing to me to see the warehouse in Boston with no forklifts. Everything was still done by hand trucks. And I guess it was a situation where maybe the unions controlled that kind of handling up there. I thought that was so outdated, those were the times when everybody was trying to get things mechanized.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

And then I guess I was involved in potato, local potato growers group, also in the county, I was interested in what was going on at the experiment station here. We have a good experiment station, and so I was interested in that. One of the things, I guess it was a nice, chairman of the export, onion export committee. One of the things we were trying to determine is how to get a better container to ship overseas, especially in the Asian markets. So we'd conduct some experiments out here at the container, how to get a better box, and how to, what kind of temperatures or humidity control and that kind of thing to determine what's the best way to market them, and get 'em in the containers and get 'em to arrive in good shape.

Let's see... I remember traveling around with the onion industry, and I became chairman of that committee. I had occasion to travel to the eastern Pacific Rim countries. I went to Taiwan, and we were shipping onions there, and the arrivals weren't very good. And so I sure got my ears chewed out on that deal, but it was kind of a thing that, trying to work through ways to make arrivals better. And went over to Japan to look at their onion industry, and we were shipping some over there, too. But they were very particular, importing the kind of product they wanted. There weren't, growers in this country just weren't quite used to being that particular. And didn't have quite the right varieties, but anyway, trying to work through those kinds of things. And went to a food show in Singapore, a very interesting place. One of the most interesting things about going in, flying into Singapore is when you get off a plane and you see these policemen carrying these automatic pistols with signs in red letters: "Anybody caught with narcotics will be shot." And it grabs your attention real quick. Of course, they have real strict laws, like no cigarettes, you can't throw the cigarettes out on the street. I can't remember all the restrictions they had, but it was a different place, and it was clean. In spite of what you thought about their laws, the place was very clean. Anyway, tried to get some product down into there, and really an experience.

Another place was to go into Mexico City. It's been hard for U.S. growers to get much of a product, onion product into Mexico. Anyway, but then we went to Mexico City's produce market, and it's huge. I guess it's one of the largest in world. Anyway, one of the residents there, the markets, sometimes they'll have a million people go through the place in one day. It's just hard to imagine that many people. It's a large place. Anyway, it was an interesting place to visit because they were still rebuilding some of the places after that big earthquake they had. But it was an opportunity to visit with people from other countries. In Taiwan I had a good experience there in spite of being chewed out for having, receiving some bad onions there. But one of the fellows there was educated, went to University of Ohio -- I can't remember for sure -- but anyway, very fluent in English. And so he took me around in Taiwan, and even had an opportunity to go out and hit a golf ball. But that's one of the fun things that, in spite of all the other problems, one of the fun things I had to do.

One time I was going to Mexico, I was going to take a box of onions with me. And I got down to the customs and they wouldn't let me take them from there. So I lost that. But that's the kind of things you run into. I thought about offering the customs agent there something so I could get through, get that box of onions through, but I thought, god, if I didn't do it right, could backfire on me. So I thought I'd better mind my p's and q's and do it right. So anyway, I lost that box of onions.

Anyway, that's one of the good things I had a chance to experience. And also I was appointed to the Oregon Board of Agriculture by Governor Atiyeh. That was a great experience. One of the neat things about the Oregon Board of Agriculture is they have four meetings, generally four meetings a year, and the meetings have to be anyplace in the state where there's agriculture. And so if you haven't... once you get on the board, you have an opportunity to travel all over the state and see different areas, and a tremendous education. People in the Willamette Valley have no idea what's over in Malheur County. And I think that's one of the good things in Oregon's Department of Agriculture. One of the things I thought would be good for members of the board is there's always somebody taking pictures. And I thought as the person leaves the board, it would be nice to give them a little photo album of their years of participation. But somewhere along that line that thing died. But anyway, I think I made a motion, something to that effect. And it was approved, but somewhere along the line after that, why, it got lost in the shuffle. That was really quite an experience for anybody serving on the board to be able to travel around and see the... well, you see everything in the state that way. But anyway, I had the opportunity to serve there for eight years. I don't know.

I guess I've had... received some recognition from the Malheur Experiment Station in appreciation for the interest I've shown there. I received a little plaque. One of the things I got involved in after I retired from farming, I got involved in rejuvenating the Malheur County Noxious Weed Program. That was an old program in the county to control noxious weeds. I went to the County Commissioner, the judge, and see if we couldn't get it reactivated to where it'd be more effective. So we put a weed program together, a committee, and worked with the BLM, they have such a large area here in Malheur County, Baker, and Harney County. Anyway, we put a program together to work with the BLM, and since the county is so big, there was a problem trying to control the noxious weeds down in the southern part of Malheur County especially along the highways. Anyway, so it finally ended up that we were able to put a program together that involved the BLM and the county and the Oregon Highway Department working together so the highway would be taken care of by the Oregon Highway Department down in that part of the, southern part of the state. And I guess it was the first program like that where you get three different cooks working together. Anyway, it's worked out pretty well. And now there's a real concerted effort all over the Northwest, I think, in controlling noxious weeds. There was quite an extensive program going on, but then it's never had much priority and so the funding was never strong. And Idahoans had a real problem with noxious weeds, and now they've, in the last few years, have made a real concerted effort to make some progress and get rid of noxious weeds that are detrimental to cattle and farming. Some of the weeds that are rough on combines and that kind of thing, you have to control it, or else you lose your, you can't even farm the ground. But anyway, fortunately, making some progress on that.

Ag is a tough business. I remember at a meeting one time, one of the ag people was speaking about being in, speaking at a university in Pennsylvania, how important agriculture is. He says one gal spoke up and says, "We don't need you farmers. We can go to the grocery store to get our products." Anyway, that was back in the '60s, I think, when there was a lot of that kind of thing. I guess it maybe was the time of the Vietnam War and if they didn't like it, they'd speak their mind. But anyway, agriculture has taken its licks. I think even nowadays, if you're going to be in agriculture, well, that's a dirty job, dirty occupation. And news people see that that's why we need migrant workers, because most Americans won't work out in the fields, that kind of thing. Well, I guess they just like to imply that farming is a dirty business. Anyway, I hope we'd be able to keep agriculture a viable business in this country where people won't have to depend upon import products for everything.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

AC: You grew up in Carver. Tell me a little bit more. You said it was a great place to be a kid, where did you go to school?

PS: Well, they had a little grade school there, two-room school, two teachers. I think it was two teachers, maybe it was one teacher back when I first started the first grade. Boy, I think it was a two-teacher school, I'm not sure now. But it was, you know, I really can't remember too much about it now, but they built a new school since then, and the area has changed considerably. I remember participating in a Christmas program, I must have been a first grader or second grader. But I had a part singing a Christmas song. I started out all right, but then some kid yelled or cried in the back, and that ended that. I couldn't sing anymore. [Laughs] But anyway, just a little grade school, and we were probably, oh, fifteen miles from Oregon City, that's where brother Abe had gone to high school, and brother Joe, he was the oldest son, so he had to help market this, the wet market in Portland. That was about the way it was. Nice little grade school.

AC: What kind of crops did your farm, did you raise on your farm in Carver?

PS: Oh, folks grew vegetables. Let's see, peas, carrots, bunching carrots, washing and bunching carrots, parsnips. Gosh, I don't know. I can't remember the other things. Let's see, must have had some lettuce, spinach, and maybe some cabbage, too. I can't remember. I remember the peas because we had to string them, set out the poles and string them up. I think we had some berries, too, some currants, that's about all I can remember of those.

AC: So was it the expectation that all the boys help out in the farm?

PS: Yes, yes. Well, that's the way things were back then. I remember during, well, it was the Depression days back there at Carver, some of the folks come out in the wintertime and help wash up parsnips and that kind of thing. All they wanted was some of the vegetables to eat, and got paid a dollar. That's one of the things I do remember, how tough things were. I remember there was a gas station sign there at Carver, and I remember it, I don't know if my brother challenged it, is my recollection on that, but it was nine cents a gallon. It was so cheap, that's why I think I can still remember it as opposed to our two dollars a gallon nowadays. Of course, you remember some of the pay, a dollar a day or something like that back then, as opposed to wages nowadays in agriculture. That's just the way things were. Everybody was trying to eke out a living and recover from the Depression.

AC: So did you ever have to go and help taking the vegetables to market or anything like that?

PS: No, I didn't. Let's see, I think I just turned twelve when we moved over here. I was more interested in running around up in the hills and getting nettles and poison oak and that kind of thing.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

AC: So what kind of things did you do when you ran around through the woods?

PS: Oh, let's see. Shoot squirrels, that kind of thing. One of the things that was, we used to peel cascara bark, and there was a drugstore in Oregon City that would buy it, and that's how my brother Abe bought his first .22 rifle, he peeled enough cascara bark and sold it to the drugstore, and got enough to buy a .22 rifle. That was a big deal back in those days. Another thing I... some of the friends, brother's friends, they were older than I, but one of them had a ten-gauge shotgun and they were trying to get my brother to shoot it. So he finally says, "Okay, I'll give it a try." And there was a bird sitting on a log, maybe a hundred feet away, they told my brother, "Shoot a that bird over there." And so he finally got it up to his shoulder, fired that thing, and it sounded like a cannon. Missed the bird, it was a sawed-off ten-gauge, and anyway, it was something that everybody just laughed their head off about. But it was one of those things that kids do. We were very careful about handling the gun and that kind of thing. Everybody worries about how to handle a gun nowadays especially. But I think back then all the kids learned their lessons pretty darn early, and learned the dangers of firearms. Because I don't think any of us back then, around there, nobody ever got hurt from shooting a .22 or whatever they were using.

You wonder what I did down there as a kid, well, in the summertime we'd go fishing. The water flow on the Clackamas was controlled up there at Estacada, and so the water flow at our place would change at about, close to lunchtime. And so... I can't remember which way it was, but it increased after lunch. Yeah, it increased after lunch, and so if you went out in the morning you could find these little pools, there might be a fish in one of these little pools, and so that was exciting, to catch a little salmon or something. But then I remember one time, caught one of those, trapped one of those salmon and had a heck of a time trying to get him back to the other side of the river, because the water was raising. But anyway, one of the fun things... it's just one of those things that was a heck of an experience for a kid. You about drown sometimes, but I guess you hope that you... when you look back somewhere along the line, you learned the lesson well enough to keep from drowning. Because I remember once, it was the summertime, and down at the village of Carver, there was a place where people could swim, a dock, and swim in that clear mountain water. I was there one time, and this one fellow had drowned, and they had him on the boat dock there trying to revive him, but I guess they didn't get him revived. But that was a real lesson for me early on in my life, what can happen if you're not thinking. And so I had to run home and tell my parents about it. That's one of those things, as a kid, it sticks in the back of your mind. And most people probably aren't familiar with that particular part of the Clackamas River. But anyway, there's lots of places for kids to have fun and get up on top of the bank, and throw things in the river. And the hazard there is you've got to be careful you don't fall off a bank and into the river. There was always that excitement of throwing things, and you always had to be careful that you didn't throw yourself over the bank. But that's the fun kind of things kids did. You're testing yourself all the time growing up.

AC: You had mentioned that your brother had gathered, what kind of bark was it?

PS: Cascara.

AC: Cascara. What was it used for?

PS: I don't know. We gathered the bark, and the drugstores used it for... hmm, you know, I don't know. But it was an accepted thing back in those days. I don't even remember how much they paid for it. But that was one of the things that was available to kids at that time. It was always a kind of a fun thing to go out in the summer and spring to gather that, peel that bark.

AC: How would you gather it?

PS: You find the particular variety of tree, I don't even know what kind of a tree it was now, but it had to be a certain kind. But anyway, took a knife, and you peel the bark off and put it in a bag and let it dry for a while, and take it into the drugstore. I was still probably... I didn't know enough about what went on then, so I couldn't tell you, I can't tell you very much about it, except that the profit went into buying 'em a .22 rifle, one of those big deals.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

AC: How would you describe your father?

PS: Well, he was a rugged individual, I think. He worked in the sawmills at one time, and I say "rugged" because he got part of his ear cut off working in the mill. And I guess maybe that cured him from working in those sawmills, and so he got a farm, started farming. But I think it's about the time when my mother was carrying me as one of the twins, before I was born. He got kicked by a horse, so he was in the hospital recovering, and so the neighbors had to come and help out. He was a pretty rugged individual, I think, worked hard, and he liked to drink once in a while. But he wasn't a drunkard as I remember it. I don't know, others may have a different recollection of him, but that's the way I remember it. I think he was probably in the military when he was a younger person, maybe up in Manchuria. I don't know. It was something he hardly ever talked about. But he had learned some English from being over here, so he was a strong individual. But the accident he had being kicked, and then smoking roll your own, and maybe some of his drinking, anyway, the combinations weren't that good on him, so he passed away in 1949. Yeah, I think that's the way it was.

AC: What did he like to drink?

PS: Sake, I think. I think that was what most of the Isseis, the first generation, I think that's about what they had exposure to. I think they brewed their own, and maybe if they felt wealthy enough, they'd go buy some whiskey or something. That's about the way I remember it.

AC: Did your dad make his own sake, brew his own sake?

PS: No, I don't remember. I kind of think he did. It wasn't a big thing in our family, so I don't know. Seemed like there's be a jug of sake sitting around the house, and where it came from, I don't know. I wasn't curious enough, I guess. I remember at some parties, why, there'd be a little bit left, sake in somebody's cup, and I'd sneak it. I guess to this day, I get red in the face drinking sake. It just doesn't agree with me. I'm allergic to alcohol. Even in the military, after I finished a counterintelligence session, we had a party, and I drank so many beers that night that I just can't drink beer ever since. But, of course, back then, I think the beer, during the military, the beer was pretty green and it didn't matter. You just got a hold of some and drank it. That was a thing that was going on then. But I've got my allergies to it, anyway. And it's probably a good thing I can't drink, even to this day. I'll take a sip of scotch, that's it, that's about my limit. Like my brother-in-law, Dr. Gus, says, the Japanese, American Indians, and the Irish are allergic to alcohol because of a lack of some enzyme in their systems. I guess it's true, because they used to talk about American Indians always getting red, and it's true, some of the Irish, too. I'm one of those individuals that can't handle that alcohol.

AC: So when did your father immigrate to the United States?

PS: I don't know. Maybe... did you happen to ask that of my brother this morning? [Laughs] Oh, gosh. I just don't know.

AC: How would you describe your mother?

PS: That's an interesting question. My father, I think, grew up in the same community over in Fukushima city, that particular area. I guess my mother... she always said her mother was a saint, because the father was kind of a community drunk as I understand it. She always was a strong woman and took care of him. And I guess that my mother got that kind of a strong character from her mother. She never was one, not to complain, she accepted things as they come, and always tried to look on the bright side. Always hard working. She had some... I think she went to the sixth grade or something in school. She had a strong character, strong beliefs. I remember when my brother Joe and I both went off into the service, one of the things she, last things she said was, "Sekai no tame ni." And loosely translated, I guess it would be, "Do something good for the world." And Brother and I used to, have talked about it down through the years, and kind of made fun of it, but still, it's a pretty strong statement that we remember her saying. At least for me it's one of the things that I remember pretty well. "Don't lie, don't dishonor your family's name," that kind of thing. The last thing she said when I went off to service, "Sekai no tame ni." Strange kind of things that you remember. [Laughs]

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

AC: So in 1934 you made this epic journey in the middle of winter from Carver to Ontario, it took you three days.

PS: Yeah. Well, it's interesting now. You still have an opportunity in places to travel the old highways, especially around the Columbia River. You can still drive up around Crown Point, that's on the old highway, and travel along the mountain area on a narrow original highway. And I would recommend it to anybody, because it's, shows what kind of road that we used to have in that time, in that period of time. And as you come east, most of the old highway is gone. There's probably a few places where they still have the old highway. I think the Blue Mountains, all that old highway is gone, around east of Baker there's still an old section of highway there, and there's some old stone homes, buildings that are still standing. I can remember going by those when I moved over here. The old stone homes that are probably, oh, ten miles east of Acre. And I can remember when we first broke over, coming along the Snake River there, and could see the town of Weiser, we could still see the, I remember seeing the wheat elevator there in Weiser, and it still stands. It was quite a site, because coming over, there was a mountain road, and then you come into a flat section of country and then see an elevator and feel like civilization again. But, yeah, that was a real experience of driving over at that time.

AC: Here you were, a young boy leaving all your friends behind and coming to this totally, place you didn't know anything about. How did you feel about doing all that?

PS: Well, I guess being a kid, it was an adventure, a place where we came to at that time, Watanabes, they had apple orchards, and there was a couple of brothers there. And the Watanabe family, let's see, there's one, two, three, four, four brothers there at that time, and I think the youngest brother, I don't think he was born yet. Anyway, we got acquainted with those brothers, the younger brothers my age, real quick, and so it was the beginning of a new life.

AC: You said one of the things you did once you arrived here was you made pea shooters and started shooting them at bullfrogs. How did you make one of those?

PS: [Laughs] That's a thing a kid would do, you know. You find a little branch with a Y in it and that was the base of your bean shooter. Then you'd find some old inner tubes, and depending on how fancy you wanted to get, you generally found a little piece of leather, that was generally the thing you used, is a little pocket, the pocket was made out of leather, and then you're trying to find some good inner tubes so you can make rubber bands out of it, and then become a big hunter. So it was a fun thing, see if you could hit a bird or find an old house that you could break out a window, that kind of thing. [Laughs] It's just kids growing up, that's the kind of thing, well, they still do, don't they? Breaking, shooting out windows? But anyway, that was an adventurous thing to do, see what kind of weapon you could build, and just not knowing a whole lot about damage control or anything, just shoot at something, whatever you could find, cats or chickens. If you hit 'em, it wouldn't do too much damage, that was the good thing about it, except if you hit a glass, then that was, you could break a glass pretty easily. Anyway, that's the kind of thing that us kids did, get a little fishline and go out and see if we can catch some fish, see if we can go out and fish without falling in the water. Back then, if we went fishing with the neighbor kid or somebody, I don't think the folks knew where I went, or my mother didn't know where I went. So I had to be careful that I didn't get into trouble.

AC: Well, how were you disciplined?

PS: Oh, quite often. [Laughs] I got scolded, and, of course, since I had a couple of older brothers, they made pretty sure that I didn't get in trouble. Being the oldest, was brought up in the old method, the oldest son had the responsibility. If he told his younger brother to do something, well, you did it. I think that's the way us kids grew up. I tried to do things the way they were supposed to be done, and if we didn't, got out of line, why, it was brought to our attention real quick. I think, my Dad, he wanted to get after us some time, and Mother would be right there to protect us. And so that was the way things were. But Dad would let us know if we were out of line very much. Of course, we had no way of letting him know when he was drinking too much. But I remember coming back from Portland one time and he had been drinking with friends, and never quite made it home, ended up in the bar pit. Of course, it was walking distance from home, so it wasn't bad. It was a good life, though.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

AC: On this farm, you had horses, and you said you were pulling float across the field. What do you mean by that?

PS: Oh, that was a wooden float made out of boards, probably, maybe sixteen, eighteen, twenty foot, just a rectangular arrangement. That's what we used two teams of horses, and so it was pulled across the field at an angle instead of two teams pulling it straight, one team was farther ahead, so the thing was always pulled at an angle, and it would smooth, keep the ground rolling and smooth the ground out. And it was, I don't know who, it was a homemade thing, and somebody had built, got the idea around here early. I don't know whose idea it was, but it worked real well. So brother Abe wasn't much into doing that kind of thing, and so I worked with Joe driving one team of horses. And I think back, it was interesting how horses can be trained to work together like that. So Joe was the one who always did the cultivating onions and beets and spuds back in those days with a team of horses. But I think back how those horses would know where to walk all the time, and how to turn around with a cultivator. So if you had a good team of horses, and we had a good team, it was kind of a pleasure to work with good animals. Of course, it was up to the guy that trained them to do what they were supposed to, but I think back, and I kind of marvel at how well they were behaved. At that time, a good team was so important to have around.

AC: You said you were plowing, the first time you started plowing for potatoes, you broke the tongue of the plow. How did you do that?

PS: Oh, that was, the potato and corn cultivator, you'd cultivate one row at a time. And so the team would straddle the row of corn or potatoes, and so you'd come to the end and you'd raise a cultivator by hand, and then you'd turn around and you'd get the thing turned around. So in this particular case when I broke the tongue, the thing went into a drain ditch, a little drain ditch, I think, as I remember rightly, and the horse kept backing up slowly. But anyway, the cultivator wouldn't move back with him, so the tongue broke. That was one of the lessons, good lessons I learned early on.

AC: Were these large horses? What kind of horses were these?

PS: Oh, they were good sized farm horses. The male horse was a nice roan colored animal, a real good horse, and the other, she wasn't as big, but then, anyway, made a good team. And then the other team, I don't even remember, I just remember the two horses that we used to cultivate, and the other two we used for ground work, I can't remember what the other pair of horses were like. I just thought that roan-colored horse, he was such a pretty animal. And anyway, I don't know what breed he was, a big draft horse. Just a good animal as I remember it.

AC: So when you broke the tongue, what did you do?

PS: I guess I had to leave the thing just sitting there, and then I went to the house and told my dad about it. So he or Joe, I can't remember now who, but either they fixed it some way, but that was the end of my experience of cultivating spuds. Anyway, at that point in time, it was getting to where, well, we had a tractor, too, by then. And so we were starting to get into cultivating with tractors. And one of the funny things I can remember is this one family bought a tractor, but they weren't real enthused about it, 'cause if you've got a cultivator on a tractor, how can you watch both sides as you're going down through the field. And so they bought a cultivator and just put it on one side, on a tricycle tractor, they were designed so you could put a cultivator on both sides, you can cultivate two rows at a time rather than... the idea was so you could cultivate more. But anyway, this family just ordered a cultivator for one side, and that was... I thought that isn't why you buy a tractor, to cultivate one row at a time. Anyway, so that was getting started with mechanical machines at that time.

AC: So you had this tractor and you said you had these skeleton wheels with just the iron wheels, but you also had the wheels which were rubber. When would you use just the skeleton wheels?

PS: Well, that was for cultivating early on, in the spring you put those one, and the idea is if you put rubber tires on back then, the idea was that you're gonna pack the ground so much that water won't soak in, just ruin the ground. That was the theory at that time. And so that's when we used the iron wheels just to do spring cultivating. And then later on in the summer, why then you'd take those off and put those heavy wheels with the rubber tires on it. That was the beginning of that kind of farming. It was quite an experience. If you don't know anything about early tractors, John Deere had one that was a four-speed forward, and International had one that was a four-speed, too. But the way John Deere set up, it would go faster in reverse in high gear than you could go forward. So it wasn't uncommon to see farmers going down the road backwards, because they could go faster. And then, of course, the little farms, International tractors, they wouldn't go as fast. And so, but that's just the way they were geared. But that was kind of a crazy thing where you could, has a low and high in that John Deere, low high shifter that you could put it in high range and reverse and it'd go faster down the road backwards than it would forward. But one of those float kinds of things.

AC: So did it have an electric starter or hand starter?

PS: No, back then, everything was cranked. It was a conversion from going from... the idea was to have it as simple as possible.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

AC: In high school you said you played football, and you were after this guy, and you got knocked silly. Did you just... what happened?

PS: Oh, I guess that particular time the coach was telling me, it was in practice, so he says, "You got to stop these guys that's carrying the ball." I was in the line, and I was a little shrimp. But anyway, so here he comes with carrying the ball, I thought, "I'm going to get him," and so I ran head on into him, not head off to the side or anything like that, I just hit him square on. It's a wonder I didn't break my fool neck. But anyway, 'cause about that time, one of the players over in, playing for Nampa High School, playing football, but on a tackle, I guess he tackled somebody, or got hit, I don't remember the details, but anyway, got his neck broken. And so that was quite a thing back then. Well, it would be anytime, but to be killed playing football. But that was his demise. And I think about it, I've thought about it afterwards, too, that that could have been me. Stupid enough to hit somebody head on like that. But that was what I was gonna do, I was gonna stop that ball carrier. But it sure knocked me silly. But anyway, I have friends playing football at that time, too. We laugh about that kind of thing, but he says, my friend says, "You can never play football getting knocked silly." But he's a halfback or something, but anyway, he made a couple touchdowns by being knocked silly like that. I guess he just lost his inhibitions or something, and anyway, he just went wild and made several touchdowns. But he said he thinks he was knocked silly. But anyway, it's strange things that can happen.

AC: You said you were also part of the glee club and the band. What did you did in the glee club and what did instrument did you play?

PS: [Laughs] Oh boy, didn't that sound strange? But anyway, like I said, the instructor was a real good teacher, and a friend of mine talked me into it. And so we gave it a try, and, well, the three of us brothers back then were exposed to a friend that had sold, I think he had a store of musical, sold musical instruments. And brother Joe, he got a trombone, and Abe played the clarinet, and I got a hold of a tenor saxophone. And this friend who was a music man, had his own orchestra, I think, was the one that encouraged us to try to learn music, make music. Gosh, I can't even think of his name now. But he and his brother, real nice guys, and they wanted us to get into some music. So that's how we got started there. But after a few years of that, we got into other things, I think, maybe we were getting into judo about that time, too. And so the music part of it went by the wayside. But I still like music, and I guess when I was overseas, the Armed Forces Radio Service after midnight or something like that would play all this classical music. To this day I like classical music. Anyway, that was the end of our high school music back then.

AC: What was the glee club and what did you do for the glee club?

PS: Oh, I sang tenor, tried to. [Laughs] But anyway, maybe that only lasted a year, I can't remember now. I tried it, and that wasn't my thing.

AC: But you were a member of the Future Farmers of America, and in your senior project you went, you took the trip from here all the way into Corvallis to go to Oregon Agricultural College and you stayed at a frat, and you were there for several days. What was that like?

PS: Oh, well, I think we had to behave ourselves. But they had little, I think there was kids from all over, and FFA kids from all over the state. They had little projects set up. I can't remember all the things now, but one of the things I remember, they had a little tractor, Ferguson tractor, I think it was, and we were supposed to be able to start it up, hook up to a trailer and back it into a parking area, and take it back to the original position. And that was something I liked to do, so that's one of things I remember, and I think they had projects like for saddling a horse, several different things like that. I just don't remember it all, but it was an opportunity to see how good you can do something like that. It was a fun thing.

AC: Well, you said at the end of the time, no one had any money left. What were you spending your money on?

PS: Well, we never had very much to start with, but we had enough to buy something to eat, enough to buy gas. I think coming home, we stopped, I think we came through Portland, but going over, I think we took, went through central Oregon, gosh, I can't even remember now. I think we went through central Oregon going, and coming back, we come through Portland. So one night we just found a place to, we slept in the car, because we didn't have money to go to a restaurant. Or maybe we had money to eat and gas, but we didn't have enough money for a place to stay. So I think we just slept in the car. It's a thing kids can do, and it worked out fine. We laugh about it.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

AC: So in 1941 when Pearl Harbor was bombed, did you even know where Pearl Harbor was?

PS: Oh, yeah, I think we did, 'cause about that time, Brother Joe was saying he was going overseas, so we started paying attention to that kind of thing. Yeah, I think we did.

AC: You were sitting in the Santos' living room, they had their Philco, their brand new Philco, and you heard this announcement after Sunday school. How did you feel?

PS: Well, it was just, it never... probably at that time it never dawned on us that it was such a big deal. And so I think at the time we went back over to the church to tell people what had happened, I couldn't believe it. And so at that time, I guess it was no big deal to us. We were educated, born and educated in this country, so I just kind of accepted it at that particular time. We went to school here, and we were all accepted by our kids, the kids at school, and friends. So it wasn't that big of a deal at that particular time.

AC: But shortly afterwards, you started seeing signs, "No Japs Allowed."

PS: Yeah, yeah.

AC: How did that make you feel?

PS: Oh, we probably felt some disgust. I guess in our own mind and thinking, we weren't one of the "Japs." I don't know, it probably hit a lot of people, well, people in a different way. I remember brother Abe, it really got to him. Fortunately, he didn't get into any trouble, but he didn't like it at all. I guess it just didn't bother me that much at that particular time. But it started to sink in later, I think, especially after the evacuation order, and people started moving into our area. And since the relocation, we had one of the relocation camps at Minidoka, which is about 150 miles from here on east, maybe 175 miles, but then all these people started living out here and then came out to our area to work. There was some... I don't know if there's any real nasty things that went on, at least I don't remember it. Well, I think like my father-in-law went to a barber in Vale, and the barber shop there, he put up a sign, I can't remember, he sat and was waiting to get his hair cut, and finally the barber there told him he couldn't serve him anymore. And I guess that's one of the closest things that I can remember. And I'm sure there are... oh, I remember, had a fellow here in Ontario that, he worked at the garage, service manager, something, anyway, parts manager. But anyway, I think he had a dislike for Orientals. Anyway, one Saturday I remember he come up to me, "Hey, how about giving me twenty bucks? I need some money." So, yeah, okay, I just happened to have some money then, and I gave it to him. That's the last I ever saw of that. But he just took advantage of me. But I never made any issue out of it, it's just one of the things I remember. I think that's probably the only time I was ever taken advantage of. I knew him, too, but maybe he thought I was... well, he just took advantage of me. I think that's about the only time I can remember any incident like that.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

AC: So at that time, Abe was the person who was, he was basically the farmer when your father wasn't doing well, health, and he basically took over farming? Get up at like four in the morning.

PS: Yeah, well, he was a hard worker. He used to do that as a kid over there when we were still on the Clackamas River. Well, maybe just starting high school, but somewhere along the line he just got to doing those kinds of things. Middle child, I don't know if it was middle child syndrome or what, but he got a reputation for his hard work, and I guess he liked that and that's what he did. He was a hard worker. Didn't matter, later, when we were farming over here, and I had to haul all the onions that we raised, we hauled them ourselves, and he got a reputation for being the hardest, one of the hardest working guys around. And so he was a hard worker. Joe and I both got our hard work licks in for that period of time.

AC: They said that all these evacuees started coming in to this area, and they were coming in from Minidoka to go to work. You said problems began to appear about when these people showed up. What kinds of problems?

PS: Oh, not anything big, I guess, because it was kind of hard, I think, for a lot of these people, businesses and so forth, to see these, influx of workers come in like that, Orientals. And, of course, they'd go to the bar, the young guys would go to bars and make a lot of noise. Basically I think there really wasn't that much trouble. I can't really put my finger on anything. Of course, I'm sure there were some disturbances, but nobody made a big to-do about it, I guess. There were guys getting, drinking and getting awfully loud and that kind of thing, that was the times. Of course, for the people who owned them, allowances, why, of course, that meant there was a lot of money brought in. I think everybody just kind of put up with it in spite of everything. I really, I don't... can't remember if any real... oh, there were some incidents, but I can't remember them now, it's been too long ago.

AC: You said a lot of these city kids would come in and they'd want to work on the farm just to get out of the camps and things like that, they'd do all kinds of things. What kind of stuff did the city kids do?

PS: Well, the kids, the young guys we had on our farm, the kids that grew up in the city, like in Seattle, they had no concept of farming. So it was a new experience to 'em, and just had to lead 'em by hand through the different jobs. And this one fellow, I know he grew up on a farm around Kent, I think, and so it was, he took to it pretty well. But he was a little older, too. Some of these younger guys, it was new to 'em. But they were willing, they were willing to learn, and so it was a good experience. Since they grew up in the city and the things they didn't know, it was a little bit, things that we had to teach them were a little bit, made you kind of wonder if they haven't learned any kinds of lessons at all. [Laughs]

AC: What kinds of things did you have to teach them?

PS: Oh, like irrigating, gravity irrigation, that was a new thing for them. You got water going down a ditch, and then you have to cut a little slit in the ditch that would get the water to go down the row. And you had to show 'em how to do that kind of thing so it wouldn't all end up going down one row, the whole canal, ditch, water going down one row. You had to show 'em how to spread the water out so you can cover, utilize the water, irrigation water as efficiently as you can, and make it, once you got the water turned out of the bank, you've got to let it, put it on the [inaudible] and make it go where you want it to. And then after it gets through, you've got to know what to do with the wastewater, and those kinds of things. They did weeding onions, not to step all over the plants, and be careful about, not to cut out the plants, the onions, and pull out the weeds without pulling out the crop, crop that you want to want to, sugar beets, trying to teach them how to thin beets. That was an experience, and also harvesting sugar beets, not to throw 'em so hard, to throw 'em over the other side and hit somebody on the head, that kind of thing. That was a new experience for a lot of people. And at the same time, for sugar beets, you had a knife and you'd cut off the tops, and, of course, there was lots of cut arms, not arms, but hands and legs, little nicks that people got, people wouldn't top off very well and the knife would glance off and hit your leg or something. But that's the way it was. That was the thing that people had to learn to be careful of. And playing Annie-over with those big beets, too, that was a no-no. You had to just throw them onto the truck without getting too carried away. That was some of the things that... it was a new experience to people from out of the area. A lot of little things like that. But everybody learned pretty darn fast. It's a new experience for them and so you had to just bring 'em along and they caught on real fast. Some funny things have happened down through the, trying to teach them.

AC: Say you had these people who were forced to evacuate, and you didn't. And Roosevelt had signed this order, and how did you feel about all that?

PS: Oh, what could you do? The old expression, "shikata ga nai," that's the Japanese expression. Well, not a whole lot you could do about it. So that's... people just put up with it. It wasn't right in our way of thinking, but there was no way you could combat that kind of a government order. Of course, there were some people in the camps, some guys that wouldn't, didn't like it, and they raised some hell about it. But the people who, most everybody just kind of accepted it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, kind of thing. So that's, everybody had to get out, try to get out and make a living, and get on with life. I think most of the farmers around here were glad to have the help, and I think most of the people who came out to work were treated pretty good by the farmers. Of course, everybody depended on, depended on a lot on the workers at that time, because the workers were hard to find during wartime, and they were glad to have that kind of help. I don't... it's kind of amazing because years later, you'll meet somebody and says, "Oh, yeah, I was in your area back during wartime, and worked up in places you never even thought of." There used to be an orchard up north of here, probably forty, fifty miles north of here on Highway 95, there was an orchard up there, ranch up there, there were quite a bit of orchards, and people talked about they worked up there, and hardly knew that kind of place existed back in those days. But it's interesting, you come across people who say, "Yeah, I worked in your area, I was in your area for a couple of years." And I think in our church, so many people went through our Methodist church back in those days. I look back at some of the names, so many of the names were people from out of the area, and were evacuees, and they added a great deal, contributed a great deal to our church. By the same token, our church was, helped a lot of people.

AC: Did you ever, consider, you know, "Hey, but for the grace of God, there go I"? You could have been, easily been in their shoes?

PS: Yeah. Like my wife's oldest sister, she was recently married at the time the war broke out, and I think... well, she'll probably mention that later, but she got a child, and, of course, it was the first grandchild for the parents, and I think it was after the war broke out, but the father-in-law wanted to get her out of, get her over here in the worst way. And I think it came about that she was, and her husband were able to get over here. It was a pretty traumatic thing for the parents at that time. Well, I guess we're just lucky that we were here and didn't have to go through that experience. I have had time trying to imagine going through that scenario, but fortunately, we didn't have to.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

AC: So in 1945, was it, you were drafted into the army.

PS: Yes.

AC: And how did you feel about that?

PS: Oh, I think at that time I was probably ready to go. My oldest brother was getting near discharge, he never did go overseas, he was cadre, I think, most of the time, and in the medics, and he was ready to come home about the time I... as a matter of fact, I got together with him one time, I think it was when I was still in basic training in Camp Fanin, Texas. My brother was over in Fort Harrison, or someplace over there, and we got together at Texarkana one weekend, because he was getting ready to come home. And we were able to get together in Texarkana. I don't remember much about the weekend except that riding in the train, going from, I guess it was near Tyler, Texas, to Texarkana, the old train had a wooden stove in the end for giving, creating heat for the passengers. I thought that was so strange. But anyway, that's the way things were. So at that time I was probably eager to get in and try something different. Fortunately, I didn't have any bad experiences. I was able to get through basic and all that stuff without any particular problems.

AC: Well, in basic you were introduced to chiggers in Texas.

PS: Yes.

AC: Tell me about that.

PS: Oh, that's a... there's a little insect, biting insect that are called chiggers. And in that sandy ground where the army camps are, they're everywhere. They're nasty little things that bite, and it's just something you get used to. [Laughs] Anybody that's been trained in, basic training in that area, why, they were introduced to them, and that's part of the things you've got to get used to. I think of things that could be worse than chiggers like ants or snakes, you know. So it was a learning experience and it was all right. It got to itching so bad, you scratched a lot. [Laughs] But you made it, you lived through that kind of thing. And you think about all the other kinds of exposure you get when you get into a battle, why, it's really nothing. It was something a person learned about and got along with it.

AC: You joined the counterintelligence, you went to counterintelligence corps training. What kind of things did they teach you in that?

PS: Oh, language, surveillance, photography, lock picking, lot of different things they touched on. And the stories that they would tell about the business of intelligence. Some of the things that they talked about were off the record kinds of things that are methods they used to get confessions or find out some things that they're trying to learn, lot of things like that. I've forgotten so much about that now, except some of the basics, like surveillance, lock picking, observations, how to get along doing your work, that kind of thing.

AC: You had mentioned that you had gone on a surveillance excursion into Baltimore, you went to a place called "the blot."

PS: Uh-huh.

AC: And there were all these bars, and you said it was really fun. What happened?

PS: It was just... you're supposed to follow somebody, and I don't know, follow somebody without being observed. That's what the exercise was. And you went through the, so many of the bars, that kind of thing, and that's what it was. It was an exercise in surveillance. It was a kind of a fun thing to go through that part of Baltimore. It didn't go into anything wicked or bad, just an exercise in surveillance.

AC: You also said you learned how to drive a duck?

PS: Yeah.

AC: And you didn't know why?

PS: No.

AC: Did you ever drive a duck after the training?

PS: No, no. Well, I think in the service, sometimes you run into things that never, you never used that particular training. And there were times when you wish you'd had some specialized training. But I enjoyed that, going to Fort Mead and seeing different things. And I guess that goes back to my driving tractors as a kid on the farm, I had that kind of curiosity. And I had that, I guess I've always liked to drive, my wife teases me about that. And I think since I started driving in 1939 with the CDL, I think I probably have driven a million miles. I don't know. Anyway, I've had some experiences driving down through Arizona with a semi. But anyway, that's here nor there. [Laughs]

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

AC: After you were stationed in Japan and you were at Kurimoto...

PS: That's Kumamoto.

AC: Kumamoto, I'm sorry. And you had a reunion of all the classmates in the counterintelligence.

PS: It wasn't a reunion, just kind of, I think I got together with a couple of my friends on different weekends. I think most of the guys were stationed in and around Tokyo and Kyoto. But a few of us guys were sent out to the country, so we were able to get together. I think when I was stationed over there, my brother-in-law was probably in Japan somewhere at the same time. Doctor Gus, he was probably over there someplace, too, at the same time. I had a friend who was one of the Hashitanis, ran into him. He was a civil servant, I ran into him in Tokyo. And so after I got out of that school, we kind of went our separate ways. I wasn't able to see the guys much after that, but Isao Kameshige, he and I went through the same training there at Baltimore. I remember before we graduated there, why, we had a little, everybody contributed a little to the pot. So after graduation they had a drawing to see who won the pot. I remember Kameshige won that little pot. [Laughs] It wasn't much, but it was kind of a fun thing. I don't think he remembers it, even.

Yeah, several years ago, some of the guys that were, went through Holabird, why, we got together. Kameshige was one of 'em. Several of the other people, one came up from L.A., and then there was a couple of guys around here. There's a Mizuta, he was in, I think, Counterintelligence. Couple others that already passed away. Some of the guys that I'd like to have gotten in touch with are gone already. I've got one friend down in California, he's one of them that signed over and married a Japanese lady and has five sons, I think, has done very well down there in the strawberry country south of San Jose, can't even put a name to the area, but you probably know of it. Anyway, there's a few of the guys still left, but I haven't been able to catch up with many of 'em.

AC: Well, in your time in Japan you had mentioned a couple incidences, one which you wanted to buy dry persimmons. You didn't know what the price was, so you just gave the guy lots of money and said, "Here, thank you." The other time when you had driven a jeep, had blankets in there, and then when you came back, the jeep and blankets were gone. You just felt that the people here in Japan at the time were really, this was a really difficult time for them.

SP: Yes.

AC: And here you were, you know, you looked like them, can speak some of the language, and yet this huge disparity. How did that make you feel?

SP: Oh, I don't know. The war was over, so I guess it just didn't... felt bad for the people there, 'cause they were struggling so much. One of the first things you observed when you went there is that the little gardens they had scattered around, even along the railroad tracks had little gardens wherever they could grow some things. Of course, I went to Nagasaki as a career, business. But one of the things I observed there at Nagasaki is the destruction of some of the metal buildings that were still standing, probably ammunition manufacturing facilities, but a metal structure, and they were all leaning away from the center of the blast. They were still standing, but they were leaning away, away from the center of the blast. And then, of course, traveled through Hiroshima by train, I didn't stop. But you could observe all of the damage and the few structures that were still standing. In Kumamoto there was quite a bit of damage, I think, from fires, and Nagasaki also. There's a castle there in Kumamoto that was damaged, but then I think it's been rebuilt. It's been so long ago now, I have a time trying to remember them. But there was the... to me, the impressive parks that they had in Japan, different places. There was one there in Kumamoto, I remember that because I was in through there so much, in and around it. Such a pretty park. But that was, they had 'em all over, I think, Japan, if you wanted to find 'em.

In Sasebo I didn't get a chance to drive around much there, that was a seaport, I remember we got acquainted with some navy people, and there was a chief there that gave me what they call a navy pea jacket, and had my initial on it. I brought that back with me. Had it for a long time around the place and, heck, somebody else wanted it worse than I did. But it was, went to a place, one of the people working for our detachment, he was repatriated, and so he could speak Japanese and English, but he had a friend or family that he was acquainted with, lived out in the country. But somehow or another, got a gallon of shoyu, I was going to take it out to these folks. Had relatives from Portland, and I can't remember now. But anyway, he and I were driving out to this family out in the country there. Of course, back then, everybody was walking, and they had people alongside the road. My friend who was a repatriate was driving and going downhill there, and don't remember what happened, but anyway, he had to swerve keep from hitting somebody. Anyway, we finally got stopped all right, but the jeep was laying on its side. Here I had this gallon of shoyu between my legs, and fortunately I didn't even break it. But anyway, we got to where we wanted to go, and I think whatever little damage we had done, we got it straightened up. One of those hairy little incidences you can get into. Of course, those jeeps were so easy to turn over anyway, but fortunately, we didn't run into big problems. My friend was saying, "God, you even saved that gallon of shoyu without breaking it." Good little things happen sometimes. [Laughs]

AC: How did you feel after seeing the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What were you feeling seeing all that?

PS: Well, I guess you just, the reaction is it's a part of war. During wartime you heard about it and saw it on movie newsreels and all that kind of stuff, so you're kind of conditioned to it. You heard about the devastation of the atomic bombs, and you saw pictures of it. And so when you actually got there, why, you just kind of accepted it. There's nothing you could do about it, the firebombing that went on, there's nothing, it was part of the war, and glad it was over with and trying to help get things back to normal, whatever that is, and did what you could, did what you were ordered to do. I think that was about all we could do, just do what our job was and hopefully it contributed to some good. Yeah, 'cause we were born in this country, educated in this country, and when you go into the service, your allegiances to this country and the oath you take when you go into the military, and that's just the way things were. If you couldn't accept it, why, you didn't go into the military. That's just the way things were, shikata ga nai, you know. If you didn't like it, you had to suck it up and go on. But I think at that point in my military, I was kind of eager to get out and see the world and see the good and the bad.

AC: You had mentioned almost toward the very end of your time in Japan, that some relatives from Fukushima city heard that you were there and they made this incredible journey to come down and see you, and they missed you by a day. Did you ever go back and see them or talk to them?

PS: No, I didn't. After I got home I explained to my parents I was, my time was up and I wanted to get back. And everybody felt bad that that's the way it ended up. I had no way of knowing that they were coming down. Just one of the unfortunate things that happened. I still haven't had a chance to go back even though I've been to Japan as a member of the export committee, but I never had an opportunity to go look up any relatives.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

AC: Well, after you came back, you went back to the Oregon State agricultural college on the GI Bill, met your wife at this leap year dance, and after she finished her degree, you started several years later than she.

PS: Yes, right.

AC: So you never finished your degree. What were you studying?

PS: Ag engineering, that's what I started out in.

AC: You have any regrets about finishing your degree?

PS: Oh, yeah and no. Because I was, had a business waiting for me. After I got married, the farm was there, and my two brothers were farming, we farmed together before the war and everything like that, so it was just a matter of coming back and becoming part of the farming operation. And so, no, I didn't wish I could go and finish, get my degree, although I did sometimes, but it wasn't a major problem. I was happy that my wife was able to get her degree. Oh, there's a little story there, but I'll let her tell it. [Laughs] Anyway, it wasn't that difficult for me. I had a house to go to and things like that, we were pretty fortunate.

AC: I want to fast forward now to when all this talk began surfacing about redress and things like that, did you have any feelings about that at all?

PS: Not really. I guess I thought it was a good thing that kind of compensation, the redress, I thought it was a good thing. It came awfully late, there was people who should have received it. By the time it was passed and was ready for recipients to get it, why, a lot of them had already passed away. I thought it was a justified thing. Because you think back of all the things that the evacuees lost, they were only allowed to take two suitcases or something like that, and the people that, the farms and the homes and stuff that they left behind, and things that people never were able to get any compensation for it, they just lost it. And so they were taken advantage of. I thought it was too bad it wasn't something that happened a little bit earlier. I think, I don't remember how many years, it was after the war ended, but it was sure a loss to a lot of people.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

AC: Looking back over your entire life experience now, what have you learned? What kind of things have you concluded about living here in America?

PS: I guess living in this area has always been, I thought a good place to live. After traveling all over, we've been, my wife and I, we've been to London and Paris, and it's always so, in all my travels, Far East, it always feels so good to get back here. It's kind of stupid, but the first thing I want when I get back to the States is a hotdog. It's so silly, but that's what I enjoy when I get back. I think we're fortunate in this area that it's got its good and bad points where rural America, kind of get left out on a lot of things. And yet on the other hand, there's advantages of being rural, too. In the overall picture of things, why, I think we kind of get left out in this part of the world. I don't agree with all the politics that go on, but that's part of living in this country.

AC: Where do you feel that you've been left out?

PS: Oh, it looks to me like here in the state of Oregon, there's so much control that comes out of Portland and the Willamette Valley. Our governor a couple of years ago was so against, or he wanted control so much, the state of Oregon had a couple of airplanes that he gets to use to get around wherever he wanted to go. And so his speed limits he set for the state are, I think are still lousy. You see a speed sign on the highway, it says maybe something speed. It's not a speed limit. And so I often wonder how people from other states traveling through, how did they interpret that? And then rather than trying to make it easier for people to get around better, why, I feel that it's gone the other way. It's too many restrictions. I got stopped once here this spring, and that was after we got a new captain over here with the Oregon State Police. And he came from the Willamette Valley, and he started clamping down as soon as he got here. Of course, that's where he came from, the Willamette Valley, where they had more restrictions. But I told this officer that stopped me, I said, "Down around Jordan Valley before the war, the speed limit was 45, and now it's 55." I told him, "Now, that's progress, isn't it?" I said, being nasty, but anyway, you go over into Nevada, it's up to 65 or 70, the same two-lane highway. And you come up into Idaho, it's 65. And here we have these restrictions, it's not very fair as the way I interpret it. After having driven since 1939, not having been picked for a DUI or accident or anything else, my big violations are speeding. Anyway, that's my take on things.

AC: If your father was still alive, right here, right now, and he's listening to us talking, so you and your children and your grandchildren, what would he say?

PS: Boy, that's a good one. I guess he'd be happy with the way things are. I don't know. He'd probably be disappointed in some things. Things are, probably in his way of thinking, too easy maybe. Or maybe happy for the way things, were able to accomplish as individuals, the opportunity to go on to higher education, I don't know. I think he probably would be happy with the way his kids and grandkids are getting along in this country and the way things, the way we're accepted. I think he'd be pretty happy.

AC: You talked about all kinds of things today. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you'd like to go talk about?

PS: Oh, boy. I don't know. I've had the opportunity to participate in a lot of community things, and I think I've been pretty blessed. I've got my family, my five children, I don't know how things could be more blessed than that. My wife was able to graduate college early on. She was the first in her family to go on, get on to graduate university. My brother's still healthy. Unfortunately I've lost my middle brother, but other than that, I think I'm very fortunate. I think this country is, you can always find bad things, negative things, but on the other side, there are so many good things that I'm very thankful and privileged to be here, still be alive.

AC: Anything else that you'd like to add to anything else we've talked about?

PS: No, I think that's... you've allowed me to say a lot of things, and I'm grateful for that. I think that's, I appreciate it.

AC: Well, last question then. Looking over everything in your entire life again, what advice would you give to your grandchildren and your great grandchildren?

PS: Well, I guess I'd like to tell them that nothing is free. You have to learn to make your way through life, take advantage of the education systems, knowledge and learning is so important. And I think getting education and staying healthy is very vital. Get off the beaten path and get into drugs or whatever, it's really got its pitfalls. I don't know, I guess you got to be honest with yourself and try to learn as much as you can, and don't be afraid to work. I guess my old parents' teachings, don't steal and be honest and don't damage your name, I guess that would be the kind of thing that I keep telling my grandkids. I think that's it.

AC: Thank you so very much for taking the time to speak to us today.

PS: Well, thank you.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2004 Oregon Nikkei Endowment and Densho. All Rights Reserved.