Densho Digital Archive - Hiro Takeuchi Interview

Densho Digital Archive
Oregon Nikkei Endowment Collection
Title: Hiro Takeuchi Interview
Narrator: Hiro Takeuchi
Interviewer: Loen Dozono
Location:
Date: April 25, 2003
Densho ID: denshovh-thiro-01

[Correct spelling of certain names, words and terms used in this interview have not been verified.]

<Begin Segment 1>

LD: This is April 25, 2003, and we have the pleasure today to interview Hiro Takeuchi, who was born April 9, 1915, in Troutdale.

HT: Right, yeah.

LD: Yes. Hiro, will you tell us who your father was and where was he from?

HT: My dad was, his name was Sakajiro Takeuchi, and he's originally from Hiroshima, Japan.

LD: How did he come to the U.S.?

HT: Well, in those days I guess especially the people from Hiroshima, they were more or less probably agricultural people, and they were more or less, poor. I shouldn't say poor. So the young kids youth people, they all want to adventure to America, you know. They thought money grow on trees or something. Anyway, he left for Hawaii when he was sixteen years old. And then from, and he worked in the, for the majority of his youth he went originally to Hawaii, I think. Then he worked in the sugar cane. And then after a year, he came to Oregon. Well, he came to San Francisco, and from San Francisco, he came to Portland. And my uncle was here already at that time, so he came and joined his brother in Portland.

LD: How about your mother? How did he meet her?

HT: Well, there again, my dad, my uncle had a barber shop, so he joined in the barber shop business, and then I guess they were getting to marry. There again, in the old days, so-called "picture marriage," and my mother came over when she was sixteen years old, and they got married in, well, evidently in Portland. That's where they met, and they were in Portland at the time, yes.

LD: So was it an arranged marriage with people?

HT: I think so. Yeah. There again, so-called baishakunin in those days too. They know some people, then they get them together and everything like that. But being separate from over here she was over there, they send, communicate with the picture, you know. That's where they get the old "picture bride marriage," not anymore. [Laughs]

LD: After they were married, where did they live?

HT: Then after they got married, they had their first child, that's my older brother Masao. After there, they purchased a property out in Troutdale and went out to start farming, you see. And that was, I would guess 1913. My brother was born in 1912. And so they bought this property out there in Troutdale, 21 acres, it was just nothing but timber, and they just start clearing the land and year after year and they start farming. And here again, row crops, so-called row crops like lettuce and cabbage and carrot and so forth, yeah. So that's what they got started in their livelihood, you might say.

LD: In those years, it was difficult for Japanese to purchase property. Were they able to do it, was it in your brother's name? Do you know?

HT: No, no. That early stage, there's no so-called haiseki or anything. That all started I think in 1923, see. So prior to that, they were able to purchase the property, yeah.

<Begin Segment 2>

LD: How many children were there in your family, and where did you grow up?

HT: Well, there was five of us. We all grew up out on the farm. Yeah, there were five boys. We didn't have any sisters. And so we grew up on the farm, helped on the farm. And of course, every, well, all the time, we helped clear the land, and that's where we grew up, you might say.

LD: So which child were you in the five sons?

HT: I was the second son.

LD: And I believe after you were growing up in Troutdale for a while, you moved after that?

HT: Yes, yes. This is another story. You know, in those days, the Isseis are really, believed in education, so can you imagine my folks gave up their farm. They owned the farm, and they moved to Parkrose which is where we are now I might say, and they purchased, not purchased, they rented a place for five years just to send us to Nihongakko. There was none out there in Troutdale you see, so they moved out there. And then, so we started going to Japanese school, and I think we were down in 1921, I think. But anyway, 1923, they closed it, you know. There was haiseki. They just closed all the Japanese schools, so we had to quit going to school. But then we had already leased the property, so we stayed there for five years, and that was the year that, end of that year, folks took us all to Nihon, the five of us just to go to Japan in September. And the last day of that year, December 31st, we came back to America again, and we moved back up on the farm in Troutdale.

LD: While you were in Parkrose, what did your parents do for a living at that time?

HT: The same thing; we were farmers, just truck farming, yeah. Talk about farming, when we were up there in Troutdale way back, in those days my folks would, not my folks, my dad would take the produce to the markets, you know. At evening, get through work and then take the horse, not horse and buggy, but the horse and team to go to the market. And so he would take the team to go down the market in the morning and then whatever they could sell and then came back. And he used to tell me the story that he was so tired, he would fall asleep, but the horses will always come back, come back to bring him home, lightning, everything, yeah. It's something that I'll never forget, you know. Yeah. But then I'll get back to Parkrose. Later on, then we moved to Parkrose, you see.

LD: How else did Japanese family values affect your childhood about the amount of food you ate? I believe you were talking about rice?

HT: Yeah, I was. Like I said, there were five of us boys, you know. We were pretty healthy eaters, you see. Anyway, my dad would always purchase, in those days the rice would come in a hundred pound sack and they always say, "I bought another ten sacks, so we'll eat for another year." And that was the thing because in those days, economy was really bad. It was Depression. Right at that time when we were growing was really the bottom of the Depression, and that was so many people, the Isseis were having a hard time, the meals were coming from, really, you know. Like Dad would say, we have rice so we'll eat for another year because we ate whatever we raised, you see. We never went out and purchased anything. See, so, I remember Dad used to we were so poor that he would, during the winter months he would go out and borrow money from his friend for ten dollars. Can you imagine ten dollars to live on? And then of course in those days, we charge groceries to the grocery store and charge it. So we would say we'll pay you off when the berry season. And then we pay it up, and then now we have the written charge again. And then here at the fall harvest, the cauliflower or whatever so we're always behind time. But it was Depression. It was a typical family life in those days, yeah, very few was, made a success out of them. [Laughs]

LD: It was a difficult time. Because of the Depression and as you said, five sons in the family, you, was there a time when it was so difficult perhaps you were going to live with someone else?

HT: Yeah. Well, as I said, a friend of ours, his name was Kuwabara. He was a friend from, lived out, they lived on a farm too. But they didn't have no child, so they wanted adopt me in the worst way because I used to go there and spend some time over the weekend and things, you know. And I wanted to go too because at home, you had to share everything. We didn't have the luxuries, you know. So, but then the parents never did that, you know. And when I think about it now, I'm sure glad they didn't, yeah, so it was something. And another thing I thought of in those days the neighborhood that, was a bachelor, and you know, so you had everything you wanted. Here we're poor and had to share things. I said, "When I grow up, I want to be a bachelor, so I can have whatever I want at home." I guess that didn't work out, but I'm glad it didn't either. Nothing like having a family.

LD: Back to your visit to Japan, can you remember any experiences having grown up in America, going to Japan? Was it a strange feeling, or did it feel like you belonged there?

HT: Yeah, it was kind of a funny feeling. But to begin with, in those days, we went on a ship, took two weeks, and I can't think of the name. But in those days, we had the ship, the steep, and there was the quarters for the third party would ride on the tail end where the rudder was really shaking, and I was sick for a whole two weeks. Most of us were sick for whole two weeks, two weeks, traveling. And then like I said, when you get there with your parents, you're spoiled. They treat you good and so they want to come back. And of course, we didn't go to school, you know. We were just there two months, see. Took us two weeks to go and two weeks to come back, see, so it was two months. And we just so they just treat it that you didn't have to go to school, didn't have to study or anything, and it was lovely. [Laughs] And there again, I didn't want to come back either, you know. But then the parents brought us all back. And there again, I'm glad they did, you know. So you got some crazy ideas when you're kids, but the way it turned out, I really appreciate it.

<Begin Segment 3>

LD: After you returned from Japan, how old were you, and what happened right at that time?

HT: Well, let's see now, 1926, so that makes me eleven years old, came back. We came back as I said, in September. After we finished the harvesting, Dad says, let's go to Nihon and come back and then go back up on the farm. And we came back but the last day of the year, 31st, and then we moved back on the farm. And then no sooner we got back up there, that my mother took ill, and she had an appendix, ruptured appendix. And in those days, ruptured appendix was terminal, you know. But luckily she survived. But then someone had to take care of her home so I was elected, I guess. Anyway, I stayed home, took care of the family, did all the cooking and whatever the family need, washing and everything. And my brother was still young yet, my youngest brother, Tad was still, but anyway, I was, took care of the family and did all the washing and something. And as I look back now, I just can't see me doing it at eleven years old, but I did. And so anyway, that particular year, see we were gone three months in Nihon at September, see, and then we didn't go to school when we came back. So I didn't go to school for a whole year. For a whole year, I skipped school. And so, back then, we were on the farm. So during the fall, a lot of, so many times, we did stay out of school just to work on the farm, see. But that particular year I was still young yet, but then this what I had to do. So the following fall, we started school, you know. So they said the fifth grade, we just can't put you in the sixth grade because you didn't go to school and so I started the fifth grade. After fifth grade, after three weeks, I was promoted to sixth grade. So, yeah, I was real proud of that. So we're happy that she was able to the doctor. Things advanced. Nowadays, appendix is just a common thing, you know.

LD: Well, you must have been a good student and to be able to go from the fifth grade to the sixth grade so quickly.

HT: Yeah. I was pretty smart. [Laughs] No, but I did real well, you know.

LD: But, you were a good athlete also.

HT: Oh, all of us kids, we played, we were pretty athletic. So in grade school, we didn't. But as we got in high school going back, see we went to, all of us went to Corbett Grade School and high school, you know. There was a period, the period of twenty years that there was a Takeuchi in the school. And in high school, there was always one of us on the basketball team, yeah. In those days, we had basketball team and baseball team, but they never had football. The school board says it's too dangerous, so we didn't have it. But then, so we all participated in basketball, and we all lettered in basketball. And they didn't give letters, they lettered in basketball. They gave us a sweater too. That was a little something, yeah. But we didn't have no stripe. I don't think you have nowadays, but that's what they had in those days, you know.

LD: So you started with basketball, and then did you play baseball?

HT: We played, yes. We played baseball in high school. We played, and then of course as a Japanese community they had baseball teams too so we were pretty active in that. Well, there's five in the family, so we're all pretty active, yeah.

<Begin Segment 4>

LD: Who was influential in your baseball years?

HT: Baseball group?

LD: On your team, in the Japanese team, was there someone, was the coach particularly helpful to you?

HT: Yes. He was real nice, good coach too, name of Frank Fukuda, Fukuda-sensei. He was a school, Japanese school teacher also, and he was really into baseball, and he loved to teach golfing, not golfing, baseball and odori. You know, when he was hired, he was hired to teach Japanese, you know. Some of the parents were complaining that that's all, his priority is the baseball and odori, you know. When are my kids going to learn how to speak Japanese? But evidently, he was not ousted, but then he went from Montavilla, came to our, stayed there for a while, and later on, he went to Wapato, yeah. But he was really a good coach. In fact, we had one good period they even took to Nihon. We figured he was good enough to be a pro. It was Joe Okuda, yeah. So we had a good pitcher when he was playing with us, you know. Yeah, so he went to Nihon, and he played there for a couple years, and then he came back to go to California. Of course, we all played. And then like I said, five boys so we played... in fact, Dad was the best supporter in those days, you know. We used to farm, but so in the farm, when we start the games they'd all come, the community come and watch us play every Sunday. And as the season progressed, as you got busy on the farm, one by one, they drop back. But then Dad wasn't until the last one. Dad and the Kato family, they had five boys also, yeah. So we kept playing, so I'll never forget, as I think about that now, I'll never forget Dad because we get up in the berry season, baseball's a priority, yeah. We went to get up, come on, let's get up early and do some work and then go play baseball and come back. So I think we did lose some crops on that. [Laughs] But baseball, it was really nice, yeah.

LD: Did a baseball team ever come from Japan, and what was your memory of that?

HT: Yeah, that's one of my memories that I had that there was a team from, called Hirosho that came from Hiroshima, and I think they were the first team I know that came from Nihon. I think probably the, one of the two that ever came to Portland. After that, they didn't come, but we were fortunate enough to play against them, you see, a Portland team, you know. I was pretty active in those days, and I was on that particular team that we had. They were all graduated from high school already. But then I was still in high school, but then I always played, and I was the youngest one in the team, you know. We played this Hirosho team, and I know that we lost. I don't know if it was two to one or two to something. We lost and I'll never forget the incident that I was playing first base and then I don't know if I should tell you all these baseball stories. But this particular play, there was a man on first, and then they hit a grounder to me, so it was an automatic double play. So you know, I field the ball, and then I threw to second. Well, there was nobody there, and I couldn't stop it so that meant that they both were safe, you see. So then that eventually led to their scoring, and that was the difference in the game. And of course, after the game was all over they had a party for them, treated them to a Chinese dinner. And then, of course, there again, I was young, so my dad, we just went home, you know. We didn't get to go, but I heard later on that that was the turning point of that game that I was responsible, you know. And I says, hey, you're supposed to have a man cover second, not me, you know. So, but in that particular game too, our team, we got four hits, and I got two of them, so I feel real proud about that. So whether we lose or not, it's important to win. But then if you can't win, so I have some good experience with that team, you know. To play at Vaughn Street, it's a professional field. That was something else too. We used to play out in open field, you know. That was a nice memory that, in fact, I have a nice picture of that team, you know.

LD: Why was it so special to play at Vaughn Street? I would like you to just tell us a little more about that.

HT: Well, that Vaughn Street was a, that's where the professionals played, see. Of course, no one ever got to play there let alone, even go see there. In those days, we weren't affluent to go to see those games. But just to be there and to think about playing there it was something, you see. Yeah, I'll never forget that. But baseball like I said was our life you might say like the whole family, the priority over the whole house.

LD: Before we leave the subject, are there any other stories about your high school team or your Japanese team that you want to share that you remember about teammates or games?

HT: Well, like high school I played on the team, too. There again, I'm left handed, so naturally, I played first base in high school. High school, I'm not that tall. Hakujins are taller, but then I still played first. We did okay, but we'd always look forward during the summers, we used to have Fourth of July tournament in Seattle that we'd go to. It's just an annual thing, and that was something we always look forward to, but we weren't that successful at it. Anyway, we always had a good time up there, yeah. And in Portland we used to, when our team used to play in the different hakujin teams, the American team, and then we'd always, we didn't hardly ever win. But the coach said you got to play against better teams to improve, so that was an excuse. We enjoyed playing baseball. And like I said, like you mentioned about playing on the Vaughn Street, it was something special.

<Begin Segment 5>

LD: After high school, when you became eighteen which was considered an adult in those days, what did you do?

HT: What did I do? You know, as we were growing up, the Issei custom was the chonan or the elder son would take over the family, take their assets or the debts, either way, but they would look after the parents, you see. This is where, in the environment that we're raised, you know. Then we have five boys, but then the eldest one would look after the parents. And of course, we were really poor, so, and then everybody used to tell us, the rest of us, go day to day, you go out on your own, and we were all reared on that, you know. So when I got, we graduated high school, the first summer, I left home and went to work for my cousin in South Tacoma. He had a fruit stand, see. So it's not a total stranger for parents to let me go either, and I looked forward going there. That's when I left, you know. And there again like the society of the [inaudible], rumors had it that Hiro, he couldn't get along with his folks. So when he graduated high school, he took off, but that wasn't the case, you know. So I didn't feel whatever they say, you don't feel bad. But in my own heart, I know what I'm doing. I know what the parents are doing, see. So then I worked there for a whole year and then that's when they sold the fruit stand. So I came back, and I stayed on the farm for another year, and then my same cousin Tom and Fred, the two brothers came back... no, Tom is the one that came back, and he started a store, grocery store, so I went to work for him again. So I went to work for him for three years. And then I said, "Well, Tom, I want to go on my own, so I'm going to quit," you know. He says, "Well, you got a store located?" I said, "No, not really." But I didn't want to be working and looking for stores. I'll let you know that I was going to retire from your store. He says, "Oh, why don't you just keep working for me, then I'll help you locate, look for a store?" So I says, "Well, that's okay. That's fair enough." So I stayed there, and we talked to different salesmen and different people, and it was a whole year before I found a place and decided to go, and this was 32nd and Southeast Hawthorne. And so I went there and then opened up that store. It was about a year and a half when the war broke out. That's when the war broke out again. So again, everybody know the history of the war.

LD: Well, I'd like you to mention the name of the store that you leased. But then, yes, the war broke out, and how did you deal with that? Because you were now leasing a store, what did you, how did you handle the situation?

HT: Well, like I said, the war broke out. So we're there and right away, the evacuation came so I think we had to, well, we all had to, we were all forced to leave. And at that time, Portland and then I think Gresham was two different areas, you know. So I lived in Portland, so we had to get rid of our store because you just had to leave, you know. And at that time, there was about forty of our Japanese grocery store. It was quite a bit in those days, forty. In those days, we had a store, and then we had delivery service, free delivery service. The people would call and deliver, so we all had a van, you know. But then finally, we had to give it up, you know. So one by one, these people would come around and offer to buy your place, and just not even buy, they just want to steal it from you, you know. And so but then what are you going to do? You got to leave within a week or two weeks. So most of them, in fact, they all gave up sold it, whatever the best they could do. And then like I said they had the van, they just threw the van in and it was a sad situation. I was stubborn. It just made me so mad that I didn't even want to sell the place, you know. I'll never forget, Shiz Onishi was working for me at the time and she said, "You darn people come in here and try to, get out of here." She was just in tears, you know. I never gave up. So I finally, I had to close the store, and then I asked the owner if I could lease the place for the duration and he agreed to lease it for me. And then at that time, I was paying fifty dollars a month rent, and he agreed to give it to me for twenty-five dollars, so I said fine. Of course, we didn't know how long it was going to last, but we just took our chances, you know. So I agreed to that, and then I sold whatever thing I could sell. And then the case that wasn't open, I returned it to the wholesalers and got credit there, you see. And this is, so I was, I think I was the only one that never did give up or give it away you might say, you know. So then I moved to my home place out of Troutdale. That was, I think it was probably a week or two later they had to come into assembly center. So I went out there first, and then we were the last ones into the assembly center.

<Begin Segment 6>

LD: After the assembly center, during those war years, where did you go?

HT: Well, from the assembly center, there again, they needed, or volunteered to go to Tule Lake, open up Tule Lake with the canteens, I guess they call it canteens. It's kind of a grocery store just like 7-Eleven is. It is a small thing, pick-up place, and they want to open that up, and they needed volunteers. So John Ito, he was a grocery man too, he and I, we volunteered to go down there. So we were the last one in assembly center and the first one to leave assembly center and went to Tule Lake. We opened those canteens down there. Of course as you said, the war, they paid you, treat everything, but then they still had a place that you can pick up those things. And how much can you buy when you get paid sixteen dollars a month, nineteen dollars for professional? So I was there for that that, I think we went in there. And that fall, the labor shortage, so people from Eastern Oregon came out to recruit labor on their farm. So there again, I volunteered for that because I couldn't stand being in the camp. But that fall, I volunteered to go and then, but then Mother wasn't that well. But still I volunteered to go out and work in the grocery, I mean canteen, so they gave me a go-away party and everything. But then people start saying, "How can you leave your mom when she's not feeling well?" Well, she wasn't feeling good, but nothing that, you know. But when they told me that, well, I had no choice which I did not want to go out, so I didn't go out until next spring. That's when I went out with my brother to a labor shortage, see, and went out to the Shishido family and went to work for them and the harvesting of sugar beets and things.

LD: Where did you do the farming in that area?

HT: Well, like I said, we went to work for the Shishidos. And the following year now, my brother and I, we farmed on our own in Weiser, Weiser, Idaho. That's just across the river from, Snake River on the Idaho side. So we farmed there, brother and I farmed, but we farmed together, I think, two years. And then, let's see, two years, and then during that working time, that's where I met my wife, Mary, and we met her on the same farm that, the farm that originally went out to. So she keeps telling all her friends, she met me on the onion farm, "Sour man you got." [Laughs] That's where we met on that farm, originally. And then so I think it was a couple years later in 1946, we got married. So we went on our own to farm, and we farmed for three years, '46 and as you farm for three years until 1949. And there was kind of a twist there too, you know. At the end of that lease we didn't know what to do because we were doing fairly well on the farm, and then, but I always wanted to be in the grocery business. See, that was my first love so I was thinking about it. But then nothing in Portland that I knew of, you know. But so we just, during that winter we just debated what to do. And then finally, we decided well, since we did fairly well, why don't we just farm another five years. So we told the, the landlord lived in Vancouver, but his brother lived next door, see. So we told his brother, you just tell him that we'll take another five year lease, and he said okay. So that's when we told him we will go lease for another five years. And then we came into Portland for the holidays to see parents. They were here already, see. So we came there for the winter, for a month or so, and then we went back. And when I went back, they told us, "You don't have the farm. It's already been leased out." I said, "What do you mean, it's been leased out?" "Well, like I told you I was going to take it and you were supposed to get in touch with your brother, you know. But they never, the rumor had it that you went to Portland to get a grocery store, so they leased it out, you know." It was disgusting, so I told Mary let's pick up and leave. So that's when I came back to Portland, you see. That was that winter of 1949, not winter, the year of '49, 1949. That's how I came back into Portland.

<Begin Segment 7>

LD: When did you open your store, and did you own it from the beginning?

HT: Yes, uh-huh. Let's see, I came back, like I said, that winter and then I went back, and I loaded up the truck and everything, came back. And then I came back to the home place, the homestead, and they had a little shack that locals called dry barn, so we moved in there. And then I went and looked for a store, you know. So my cousin had already had a store then. So he says, "Well, if you're going to look for a store, why don't you and your wife, Mary, come and help me, and then I'll help you locate a store." Well, that sounds reasonable, so I went to help him and then look at the store. Of course, I was more or less looking for stores. Of course Mary was we're getting into the grocery business because she's never done that you see, so she went to work and help, you know. And that's, Tom says, "Your wife will never make a grocery man." That really upset her, you know. So she was determined to prove that she would help me and do well, you know. So we finally found a place where I was at the time. It was called Halsey Foods Center. I said, well, it was a different name, but it was 102nd and Halsey. So after all these, in fact, I think about five weeks, five months, I think I opened up in May. We started the store in May there and then went to work. So then, so we didn't have any place to stay, so you know, we moved from there, moved back of the store, back of the store and just set up hot plate, kitchen and then a bed there, and we lived there for some time. That's how we got started on the grocery, you see. And I think it was not long after that, must have been a year or so that there was a lot on this corner there, you see. It had a house and a parking, had a house on it, so we were able to purchase that house. And so I purchased that house, and we lived there for a short time. And then, probably a year or so, and then we moved that house to make a parking lot, so we moved that house.

LD: To clarify, back where you were talking about when you were first came to Portland, I don't know if I misunderstood, did you say you moved into the dry barn?

HT: Well, we used to call it dry barn, but it's a little building on my, on the homestead place. We used to have a house and then a barn and then another, we used to call it dry barn. It's just a little cabin you might say, that's where we moved in.

LD: When did you start raising a family?

HT: Jerry was born in Weiser. He was born in Weiser, and that winter we came in. He was only about six months so we asked the doc, "Can we go?" "Yeah, it's okay, you can go to Portland." So he was born there. That was 1948, see, that he was born, and then I came back here in '49. And then my second son was born 1950, yeah, while at the store, so I have the two boys.

LD: Did they help at the store?

HT: Well, as they got older, as they got older, but yeah, they were a lot of help. They say they'll never be a grocery man. It's too demanding and too tiring and long hours, so neither one was a grocery man.

LD: Building your own grocery business after the war, were there any particular difficulties or people that you were, were helpful or a problem?

HT: No. It was, no. They didn't, I mean I didn't have any this so-called discrimination. They were really nice. In fact, my business I would say, ninety to ninety-five percent of Caucasians, not the Japanese people because they were, but then after all, there is not enough of those people. So it was, and they were all good. There's no, I can't think of any experience that I had that in relation to discrimination or anything. They were all real good.

<Begin Segment 8>

LD: Let's go back to Mary a little bit. Can you tell what was her full name, where was her family from, what was she like?

HT: Well, she was a, her family was in Kirkland, Washington. And then she comes from a greenhouse people, that greenhouse, and they moved into Tule Lake also. I think they came by the way of some camp, assembly center down in California, then they came to Tule Lake. And her dad was one of the people, too, that believed in not being camp. They want to go out and get going, and then he believed in education. He sent two of his daughters to Nihon before that for a year. But they lived in this greenhouse. And they were evacuated, and they moved out to eastern, to work out there. And I think her dad and herself and her brother moved out to Weiser. And so instead of going back into camp, she worked at the laundry there during the winter, and then she worked on the farm, you know. But then after the war was completed, so they all moved out there and lived in Weiser and working farm labor. When I moved back to Portland, they took over the farm, whatever equipment they had and so forth. It was for them, you see. But Mary was, like I said, she worked at this laundry, and then that's where we met on the farm, and that's where we got married. She's been a great help, and, yeah, she's a nice mother.

LD: What was her maiden name?

HT: Her maiden name was Mary Natsuko Yabuki. Yabuki was her maiden name, yeah.

LD: You and Mary worked hard to build the business at the store. I think there was a big tragedy that happened in 1968. Can you tell us what happened?

HT: The store burned down. The way it started, the way it burned down was I had the, I had a meat section, and I'm no butcher, so I leased out the meat section and they were in charge of it. So anyway, he was in charge. After dinner, he went home for dinner and came back, and there was people lined up in the meat market, you know. So he, we had a makeshift, so-called office where we kept a little table and invoices, had it on the wall there. Anyway, he just came in, and he saw the people lined up at his counter there, so he just laid the cigarette down and then went out to wait on the customers, see. Well, the cigarette got caught on the invoices and fire and started burning. It burned so fast, you know. The first thing, like I said, I lived in the apartment above the store. As you come in the back door is the way they lined up, you see. So first thing Mary says, "Oh, there's fire coming out of the back." I looked out and then first thing was the carpet is start lifting on the floor, you see, so I ran down to call the fire department. Then when I was on the phone, there was a fire coming in the place, so I had to drop the phone and go to the front of the store, made the call. And they were there in five minutes, but it was such a huge fire that they just couldn't put it out.

LD: Can you tell us more about the store? What was its name? How big was it? What did you sell there?

HT: Okay. It was a grocery store, just a general food, groceries, vegetables, food. And the side store was fifty by a hundred, so it wasn't that large, and we were doing okay. Like I said, after what was it, probably couple three years that I made addition to the back of the store, fifteen feet deep, another fifty across the back, you see, and that is fifteen depth, and the width would be another fifty feet. So I built the basement to storage and then the level where you had your back room, and then I built the apartment on top, you see. So we had a little three bedroom apartment on top. That's where I lived until... what did I do after that? Yeah, that's where we lived until we lost the... no. We lived there until, I built a house where I am now in 1964, here, yeah, 1964, but then the fire was on 1968. So we were, we had a good business going, comfortable living, and that's all I cared for. Well, my goal was to have a comfortable living and be in the position to send my kids to school, college, and then that was one of my goal was. I didn't have to have the whole world, you know. But then like I said, I lost the store so we had to decide what to do, you know. We lost so much in the store that we weren't able to rebuild it because I did check right away what it would cost to rebuild it. It costs about one hundred thousand dollars to rebuild it. After nineteen -- we were there nineteen years, so I didn't want to go into debt again after nineteen years. You're free and clear of all your obligations. So we were, just didn't know what to do. And finally, we decided against going back into stores. So we thought we'd lease the place to have some kind of income, you know. So we contacted many different kind of business and a lot of business, you know. But the building was just four walls as it burned down, see, so we have to remodel it, you see. So all the different business come to me, so I go to the bank and ask them can I get forty, fifty thousand dollar loan to remodel this. This company is coming in, and they always turned me down, they always turned me down. But then the second branch, they said, "Well, here, I'll loan you money," he says. I said to myself, I'm not going to gamble on what they're saying. It's not worth it. Why should I personally gamble on it? So it lasted for a couple, not a couple, lasted about a year because I couldn't find anything, you know. One of them was a Mobile Station, Mobile Gas Station, and they came and looked at it, and they loved the place, but it wasn't quite big enough. It wasn't quite big enough, and they talked to us, all Shell Oil, Standard, any business you think of, they came. But then I could never get a loan, so, I could have probably gotten it on my own, but the professional guys are telling me, "You're taking a risk," so I'm not about to do that.

So finally after about six months, I went back to Mobile again, and then it just so happened when I went to them, they had a new manager that came in on the West Coast, a new manager to, he was looking for new locations, and he liked the area. He like the location, so he says, "Well, I'll apply for you again," Mobile headquarters is in New York. So he says, "I'm going to send this in, see if I can get this location." And then luckily enough he came back and says he will take it. So there again now, so I did lease it them on a five-year lease, and they were, that's the land lease. So here I have this building yet, and that building is all burned out, but then it's still worth sixty thousand dollars because they were assessing me taxes on that. Can you imagine? The four walls, it says it's worth sixty thousand dollars, so you know, what can I do? I got to pay tax on that. So what happened, I leased the property to Mobile. In other words, they took down sixty thousand dollar, tore it down, and it's a loss, but I leased it to Mobile. And the way it worked out, they put up the building and everything. So it worked out... the way it worked out was okay because they were to pay the taxes and insurance on the building, tax and insurance. Then that was a five-year lease with an option of five years after that so I was lucky to get that, you see. And then at four five-year terms, I was able to do whatever, twenty years I had Mobile there. And the next one fifth year, they just decided against it because, as you know, they'd gone into this big huge service station, as you know. It's all company owned now. And the time that I leased it, there was a service station on every corner, you might say. And after twenty years I had my own again. It's been quite an experience. In the meantime, I've been unemployed.

<Begin Segment 9>

LD: Well, it's interesting that unemployed, but you've been very busy. During the years also in the store, were you participating in helping found and establish the Nisei bowling and the golf leagues during that time?

HT: Yeah. I guess, I know I helped the organize the Gresham bowling league. We originally started right there in my backyard, in the Gateway Bowling Alley, see, so I've enjoyed that, and then, I've enjoyed golfing with the Niseis too. But there again, now, see, I live right there right here, of course, alongside the Glendoveer Golf Course when they had the Northwest, I didn't even know about it. I didn't even know about it because I was too busy working, I guess. But later on I was able to join them. And then as we got older, they just said like Jimmy Kita said, "Why don't you organize a senior club? Why don't you organize a senior club?" So I says, "Oh, I'll help," you know. Jimmy says, "Come on Hiro." And Jimmy says we'll get another one. He said come on, organize it. So at that time I think Nisei club was about 150 members, so the Nisei club. So as they were getting older, so they wanted to form a senior club, so I says, I did. So finally I called, "Why don't you come over to my place, and we'll see if we can organize it." You know how many people came over? Just eight. Can you imagine just eight people. But still, we were I organized the thing. We drew up bylaws, and then we started I remember like George Toya and Tex and a few others came by and then we organized it, Terry Tambara. So anyway, that's how it got started and that's where we are in the Nisei senior club, you know.

LD: The senior club is now. Let's go back to the original clubs, the bowling and the golf leagues because that was starting something new after the war to start a league for sports just for Nisei. Who helped get that going? How often did you meet?

HT: Well, the original golfing, I wasn't involved because as I said, I wasn't even golfing. In fact, I didn't golf until way late anyway. In the grocery store, you probably don't realize, but your dad knows, seven day a week, fourteen hours a day, so we never got a chance to do anything. But I did help them as they went along and I helped them donated trophies and things like that, you know. But I didn't join the Nisei club until later on until I think after probably after I lost the store, then I got active and helped them in, working on the Northwest and things like that, you know. But the Gresham Nisei, I helped organize that one, you see.

And then get back to the senior, now just recently why you might say, eight or nine years ago, that we organized the seniors, it's a mixed club, men and women, because we had the senior club and then our spouses are home doing, they're golf widows, I guess. So we says, "Why don't we organize a club so they can join us?" you know. So we with our spouses and I'm not sure it had to be man and wife, but it's the mixed, you know. We tried to keep it, it's just a social deal, so we even line up a course out of town just for a day trip, go out, and have a game and have lunch or something, dinner and come back, you know. And so in fact, when we first organized, it was strictly a limited club, thirty-two members because we didn't want any hotshot golfers. We just wanted our own group. [Laughs] But the one is doing real well, and so I think it's been quite a few years now. It's been about six or seven years, so they're enjoying it.

LD: Does that group have a name?

HT: Yeah. We call it the Swingers. We call it the Nisei Swingers. That wasn't my choice. You know, when I say Swingers, the first thing you know, guys go to the bar and try to pick up babes or something, but that didn't work. They want to be a Swinger, so I say, okay. [Laughs]

LD: It's a good thing now you can participate and have the time to do it. But were you also a sponsor for many years for teams?

HT: Yeah. In fact, when I had the store, like I sponsored, this is just local community store. There's little kids that come around, the parents come around and says, "Will you sponsor my boy's bowling league?" They're customers, right, so I can't very well say no, you know. If I say no to one, they said the next one will come along. And I ended up, anyway, overall, at one time I had thirteen teams, of course, just little bowling leagues for kids, well, grade school kids and stuff. Of course, in the Nisei league, I did sponsor them too, you know. I did sponsor I think, A and B league. In those days, they used to have A and B league, so we sponsored quite a bit. But another thing, this is something that, my kid was in grade school. They needed a, they had this little league baseball, and I guess they wanted to get a baseball suit, you know. Of course, in those days, they don't have suits, you know. But then they were talking about getting baseball suits and, so what happens, my kid volunteers, "Oh, my dad will get your suits," so it cost me fifteen suits. [Laughs] But one consolation, I'm an honorary member, permanent honorary member of that, the Russellville Grade School Hustlers, but I enjoyed it. That's going back, but I'll never forget that.

<Begin Segment 10>

LD: Well, you've had such a long and successful history with sports on your own and sponsoring and different things. With your grandchildren, how have they been able to fulfill your legacy with sports?

HT: That's going to be a long story. It's going to be a long story. My grandson... because I had two boys. The oldest one has a son, and then the second one has a daughter. And my oldest boy, his name is Jerry, they had a boy, and he's quite an athlete, more than anybody ever thought he would be, you know. And the parents separated in the early years, so we did not look, take care of them, but we just kind of, they had the grandparents help the kids anyway, you know. So we were able to, he loves sports, and he started out with the, in those days a soccer team, you know. He was like five, six, seven years old, and so he started playing soccer. Of course, I didn't know soccer and neither did Mary didn't know soccer at all, but we picked up as he started playing. And of course, my son helped to coach, and they were real successful. My son told me one time, the one season, they went through the whole entire season with winning every game and the opposer never scored against them. The whole season, no team scored against them. So like, like he used to say, "Dad," he says, "I don't care what level it is, I don't think you'll ever find a team that went through a complete season winning, and then the opposer never scored against you, you know." So it's, somebody's out there. That was soccer. Then he kind of gradually... of course my son, by that time I was into golf too, you see, so he liked, he started playing golf. So I remember Grandma used to take him out to Glendoveer, and he would go out there and practice putting and chipping, and she'd say, "Let's go home." "No, I want to play a little more Grandma, little more Grandma," and he would just chip and putt. He turned out to be a good golfer when it ended up. So we did, he was, got good, well enough, so we started taking him to different courses, different, you know. And there again, we were unemployed, so we could take him, so we did take him to different courses, you know. And of course, his dad couldn't take him, he's working, but we were able to do it. So we used to take him, and he did so well, he kept on playing, and he won everything there was in the junior. I got a basement full of trophies, but he did well on that.

LD: What is his name?

HT: Jared, Jared. My grandson's name is Jared.

LD: And your granddaughter, what is her name?

HT: Erica, Erica. Anyway, she's a young girl, five years, something like that, maybe. But anyway, she's a little tiny girl, but she picked up tennis, and here's a gal that's really good in tennis, you know. It's just surprising. She's just like Jared was. She just started out tennis, and she kept improving, improving, so she won a lot tournaments too. I think she wanted to keep up with Jared and get enough trophies. I remember she went to ask Grandma, "I want one of Jared's trophies." Grandma says, "No. It don't mean anything if you get it from there. You go earn, get one yourself." And then she went into tennis, and boy did she ever excel in tennis. She became the state champion in Washington. That's where she was, you know. And then again, when she graduated high school she had quite a few scholarship offers. But then again, here's the outlet, she says, "No, I don't want to accept those because I'll be obligated to practice, practice, practice, and I won't be able to study." So she didn't accept those, and she finally enrolled at Cornell. That's where she is now. So what happened, she goes back there, and they have a little team. So they picked her up, and so she's playing tennis. [Laughs] So I got a couple of grandkids that's into sports.

LD: Well, looking back, I'm sure your grandchildren have learned so many things by watching you and their parents, and just as you look back on your parents at this point and thinking about all we've talked about or the things during your life, is there anything else that you recall special or that you would like to say about growing up?

HT: Like I said, as I reflect back now I can't think what our parents did to sacrifice for us. But then like Dad especially, well, he didn't encourage us to play, but he just enjoyed it himself, so we grew up together, you know. Like I said in the busiest of harvest we just, baseball was priority and he just loved it. And he, himself, I don't think played anything. And then in high school days he would come and watch our baseball games and stay the night. It never fails, he's always there. Like in baseball, with the Japanese league, he's always -- like I keep repeating myself -- but he was there supporting us. I'll never forget that.

LD: How about a thought about Mary? How long, how many years were you married?

HT: 1946, and she passed away last, two years, 2001, so I know we had our fiftieth together. It was fifty-five years, something like that.

LD: How did you celebrate your fiftieth?

HT: I can answer the one... okay. We didn't want to have a big celebrate, but then our kids sent us to Hawaii for the, sent us to Hawaii on the senior skins game, so we spent a whole week over there watching. Yeah, that was our fiftieth anniversary. That was something. Since then, they've sent us, the kids would send us to Pebble Beach. That's a dream come true to play there once in our lifetime, Pebble Beach. Yeah, so they've been good to us, but that's what it was.

<Begin Segment 11>

LD: Is there anything else you'd like to say about Mary about what she did with you in the store, with the kids?

HT: She was a backbone. She was there all the time by my side, yeah, all the time, you know. She was a great help, and she was a good mother, good mother to the kids. But as I say, we sure miss her. But you know, she passed away doing what she loved best, playing golf. Yeah, it's another thing that morning it was the Swingers, it was our mixed club league. Usually, well, another thing is on that club they always wanted me to go out first, so I have to come in and help, do the recording and things. That's fine, I said, you know. But then so Mary and I, we would go together. So I'm always the first one up. I never know when she's going to be, what course she's going to be on. We usually ride, so usually, so I go and get a cart for myself, and then she'd have to wait knowing whether she'd golf with you to wait to see if to get the cart. But that particular morning, we went early and, so I told... I don't know what made me say this, I said, "Well, Mary why don't you get a cart too, and I'll get a cart. And then when you get a cart, you can practice, you know. And then whoever is going to be your partner, they can pay you," you know. Well, that's a good idea, so we both got a cart. So we went out to, not driving range but chip and putt. So like I said, we're early so she'd chip and putt. And then of course, I'm on the first tee. On that particular day, she was on the second foursome so I teed up. "Good luck," she said and then I took off and she followed me on the foursome, you know. And that's where she felt bad on the first, second hole, first, second, second hole. And of course, there were men and women, so she was riding with, I think was Amy and Yosh and Dan was on this side, two foursome. And on her I think it was the second or the third shot Yosh says, "Watch it Mary," you know, and she kind of whiffed a couple, three times. So Yosh told Dan, "I don't think Mary, that's not Mary. She never quits like that. I'm going to see what happened." So Yosh drove over there and asked Mary, "Don't you feel good?" "Yeah, I don't feel good," she says, "so I think I'm going to pick up," you know. So, "Okay, then I'll take you in." She said, "No, that's okay, but I'll ride with you," because she was there with the cart. So she went and rode with her and then went down that second hole and kept conversing, you know. And then on the third hole, it's par 3, they're going to try to draw my attention, but then I'd already teed up, you see. She finished the third hole, coming up the fourth hole, up the fourth hole. You're about halfway up, she won't respond. Yosh kept on, she won't respond anymore, so he said, "Oh, she's probably feel being bad." So he drove up there to the green which I was just getting ready to putt, so I told them I'm going to finish up putting first and then I'm going to take Mary in. So, okay. So I finished putting, and then I went to the cart. "Well, how do you feel?" you know. Well, before she answered she said, "Well, she's not feeling, so you better get a doctor, you better call 911, you better do this." In the meantime, I put my bag on the cart, and then so I drove to the parking lot and get her in the car. So I said, "Come on Mary, let's go." I talked to her to go in, and she just didn't respond. Oh, this gal is sick, so I just carried her, put her on the seat and then I just drove her emergency to the hospital. Our doctor lived in between the golf course. I don't know what made me take her directly to the... so I just drove fast as I could to the emergency, and then it was only three or four minutes, it was close. And I went there and here comes a couple doctors and nurses or whatever. Then they asked me what's her name. I said her name is Mary. "So how do you feel, Mary?" and no response, so they took her in. And I go in the waiting room, wait and wait and nobody comes back. The nurse go back and forth. I said, "Well, how she's doing?" The nurse finally says -- this is about half an hour later -- she says, "Well, you better check with the doctor." And the doctor came out about an hour later and says, "Well, she's not doing too well." They had to do something, but some kind of treatment to check her but they didn't have that, so they had to take her to Providence, you know. Providence didn't have it either. They said, "We don't have room or the doctors." What do you mean? We got a lady that's really sick, you know. So they finally they took her down there. But she never recovered, she never recovered. But I kept thinking, as I think back now, at least she passed on doing what she loved best, you know. But it's been what, almost two years now, two months next month. But we had a good life and good kids, you know.

LD: You have a wonderful family, and I think it's with your grandchildren --

HT: Yeah, yeah.

LD: Very special.

HT: Keep me going. [Laughs]

LD: Well, thank you for your time today.

HT: Oh, I enjoyed visiting with you. It's nice.

LD: Any last things you want to say?

HT: Oh, I think number one, take care of your person, your health is most important. Number two, education, and know something that Issei really instilled on us that I'll never forget. You look back, all the Isseis, that was their number one priority. Well, thank you very much.

LD: Thank you. I think you're right. We, your grandchildren have heard these stories from you and have been able to be successful because of what your parents did and you did and you and Mary and their parents. It's what makes this kind of a thing very special to be able to tell your story for them.

<Begin Segment 12>

LD: Did other people work on the farm when you were growing up other than your family?

HT: No. It was mostly family. It was just a small farm, so we didn't hire anybody, you know.

LD: What specific crops did you raise?

HT: I guess it was strawberries to begin early, well, in the spring would be lettuce, lettuce and then strawberries. And then Dad always want to have something coming out during the whole year, so he used to have cucumbers in August. That's one month that's not too many other varieties. And then during the fall, we'll be into, started the cabbage and cauliflower, and we didn't raise too many brussels sprouts and then carrots and parsnip in the fall. That area was, as people know, is really known for the east winds, so we never did raise raspberries. During the harvest, it would always just shake those berries off, you see, so I'll never forget after, I guess, people had probably a lot of money to invest came into Troutdale and purchased the land and raised a lot of raspberries and lost the majority. That east wind is famous for that. You try talk about, oh, that east wind, but you know, the more I think of it, I wouldn't mind living there now because in those days, you hate because you had to make a living off of it. But now people live there, if you have the east wind, you can have a nice home. All the more, you appreciate the living there. But in those days, a little different story. [Laughs]

LD: Well, in those days, how did you get groceries?

HT: Oh, we, there was, in our area, there was, Springdale was our closest place. They used to have two grocery stores. One grocery store would go around once a week and take your order, but then we didn't order very much. But there again, we were so poor, the majority of them was they were making a living, but... so we usually, during the winter and spring, we would charge our groceries and then say we'll pay you when the strawberry season come along, see, so that's what we did, you know. We just charge it for a couple, three months. And then when the berries came, we paid them off, so we still don't have any money. So, and we start charging again. And then we say, we'll pay you in the fall with the fall crops, the cabbage and cauliflower, so it's a complete cycle. And then, so but then it still wasn't enough, so I still remember they formed an organization down there. There was about seven farmers down there. They used to have a meeting in our place. We had the place to have it, you know. And then they'd go and then they'd get loans like for the winter, for the whole winter thing like two hundred dollars, maybe a hundred dollars just to live on, the whole family mind you. So we're living, we're always catching up you might say, and this is how it was. And so, but no, we were always behind and not, one crop behind time, but we made it, you see.

LD: Did you have a refrigerator?

HT: What?

LD: A refrigerator.

HT: I thought that's what you said. I thought that's what you said. What is that they were saying? No, they never had one, never had one until way later and way later, I don't know, what I mean later was just probably before the war. They first came out with this refrigerator. They didn't come out with the refrigerator. General Electric came out, so the people would go, they start buying those. That was the biggest investment. That's when they started buying the refrigerators. General Electric, I don't know how big it was, but it's all small. Up until then, we never had any. I don't think most of, we didn't, but I don't know if they had any ice boxes and such. So we just --

LD: You didn't have an ice box?

HT: No, no. We didn't, but I don't think most of them did either, I don't think in those days. The refrigerator was the big thing that came out at that time, and everybody invested in that, you see.

LD: What about meat and milk?

HT: Well, we didn't have... most, well, I shouldn't say most of them, but the Japanese, they don't use milk. We didn't have milk. There again, when you talk about milk, the only time we had milk was when Mother had her third child, my brother Shig, you know. She didn't have milk, and so we had to get milk. There again, like you said, milk so what happens? We went out and purchased a cow. Can you imagine milk from a cow, and Mother milked the cow. I can't believe, I can't, to this day, I can't believe my mom milking a cow, but that's okay. As your necessity, you do these things but that's how we got milk. But then I shouldn't speak, I shouldn't speak for everybody. I don't care for milk myself. None of my family drink milk, but that's how we got that milk, you see. And that's the way you probably got it, you see. Even the water, we were the only one that had water on, according to our neighborhood. They all came to our place to have, get water. The well wasn't that available, you know. We have water, and the neighbor came to get the water.

LD: How did they get water? Was it filling up buckets or --

HT: Yeah. You came with buckets, yes. And then we had a well, you know. So they came, brought the buckets, and then they would bring their stock. They would bring the horses once a day and water for them.

LD: So the water that you used every day for cooking or bath or you --

HT: Had to pump it up. We had a little pump that you, I don't know how to explain it, but you had pumps and that was a chore, and that used to be a job for my younger brother, Shig and Shiro. You couldn't do it yourself. The two of them used to pump it together. And that was a job to pump the water especially for bath, bath every day, changing every day and that was a big job. We're going back pretty, go back in history. [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 13>

LD: What about the grade school you attended when you were in Parkrose? What was the name and how far did you live from school?

HT: Yeah. I started, in fact, I mentioned earlier that we came, moved down to Parkrose to, our parents sent to Japanese school. Well, we started, you started the regular school here too, also, and that was, we lived in Parkrose, but then the school was called Wilkes, Wilkes Grade School. It was about two miles. There again, I walked those, I walked those first, second, and third grade, walked to that school. So yeah, it was quite a walk, but then again, you just did those things. I can't visualize me walking two miles. I think it's roughly two miles to Wilkes School. And that school is still there, still here. It's a small school but still here, yeah. It was a one, it was a two-room schoolhouse. So we went there for, until we moved back to Troutdale again, that was 1926, you see.

LD: What about a car? What year did your family first get a car?

HT: As far as I can remember, the first car we purchased was when we were in Parkrose and it was a Model T Ford. And I still remember when we bought that, there was just a chassis and our neighbor came over. And then we had an old wagon so we cut the wagon, back wagon off and put it on the chassis, and that's what it was. That was our first, first car, yeah.

LD: How did you get it started?

HT: Well, the only way, they had the regular cranks in the front, you see, so you had to be careful too because you crank it, you hold the crank and then you put your hand, okay, I'll show you. It's like this. There's a crank like that. You hold your thumb, the back part, so you break your thumb, you see, so used to hold the thumbs, so it won't give it a chance to slip off, you see. You know, you can't, it will reverse on you, and that's the way to do it and break your thumb off and sprain it anyway. A lot of times it's hard to start those things too. But then again, like I said, and then when we moved to, that was Parkrose, we moved back home on the farm in Troutdale, we had this car, same Ford. But then one sailor came along one time a was going to sell us a Ford Touring, you know. There again, very, most of them didn't have a Touring, but then here, we had five kids riding around in back of this truck, you know. So we told, "Dad did you buy this car?" We'll never ask for another car. It was only forty dollars, and we purchased that. We had that for some time. And then of course, we bought cars later on, Grand Prix, you know. I still remember the Grand. That was one of the early models that was so-called streamline model, you see, and it was real nice. I still remember we took that trip to California to see my aunt and so we went there. And then from Fresno, we want to go to L.A. and this cousin of mine said, "I'll drive," and so we said, "Okay, you go ahead and drive." It was raining that morning, and what does he do? He turns the car over. I'll never forget that. It was a brand new car. Grand was really going a pretty good speed so but we're lucky he didn't get hurt. "Now you take over," he says. [Laughs]

LD: Well, growing up on a farm and with the car, how old were you when you first drove?

HT: As far as I can remember, I was still here in Parkrose. I must have been ten or eleven years old, you know. I don't know if I should be saying these things, but there was days of Prohibition, you know. There used to be, I don't have to mention their name, bootlegging sake, so we used to go purchase that. And actually they, they feed him the drinking. And the time he left there, Dad used to get drunk, so I used to have to drive home. That's why I know that I was driving at that age, you know. But I must have start driving at nine or ten on a farm, you know. A lot of guys do start driving in those days.

LD: During the days of Prohibition, it was interesting for everyone. Do you have any other special stories?

HT: [Laughs] Yeah, I've got some stories about that too. Like on the farm in the Parkrose, Dad used to go to Multnomah Hotel. They used to have these the garbage stuff that they get to get rid of so we used to, Dad used to pick up those about once a week, you know. It was food that they were getting rid of. And so to get rid of it, so we'd start, we raised some hogs for just for raising them, you see. So anyway, that's for food and then they would bring 'em back and put it in the containers, you know. But anyway, during that time, one time, we were making some booze too which we shouldn't, but we were doing it. And they heard that they were going to be coming out here checking out so we got scared. So Dad, they took that sake which we're making in a crock. He'd dump it into that food and fed it to the hogs. I'll never forget those hogs. They were rolled all over the pen. [Laughs] Can you imagine? They had a good party, but those were the Prohibition days.

<Begin Segment 14>

LD: How about a radio? Did you listen to the radio?

HT: Oh, radio, we didn't have a radio. We didn't have a radio. The first one we ever had was when we went back to Troutdale and we didn't have a radio, but the car, when we bought the car, it had a radio in it and that was something in those days to have a radio in the car. So another thing was we used to listen to baseball. But at that time, a good friend of our family, there was a wrestler, Japanese wrestler that just started, you know. And as you know, Isseis liked sumo and wrestling. So anyway, we, this fellow, his name was Don Sugai, lived in Salem. He's just a young kid and start taking up wrestling. So at night, we used to all, after taking a bath, we used to go out to the car and just listen to the wrestling match. That was our first experience on the radio was in a car, yeah. There's so many things that you forget about, but that was our first experience on radio.

LD: So you looked up to Don Sugai, and how about other heroes? Who do you recall being heroes that you would look up to when you were young?

HT: I have nothing right away. You think about sports. You think of Mr. Frank Fukuda, our sensei, you know. I always looked up to him being our instructor. He's always teaching us Japanese, plus coaching us, you see. The two guys that we really looked up to as far as sport goes was George Okuda was the president, not the president, the pitcher, and the shortstop is my cousin, Tom Takeuchi. Those two were the leaders in the Nisei group at that time. They were real good and we kind of looked up to them, kind of patterned after them too, yeah.

LD: Outside of the Japanese community, were there other American heroes in sports or war or whatever, the military?

HT: Oh, not really. I kind of like the in our business, kind of friendly with Don Yates, he was, kind of helped me along and kind of loved their family, and then we kind of got close. He was good to us too, yeah. But there's several in our line of business, you know. The neighbor, I mean, the association. There was Ken Santien and Don Yates, you know. We were really get close to or look up to and work together.

LD: Why did you look up to Don Yates? What was the story behind that?

HT: Well, he was, always helped me and encouraged me in the store and helped me in the store, and we had associations, you know. He was always backing me up, you know. In fact, of course we were pretty active, you know. In fact, I was elected to be president of that association. That association just happened the year that they opened up the freeway, I-84, so we had to go and make the presentation there. I'll never forget that, I was so scared. But Don helped me in those lines, you know. He was really helpful and pushed me to take active part in different things, so I give a lot of credit on that part, yeah.

LD: Was he a fellow store owner?

HT: No. No. He was... well, no. He was in the insurance. He was, at that one time, he had a furniture store too, but he had different things to do, yeah. Yeah, those all come to my mind since you mentioned it.

<Begin Segment 15>

LD: I'd like to know how it was that you heard about war starting in December of 1941. How did you receive the news?

HT: I guess through the radio and the paper, I think. I didn't have any reaction to the store and such so some people did. Somebody came right in but I didn't have that kind of an experience at all. Through media, I guess, because there again, like our store, you're so involved in your store, the lengths that you're working, you don't even read the paper really, you might say. But every year, [inaudible] was advertising. That's my part, I said, I never got around to. But, yeah, it's, up to that point, I guess it must have been things in the paper. But I never, because I never felt it that's why, so I didn't notice it either, so I think I was lucky in that respect.

LD: How much time did you have to prepare for leaving your store, for getting rid of everything you needed to?

HT: Well, probably about two weeks. I think about two weeks, yeah. There again, people came around and buying your store, you know. With a lump sum, "I'll pay you so much for your stock," and I wasn't about to sell, so, and I think it must have been about two weeks. They really had to put the, you had to make your decision, you had to move, what to do, you know. But until then, you just carried on, you see. It's not that war broke out and you lost all your customers, you know. They were really nice to me, you know. So like I said, I had some... when I left they all wrote me some notes and I thought that was nice.

LD: Would you read us some of the notes that you received from customers?

HT: This is somebody that they wanted to do, you see. This was in March of '42. It says, "Dear friend, it has been a pleasure to know you, and we are so very sorry you have to leave. Hope you will be back soon, and we'll have the Friendly Food Market again. If so, we will still be your customer. Best of luck wherever you go. Sincerely, Laverne Belger and Roberts." I thought that was nice. There's another one here. "To the boys of Friendly Market who used to get my Presto logs now, Mrs. Gear." We used to deliver Presto logs. [Laughs] Oh, I lost that now... "The whole world can't be wrong, so don't be gone so very long. Bill Olson." I thought that was nice. They're so... out of wrap that they want to leave with me. That's going back a few years. 1942, it says on here, '42, sixty years. Like this, they're all so nice, you know. They just felt bad about what happened, and you know, they just want us to come back, so never had any... yeah.