<Begin Segment 1>

RP: This is an oral history for the Manzanar National Historic Site. This afternoon we're talking with Jun Ogimachi.

JO: That's right.

RP: And Jun lives at 15060 Bluegrass Lane or Court?

JO: Drive.

RP: Drive. Drive in Helendale, California. The date of our interview is June 3, 2010. Our interviewer is Richard Potashin, our videographer is Kirk Peterson. We'll be talking with Jun about his experiences at the Manzanar War Relocation Center during World War II, and our interview will be archived in the Park's library. Jun, do I have permission to go ahead and conduct our interview?

JO: Oh yes, yes.

RP: Thank you so much for sharing some time, sharing stories and your personal history. Tell us where you were born and what year.

JO: I was born in San Fernando, California, in 1928.

RP: And what month and day?

JO: May 26th.

RP: And what was your given name at birth?

JO: The name I have now, Jun, even though nowadays they call me Juno. [Laughs]

RP: Would you like me to refer to you as Juno?

JO: Oh yes, everybody calls me that now.

RP: Okay. And you never had an American name?

JO: No. In fact, none of my brothers or sister ever had an American name.

RP: Tell us what you know about your parents. First your father. Can you give us his name?

JO: My father's name was Tamuro and he was born in 1889. And he passed away when he, in V-E Day, 1945, when he got hit by a truck.

RP: And tell us a little bit about what you know about his life in Japan before he came to America.

JO: Well, I don't know too much about his life in Japan. But he was in the merchant marines and he was an oiler on tankers, they used to, the oiler used to lubricate all the different things on the... before and then after they got married he came. So I assume that he'd been through U.S. before, but I don't know for sure.

RP: Where, where was he born and raised in Japan?

JO: He was born in Hiroshima in Japan and he lived there. I don't know how many was in the family but I know he had a brother because my uncle was living in Los Angeles. And they were sent to Heart Mountain, his family.

RP: And what was his, what was the uncle's name?

JO: Satoru.

RP: So Satoru had come over here before your father?

JO: I have to assume that because the kids were a quite a bit older because he was an older brother. And so they were, he first started with a hog ranch but then the hogs got some kind of disease and they had to... it was by Long Beach and they just dug a hole and buried them all. So after that he was doing, selling fish. Going to all the different people's houses and things and selling fish. Other than that... after the war, I don't know what he did. Well, he was pretty old by then, too.

RP: Did your father's family live in the city of Hiroshima or outside?

JO: They're on the outskirts of the, of Hiroshima. They... actually, there's a church now that I visited about a few years back and it's over two hundred years old. And it's the original building and all that. They had moved a lot of the gravesites which was back up in the mountains and then put it right beside the temple. And that's the immediate family. I don't know about all the other people that were there. But that I have seen and it's something else to see. Yeah, you wouldn't believe some of the rock and the writing that's on there. It's in Japanese, but you know, it's pretty nice. But the church now is run by not the blood related, okay, because all of the people that are descended didn't want to do it anymore. So they had this other person that was real close and she lived in the church there. She was married to... and they took over. And the place is beautiful. I mean, it's different than a lot of churches I have seen and it's not the easiest thing to... if you drive up there, find out that it's not the easiest drive trying to get up that hill.

RP: Now is it your father's family that had descended from an ancient emperor of Japan?

JO: Yes. he's a fifteenth century and he was one of the poor emperors. So he wasn't... I don't know long he was there but he wasn't too long in there. And I don't think any of the descendents are, stayed with it. They all took off on their own. [Laughs]

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

RP: So what do you think brought your father to America?

JO: I have really no idea because I know that, like it said, he was in the merchant marines, he was doing oiler, oiling on the tanker and things. And then after they married, got married to my mother, I guess they decided to come over here.

RP: Would he have been working for the merchant marine just shortly before he came to America?

JO: Oh, yes.

RP: Would he have been involved with the Russo-Japanese conflict?

JO: I don't think so. So, I don't, I didn't communicate too much with him. I communicated much more with my mother.

RP: Well, let's talk about her. First her name?

JO: Her name is Yasuko and she lived right there... she's not about a mile from where the A-bomb monument is there.

RP: She lived a mile from there?

JO: Yeah. Because I've been through there and I've been through that monument a couple times. She worked in that building that's just a skeleton now but, and she used to tell me, well, I've been to where she is, I've lived in there but the building when I went there, they had not built a church yet. And my brother went there, I don't know, two or three years ago and he says it's a church there now. And there's a big cemetery behind it and all that. And they had a big property at one time but the city came in and then when they rebuilt they needed space for a road and things so they took a lot of it and then they... so it's not as big as it used to be.

RP: Did your mother share with you any other information about her life in Japan before she came to America?

JO: Well, she did teaching over there. I don't know what she was teaching or anything. But since she lived in a church, I think there were about eighteen kids there. Now whether they were all part of the family or not I don't know but... but she said there was about eighteen kids at one time. So I guess they, when they got a certain age they had to leave, even though it was a big church.

RP: Did your parents marry in Japan and then come over together?

JO: Yes, yeah. They were married in Japan and then they came over. I don't know what kind of ship they came over on, but I don't know.

RP: Where did they first settle when they came to America?

JO: Well, naturally they came through San Francisco. And they were up in I don't know what... San Joaquin Valley for a while there. And, I think my sister was born in San Joaquin. My three brothers were born in Los Angeles, down right close to Little Tokyo.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

RP: Let's go over your siblings. Maybe you could start with the oldest first.

JO: Well, the oldest, you know, he was gotten... well, like anything, we all got together and he graduated and was going to UCLA when the war started. And then they wanted these volunteers to go up and build the, you know, the barracks and things up there in Manzanar. And so he went. And he was there about a month and a half before we got there. And when we got there he got the job of, as headin' the oil, receiving the oil and puttin' it out for all the different blocks and things like that. However, he didn't stay too long in camp because he wanted to go. He went out on that Idaho sugar beet picking for a while. Then he went Chicago and was doing other things there.

RP: What was his name?

JO: His name was Hisayuki. Yeah, he still lives in Arleta there. And they call it Nikkei Village. So he's there.

RP: After Hisayuki, who is next?

JO: Before that the oldest one was, got drafted also and he was in the MIS The next one is Yoshihito. By the way, we called each other because we had no American name, H-O, Y-O, J-O and N-O was the brother right above me. And that's how we were called when we were kids. Yoshihito, he was the mechanical minded type. I remember him workin' on trucks and motors and stuff like that. And he was very good. In fact, he was doin' that after he got out of the service. He was a mechanic and all that. However, he's one that was in the 442. He volunteered out of Manzanar and he was in G Company over there. He got wounded twice. And he passed away last year. So, and he and I got along very well. And then the next one is Naomi and they call him N-O or Niel. He lived in Eureka and I haven't seen him and I don't talk to him much because every time I call him he tells me he can't hear. [Laughs] But...

RP: What was he like?

JO: He and I did a lot of work together while we were in Manzanar. As I was talkin' to you before, we worked on the chicken farm, laying the concrete in the chicken farm and the hog farm. And laying the repair work and thing on some of the water mains and things like that. And he went and picked sugar beets also. 'Cause he graduated while he was in camp. He was a good friend of Bo Sakaguchi who was a dentist, [inaudible] And they... I don't know, he does a lot of traveling that I heard. But while in camp he got drafted and he was in the tank destroyer and went to Germany just sometime in the early part of 1945. And when he came back he says, "I'm lucky." I said, "How come you're lucky?" He says, "The tank destroyers were specifically made to go after the Tiger tanks in Germany." And he says, "We could out fire 'em but we didn't have the armor." He said, "We'd get in a battle with 'em," then he said, "that was the end of us." So he said they used to try to hit and run. So, but I guess he's doin' fine because they're doin' a lot of traveling and things. But actually the only time I saw him was at my other brother Yoshihito's funeral. But I haven't seen him since.

RP: And you had a, you had one sister, Misato?

JO: Yeah. One sister, Misato. She's the oldest in the family. They call her Mich.

RP: What do you remember about her?

JO: Well, she's the one that got married in camp. She would... had the one boy and he, during the Vietnam War, since I was in the navy, he decided he was gonna go in the navy and he was in the navy. He's now retired and lives in Las Vegas. She's still lives down there in that house which she moved into in 1951 or '52, all by herself.

RP: Where does she live again?

JO: In, Sun Valley over where Roscoe used to be. But it's Sun Valley now. So she's still there. I haven't talked to her for about a month. She and I communicate quite a bit but lately it's just sort of dropped off. And she's doing fine I think.

RP: What do you remember most about your father and maybe you could share some of the things that, maybe values or lessons that you picked up from him.

JO: Well, there isn't really too much that I... I know when I got out of line he used to chase me with a two-by-four but I could outrun him. But that was a lot... I wasn't, like you say, that close to him. I was closer to my mother than to him and, because he, I don't know, the way he was or what it was. My older brothers might be closer. I know the one that was, Yoshihito, was close to him. But I wasn't. It depends. I don't know. He had no favoritism or anything like that. But he was, he really calmed down a lot after we went to camp. He really calmed down. And so, but, there wasn't too much communication between us.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

RP: So your family, your parents started in the San Joaquin Valley and then moved down to Los Angeles.

JO: Yeah.

RP: And where did they settle in L.A.?

JO: They were on Turner Street, if you're there, by in, right outside of Little Tokyo, it's right close. And then, I don't know, he was doing fishermen too at that time. And then when we, he moved, we moved to the valley or we moved to the valley in San Fernando, they were doing hauling there, trucks. So my older brother and then they all started driving trucks. Because they'd pick up the farmers' vegetables and things and take 'em down to the market, down to Seventh Street in L.A. And I remember riding the truck one time. I was supposed to watch. People were stealing things out the back of the truck, so I was up there. Unfortunately I fell asleep. And somebody came up there and I guess they took some, but they left a bunch of fish. I was surprised, that's all. But I was only what, maybe about ten, ten or eleven at that time. I don't remember. We had three different trucks, that's why. And my mother used to load those trucks and it's unbelievable how strong some of these, the women get. 'Cause one place that I remember this one family named Tanaka, had two girls. And they were the oldest. And the boy was younger. They picked up those heavy crates like it was nothing. I couldn't believe it. I was lookin' and she picked up a load and hauled it up. But that's the way I guess the day in age and things at that time. The girls were right there workin' just as hard as the guys were. So, you know...

RP: Was your father also hauling?

JO: Yeah, he used to drive and all, yeah. He was one of 'em and my brother did one. And I think my mother was driving too.

RP: So, can you give us an idea of when would you pick up the produce? Would it be early in the morning?

JO: No, no. It'd be in the afternoon, late afternoon. Then they'd pick it up in late afternoon and then they would deliver it at night. At nine, ten or something is when you take it down to the market. Could you get it... what we had to do was go from farm to farm because you go and pick it up and then drive it down there and unload it.

RP: You went once?

JO: That's all I remember is once.

RP: Did you have to load any of the trucks too?

JO: No, I wasn't... I couldn't pick up all those things. Some of those things... you ever pick up a crate of cabbage? Boy, that thing's heavy. And you know, melons and stuff like that, they're all heavy. The lighter stuff is like green onions and like that. They're much lighter. Because they have to be all washed. They're tied up and bundled and then they're washed and then they're put in the crate. But those... a lot of that other stuff was so heavy, you know.

RP: Were there a large number of Japanese American farmers in that, in the San Fernando area?

JO: Oh yeah. I'd say there was probably thirty, forty families or maybe more.

RP: And what type of crops are we talking about?

JO: Well, like you get carrots, onions, tomatoes, and you know, melons, cabbages, lettuce. Not too much lettuce, but you know. Almost any kind of vegetables they had. So, and they were truck farmers. They're not like the big farms that they have nowadays. You're talking to people with twenty or thirty acres, that's about all. In those times everybody was doing everything by hand too so you didn't have all the machinery and all that. So, 'cause I remember they used to plow the, you had to plow and cultivate the vegetables rows and things. Because I had to ride the mule from the barn to the farmland and then from the farmland back. I didn't do any of the other stuff, but I was designated to do that when I was about eleven. But you know, there's no problem taking a mule home. Because they know they're going home. They know how to go. I don't have to do anything, just ride. It's a little different when you go out in the morning because... but it wasn't that bad.

RP: What are some of your other childhood memories about growing up in San Fernando?

JO: Oh, I don't know. I remember... I remember the earthquake in nineteen... there was a big earthquake in Long Beach and all that. And I could remember the truck was next to the platform while they're washing the carrots and stuff off. And it moving back five or six feet. And I couldn't figure out what was goin' on. I said, "How come? There's nobody in the car and it's goin' back and forth, back and forth." Because I was sitting outside probably playing or something. I remember I still can see that today. That's the first earthquake that I could really remember. And I've been through two or three of 'em. But that, you know... and I don't know. There's a lot of little things that happened. Like when I was farming out there with... everybody would have to get out there and work. And you did all the weeding and all that other stuff by hand. It wasn't where you have a machine come through and doin' all that other stuff. Even the cultivating, lot of it was done. And then the watering and things, you had to get out there and watch the water and stuff because if it starts to get away and it'll start damaging the roads and all that so you gotta watch it. I didn't have to do the real hard jobs.

RP: Where did you, where did the water for the farm come from?

JO: Well, it's the water that comes from up by Manzanar. It's, you know, they had a San Fernando reservoir before the dam broke and what it is now it used to be huge. And that's where a lot of the water come. I remember we used to farm next to it and it used to be full of rattlesnakes, right next to the water. That big reservoir. Not what it is now because it's freeway and all that there by it now. So... no, I don't know. There's what else... I don't recall too much... like we went to high school, I mean, junior high school. Because the high school, junior high was together at that time. And the town of San Fernando that we lived in, to walk to school all the time. And I can remember some of the thrifty drug stores and new stores and stuff like that comin' in.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

RP: Where did you go to elementary school?

JO: In San Fernando Elementary school right in San Fernando. At that time they had San Fernando, Morningside, and O'melveny, the only three elementary school. And the people that lived in the Santa Clarita Valley, the high school kids had to all come down to San Fernando. They had to get bussed in. And now that's quite a ways, you know, it's not... so it's quite different than now. The San Fernando has its own new high school in Lauel Canyon and the old school is the junior high. And across from there is a big new court building which I had to go in and do some... what you call that duty?

RP: Jury duty.

JO: Jury duty, yeah.

RP: What do you remember about grammar school in San Fernando?

JO: Oh, well, I remember when right after the earthquake they didn't have it. They had a bunch of little they call like bungalows. Not Quonset huts but they were similar because they were all canvas on top, the rooms were, until they started building the other building, they put the other buildings in. And at one time the school was out of bricks. So when the earthquake hit, well, you know how bricks is, there's no steel reinforcement or anything in there. So, and then, so they built that... I remember taking music lessons and the other thing I remember is basically there was, most of the kids there, I'd say about fifty or sixty percent were Mexicans. And they were not illegal Mexicans. These guys were workers and they used to have lunch in there and they used to make Mexican food and boy it was great. [Laughs] I remember that. And I also remember I was helping with that. They had this Pinocchio, had a play when I was, the last year I was there. And I was the stage manager. So I had to take care of getting all of the setting things moved and all that.

RP: You said you took music lessons in school?

JO: Yeah, I was taking violin lessons. I don't know why, because I hated it. I also made, did a lot of carving, wood carving. I haven't done any since. In fact, my daughter was asking the other day, 'cause I gave her a box that I made and it has Pinocchio on it, on all that. And I said I carved all that thing and she was asking me when I made it. Because I guess I had a label on it at one time and I guess it just tore off or whatever, underneath it. But I remember I was gonna be leaving the school. I mean, that was my last year there so the teacher says you gotta do that. So some of the time I was there, every free time I was workin' on it. Then she was asking me if I did that. A lot of things I'd, that they do... put the outline and everything and I tell you I just used carbon paper and traced it. So you know, but that's about all I can remember. I don't even remember the graduation then. I know they had a graduation in that auditorium. 'Cause it was in a newly built auditorium.

RP: So did you have close, close Mexican friends while you went, while you were in school?

JO: Oh yeah. In fact, one of 'em I don't, I don't know what happened, but the other one, he worked, it's in Seal Beach or somewhere down there. And I had just heard that he's having some kind of health problem. Otherwise, he went through all the high school and junior high. And then there were three of us that was went together all the way through. I don't remember any of the girls or anything though, but just boys. And he, I think he worked for Douglas or something, one of the other companies. And the other guy was a pharmacist. So, I don't know.

RP: What did you do for fun?

JO: When? [Laughs]

RP: When, when you were growing up?

JO: Oh, I don't know. You know, you just play out there in the street like all the kids do, baseball and lots of stuff like that. And then go out, sometime go ride the bicycle or something like that. Do other kind of sports. There wasn't too much facilities at that time, but in those days you had to do things around the house and stuff like that more than anything else whether you would... or your parents would get after you. There's not, they're not lenient like they are today. [Laughs]

RP: Did you have an opportunity to do any fishing or hunting?

JO: I don't remember. No, I think I might have went hunting a couple times with a BB gun, but that's about all. I don't think I did any fishing. And didn't do any... no, let's see, no, I didn't do any camping either I don't think.

RP: Did you, did the family pretty much work all week long or would you take Sunday off and...

JO: No, the only day we got off was Saturday. Farmers don't get Sunday off, you know. They have to pick vegetables and stuff for Monday's market. Saturday was the day you'd get off and then Saturday I was going to Japanese school. So you know...

RP: What was that like for you?

JO: It was something that I sort of regretted now that I didn't keep on going. I went to, well, I went there 'til we moved, went to camp in '42. Well, it was part of, the last part of... yeah, it was '42. And that was the end of it. I wish I'd gone on because... but I made the best of it anyway. I got married to a girl from Japan and she can do all that. [Laughs]

RP: Did... your parents spoke predominately Japanese? Did they learn any English at all?

JO: My dad never learned English. My mom was speaking some English until she got to camp. Then she worked as a janitor at the school. And then when she was there, there was a Mrs. Ealy, Helen Ealy I think it was, she was the English and Mom used to spend all the time she can with her and learned English. But even before that she used to... because even when I remember she used to speak a lot of English to me. So, yeah... and one thing she told me when I -- and I remember it today -- she said, "This is your country. Japan is not your country. You've got to be loyal to U.S," and everything. She said, "You do everything for the United States." So that, so I remember all that and it stays with me.

RP: You had a strong identification with your country?

JO: Yeah. So, well, I was with my mom until I went to the service. I was with mom all that time. And since my brothers were all in the army and I saw what's going on, I decided I would go into the navy, 'cause the navy was opened up then. And she says, "Well, you do what you have to do and you do it." So she never said anything about...

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

RP: So you attended San Fernando High School.

JO: Yeah.

RP: And...

JO: I went from San Fernando High -- well, it was junior high/high school at that time -- then I went to Manzanar. I spend what was it... ninth and tenth grade I think it was in Manzanar. Then we went, I went to Chicago. Spend eleventh grade in Hyde Park, you know, Chicago, and high, high school. Then we came back and I put my last year at San Fernando High School. And two month later I went into the service.

RP: So what occupied your interests during your high school years?

JO: Oh, I don't know. Well, some of the sports. I played football and I did some track. And then, about with a lot of interests... in those days it's not like, I mean, when you played sports you had to stay after the school thing and I lived three miles away from school and the bus was gone already so I had to walk home. So it's different. There wasn't too much other things I can do. My mom was working with the farmer there. And sometimes I would have to go out and help on the farm. And still you're talking about a small truck farm.

RP: Was the family, your family, religious at all?

JO: Well, they might have been. But after a while they just got away from it because even though my dad and my mom came from a church family, they didn't really push it. Because we had to work on Sunday. So they didn't really push it. But I did get some lecture from my mom about Buddhism and things which I remember. And she says, "The one thing you remember, you gotta really believe in yourself. If you don't believe in yourself," and then she says, "you gotta get out there. If things got to be done whether you know how or not, you do it. And so that would build your confidence and it will help you, your religious aspect and things." Which he also told me about the different kind of things like you don't come on this earth as a human before you're born, I don't know, a few times as a insect and animal and all that. And then you come in... now I don't know whether that's part of their philosophy or not but I remember her telling me that and other things. But she says the main thing, she says, the church building and all that can be there but, she says, if you don't believe yourself, forget it. I know she used to go before she passed away. She used to go to the church. And I don't know, not at all, whether every week or not, I don't really know. Because she was living by herself for a long time.

RP: Do you recall in San Fernando there being a Japanese, Japantown or section of town that devoted to the stores that catered to Japanese Americans?

JO: Well, in San Fernando there used to be a store called Nakamoto. And Ishikawa had one but they didn't, I don't know whether they survived. The Nakamotos went back to Japan I know that. It was just the father and mother. And the Arlita used to live above, on top, which had, I don't know, one, two, three, three boys or four boys. And there was a, they had a store there. And then there was a, I don't knowm the Takahashis had a... now, this is all along, well, I don't... Hollister or Kelcher or, I forgot the name of the street. Because that's within four blocks of each other. Then they, the other one was the Japanese school, they had the Japanese school on Griffith. However, they're not all... at one time maybe they lived... there used to be a little area across the street from where I lived that had about, I don't know, four or five small little homes or something in there. And they put... a lot of people lived there until they got settled or got a good job or something else and then they moved on. But I don't ever remember that all of us lived any closer than that. We lived within a block or two away from each other.

RP: Do you recall any picnics or social events where families would come together and...

JO: Well, they had the Japanese school used to put kind of things like that. They used to have the movies sometimes at night. And then they used to have some kind of picnic and stuff that they put together. But I don't remember too much about that. They didn't really have a lot of time because things weren't the greatest at that time.

RP: Right, the Depression years.

JO: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think there were that much activities going on. They had some, but not a lot.

RP: Did you, growing up in San Fernando, did you experience any discrimination as a result of your Japanese ethnicity?

JO: I did not have any problem with that, but my brothers did. One of my brothers did, 'cause he was telling me they were calling him names and things like that. Even though he had a bunch of friends, that they were like a gang, and he went, so I don't know. I didn't feel that I was getting discriminated against. But I know some of my brothers were talking about it. Well, they're older too. Maybe it's the difference. People... younger kids don't discriminate too much.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

RP: Jun, what do you remember about December 7, 1941?

JO: Okay, I was out there on the farm working. It was a Sunday. I didn't know anything about it until we come back home at about, it must have been about five or six when we got back and then somebody was hollerin' about it. That's the only time, first time I found out about it. We really didn't know for a few hours. But other than that I don't remember too much other than we just come home. You're workin' all day and come back in, you got to do a lot.

RP: Did you sense any changes after, say the next day that you went to school from schoolmates or anybody else?

JO: No. We didn't feel anything. Everybody just, it was just like they had, nothing happened. It was just normal. It was just normal. It didn't have... there was no... a few days later they start talkin' about it but I guess it, like it was a shock, that's why. You know, everybody really wouldn't know. And then nobody what was goin' on or anything. We tried... we didn't have TV in those days. So it's just whatever people were saying is what you heard.

RP: So you were about fourteen years old when you got the notice that you had to leave San Fernando and pack up and...

JO: Yeah. Yeah, well, we had moved to Pacoima, okay. And we were farming out there and then they told us, then fourteen. I was doin' a lot of things I wasn't supposed to be doing. Like I learned how to drive the truck because out there, there was nothin' out there so I get the, I got our truck and started driving the truck up and down the dirt road there. But other than that, there's... that when we learned then, and you know, there really wasn't that much information given to us either. And then when they signed the bill and everything they told us we had to get out. And so, and we had to do all that preparation for... fortunately we had, instead of trucks, we had all the trucks we had to get you know... but to do other than that. But since we had moved a lot of the stuff in the house and things were, you know, we didn't have anymore, probably got rid of a lot of it when we moved and things. And...

RP: What happened to the trucks?

JO: We had to sell 'em, almost give 'em away. One of 'em we did give to the guy who was gonna take over the farm, the Filipino guy. And he's what you call... I saw him when we come back. He was a nice guy. But you know, what can you do? I mean, there wasn't much we can do. You only had the... when they did notify us we only had a couple weeks. They didn't notice... you know, you don't have months or anything.

RP: So the Filipino man took over the operation of the farm?

JO: Yeah, yeah.

RP: And you had it when you got back?

JO: No. When we got back my dad wasn't there and my brothers were all gone and everything else. It was just me and my mom come back. So, you know, we worked with him for a while there and then I don't know, and then I went into the service. My sister moved back. She couldn't get along with her in-laws and brought the boy and he came down. But when he came down I was gone so when her husband came back down I don't know what he was doin' up there but he was, he was the oldest in that family so...

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

RP: Do you remember where you met to go to Manzanar?

JO: You mean where the bus picked us up?

RP: Yeah.

JO: It was Burbank. It was on Burbank, in Burbank. I think... what is it? No, I don't remember exactly. If I go there I might recognize the street or something. But I don't remember. Might go there... it was by, in front of the park. That's all I can remember. It had a big building there and... so you had to be there a certain time and...

RP: What do you remember taking with you to go to Manzanar?

JO: Just clothes. You take whatever clothes we could carry, that was it, 'cause you were allowed only one bag and whatever, what you can carry. So we didn't know what to expect. Since my brother was up there he was telling us. Like you know, he would say, write a letter or something and tell us. But there wasn't much. What are you going to do? We took, might have took some sheets or something like that. 'Cause he was... you know, there was no rooms in the barracks. So we hang it up, you gotta hang something up, get a little privacy which I don't think it was privacy, but it was something.

RP: You took the bus up to Manzanar?

JO: Oh, yeah. There was I don't know how many buses. There were quite a few buses. And every time they stop, if you had to go you were out there in the field. The women had a problem with that. 'Cause they... you had to go, you had to go. The men don't have that much problem. You could see them all runnin' out in the field. You know, out in the desert and you'd come back. You know, there's no place to go out there. So, you know... took something like six or seven hours. Took a long time I know. Takes you what, about five hours otherwise? Something like that.

RP: So did you have any, did you have any thoughts about what was happening at that point? Leaving San Fernando, going to somewhere in the desert?

JO: No, I don't really recall. Just, this is the way it is I guess we thought. And that's where we gotta go. They say something, that's what you had to do. There's no ifs and buts so...

RP: So you went up there just before your birthday, didn't you?

JO: Yeah. And I was sick for two weeks. I don't know, it was the mumps or whatever it was. I was, I went to the, try to go to the hospital they had no hospital. So, they said, doctor said just stay in bed. So, my mom used to bring my food for two weeks. And then every time you had to go to the bathroom you had to go out there with, to the middle of the block. Fortunately it was right there at the end of my... the men's side was anyway. Yeah, the men's was there. The women was a little further up.

RP: Do you remember where you, what block you lived in?

JO: I was in 15, barrack number 4, and the third apartment. 15-4-3.

RP: And all your brothers and sisters were with you? Or at...

JO: No. Even the one that was there before, they moved him in all that, all in together.

RP: Hisayuki?

JO: Yeah.

RP: You had, let's see, there were four brothers, a sister, and...

JO: Three brothers and one sister.

RP: There were six of you.

JO: Five. Four brothers and one sister. So, yeah.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

RP: What did you remember about the first, recall, other than getting sick, what do you remember about your first weeks or months at Manzanar?

JO: Well, the first week I remember when I got out we were lookin' and goin' from mess hall to mess hall, find out where the best food was. But you know... 'cause every mess hall was, whoever the cook was, would, they did what they wanted with the food. So the people would be talking and you would go and you would hear and that's where you would go and the food was good. And then if the food was bad, they wouldn't go. They did change that. After a while they said you can't do that. Even though some people were doing it anyway, but there wasn't as many. They were getting after people.

RP: How was the food in Block 15?

JO: Well it, after a while, because most of these, I guess, they were all men cooking and things, a lot of 'em have probably never cooked before, something like that. But eventually all of them were, all the food was getting pretty good. 'Cause most of the time the guy that was in charge knew about food. So, the thing I didn't like about it was that, going through the line with the tray and stuff all the time. And some of the food that you would get you didn't want it, but you'd get stuck with it anyway. And so... yeah, it was quite an experience going to the different mess halls. It was fun at the time to do those things. Because you weren't eating with your family. You were just a bunch a guys get together or whatever and they go all together. And it never got to a point... I don't think the family ate that much together all the time we were there. My father was cooking up there, too

RP: Oh, he was?

JO: Yeah.

RP: That's the first time he had cooked. Had he cooked before?

JO: I don't know. I don't... he didn't cook at home because I remember before my sister did a lot of cooking. She was the oldest and my mom did the cooking then. The only thing he used to do is to make shochu. You know what shochu is? Out of melon and stuff like that.

RP: Huh. You guys have a bath back on the farm too? An ofuro?

JO: Let's see. We had a, not the Japanese style. It was a regular, the bathtub. Had the regular bath. Most of the homes at that time all had bathtubs. But on the farm, the particular one, you had to go in the outhouse. They had the bath but they didn't have the toilet, so you had to go outside and around the back. And there's a hole in the ground. And... every so often they had to move it and be digging a new hole.

RP: So, school didn't start at Manzanar 'til roughly like the fall of 1942. So you had, you had the summer and part of the spring months off. What did you do during that time to occupy yourself?

JO: Well, we would look around and check it out and all that other stuff that... I couldn't do a heck of a lot. You could go out and play... they had some kids there in the block I lived in. They were two or three years younger than I was. I would play ball with them or something like that. They were learning. And, anything that... go look around. There wasn't really too much to do because they still didn't have, have a lot of the recreation things set up.

RP: You worked at the camouflage net factory for a while.

JO: Yeah, that was later on though. You know, not that first year. It was later on because... I'm trying to remember now. I think that summer of '43 or thereabouts or somewhere and while I was doing the net factory, I might have been going school and doing that after school or something, I don't remember. The, cause the summer of '43 is when I did all that cement work. Because I left in the summer of '44. I was gone. But I remember that I'm pretty sure sometime during '44 I worked in there. I also did the delivering oil in the winter of '43 and, yeah, mostly it was the winter of '43. I don't know whether I did it in '42 or not. I don't, don't recall right now.

RP: So your brother was in charge of oil distribution in the camp. And then you ended up... well, did you, were you responsible for bringing oil to the whole block or just to a...

JO: Half. Half the block. It takes quite a while to deliver that much because you got seven barracks and each barrack had at least four apartments in there, or four heaters in each. And the heaters roughly held two and a half gallons, I think. I don't know. Do you got a heater in this one they're building up there now? 'Cause you could look.

RP: Yeah, we'll get one sometime.

JO: Yeah, it's not a... I know it's bigger than a gallon.

RP: So tell us what, what would you... you'd go up to the oil tank and...

JO: Yeah. I had the key to the lock. I always had it because otherwise open that and fill the five gallon, I think it was five gallons, carry that five gallon. You could carry two of them. You know, carry them down and after you do it for a while, they get pretty light. At the beginning they're heavy. And like I said, the neighbor that's across the street, they had a baby in there and the little girl, I think she was premature baby and things like that. And she had to keep it pretty warm so I used to, got an extra container so they can keep the heat up.

RP: So were there any problems with people stealing oil because you kept that thing locked up?

JO: No, I didn't have any problem at all.

RP: So were you the only person who had keys to that?

JO: No, the person that, the regular person who did it all the time, he had a key too. He was a grown person though, you know. And if I wasn't there, I couldn't do it, he would do the whole thing. That was a regular job with him and he had to take care of all that.

RP: So you knocked on the doors and went in and...

JO: Oh yeah. Well, people did have locks to put on their doors, that's why, if they wanted. But with all the people -- what are you going to steal? People didn't have anything more than what you had. So... you never know I guess. But I did knock on the doors and then most of 'em always home. Where else would they go?

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

RP: This is tape two of a continuing interview with Jun Ogimachi. And Jun, we were talking about your, one of your jobs in camp was distributing oil to the, to the rooms. And, did, were there, do you remember people having problems with the stoves?

JO: No. I... some of 'em, you know, they would... I don't know, they wouldn't work or something like that and they just had to be cleaned or something like that. Other than that, I didn't see too much problems. You got to remember we had a, there were two or three in the rec. hall and stuff like that and other places too. So they had to be, oil had to be put in there.

RP: How about the mess hall?

JO: I didn't have the mess hall. It was on the other side.

RP: Other side.

JO: So I didn't have to do the mess hall.

RP: So who was responsible for the other side of the block?

JO: I don't remember anymore who the person that was doing that. I think he took care of the mess hall. The mess hall, I think the stove was set up a little bit different too compared to...

RP: Do you remember how many stoves were in there?

JO: No, I don't remember. I don't think I ever been in that part of it, that's all.

RP: So you go to know a fair number of people in your block just going in their, in the rooms and...

JO: Oh, yeah. Like the side that I was on was from the San Fernando Valley. The side on the other side were mostly from Venice and that area over there. So we did get, I'd get to know some of 'em. The had the barbell, they had that weightlifter and he lived on the other side and boy some of those weights are huge. I couldn't believe. But if you looked at him you can understand why he's... but he had like... they also had one barracks that had a couple apartments in there was all bachelors. So, you know... and they had one barracks with the block office in it. I think in Barrack 1 or...

RP: Uh-huh.

JO: Yeah, I think it's Barrack 1 that had the block office in there.

RP: Do you, you recall who your block manager was?

JO: Yeah. Muto was the name. What the heck was his first name? Huh.

RP: Was it Tak? Tak Muto?

JO: No. Maybe it was Fred. I don't remember.

RP: Did you work with him at all on anything on the block?

JO: Well, he was from San Fernando Valley. He was a flower grower before. And I talked to him a few times and things like that. So... 'cause he was a very good, a nice person. In fact, I used to see him quite often even when after I got out of the service and I got involved with the community center. And, so... but the whole family was there and that block living... well, he was married so the rest of the family were in a different apartment. But there was...

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

RP: Talking a little more about the block, Block 15, do you remember any gardens in the block or any flowers grown there?

JO: Well, the people in between the barracks had lawns and some of the gardens and things. In the middle there, they had a big basketball court they put in. Between Block -- I think it was 7 -- and the rec. hall they had a big garden in there. It's nothing like the ones they made out in the firebreak. They had those big water and all that, but then they, but people from all over were helping with that one. Well, these in the block, the people within the block were just doing them. They just, I guess something to do.

RP: Do you remember, you mentioned the garden between Building 7 and the rec. hall.

JO: Yeah.

RP: Do you have any other memories about what was there? Was there a few, was there a pond?

JO: No, they didn't have a pond. It was strictly a garden like thing and they had different kind... they had some big plants in there and all that. In time they grow big, so like that. But I don't recall them having a pond there.

RP: Was there any concrete work?

JO: Not that I recall.

RP: Rocks?

JO: Yeah, there was rocks, a few rocks.

RP: What did you have around your barrack? Did you have any landscaping?

JO: Well, we just had the lawn. The kids that I mentioned before and I were trying to dig a cave underneath a building. But there were so many scorpions we quit.

RP: Tried to dig a cave.

JO: Well, you know, only just... because the way it was, on the one end was pretty close to the ground. The other end they had to build it up because it was sort of slanted there. We were gonna make our own little clubhouse down there. We gave it up. Too many bugs, scorpions.

RP: Do you recall people who had cellars underneath their barracks?

JO: I think there were some, but not... I don't remember there being that many. So, you know... some places it was feasible and other places it's not feasible. It depends on where it was.

RP: So other than the basketball court and the weight lifting area, was there any other recreational...

JO: Golf. Up there, I don't know if you heard about where that one pilot came down with the plane and the wing folded. I was lookin' out the window and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I thought it was a model airplane comin' down. 'Cause the people used to fly the model airplanes down there in the firebreak. But up there on the top side by the cemetery, this guy from Pasadena, he took me out there and that's the first time I got introduced to golf. He was, it was all dirt and all that. We were hittin' golf balls out there, I couldn't believe it. Now I think about it, hey, that might have been, that's why when I went -- I didn't play for thirty years or something -- I went back and the guy I took group lessons from, he said, "You must have played golf or something before." I said, "Well, I did when I was a kid." But they... I played two or three times there. There wasn't that many holes. If somebody gets, levels a place for golf and we'd hit the ball over to it. He was pretty good, but I learned a lot of the basics from him.

RP: Do you remember his name?

JO: No, I don't. I don't... I'm terrible at names.

RP: Did he live in your block or how did you meet up with him?

JO: I don't remember whether he lived in my block or not. He might have, but I don't know. Anyway, we had to walk up there anyway so you know. Because it was well above Block 18 there. Block 12 and 18 are up on top. You play over there. They used to play to over to where that George's Creek is. That's where the fence was. But you know, there really was nothing there. And, other than that, I don't know of any other, other than the Vanguards where I played football with.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

RP: Yeah let's, let's talk about the Vanguards. How did that group form, that club?

JO: That I don't know because when I joined it they were formed already. And this guy asked me and he, because it's, they're playing football and he says, "Do you play football?" And, "Yeah." So, I start playing with them. And they did all, some of the other social events too. I remember we were playing football and they had that big riot there that they had. And we saw that crowd coming down. We didn't know what it was. We were playing football in the yard, out in the firebreak. We said, oh, there's people going down. So, yeah. Well we played, I think I played about three games. That's about all I played. There weren't too many other people to play against that's why. We used to play against the Bluefin Tuna which was a group from Terminal Island, San Pedro.

RP: Bluefin Tuna?

JO: Yeah. They called 'em Bluefin. They called 'em Bluefin. They didn't say tuna, but Bluefins. So, yeah. I don't think there's too many people from the Vanguards left. At the last reunion, Manzanar reunion, I talked to this guy that I knew very well. We used to get along and he was in Chicago and other places. He was back in Santa Monica but they say he passed away.

RP: What was his name?

JO: Henry... starts with a Y. What the heck... Yoshino.

RP: Yoshino.

JO: Yeah, Henry Yoshino.

RP: How many boys were in the club?

JO: Well... I don't know. About a dozen, maybe a little more. 'Cause everybody that was in it had to play football.

RP: You said you guys had other social events. What were some of those?

JO: Well, with the Forget-Me-Nots, you know. Well other than that there wasn't that much... had a few other things I guess. I don't recall.

RP: Dances?

JO: Huh?

RP: Did you have dances? Dances?

JO: No, I don't think so. Yeah. There was a couple other guys that are still there. I don't know what happened to 'em but, 'cause I haven't seen 'em. I asked about 'em at the reunion but nobody knew so I don't know. We don't get that many people there. When at the reunion I saw about oh, at that table I sat, there was four girls and this one guy that I know, Shig Kuwahara. And I didn't see anybody else. So...

RP: Tell us about the Forget-Me-Nots. How did you get together with them?

JO: Oh, they did little dances and stuff like that. You get together. There wasn't much else you could do. You couldn't go anywhere and do anything. So they used to have dances together.

RP: And who were, do you remember some of the girls that were involved with that club?

JO: Well like I was saying, Alice Sakuma. I can't... I don't know who they all got married to. And there was... Miyoko Oshiro, Yuki Shigemori, Betty Yamada... oh boy. It's been a long time. I don't remember all that. That's the ones that I remember right now. Names are really going by. [Laughs]

RP: Yeah, right. Did you, did you dance in camp?

JO: Oh, yeah. What else can you do?

RP: Did you learn how to dance there or had you danced in high school before?

JO: I probably learned how to dance there, I think. Because I don't remember dancing before I went there.

RP: Do you ever remember dancing to a band called the Jive Bombers?

JO: Oh, yeah. Yeah, by the way, when I was up there I took up the clarinet you know.

RP: Tell us about that.

JO: Oh, well, I was only, done it about a year and then I left but when they dedicated that auditorium, where the building that you're in now, we were, I played in the band there. And I liked to froze my butt off. It was cold and I just had a white shirt on. But let's see, that was probably May, I think it was something like that. Anyway, before the high school graduated, they graduated a class inside there. But I don't know whether I was there or I was gone because I left in June. I think they, I think they graduated before I left.

RP: So you took, did you take lessons up at the music hall?

JO: Well yeah. Which was up there by the hospital. I had a very good teacher.

RP: And did you purchase your instrument through the music hall? How did you get that?

JO: Did I get it there? I don't really recall. I think I got it from somebody else. They had it and took it at one time and then quit. So... my granddaughter has it now. I don't think she's playing. She'd like to play the flute more than anything else.

RP: Do you remember the music teacher at the high school? Louie Frizzell?

JO: Oh yeah. I know Frizzell. I played in the band with the... yeah, the yearbook there's a picture. He's sittin' up there with the band. Yeah, he was a great guy, I thought he was. So...

RP: Were there other teachers that you remember who had an impact on you?

JO: Well there was... well, I was in class with the Greenly which was, he was the blind teacher. And there was another teacher and she was something else. I thought so anyway. But I don't, I don't remember too much other than that. I know Helen Ealy. Because I think... yeah... no, that's about all I remember now.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

RP: Let's talk a little bit about your work at the chicken ranch and hog ranch. Were these summer jobs?

JO: Well, it was a summer job. And my brother and I were workin' there. We were the cement mixer. We used to... now this isn't the little bitty cement mixer. It's a big one that takes one sack of cement at that time and we used to have to shovel those rocks and the sand and we had to count it. And then we put the... the finisher was a very good finisher and he just wanted it so, so. So much water, you know, and the thickness and all that's gotta be just right. And he did that while we poured it. He also was the one who supervised all the foundations and all that that we put in, that he put in. I don't recall his name and even then I don't think I knew his name. But he was the last one to do anything there because he just wanted the cement just so, hard and all that before he did the finish work on it. And he did the finish work. And I learned how you had to do a lot of things. Because when you have a big slab to put in there, which they didn't have the modern equipment where you could just run it back and forth. You did it by hand and he had a, he's got to stand on something. And then everything gets put on a certain way. So you learn through experience, I guess. And we did, we did the chicken ranch and about a month later they decided they wanted a hog ranch so we're doing that. We did basically the foundation all was about the same, similar. Where the hog ranch you had to have an opening so they could put 'em out. The chicken ranch, I don't know... after we put the foundation on I never did see how they put the building up after. Or either the hog ranch. The other cement job we did was fixing the water, farmland water mains that were out there, and they were, a couple of 'em broke and we had to pour cement around it to fix 'em back up. And that was something else. He had a... they were about six feet high so we had to push wheelbarrows loaded with cement up there. And usually we used to load a wheelbarrow with just about half, one quarter and then take about a fifty feet running start and halfway up they would get two persons to help us the rest of the way up. Because the cement is not light. And when you're going up six feet it's something else. 'Cause we didn't have any kind of equipment that they could just pour it in. And we did that for one day and got it all fixed, fixed up and that's about, most of the cement work I did up there.

RP: So, you, you dug the trenches for the forms, too?

JO: Oh, yeah. We'd help put the foundation forms all in. So you know, we were out there... it didn't really, well, we didn't work no eight hours a day there. Worked about six hours most of the time. But you never know. When you're doing the cement, though, you gotta stay until it's ready. Even though we were done, well, we got through and he was doin' the finish work, but we worked out there. Because we were outside the fence so they had trucks taking us in and out. So we had to wait until we get back on a truck and go back in.

RP: Where did you take, where did you have lunch? Would they take you back to your mess hall?

JO: Yeah, they usually took us back to the mess hall. Because they didn't... sometimes, once in a while they used to bring some food out. A lot of times some of the workers, they had us stay put there. Well, they used to bring the food for them and then there were some people who'd go back in and eat and come back. But there wasn't that many trucks. I think there were one or two trucks was all, all we had.

RP: You had a... how large a crew did you have working on those projects?

JO: How large a what?

RP: How large a crew did you have working on those concrete projects?

JO: Oh... probably a dozen. Yeah. People were doing different things. Because the drivers of the trucks, they didn't, weren't allowed to work. They drove. That's all they were supposed to do was drive. We had to try to keep different people busy.

RP: So you started, started golfing at Manzanar and then you did some concrete work. Did you ever work concrete again in your life?

JO: The only concrete work I did was on the first house I bought. I had to put a little sidewalk on the front and that's the only thing I did, and other than that I haven't done any. Except putting poles in the ground or something like that. That was about all.

RP: Now your sister, Misato, got married in camp.

JO: Yes.

RP: Tell us about that. Who did she marry?

JO: She married a guy named Theodore Vincent Sakurai.

RP: And where was he from?

JO: He was from Tracy, California. So you know, how they met and things I don't know.

RP: Do you remember the ceremony at all?

JO: Not too much. But I don't know. 'Cause they don't have cameras or anything like that so there wasn't any pictures that I can recall. So was it 1943 or something, sometime in there, I don't really remember the dates. All I remember is the boy was born ... what was it, Saint Patrick's Day, 1944.

RP: Patrick.

JO: Yeah, Patrick.

RP: Did your sister work in camp?

JO: When we first got there, since she was going to college before that and she was teaching, gee, I don't know, grade school. And which they were using the rec. halls for. And I don't know how long she did that. She didn't do it very long that I know of. But that's the only thing I remember that she did. Other than that I don't know.

RP: You said that your dad worked as a cook.

JO: Yeah.

RP: Did he also hold other jobs at Manzanar or did he...

JO: Not that I know of.

RP: How about your mother?

JO: Well, she worked as the janitor at the school. And then... other than that I don't think she did anything else.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

RP: So why did you decide to leave camp?

JO: Well, I don't know. My, like my sister's husband was in Chicago and my older brother was in Chicago and I guess we didn't see any future there. So we got up and... I didn't have the decision to make. They made it. My mom was the one that made the decision. My dad didn't go with us. He wanted to stay. He didn't want to go so he stayed. And my brother right above me was... I don't, he might have been out there picking beets. I don't know but he, anyway, after he finished he went back to Manzanar and then he got drafted. We went to Chicago and was there. My oldest brother got drafted out of, when he was in Chicago too.

RP: So did you, you traveled with your mother to Chicago?

JO: Yeah, well, my mother and my sister and Pat, Patrick. I had to help babysit, I guess. In those days, those trains were something else, too. You'd get all the studs and all the old black smoke and all that. And the trains were something else. Not like today's trains.

RP: Do you remember anything else about the trip to Chicago?

JO: No, just sit there and wait it out. It takes, it was then a couple days.

RP: And when you got to Chicago where did you live?

JO: We lived at Drexel Manor for about a month or something like that. Full of bedbugs, oh boy. Then we moved to, my sister's husband had a place in 55th Street and Kenmore, with, towards Hyde Park and so we moved there. The first, the Drexel Manor we were living we stayed there with my oldest brother. He stayed there. We moved out. And my mother and I had one bedroom. And my sister and her husband, they had the whole kitchen and all that so we just, she did all the cooking and all that other stuff I guess. I worked, I went to Hyde Park High School and then I was working at nights at the HP Smith paper company. I worked swing shift.

RP: What's that?

JO: Swing shift.

RP: Swing shift. What did you do there?

JO: Pardon?

RP: What did you do at the paper company?

JO: Oh, I was help... they'd cut paper... at that time I think on the particular machine that I was behind was they used to have the, wrap the cigarettes and it was a gray type paper and they used to cut it all up and roll it up and then after they cut it up and after somebody feeds and things. And then they roll it off and we would wrap that whole half a dozen or so together up and that's what I was wrapping and put it in the box. So, it was just a manual type labor thing. It's fine.

RP: You grew up in a small community called San Fernando and then you find yourself in Chicago. How did you take to Chicago?

JO: The thing... the worst part I remember is the weather. That weather is something else. In the wintertime it's windy and cold. In the summertime it's hot and humid and never cools off at night. We used to go to the movie house way up on top and sleep 'cause you couldn't sleep at home because all the apartments in Chicago at that time did not have air conditioning. And the fan didn't do a heck of a lot of good. And then in the wintertime, well, they had heat anyway. But it was something else to be outside. I remember going about a hundred feet or so and falling down five times because it was so slippery underneath and you couldn't see it. It was frozen underneath. It'd snow and freeze and stuff and you'd walk across and boom, you're down. So that's the last time I took that shortcut. [Laughs]

RP: So how long were you in Chicago, Jun?

JO: I was there only a year. I left a year later. So, I also worked at a liquor distribution company there and it was something else. 'Cause I was the youngest guy there you know. I was walking and one day the bottle of gin broke and there were two little colored ladies that were doing the packing, they got up and drank that whatever, you know, straight. And I looked at it. So I took a taste of it. How could you taste that? It's awful. Tastes like soap. But that's it. When you're young, I learned. But it's an experience and also went downtown. I used to have to ride the El all the way down into town. And in those days the El was sometimes, was the transportation that I guess they still have it. But it was something else, especially in rush hour. You get in there and boy you get jammed in there. 'Cause everybody's trying to get on, regardless. They used to have them run pretty often too. So while I was in Chicago, I also went to their museum and things so I saw a lot. Navy Pier, which is over there. And the big place where the Chicago play football, Soldier Field. They also had Illinois Central which I used to ride because there was so much traffic. It's a play train and it runs right into downtown. But that's where it ends. Then if you want to go somewhere else you gotta start walkin' and transfer or whatever. Well there's actually no transfer so you had to get off there to the El or the buses or whatever.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

RP: And you returned back to San Fernando to the farm?

JO: Well, at first I came back and my uncle had a, had a place in L.A., which was under the older son's name because he couldn't own the place. And we stayed there for about a week, I think. And then we went back to San Fernando, Pacoima. And we lived in the garage there for a year. It was all fixed up with beds and all that. And the lady who owned the place, we knew her before the war and we used to eat sometimes with her. 'Cause she was only alone. Big house. But she was very nice.

RP: And your father, you said your father chose to stay at Manzanar?

JO: Yeah. He did go to Chicago and he was working. I don't know what he was doing. But he was on his way to work on V.E. Day. It's when he got hit by a truck on the crosswalk. And so he never knew that the war ended. So he was gonna come back to Manzanar I think the following week or something like that.

RP: Now you had, both your parents were from Hiroshima area.

JO: Yeah.

RP: How did you feel about, when you heard the news about the bomb being dropped on that town?

JO: Well, I really didn't think too much about it because today, that's war. That's part of the war. And then they dropped the bomb. I think my mom might have been a little bit upset because where she lived was about the center where that bomb hit. That was not the target you know. She was tellin' me the target was out where the... well, I think that's confirmed too that where the navy and their navy and where all the big supplies were, you know, war supplies and stuff like that. Well, they missed the what you call it... where they were going, and they lived, where she lived is about where there was the center. So, I don't know. To me, it was just an... she was a little bit upset about it because I don't know how many relatives or things were there. Even though she had relatives that had moved out and were all on different parts of Japan. I have never seen any of them. The only one I know of where that church was, where she was grew up and where my, where my dad was, grew up. So, that's about all I can tell you about when I think about it. I've been to that site. I've also been to Nagasaki where the, where the other bomb hit. In fact, I was in Nagasaki a year ago in April and unbelievable how it is, wow, what it looked like. I mean, they didn't wait. It's all really built up. It's really modern, too. And another thing about Japan that we should, they don't do here, the place is clean. The streets and all that are really clean. What they, what I understand, they get all their people and then they all give 'em a job so they don't have to get welfare and all that. And they're out there, maybe not all day, but they're cleaning and stuff up. And it was really surprising.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

RP: So you graduated from San Fernando High, 1946. And then you were, shortly after that time what happened?

JO: Yeah. I graduated in June and then in July I went into the navy.

RP: Navy.

JO: And I was, did my boot camp in San Diego. And then they sent me to the clerical school all the way back to Bainbridge, Maryland, for a couple months. Then they turned around and sent me all... that was end of the year, and in January '47 they sent me all the way back to San Pedro to get on the USS Iowa. I was assigned to the USS Iowa. And they were just coming out of the yard period so I was on there and I put well, it's gotta be a little over two years on the Iowa. And I put it out of commission the first time in 1949. And then I was in, stationed in San Francisco, Hunters Point Naval Shipyard until 1950 when my time was up. And they decided that, they asked me if I'd go to Japan for a couple years. So I said, "Okay, I'll stay another couple years." I go to Japan. I was still single then. Then, unfortunately on the, got out one day. I was on the USS Chara AKA going to Japan, and one day out they turned it around because the Korean War started. And they loaded us down with ammunition because they needed ammunition on it, so they didn't have any. And we, two days later we went out. And the top speed on that particular ship is fifteen, sixteen knots when it's loaded like that, with no escort. So were going. Like the Iowa, even once she's loaded, she's doing twenty-five knots. When she's going full bore she could go up to about thirty-three. I've been on it when it was thirty-three. But we went out there and it took us about sixteen days to get to Japan. And then we transferred to the receiving station Yokosuka and I spent the night there. And the next day, when I get up I was, told me I had to go out there and move ammunition. So I went. They didn't care what rate you are. They needed the help. However, two hours later I got a call and I got chewed out. He said, "What you doin' out there?" And I said, "I'm doin' what they told me to do." "No, you're supposed to be going on a train down to Sasebo." He said, "You got two hours to pack your stuff and get on and go."

So I put about a year in Sasebo. That's when I met my wife and we got married. They changed the thing. Up to the point 'til about, I don't know, July or something like that or, you couldn't get married over there. No servicemen could get married. And they changed it. Well, and decided I would get married. I don't know what... it took us about four months to get paperwork cleared for... because she was born in Osaka, raised there. And the war started and they went to China because of all the incendiary bombs and all that. Then she come back and then after that, while I was there, I was doing, I had in charge of the food, the food warehouses. I was supplying mostly the smaller type ships. And when they were bringing... it was, in the beginning it was tough because there was only sixty-seven people there when I got there. And then we were working, I don't know, twelve, sixteen hours a day because the merchant ships start coming, and they divert a lot of the merchant ships that we're supposed go to some other port and then come to us. And all the stuff that was on top was all for the other place. We had to unload that, then load our stuff, unload our stuff, and then load their stuff back on. So that was something else. While I was there also, I had to teach the Japanese that we hired to drive forklifts. And they had never driven anything before. You don't think that was something else. And they put me in charge of that too. So, I had 'em out there. I used to put 'em on, get 'em started and then I'd run. [Laughs] But...

RP: You had some beer that went missing.

JO: Yeah. Well, while we were unloading beer and things, sometimes we'd unload the beer and one night they came up with about five hundred cases short. And they were lookin' for it all over. And we had put it, that, some extra beer inside our warehouse with the other beer. So they never did find it. Well, they didn't even think about checking that. So, we had about five hundred cases of beer. Oh, we didn't have time to drink beer too much at the beginning. But by the time when I left Japan they, well, they had an enlisted-men's club which has beer and all that. It was quite different. The supply office was moved from the administrative building to the auditorium and then they went out to a place called SSK, a big building. So I helped move all those records and stuff like that.

RP: Where did you have, take your meals when you were working there?

JO: The meals, they had a mess hall there. We used to... and like I say, the meals are not like the regular line in the navy. They had, everything was on a table. You get in there and sit down and you eat. And anything runs out on the plates on the table you, you just hold it up and someone would pick it up and refill it. And when you're done you just get up and walk away and they would clean the table for the next group to come in. You didn't do any of that. So the, however, when, like I was mentioning, we were doing the twelve or sixteen hours, we didn't have time to go eat so they used to bring some food out to us to eat.

RP: Do you recall, were there other Japanese Americans that were serving in the navy at the time that you were?

JO: When I went in there was a guy named, I think his name is George Iwata. He was from Block 12, I think. He was electronics guy. It was a guy named Kenny Fujimori. I don't know where he came from but he was in there. And I think there was a guy named George Maeda too. When I was in Japan there was guy there, Tenmo, and he was something else. He's much younger than I was. I had to, I chewed him out a couple times. Because I said, "Hey, you're not really giving a good impression of us." Because when I went to Japan, they hated the Nisei soldiers and things and sailors... I don't know about sailors because there wasn't that many. But I know I heard some conversation about whether they're gonna like me or not. So you know... I'm stuck anyway so it doesn't matter. You like it or not I'm here.

RP: How long did you work at, in the warehouses?

JO: That warehouse about a year.

RP: A year.

JO: Yeah.

RP: You were back on a ship again weren't you?

JO: Yeah. Well, I got married and then I got orders to come back to recommission a destroyer. And my wife couldn't come with me. Because first I had all the paperwork to get married and then I had all the paperwork to get a visa. So even though she was on a non-quota I had all this stuff so she didn't come until September of '51 I guess it was. And, but so, and I recommissioned that destroyer and you're going from a battleship which is like a floating city to a little bitty tin can that bounces all over the water. And then I got discharged out of that. I did recommission it. They retrofitted it, it went down to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba for training purposes and then when they come back they were going to Korea but I got out. So, you know...

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

RP: And you eventually launched a career as, for Lockheed?

JO: Yeah. Then I come back and I worked some little company for a month and Lockheed was on strike. So, and then I went Lockheed and I worked in their production machine shop for a couple years and decided, oh boy, they can only go so far. Even though I was getting the, upgraded. I went back and took a big cut and pay and went through the apprenticeship program to be an experimental machinist. I don't know whether you know what an experimental machinist is. Experimental or a general machinist, you run all kinds of different machinery, regardless. And there we used to get a, something like a hundred pounds of metal and there's a blueprint and you make it. So whatever it takes, whether you run a lathe, a metal machine, a boring bar, a grinder or whatever, you had to know. And that's kind of training I got. I did that until the training I think until '59 or somewhere in there, '58 or '9, I finished up. I got all the credit for the time I worked in the production shop, too.

So I did that, I worked on the, some of the first, this C-130 airplane that Lockheed made. They're still making it in fact. And P-3 and they'd just converted from the Electra to the P-3 when I worked on that. I worked on the model that they had for the L10-11 when it first started. It was making parts and things. I didn't actually do the work on the plane itself. Even though a couple times I had to go in there because some of the things they had, the guy says engineer wasn't really sure. He said, "You'd better go in there and take a check and see." So I had to go check and see what the size and stuff check and things. The first pylons on the P-3 wings that they have, the fitting up there, I worked on those. And if you people don't know anything about the fittings, they're compound angles. They're not a straight one way angle or two way angle. And to cut that, it's completely something else. I mean you don't set the two angles and cut it. You've got to compensate and everything because as soon as you set the second angle, it changes the first angle. And they, I had to work that out. It took me two days to do all the calculations on that. And the boss come over and he's lookin' saying, "What are you doing?" I says, "I got to calculate this." He just says, "Oh." But he wasn't a machinist so he didn't know. But after that he left me alone. I didn't --

KP: Five minutes left.

RP: Okay.

JO: I didn't get to finish the part because they pulled me to another machine, and another part. This part started at six hundred pounds. It's an aluminum part which was a... you could carry the bombs for the 104 and they ended up forty pounds. So you could imagine how much machine work there was on that.

RP: Oh. So how many years did you put in with Lockheed?

JO: Thirty-seven years. Well, I went from there to finance. I worked in finance for six years, and I was pricing all engineering changes and what they call re-work, government furnish equivalent. The funny part, you know, government furnish equivalent, you think you're getting a new parts. Uh-uh. They used to get a lot of parts that the navy people, something happened to it and they, the white hats would change it but never tell anybody. So when they came in, they had a surplus, they'd send it to us. And we put it in the plane, it don't work. So we had to take it out and, well, all that is not included in the price of the airplane. So I had to, that's what I was doing for a long time, pricing that. I also priced, they had a lot of engineering change. And the last big job I had... then I went to procurement. And procurement I was pricing all subcontractor parts that were furnished to Lockheed. And the last job before I retired I had to go to Portugal before they were... sold planes to Portugal and they were updating and retrofitting them. And that was something else. I really didn't want to go on that trip. I enjoyed it, but then it was something else. And then when I, after I retired they called me back because they were having some trouble with the pricing. And I said, "Did you check this, check that?" No, we didn't check it. And then when I went back then they called the Portugal, and they said, "No, they didn't use this money. They didn't..." It's different how government does their pricing. So you're... quite different. I don't know how they did it with you but... [Laughs]

RP: Oh, yeah, they got a different system for us.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

RP: I was gonna ask you, did your mom ever apply to become a citizen of the United States?

JO: Oh yeah, she wasn't a... when was it? The first was it 1954? You remember when my mother got her citizenship? Same time you did?

Off camera: What?

JO: Did you, do you remember when you got your citizenship paper?

Off camera: Citizenship?

JO: Yeah, what year? I don't know.

RP: I think it was around 1952.

JO: No... well she, she got it right at... it might have been like that. That was, it was right after, shortly after they authorized it. I don't know when it was. And she got hers... when did you get yours?

Off camera: Huh? Oh, okay. Naturalization certificate?

JO: I got it...

Off camera: When... okay, date, April 15, 1955.

JO: Oh, 1955. So my mother had got it before that.

RP: Okay.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

RP: Jun, just to go back to camp a little bit. Do you recall anything about your experience working in the camouflage net factory at Manzanar?

JO: Well, I used to go by it all the time. So, I think my sister worked in there for... once sometime. But it wasn't really a hard job. They had, they had a pattern and you just go and you start weaving those in between all the different strips and things like that. But it was a job and that's all, that's all I can remember. And I know a lot of people who are mentioning, they said why were we doing it while we're in, got thrown in that camp and things. It didn't come to my mind. So, but I didn't have any problem with it.

RP: And you mentioned earlier that your mom was very explicit in telling you that this is your country, America...

JO: Yeah.

RP: ... and you should support and be loyal to your country. And your country put you in a camp like Manzanar. Did it, did it affect you later on in life? How did that experience impact you later?

JO: Well, as far as I'm concerned it was an experience but I don't really... it's, it happened and that's the way it is. Maybe it won't happen anymore, but it's something that at that time is... I don't have any animosity or anything like that. It's something that... decisions and stuff that were made at the time and that's... some of the things that are happening right now I don't care for because the time when I come in... most of the people all came in were legal. And now they... and they're giving all the stuff to illegals. And well, in those days we didn't have welfare and all that other stuff. And then now to give the legal people welfare and stuff, I have nothing against that. But to keep... yet people that are illegal, then I'm not really for that at all. I mean, it's... because in our days we worked for everything. And most of the... even if you come over legal... because a lot of the restraining things that are in, comin' over here as a legal, legally, says that you gotta be able to do this and do that and that you're not gonna be a burden on the government and all that. So, that... what happened in those days, I don't regret any of it.

RP: Do you recall getting an apology letter and a check for twenty thousand dollars?

JO: Oh yeah. I got that in 1992. I wasn't... the younger ones got, got it later. The older persons got it I think in 1990 or something like that. There was a lot of, some of the people I knew didn't anything about it and I was telling them about it.

RP: How did you feel about that?

JO: Well, it's something that happened. I don't know. If you talk about today's age and stuff like that, it wasn't enough. But you know, at that time, well, all I could say is better than nothin'. That's... but that's the way. You got to, there's certain things that they do and things and I have very, quite a bit of respect for President Reagan. And there's a lot of things that I think he was a great president. So...

RP: Have anything to add? Okay. All right, well Jun, thank you on behalf of Kirk and myself for your, for sharing your stories and your...

JO: Well you're very welcome.

RP: ...your camp experiences.

JO: If there is anything I can... you know, I don't know, you might think of something that you need, anything later, you could just give me a call.

RP: Okay.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2010 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.