Densho Digital Archive - Margaret Saito Interview (denshovh-smargaret

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KP: Anything else stands out, your memory about your time at Heart Mountain?

MS: Well, I remember the time that somebody in our block drowned. His name was Toru Shibata. And is his brother here, lives in Sacramento? There are Shibatas here in Sacramento. It's either his brother or his cousin that we know. But there was a swimming hole in Heart Mountain and he drowned. That was a pretty big deal in the camp newspaper.

KP: How old was he when he drowned?

MS: I don't know if he was a teenager, but young. So that stands out as something.

KP: And he drowned in a swimming hole?

MS: Yeah, in the swimming hole. So I think lots of people remember that.

KP: Richard, did you have any questions before we leave the camp?

RP: Yes, Margaret, when you were part of the drill team, did you perform these activities for any athletic events, like football games? You weren't like cheerleaders, were you?

MS: No, we weren't cheerleaders. I don't think we performed at any athletic events.

RP: How about --

MS: I don't know. I don't know why we had a drill team. It's just a mystery. I don't know, but here I am in that drill team. I don't know what the reason, or how it came to be or anything.

RP: Did you have batons, too, that you --

MS: No, no batons, just those pompoms. That was it.

RP: Do you also recall a very special visitor to Heart Mountain, his name was --

MS: Ben Kuroki, yes, yes. Last year we had the film of Ben Kuroki, the Most Honorable Son. So we showed that at our film festival.

KP: Could you tell us who Ben is and what you remember about that?

MS: Well, he's a person from Nebraska, he never was in camp. And he was fortunate enough to be in the army air corps I think. By fluke, I think, because they didn't want any foreigners in there. So, but he did fly in bombing missions. It said how many in this film. And he did come to camp. Although some people were proud of him, some weren't. Because he wasn't even, when you think about it, he has nothing to do with camp. But they considered him a hero.

RP: Do you remember his visit?

MS: I do remember. I do remember reading in the Sentinel? That he was coming, so his name was familiar to me. It wasn't like I didn't know about him.

RP: Did you actually see him in camp?

MS: I'm not sure if I actually saw him. I don't think I went there.

RP: You didn't attend any activities?

MS: No, I don't think it was anything for me, that made me feel like have to be there.

RP: But there was mixed reviews?

MS: Yes, there were. The other thing I remember is that time that we went with a wagon of empty glass bottles to get water from the Shoshone River.

KP: Why did you do that?

MS: We had a neighbor, Mr. Ogawa, and his wife was Caucasian and she was really a tall woman. And they would go get water from the -- you know these people are from before our time, these people knew something. But, so we remember going with them, my sister and I and Mr. and Mrs. Ogawa to get water. Imagine that, it was just beautiful, this isn't deep, it's where rocks... it's just beautiful.

KP: They didn't want to drink the water in the camp?

MS: I don't know. I don't know why they... I don't think they did that all the time but I do remember that one time that we went and it was all these glass bottles in a wagon that I don't know where he got from. But just a plain old wagon and that was really lovely.

RP: Do you recall other Caucasians in the camp?

MS: Yes, I remember Estelle Ishigo. Because she was blond and she was drawing and I bought that book, and I can't find that book, of her drawings. But I remember her well.

KP: Did you watch her draw?

MS: I don't know if I watched her draw. And then we had that movie, Days of Waiting where Bacon, and some others found her. And so that's a beautiful story. I remember her.

RP: Can you tell anything more about Mrs. Ogawa?

MS: Other than that she was tall in stature, and she was pretty big, too, not fat but pretty big, and they had no children. I don't know where they were from before camp, after camp, I have no idea. But they were right across, our barracks faced their barracks. They had a small barrack but it faced their barrack. So they were in block twelve.

KP: So is the, do you remember VJ Day when the war ended?

MS: I do. I do remember it, hearing it on the radio or from other people, but I do remember VJ Day. But that's it. I don't remember any whooping, hollering or --

KP: Do you remember what you thought about it? Did you think, "Now we're going to leave the camp?" Or did you make that connection?

MS: I don't know what I thought about it. I don't have any thoughts one way or the other.

KP: Do you remember what your mom was like at this time? I mean, after the divorce and stuff like that? Did you see a change in your mother at all?

MS: No.

KP: She kept it close.

MS: I think so. Yeah, that's the nature of our people, kind of. [Laughs] Of course we are getting away from it but that generation, they did keep things to themselves.