Densho Digital Archive
Manzanar National Historic Site Collection
Title: Phyllis Fechner
Narrator: Phyllis Fechner
Interviewer: Richard Potashin
Location: Visalia, California
Date: December 15, 2009
Densho ID: denshovh-fphyllis-01

<Begin Segment 1>

RP: This is an oral history interview for the Manzanar National Historic Site. This afternoon we're talking with Phyllis and John Fechner.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: Phyllis lives at...

PF: Here you mean? (...) 2400 West Mid-valley, in Visalia, California. And we've lived here about five years.

RP: This interview is taking, is happening on December 15, 2009. The videographer is Kirk Peterson, Richard Potashin is the interviewer. And we'll be talking with Phyllis about some of her memories of growing up in Bishop, California.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: Also, we want to frame our interview today discussing some of her experiences or her different experiences with the area called Manzanar. Our interview will be archived in the site's park's library. And, Phyllis, do I have permission to go ahead and record our interview?

PF: Sure, uh-huh.

RP: Thank you very much.

PF: Of course.

RP: This is tape one. And let's start right at the beginning. If you can give us your date of birth and where you were born?

PF: I was born in Fullerton, California, on July 8, 1930. And when I was eight months old my parents moved to Bishop March of 1931. And my dad worked for the Department of Water and Power for City of L.A.

RP: What was your father's name?

PF: Roy Frank Carr.

RP: And what, give us a little bit of background about your family starting with your dad. What was he doing in Fullerton?

PF: He was driving a creamery truck. And the favorite story they told was about him coming to pick Mom up for a date and he had an eskimo pie for each of them in his pocket and how he kept that from getting melted I don't know. Maybe he drove the ice cream truck there, but he was working for the creamery for some time. When they got the opportunity to come to Bishop, I'm not quite sure. But they were married in 1927. And they moved there in '31, so... I guess he lived in the L.A. area for several years. (...)

RP: How did they meet?

PF: (...) They were kind of neighbors I believe in Kansas. (Both) the families lived in Ottawa. And my mother was born in Garnett. And so, you know, a lot of farms and stuff and I suppose they got acquainted that way. I don't know, to tell you the truth.

RP: So their relationship actually began in Kansas and then...

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: ...they both came to California.

PF: Uh-huh. And my mother was here... (...) first because she was taking a course of, a secretarial course. And I believe Dad followed her here. She was staying with a woman in -- it's kind of cute -- in Fullerton, Mrs. Vanskoik, and Mrs. Vanskoik always said of Mom, "Marguerite likes any color if it's red." [Laughs] Mom's favorite color was red. And they were married, I believe they were married right there at Mrs. Vanskoik's in the little house that they (then) rented from her. And (...) Dad got the job with the DWP

RP: Is that, was that job something that had already been prearranged?

PF: I believe so. I believe they made some trips up here to visit some friends of theirs who lived here, or lived there (in Bishop) -- I'm thinking I'm in Bishop -- (...) the wife's mother was the owner of the bakery, Schat's Bakery. And I believe that's how Dad got the job. Kind of through Harold I'm sure, Harold Kelly. And I can remember going to the gorge and swimming up there with the Blair girls, and Mr. Blair taking videos of us. And then coming to the schools and showing everybody the movies of the kids playing in the water. And things like that. (...)

RP: And tell us, Phyllis, what did your father do on his city job?

PF: He worked as a mechanic in the shop. And (...) he worked on the fire truck. He went (to) fires out in the edge of Bishop (...). And then (he) would go up the hill -- oh, I can't remember the names of those places -- north of Bishop, up in the mountains to work on a drag line or a, some kind of a big piece of machinery. He worked on heavy equipment. And, and he went to Haiwee. It's south of Bishop quite a ways, (...) quite a few places that he had to travel to work on a piece of equipment.

RP: He had to have a, a bit of a mechanical background, too?

PF: He did. When he was a young man, he and his brother moved to Detroit. And Dad got a job at Cadillac. Did machining. He was so good at it that Cadillac wanted him to go on up the ladder. But his brother worked at Ford. And so they wanted to share a place together so Dad quit Cadillac and went to Ford. That was the biggest regret that he had of his young life. He had to be with his brother and so that job never, never went as far as Cadillac would have, he thought anyway. Probably true.

RP: Can you share a little bit about your father as, as a daughter? How did you see your dad?

PF: Well, I saw him as a strong person. He only went to the eighth grade but he was educated other ways. I remember stubbing my toe one time and just almost tore the end of my toe off. And he took me into the garage where he was working and he took care of it, he bandaged it and said, "You're gonna be all right." And I was. [Laughs] So he was caring. Not so much so after the war. So, I don't like to remember those years. But he taught me to drive out in the back field behind the house, in the jeep.

RP: What car?

PF: A jeep or a tractor or just about anything that was handy. (...) Homes Street, after we moved from May. We moved to Homes Street in 1940. And Mr. Blee had a horse out in the pasture that was right around, kind of L-shaped acreage around the house. And oh, I wanted to have a horse so bad to put in there with Mr. Blee's horse. Then they built the project back there during the war. It could have been before the war. And it was there during the war and there was a Mexican family that lived back there. And he came and asked my mother -- my dad had already gone to the Navy -- and he came and asked my mother if he could have a vegetable garden, a Victory garden. And she said, "Sure." He says, "I will share all of the fruits and vegetables that I grow there and all you have to do is furnish the water." Which she did, gladly. And he came and he did the hoeing and took care of the whole thing, and just used the water. And then brought us fruits and vegetables. That was what I, my first recollection of a victory garden. And I don't know that they ever had any after the war.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

RP: Tell us a little bit about what, what it was like to grow up in Bishop.

PF: It was a great place to grow up. I never felt unsafe. I walked to school when I was just in kindergarten. And I worked, when I was in high school, I worked at the drugstore and I got off at nine o'clock. I walked home at nine o'-clock at night, never felt unsafe at all. And you grow up with the kids in the schools and there wasn't a lot of crime. I don't remember crime unless it'd be the panty-raids that the guys did coming through the high school windows. [Laughs] Oh, that was funny. So anyway, it was a wonderful place to grow up.

RP: Before you started school, you had a babysitter.

PF: Yes, yes. Lottie Chamberlain. And my brother and I would catch a ride with the milkman on the milk truck, and we made all the stops with him of course until we got to Lottie Chamberlain's. And Lottie Chamberlain's was probably three blocks away toward Main Street. And my mother was on her way to work at the Inyo store. So she was walking and she walked faster than that milk truck went because of all of the stops. So by the time we got to Lottie's, we couldn't tell Mama goodbye anymore. She was too far down the street. And across from Lottie Chamberlain I remember a little old man, little old couple. His name was, oh, I was thinkin' of it the other... Glover, Glover. And, oh, I thought he was the most interesting man. He had all this junk in his yard and I thought it was treasures. I never saw so many neat things.

RP: Do you remember some of the items? What, what...

PF: Oh, one of them was the cage that you put on a light bulb for mechanics. And I thought it was the cage for an animal or something or other. Yeah, I was just so, so little. Oh, I can't remember his name. Glover? Anyway, then they moved. Evidently they got to where they had to be taken care of, couldn't stay in the house by themselves so they moved. And I was so sad. I loved that little old guy.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

RP: You said your mother worked at the Inyo store.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: Tell us a little bit about that, that business.

PF: That was, it was a dry goods, materials and I think she had clothing for women, mostly for women. And I remember the walk out to the restrooms and they were more like outhouses. But it was a wooden walk. And all of the floors in the building were wood. And at one time I remember them sending the money, put it in a tube, and it went up, up to the upstairs to the office, up a tube. And then they had the same thing at the Penney's. (...) Mom's boss was Mrs. Clemmons. And she was, she was so good to Mom. She let Mom work just about any hours that she could get there and was glad to have her help I'm sure. So, that's what I remember about the Inyo store.

RP: Do you, do you recall your mother always working?

PF: Pretty much, yes. Doing something or other. Sales, mostly. And during the war she was, she was with the, oh what do you call the, the, where the soldiers and sailors came?

RP: USO.?

PF: USO, yeah. She worked with the USO while my dad was in the service.

RP: Where was that located?

PF: it was on Main Street (...). Somewhere in there (near) the camera shop, where he used to, he used to take pictures of everybody in Bishop.

RP: Is that Phillip's?

PF: Uh-huh, Phillip's, uh-huh. Somewhere in, in there, one of those little stores. And I remember the five and dime. Oh, you could buy anything at the five and dime. It was so cheap.

RP: Just to go back to, to your mom's involvement with the USO, did she ever share any stories about that with you? Or did you ever have the opportunity to go with her?

PF: No, I was too young. I was too young. (...) I was only about twelve, thirteen. And she left me home, I guess.

RP: You said soldiers and sailors, where would those, those soldiers and sailors come from?

PF: They had a landing strip at the airport where they trained aircraft carrier, landings on aircraft carriers. Land, and take off, land and take off. So, I'm sure they were maybe flyboys. I remember seeing P-38s flying around and I don't remember ever seeing a big, big plane. But a lot of the little like fighter planes that they would land on aircraft carriers. And maybe they were just there on furlough or something. Maybe they were boys that grew up in Bishop. That I really don't know.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

RP: Now you started, you first lived on May Street.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: And then you moved in 1940 to the house on...

PF: Home Street.

RP: ...Home Street.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: And share with us what you know about, about the house on Home Street.

PF: Well, it was built by the Watersons, one of the Watersons in 1897, I guess there was a big scandal about the Watersons, and I don't know whether they had to move or, or just what. But when they did, the city bought the house. And so when, in 1940, before my dad enlisted in the Navy, we had a chance to buy it. Or he did. And then they found out that it had an artesian well underneath it so that deal was off. And so we rented it instead, for sixty years. My mother was there for sixty years. And they always took care of it. The city would come, any problem. They painted it, they painted the outside, and they fixed the roof or replaced the roof. They were very good owners, landowners. And it was a huge lot. So my dad had chickens and a turkey that grew to be forty-six pounds or something like that before they butchered it. And it was so big that they had half of it, they baked, and the other half they had smoked. [Laughs] And I can remember Dad getting these little tiny chicks at the (...) feed store, boxes of little chicks. And then we had laying hens and eggs that we sold, and my brother and I found a chicken wandering one day -- it was a pullet (...) and we named it Wandy. It was a pet chicken. And one day it disappeared and we never knew what happened to it but I think it was that night we had chicken for dinner and I couldn't eat it. [Laughs]

RP: Might have been Wandy.

PF: My mother swore it wasn't Wandy but I kind of wondered. Yeah, so...

RP: Tell me what, what were your first impressions when you moved into that house?

PF: Oh, it was so spooky. I remember one of the first nights there was in a little room that they called the trunk room, and that was where I slept. And I could look out the window at the head of my bed and it was, oh, lightning and thunder. I was petrified. And then later years went to a reunion and one of my classmates that had come to a Halloween party at our house asked me if my mother still lived in that spooky old house. So, I wasn't the only one that thought it was spooky. But, you know, it was, it was just big. And I was raised in a tiny little house. (...) And that big old house was not anything I was used to and there were so many rooms and the floors creaked, and the ceilings were very high. And it was just like you'd see in spooky movies. [Laughs] I got used to it, though. (...) And my brother did, too. However, we slept in the same room later on. We had twin beds (...) and I can remember jumping back and forth on, on the beds. And it went crashing to the ground and Mom and Dad were downstairs. Dad came running up there to see what in the heck had happened. Like the roof had fallen in. [Laughs] Oh dear.

RP: Can you give us a maybe just a brief tour of the house in your mind?

PF: Yes. There was a back porch and Mom and Dad went dump-digging in the old dumps in old ghost towns, especially in Nevada. And all the walls were covered wrought iron stuff. Things like muffin tins and, and I remember the thing they put in a cow's nose to lead it and things like that. And then into the kitchen it was where we had the dining room table (...) the kitchen was kind of rectangular, it was rectangular. Lot of cupboards on one side. And the pass through to the, what was at the time the Watersons lived there I guess it was a dining room. Because it had a swinging door. (The) pass through (was) under some glass cabinets where you could pass the food across to the dining room. And then that became the living room, big living room when my parents moved there. And then to the left before you go into the dining room was the only bathroom in the house. It had a cast iron tub. Then next to that was the bedroom, then at the other end of the living room, you turn and go into the hallway, a hallway that had stairs that went upstairs to the right of that was the big front room, bedroom, which in early days I guess was a parlor, because it had its own door to the (front) porch. And then you go upstairs and at the head of the stairs was my bedroom, later on when I became a teenager. And then down the hall to my brother's big room which was over the living room (...). And then the trunk room that I talked about was the room that was over the bathroom. Then there was a big bedroom over the kitchen.

[Interruption]

PF: And that bedroom I remember the kitchen stove had an insulated pipe about this big around that went up through the ceiling, through that bedroom, and out through the ceiling. It was a vent pipe and it was warm. And there was one of those from the living room where there was a stove at one time, oil stove, and that had a pipe that went up through that room, too. And, and then, oh, and upstairs over the back porch was a sleeping porch. And that's the tour of the eleven rooms. [Laughs]

RP: Thank you so much. You said a sleeping porch. Was, did you ever use it?

PF: Oh yes, yes. It had a screens all around two sides, and doors that came down. Also had a trap door. You could come up the back stairs which were about this wide and if you weren't careful you'd fall. Up the back stairs and then there was this door that came down. And you had to lift that up, lift another door up, and they fit like this and you held 'em open with a hook and eye. And then the doors on all the windows flipped up against the ceiling and they were held with a hook and eye. And there was four I believe on that one side and then there were like five or six on the other side. And they were about this wide. And if you weren't careful you got one and it conked you on your head. [Laughs] But it was so cool. That was the west, west side, southwest corner of the house and it was very cool and another room that was off of the kitchen was called the dark room. And it was where they hung hams I guess, and meats and it was like a insulated, like a refrigerator, ice, like an ice house. And maybe they had ice in there, I don't know, one time. But, that's... huh?

RP: Did you have a basement at all?

PF: Beg your pardon?

RP: Did you have a basement?

PF: No. No basement. They had a cat get under the house one time. Didn't get out. [Laughs]

RP: I was curious, you mentioned this artesian spring...

PF: A well.

RP: It was a well?

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: And had it been capped?

PF: It had, yes, they capped it. The City (of L.A.) did once they found out that it was there.

RP: So when you moved in it was a capped well.

PF: Yes. I'm sure. I'm sure it was because we weren't allowed to buy it then. We had to rent. So, they must have done that before. And I don't remember, I don't even know where it was. I think it's under the porch. (...) And the backyard, they had, I guess the Watersons or whoever had been there before we moved in, had built a fountain, and had a little wading pool, like a little swimming pool. It's still there but it got plugged up with roots or something or other so that it wouldn't drain. So my dad filled it in with sand and we used it as a sandbox, cats used it as a sandbox. And then he (...) put some more dirt on top and he had daylilies in it.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

RP: So you had a, a love affair with horses starting at a pretty young age. Tell us about that.

PF: Yes, I, my friend Irene and I used to go across the street to Butler's Field and get a horse. They had all kinds of pack animals and nice gentle horses and we'd go put a rope around the neck and then snub it around its nose and we'd go hop on. And that's when I got my foot stepped on that time. We'd hop on and we'd go cantering off in the field and this one time the horse just stopped. [Laughs] And all over the head we went. But oh my goodness, my friend and I loved to go over there. Even if it was just to pet them. That, oh, I loved horses from the time I was a little tiny thing. My mother made me some jodhpurs out of my dad's, or grandpa's suit, and we went back east to visit my grandparents. And I wanted to ride the horses. "Oh, you can't ride the horses." And I said, "Well why not? I've got jodhpurs." [Laughs] I was about five I guess, or six.

RP: Do you remember the first time you rode a horse?

PF: Oh, yes. Yeah, we were at my dad's uncle's in Oregon, on his big wheat ranch. And he had a horse named Pal that was a pinto, a paint. And, brown and white, and they saddled that horse up and my brother and I got to ride. I got to ride in the saddle first and my brother behind. And then somewhere along the ride I decided, well, I'll let my brother have his turn in the saddle. I got off and he got in the saddle and took off. [Laughs] And left me standing there and I was... oh, there were snakes and things all over in that field. I don't remember if he came back. I just remember standing there and him riding off. Dirty trick.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

RP: You had just one sibling, your brother?

PF: Yes.

RP: And what was his name?

PF: Myrlin, or, we called him Myrlin. His name is Frank Myrlin. And everybody who grew up with him and knows him from then calls him Myrlin. Now, when he went into the service he had to take his first name. So everybody that knows him from then on knows him as Frank.

RP: At the time I believe he's several years younger than you?

PF: He's eighteen months younger.

RP: And at that time there was no hospital in Bishop.

PF: No.

RP: So where were babies like Frank delivered?

PF: He was born at home. Oh, and he, Nancy Boon was the nurse or what did, what did we decide that we'll call... midwife. She was the midwife that came to help my mother. And my grandmother was there. My grandmother came out from Kansas and she stayed with my mother and helped take care of me. And so he was born right there at 324 May Street.

RP: One other story that you shared with me about the house is that it actually played a part in a movie.

PF: Oh, yeah. It was like a thirty-minute movie, I believe, Mule Days. No, Death Valley Days was the name of it. And they had a mule that they, in this particular movie, they brought it into our house. They had to put plywood down on the floor so they could bring that mule into the house and then for some part of the movie it had to come back out. And so they brought it, or it came out by itself, I think. And it was very well-mannered mule. It came out the front door and down the steps. And I believe I was thinking that it was Ronald Reagan that was the emcee at that time. I could be wrong, but it seems like he was. (...) Ken Curtis was in that movie with the mule. And the mule may have been his. (...)

RP: And where did you go to school in Bishop?

PF: I went to Bishop Elementary School, there on Line Street. And at one time I had a classroom that was over the firehouse. I can't remember if that was sixth grade or... anyway, I remember the siren when they had a fire and it was a volunteer fire department so it had to have the siren to get everybody to know there was a fire. (...) I graduated from the eighth grade there and then I went to Bishop Union High School.

RP: You mentioned the fire department.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: You said that your father worked as a volunteer fireman?

PF: No, no, he was on the fire truck for the city of L.A. And, and why he was just the city of L.A. fire truck, maybe it was just for their property? Because that maybe wasn't considered Bishop fire department, their property. (...)

RP: There was a, a memorable fire that you shared with me when we talked.

PF: Yes, it was out off of Line Street somewhere. And there was an old, whether there was a shack there or not I don't know. (But) anyway, there was a bum that maybe was living in the shack to get out of the weather, anyway, and it caught fire. And by the time my mother went out there I guess maybe to take my dad some food because it seemed to be a pretty lengthy fire, hard to put out. There was this old man ringed in fire. And he put his hand out for her to help him and the ring of fire was too wide and she couldn't help him. And so he ended up in the Redwood Hospital, which was just down the street from us on Home Street. And it was called Redwood Hospital because at one time it was Redwood. And I remember you could hear him screaming. They put him in a tub with cool water or something to try to ease the pain, and he passed away. That (was) one of the saddest parts of my dad's job I think.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

RP: Did you have much of an outdoor life with your father and mother?

PF: Yeah, we went, we went camping. Went hunting with my dad later, when I was older. And my brother got a buck. [Chimes in background] That goes again, that's a quarter-hour. And it was a nice one, too, and he, he never went hunting again because it bothered him that he killed something so beautiful. And fishing, we tried it, but we didn't care for it much. 'Course, we didn't catch anything and that might have been why. And not much that way. Not with my, my parents. Well, they took us to the snow and I didn't like the snow. It was too cold, a crybaby. But, swimming up at the gorge. And I remember learning to swim in Bishop Creek in ice water.

RP: What was that like?

PF: Oh...

RP: Cold?

PF: Yes. And it was, it was flowing very fast. We could walk there. It was just across the pasture and we were at Bishop Creek. And it was flowing fast enough that it kind of carried you along and so that you only, just had to move your arms and you were swimming. [Laughs] And it was very cold. But we had a swimming hole that was kind of sandy in the bottom. And I had a friend who visited. He had a cousin who lived in Bishop. And he came swimming with us and he had a false tooth. They called it a flipper. He lost that thing in the sand. And he said, "Oh, my mother is going to kill me. That cost forty dollars." [Laughs] And we were all swimming around in the bottom trying to find that thing and all we did was stir up so much dirt. There was no way we were gonna find that little thing. And that's, well and then the horseback riding. Yeah. I would rent a horse. I did babysitting, so that I could pay to rent a horse. (...) I can't remember the name of the people now. (...) My other friend, my best friend, Betty, her brother had a horse that she and I used to ride. So, I got my horseback riding when I was oh, teenage, in high school. And that paint horse with my brother that time.

RP: You have a favorite place you liked to ride?

PF: Well, my favorite place to ride was when we moved to Yerington. That was recent. (...) I remember Betty and I rode out to the Beacon. The Beacon was not there anymore. It was some little cabins and we rode out there one time. She was on her brother's horse and I had a rented horse. That was one of my favorite rides. And then another time we went on a trail ride and I can't remember where it was, where we went. So, no, just to be able to ride was my favorite thing. Didn't care where.

RP: Tell us about the Beacon.

PF: Oh, yeah. The Beacon was the hotspot. Yeah, all kinds of things went on there. Dancing and good food. That was the, my first steak dinner with my first date with John, big date with him, was at the Beacon. And I had a filet mignon. And I think they had real music not jukebox. It could have been a jukebox later but I believe they had a band. And I would go out there and we'd dance and New Year's. (...) He and I went there for New Year's Eve. And we were married then, though. And Art Chelang owned it at that time, when we were going out there, and when I remember it. (...) But it disappeared after I was gone. So...

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

RP: Let's just go back a little ways, to your, I think you were probably about what, twelve or thirteen years old, you mentioned that you had, on trips down to Los Angeles, that you would stop at a place called Manzanar?

PF: Yes.

RP: What do you remember about that?

PF: I remember on the way home stopping and buying apples. And that they had been raised by the Japanese in the internment camp.

[Interruption]

RP: But during the time the camp was operating?

PF: (I don't really remember. I do) remember, oh, they were so good. I don't know what kind of apples they were. Delicious apples I think. And you bite into one and you had to wipe your chin, drooling, dribbling all down. They were so juicy. And then my husband and I made some drives around through there, oh, quite a few years ago. And we couldn't find anything like they have now. Everything is so well-marked and the beautiful things that the Japanese built there, it's wonderful. But anyway, getting back to when I was young, I went down there with a group of girls and I can't remember whether it was my mother's Sunday school class or the Girl Scouts. But it was a group of girls and we went to visit one particular girl. And how they figured out who we were going to visit, I don't know. But I remember she was so sweet. And her family, they were so kind and it was such a wonderful visit. And I felt so, oh, I felt so sorry, so sorry for them.

RP: Do you have a particular --

PF: But I didn't put them there, so, you know...

RP: You were in the barrack, her barrack room?

PF: Yes. I was in and it was just a room, just a room and I remember a blanket or a wall, some kind of a wall. And the whole family was in this one tiny area that was not much bigger than a cabin, eight by eight? Ten by ten? It was very small probably about the size of my dining room. So, it was pretty much wall to wall beds for the whole family. I don't remember if she had siblings. She may have been the only... anyway, she was the only one that we visited with. And she was American-born. She was not Japanese at all to my estimation. I didn't see it anyway.

RP: Did you ask her any questions or did...

PF: Oh, I'm sure we did, but I can't remember 'em. (...) I think I pretty much blocked that out. It was, it was so sad. (...) I just remember going there and seeing her and liking her very much. And I think I wrote to her. But I can't even remember for sure if I did that. I wanted to, so I hope I did.

RP: What was it that triggered that emotion, that sadness?

PF: Well, the fact that they, that the government had put them there. And they weren't our enemy. I didn't see them as the enemy. And they, we were told it was for our own protection. Well, what were they going to do to us? I couldn't see it myself. But then I didn't know anything about politics or government and how they worked and so on and so forth. And it was later that I found out that they, they took their property and everything. So...

RP: Did you visit any other parts of the camp while you were there?

PF: No, not that I can remember. No, not even the officer's quarters. I don't even remember seeing that at that time. We must have gone through that gate, the guard gate. But I don't remember that part of it at all.

RP: It was a pretty short visit?

PF: Yes, yes. I'm sorry it wasn't longer. I wish we could have gone, like you said, there were some that came and they, they had dinner with them and... but for some reason or other we were there just a very short time, 'couple hours maybe. And, never went back until much later and they were all gone. So, it was not a happy memory for me.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

RP: You also, your father, when the camp was closing down and they were dismantling the camp, you had another, another Manzanar experience through the --

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: -- through your father. Tell us about that.

PF: Well, I was a newlywed. As a matter of fact, I was a new mother. I had a baby son and my dad went down. My ex-husband and I lived at Rovana in one of their apartments. And we didn't have any furniture so my dad went down to Manzanar with his little four-by-eight trailer and bought a kitchen table and four chairs, a bed... a bed, a dresser, and a high boy -- a chest of drawers -- and that chair. [Laughs] That chair, and I have recovered it since. And he bought two more same chair, type of chair, for them and two chest of drawers for them, and I think that was about all he could get in that little trailer. He hauled it all. He got it for forty dollars. Hauled it all back in that little trailer.

RP: He built that trailer.

PF: Yes, he built the trailer in 1934 on a Model A axle. And it had wooden sides that you could take off, stake side. And front and back, the whole thing came off so it was like a flatbed trailer my son has it now. One of my, one of our sons. Says it's still goin'.

[Interruption]

RP: This is tape two of a continuing interview with Phyllis Fechner. And Phyllis, we were just talking about some of your Manzanar connections. Specifically your father going down and purchasing a lot of furniture for you. Kind of setting you up in housekeeping in Rovana.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: Do you have any idea at all where, where the furniture came from in the camp?

PF: Yes, it was from the officers quarters. And it all had numbers on it. and they're... oh, (Dad also bought) two twin beds and two night stands. I have one of the night stands and the twin beds are gone. And they had the numbers on there. 3206 or something like that was on one of them. And my mother had them when she was in the convalescent hospital in Yerington. And when she moved back to Bishop from there I donated that bed, her twin bed and the chest of drawers and the night stand to one of the girls that helped her so much, and it was for her son when I went back and asked her about it she said that she got it and that her son was wondering what those numbers were for. And I said, "Well, they were from the officers' quarters at the internment camp at Manzanar, and they were their numbers." And I don't know whether each building had a number or what, but every piece had a number on it. I don't remember one on that chair. I think I refinished it anyway. But the chest of drawers and her bed, (...) on the foot of the bed was the number. It was interesting.

RP: How was the quality of the furniture, do you recall?

PF: It was birdseye maple, or it's maple. It's very good. Good quality, tongue and groove. It was put together, it was nice furniture for officers. It wasn't for the people in Quonset, in the huts or whatever you call 'em. It wasn't for the prisoners. And it was very good quality. (...)

RP: Do you, do you know of anybody else other than your father who went down to Manzanar and purchased buildings or furniture or any other items that would have come from the camp?

PF: You know, I'm sure there was, there were people from Bishop. But no, I don't know of any. I wouldn't know who they were. I'm sure there were. Because if he heard about it then there must have been others that did.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

RP: We're gonna just step back a little bit. And talk a little about the wartime in Owens Valley that you experienced. Let's start a conversation by having you share with us your memories of December 7, 1941.

PF: Well, I remember FDR saying that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor and then the only other words I remember are: "This date will live in infamy." (...) I can't even remember where I was. I was at, in school when he died. (...) And then during the war I sold savings stamps and savings bonds. When you got a book full of stamps you had a bond or something like that. And the bonds were, I believe like ten dollars or up. And I sold a lot, probably because my mother helped me. Well, and then school and my mother was P.T.A. president and she was involved in a lot of things with school. (...) And that started when I was in eighth grade.

RP: You started selling bonds?

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: And was it just for a short period of time or you did that for the entire duration of the war?

PF: Oh, you know, I don't remember. Probably the duration and I remember sending, what do you call 'em, care packages to the service men. Like, toothpaste and, oh and at that time cigarettes, and candy bars -- my husband can remember getting candy bars and cocoa and I'll let him tell you about that. And razors and shaving cream and soap, things like that. And we'd get a big box and it would be maybe a class project. And then it was mailed to certain place. And it was all secret, we didn't know where anybody was. We didn't even know where my dad was. And I remember getting, what do they call them, v-mails. V-mail. And they were little tiny envelope like this and they were photos of the actual letter. And I have quite a few of those to me and some to my mother from my dad. But, no, it was FPO so we had no idea where he was until he came home. So we had no idea where those packages were going. They were just going overseas.

RP: Did you dad, when did you say he went in to the military?

PF: He was in the Navy Seabees, the construction battalion. And he was building airfields, airstrips in the islands in the Pacific. He was in Bougainville and the Solomons and the Mariannas, anyway, in the Pacific. And he was gone for three years. Came home in '45.

RP: Do you remember the day that the war ended? V-J Day?

PF: Yeah, yeah. Everybody was whoopin' and hollerin' and horns honking and, oh yeah. Yeah. And I can't remember where I was at that time either. My friend in Bakersfield says she remembers exactly where she was. I guess I was non compos mentis or something. But, yeah, I remember it, I just don't remember where I was.

RP: Just to go back to your selling of war bonds, was there any type of a contest or competition that involved?

PF: Yes. And I sold the most if I remember, I got a certificate. I got a certificate for selling the most or the biggest or something or other. Anyway, it was a certificate and it was very nice.

RP: Do you still have it?

PF: Oh, probably not. If I did, (...) I don't know where it is. And it may be gone in all of my moving. So...

RP: You shared a great story about the gentleman, the neighbor who came over and wanted to set up a victory garden.

PF: Yes, yeah, that Mexican man.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

RP: Yes. Did you, were you involved like many others in collecting materials for the war effort?

PF: Oh, we collected glass. Actually, we picked up bottles and sold them so that we could go to the movies or something. And we collected papers. We had paper drives. And, oh, you couldn't get, metals (...) we didn't have aluminum cans. They were tin or somethin' but glass and paper drives. I remember those.

RP: What can you share with us about the, the rationing that took place during the wartime and did it have any impact on you?

PF: Yeah. My mother was a very good cook so we didn't do without anything. But I remember the sugar stamps. And (Mom) drove us around to pick up the bottles although if she had had a problem with the tire, wouldn't have been able to get more because rubber was rationed. And what else? We had chickens. And she got the chickens and pulled their heads off and we had chicken to eat, and eggs. Five times.

KP: Not yet. It's a quarter of.

PF: [Referring to chiming clock] Oh, quarter, oh, okay. That's the three-quarter hour. Okay. I just started winding that thing again the other day. [Laughs] If I had known this was gonna happen I wouldn't have. So anyway, we had, (...) was it meat rations? I remember butter. Oh, I liked butter so much. And they came out with oleo. (And) it was a white pillow like thing full of like lard. And you pinched this pill and it was orange and then you had to keep squeezing that thing until it was all yellow. And then you thought it was butter. And I can't remember other than the sugar and the rubber that were rationed that really impacted us. And that man grew the vegetables so we didn't worry about that either. So we were pretty well off compared to some others. Just the three of us, my mom, my brother, and me.

RP: Do you recall any blackouts or any drills that took place in school or...

PF: No, I really don't. I guess we were too far from the shores and that sort of thing. And I don't remember air raid drills, like crawling under a desk, I don't remember any of that. Not, I'm not saying we didn't have 'em but I don't remember 'em.

RP: Do you remember any rallies in school, patriotic events or things to support the...

PF: Rallies, oh, must have had rallies. They had pep rallies but they were all for the game, you know, the football or something like that. No, I don't remember anything like that. And parades were patriotic parades. My brother and I were raised to be very patriotic. My dad was. And he had five brothers and they all went in to the First World War. And so he was very patriotic. That's why he just had to go into the Second. And we, (John and I), had four sons and they're all the same way, very patriotic. And (John) too. Fly the flag with the light on the flag, all correct.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

RP: To return to your school experiences, you were going to Bishop High School. Did you, had you formed any, a sense of any aspirations about what you wanted to do with the rest of your life? Or were you just having a good time?

PF: I just I thought at one time I wanted to be a nurse. You know, every little girl seems to want to be a nurse. But as I got older, not really. I wanted to get married and I did. I got married at seventeen. And I had my first son at nineteen and that was my life from then on. Well, I did, too. I wanted to finish high school. And so I went back, I went to adult school and I got my high school diploma in '63. (...) I had my senior year to make up. It took me two years to do it, to get my diploma. (...) And I was the speaker of the class, yeah. So, kind of a big deal. [Laughs] I had a good bunch of teachers. They were, they were nice. And it was kind of hard though. I had four kids and a husband. (...) But I hung in there.

RP: How did you meet John?

PF: When?

RP: How and when?

PF: How. Oh we met (when) I was working at the Jack's Waffle Shop, and he came in, one day off of the truck I guess. And he comes in, he takes his jacket off and he goes like that to hang it on a hook and there're no hooks there. [Laughs] And I thought, "Oh what a character this guy is." Oh boy. He won me over, yeah, made me laugh. I was kind of having a tough time there at Jack's Waffle Shop. Well I told you I started on opening day of deer season. And, oh my goodness, I look out there toward the door and there's just a sea of red hats. Never saw so many red hats at one time in one place. And, my first day (...) I had worked as a waitress before but it was in a little like a home cafe, home type cafe. And this was a counter and breakfast. And I hadn't ever served breakfast before. And oh my goodness. That was a, just a horrendous time. Then to have him come in and hang his coat on an imaginary hook made my day. And that was in 1950, and it was very meager pay, like seventy-five cents an hour at that time. That was, whoa. And I had a babysitter for my son full time because I was on every shift. I was on the night shift and I was on the graveyard shift and I was on the day shift. And I never knew when I was going to be home. And I was staying with Mom and Dad in the big house. I had the bedroom upstairs over the kitchen. So, that's how I met him, and where.

RP: Then, in 1951 you left Bishop?

PF: Uh-huh. We got married. We ran off to Las Vegas, Mom and Dad came over there. It was the twenty-seventh of November so right around Thanksgiving. Mom had a whole bunch of turkey and stuff for us to eat. And they stood up with us, and Mike, my son. They, the three of them stood up with us. [Laughs] And then we never got back to Bishop, except to visit. Wanted to retire there and that just wasn't feasible. So we wound up in Yerington, Nevada. Loved it, loved it. Had my horses finally. We had six at one time. And then when he got ill, we sold our place. We were there almost twelve years and we sold our place and moved back here where we have sons to help us out.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

RP: How long did your father work for the city of L.A.?

PF: Let's see. He worked, I think he retired in '68. So like thirty-eight years. It could have been forty (...). And (after) he retired Mom and Dad went dump digging. They went to Tonopah and Goldfield and Goldhit and Goldhill and Aurora and some places in Nebraska. And, oh boy, the best thing that you could find would be an old privy. And they had a long, or Dad had a long probe that he would push it down through the earth and if it scratched glass or metal then they started digging. And they have been to, oh, out of Keeler, (and we) in the old gold (tailings)... wherever there were gold mines that's where you found the old bottles and old, lots of old rusty stuff. And they enjoyed their life after he retired more than any time before, I think. That was a wonderful time for them. Dad passed away in (...) '87. And they had quit going maybe seven years before. (...)

RP: Your parents and you moved up into the Owens Valley just shortly after the city of Los Angeles had acquired most of the valley for a water supply.

PF: Yes, I think so.

RP: It was a very contentious period.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: And of course the Watersons figured in that...

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: ...that scenario. Can you share with us kind of some of the attitudes and feelings that you grew up with?

PF: Toward the DWP?

RP: Towards the DWP.

PF: Oh yeah, people, especially people that came up from L.A. They didn't understand... well, and a lot of the Bishop people that moved up there that were latecomers didn't understand what the people in Bishop gave up when they sold to the DWP. And I guess they were in, they were in dire straits. And it's why they sold and the DWP was there to buy. And so why not? It was a buyer's, seller's market for them. So people that came along later, they were kind of disgusted with those people that had sold those houses, all those houses to the DWP and they, "We'd like to have that house," and they couldn't buy it. You know, until the DWP finally decided and I guess it was in 1940 that they sold. They sold a lot of them. Just not the one we were in. [Laughs] Or not the one we wanted. Dad tried to buy the one on Line Street that's now a doctor's office or somethin'. It's a big white house. Andersons bought it. They got there before Dad did, but that's the one he wanted.

[Interruption]

RP: Do you recall, you mentioned that DWP did sell houses later on.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: Do you, there were other folks that I've talked to who share stories about remember seeing fires on the east side of the valley of houses that were being burned because the DWP didn't want the tax burden. Do you recall that at all?

PF: No, I don't recall anything like that back then. I've heard about those since, the later ones. There was one out toward Laws, I think, years ago that had that same thing happen. And, they thought it was probably arson but I don't know that they could ever prove it, or ever did.

RP: So for, to people who have the perception that the city of Los Angeles raped the Owens Valley, your feeling is that there was no rape at all?

PF: Well, no, I don't think so. I think they took advantage, but only because people were willing. But the thing that really bothered a lot of the people that were there for a long time was that they shut the water off in the Owens River and it went to L.A. And that, I don't know whether it was water that was for crops or just what the deal was. But it also dried up Keeler, that big salt lake down there.

RP: Owens Lake.

PF: All dried up (and then) shut the water off into Mono Lake and diverted it. (...) I guess there was such a big hew and cry that they finally opened that back up (into) Mono. It was drying up to where (...) it was so saline that (...) nothin' could live in it. You couldn't put a boat in it, it'd eat the bottom of the boat out. And so that was, I think that was the main thing that people had against the DWP and who, I guess whoever worked for them maybe. But my mom and dad had a lot of friends.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

RP: I was gonna ask you, was there a community amongst DWP employees, like socializing together or...

PF: Well, company picnics and that sort of thing. But not too much. Otherwise, not like hobknobbing with the boss or anything like that. No, I don't remember that. But I went to school with their children and it was all, it was a very nice community. Just, I loved growing up there. I really loved Bishop. And John did, too. (...) But it's changed a lot. Those little stores like Jack Black's that was on the corner of Main and across on the other corner was the Inyo-Mono Bank. And post office was right behind the bank, and I even remember the box number. The... let's see, 573 was the box number and the combination was B-L. (...) Dad says, "Remember, bright light." [Laughs] So anyway, all those, they're all gone and it's so changed now. Schats is gone, way down on the other end of town and big, big business. And all those other fast food places that we never heard of a thing like that, you know, when I was growing up. If you didn't get it at home you didn't get it. Or, in a restaurant, they had restaurants but... oh, and the diner. The diner, it was between the shoe store and what was the name of that diner?

RP: Was it the Golden State Diner?

PF: No, no, (Marie's Diner). The Golden State was on the corner. I think that was later. (...) There was a big open space after they moved the diner out. And it was a real diner, like a diner car. That was fun. Oh, I loved to go in there. Greasy spoon. [Laughs]

RP: Was that the best meal in town?

PF: Well, for kids it was. Yeah, we liked that. And, and Jack's, Jack's Waffle Shop. That was a good place to go. We'd go there after a date and that's been there for as long as I can remember. And...

RP: Do you recall any large-scale community social activities?

PF: Yeah, picnics out at the park, Pulpit Park. And I don't remember what the picnic was for, just community picnic I guess. I don't even remember what we had to eat. I just remember the park and we played games, like ball, baseball and... (...) Dad was a Mason and Mom was an Eastern Star, and went to their functions. They had dances and initiation, Eastern Star initiation. And then they would have a dance and a dinner, and, or a buffet. And, oh, and Christmas tree lot, I mean, Christmas tree with Santa Claus (...) on the corner of Line Street and Main. It's an empty lot now. And they had a big Christmas tree there and Santa Claus and I got my first little set of dishes, doll dishes there. And I remember seeing Santa Claus. I just knew he was real, Santa Claus. He had the blue eyes and the white hair and the white beard and the rosy cheeks. He was the Santa Claus. And I only remember that one year. (...) And they were blue willow dishes. (...) And, and then they moved the Christmas tree to where it is now at the park, what was that park now? Bishop Park. (...) That information building wasn't there then. And, we used to wade in Bishop Creek as it came across under the, under the highway, there under the bridge. And it was, oh, not too deep. We'd go there during lunchtime and wade in the water. Cool our feet off in the summertime. [Laughs]

RP: Got lots of great memories.

PF: Yeah.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

RP: One other group inhabited the area, or the original inhabitants, the Owens Valley, Paiute, Shoshone...

PF: Yeah, Paiutes. Shoshones, uh-huh.

RP: Did you have relationships with, with them in school or...

PF: They were kind of, they kind of stayed pretty much, I think they kind of stayed by themselves. [Interruption] And I remember they were beautiful, beautiful girls. They did not look Paiute or Shoshone, they looked like light-skinned, or dark-skinned white people. They were, oh, they were beautiful girls. [Interruption] And I believe their name was Summers and I don't know that they were there a long time. And I remember another one that was there in grammar school briefly. And maybe her dad worked for the DWP and they kind of came and went, I don't know but her name was Frances Juarte.

RP: Juarte.

PF: Juarte. And I thought she was Spanish. She was another one with light skin and I liked her very much. But she wasn't there very long. Maybe a year in grammar school.

RP: Can you characterize the racial attitudes between the two groups if you can? The Native Americans towards whites, whites towards Native Americans? Was there, was there deep animosity or was there...

PF: I didn't feel any and if any of my classmates did I didn't know it. But the Indians were... well, they were different. And I can't explain how I feel they were different. (...) I don't want to say anymore 'cause I really don't know what I'm talking about. [Laughs]

RP: Right. Kirk, do you have any additional questions or... did you have any type of connection with Jill Kinmont at all?

PF: Jill Kinmont. No, she was younger than I. First I heard of her was the movie. And they made that movie there in Bishop. I didn't know her but my brother (might). (...) She might have been in my brother's age. (...)

RP: Just another question or two here. You shared your poignant story about visiting the girl at Manzanar.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: How sad that made you.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: Again, I know you were very young, but do you recall the attitudes of the community in Bishop towards the Manzanar camp?

PF: Uh-uh.

RP: Not at all.

PF: No. But must have been a number of them that felt as I did. Because that's why we made trips down there to visit with them because it felt like it was wrong.

RP: And so there were other groups, possibly, that also went down there as well?

PF: Well, I believe the Girl Scouts, I understand the Girl Scouts went down there.

RP: From Bishop?

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: Okay.

PF: And maybe often. Maybe several Girl Scout troops. And I just can't remember if I was with my Sunday school class or not.

[Interruption]

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

RP: Phyllis, are there any other stories that we haven't touched on that you'd like to share with us?

PF: I remember, you know that, there's hieroglyphs, hieroglyphics is it? North Bishop? And I've never seen them. Never been there. And I remember going out to (...) Chalk Bluffs. That there was a pond out there and we ice skated. I skated on the side of my skates, but needless to say I didn't do very well out there. And there was something, something else that I remembered that was north of Bishop. I remember thinking what a wonderful place to have a, that house out on the (hill), just before you go up Sherwin grade. It's up on that hill and a rock house and I thought it was so neat. And I heard the woman always wanted a house on a hill. And so her husband built it for her and I guess it couldn't get water. It was so far down to water that, that didn't work out too well.

RP: I wanted to ask you, we talked about your dad. But I wanted to kind of wrap up the story of, of the house with your mother. She was there 'til 1997.

PR: Uh-huh. And, then she moved into assisted living center?

PF: Uh-huh, on Pine Street.

RP: And you mentioned that there were, the city of Bishop was interested in the house.

PF: Yes.

RP: What did they want?

PF: Well, the city, the museum wanted to buy it. And I thought you know, well, city of L.A. wouldn't sell it because of that well. And I've thought many times, why wouldn't they just rent it to them for the museum? And so that it would be kept up. It's just falling down around the paint, inside the paint. And it's such nice big rooms and so many stores. Oh, I know one story I wanted to tell you about that Halloween party. My mother loved to give parties. And while Dad was in the service she gave the Halloween party for the high school classes, all of them. And I remember that there was one game. It was a card and a piece (...) of bubblegum. And you chewed the bubblegum and then on this card was a name of a, like a cat. And you had to take that bubblegum out and make the cat out of that bubblegum. And it was so much fun. And she had black crepe paper cats and orange and black crepe paper streamers here and there. And, and this where you did the cat, animal things with the gum was up those creepy stairs. And she kept it not too brightly lit so that it was really... and that's where that classmate said, "That spooky old house."

[Interruption]

RP: When you say the museum, you're referring to the Laws Museum?

PF: Uh-huh. Yes.

RP: At any point did they actually want to move the house off the lot?

PF: Yes, they wanted to move it but I understand that because there's electric wires in the front and then they had those trees, cork elms, a row of cork elms in the front which are now gone. (So) I guess they couldn't figure how to move it without costing too much money. And maybe the city wouldn't let them have it anyway. Which would have been nice if the city, I mean, the city of L.A. if they had donated it. Cap, keep the well capped and just donate the house. Keep the property even. Put something on the back of the lot or something. But, city, the museum couldn't get it. Which was a shame. They have moved some other buildings out there. I was talking to somebody who had worked on the restoration of some of them and it's wonderful what they do.

RP: Yeah, just to be able to save the building.

PF: Uh-huh.

RP: Whatever it would take to do that. Well, if you don't have any other additional stories you'd like to share.

PF: I don't think of anything else.

RP: But I know you will tonight around midnight.

PF: Well, yes, I will. [Laughs]

RP: But we want to thank you, National Park Service wants to thank you and so do Kirk and I for a great interview.

PF: Well, thank you very much for asking me and inviting me into your little interview.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.