<Begin Segment 6>

RP: Dennis, there were, there were some issues that came up at the Children's Village revolving around your last name, Tojo.

DB: Oh.

RP: Can you share with us how, what, how difficult, if it got difficult, how difficult was that for you? How did that experience evolve? I mean, I've heard and read a number of accounts of, that you took a great deal of ribbing sort of taunting for that. How was it?

DB: Well, it's interesting that you ask that question because I'm probably gonna touch on that this evening here at our conference. And I'm probably going to explain it as being a product of prejudism. Now we haven't spent much time on the prejudisms which were at or during the time of our, our internment. And internment isn't a correct word, incarceration is. it kind of goes like you're different because you see any of the pictures of that era of time when I am in it, I'm heads and shoulders taller than anybody else. So, so that was the first thing. Hey, you're gonna look at me and you're different. Oh, now how else are you different? Oh, you have the name Tojo. No... I wasn't knowledgeable enough to know who Tojo was, but I knew that it was a name that was involved with the war in Japan and so forth. But the use of the name Tojo was a pejorative term as it affected me. And it wasn't used except in anger with, with others. So, it was not uncommon for me, instead of being referred to by my name, being to referred to as, "Hey Tojo, get over here." Or, "Tojo" do this. Instead of, "Dennis." Now, I will say that the, the Children's Village where we had these mixed layers of, of people, probably occurred more often. The other thing that I would say is that generally, generally when you have people together and the people have bonded, which in a way I had bonded with other members of... and when somebody in that group gets attacked from outside, the group comes and wraps their arms around them and says, "He's part of us. Don't do this." That was reserved for other people. But not for me. So, that was a distinction that, that I recall. Now, back in those days I couldn't rationalize that. But I believe that was the case that they were not going, they did not come to my need and say, "We'll help you." They just let, let the tauntings continue. Not a pleasant time.

RP: Did you, you mentioned that you went out of camp several times with the consent of the, the guy in the tower. Did you, did you, were you curious about the rest of camp? Did you feel restricted to the Children's Village? Did you walk around and visit other friends that you might have had from school?

DB: We, we had no internal controls that I recall. Now, there might have been a evening curfew but my age didn't affect me. Remember we had up to eighteen years old. So their rules were obviously different than ours. That's another sad issue for, for America. Is the requirement that once you reach the age of eighteen you were, well, you weren't expected but you were removed from your home and didn't necessarily have a home to go to. It was a virtue of age. When you reach age eighteen you were on your way. Yeah. And, that's pretty sad situation.

RP: You explained, you know, the different groups of kids in the village. What about the, the environment around the village? Did that affect you at all? Large lawn areas with quite a bit of landscaping, places to run, places to play ball.

DB: Well obviously it appears that it was a subject of discussion because I recall... the, I recall some -- not confrontations but some jealousies in that our facility was better than the rest of the facilities. And it was. The government in building the orphanage did build it more carefully and it had some environmental things that were good, like the toilets were inside the main building and we weren't, we didn't have to walk across the yard to get to the latrines. It was interesting that last evening our group that's gonna present the program this evening, we were having a little discussion, and one of the discussions was about the fact that it was reported that Children's Village had a specialist chef who came from the Los Angeles city area and was in charge of the, the kitchen, and that it was reported that he had all this excellent food. So I said, "You know," -- this is my quote -- "You know, we heard that we had a special cook. But my memory was that our chief meal was white rice with brown gravy. And you could have as much of that as you wanted. I never felt that it was very special." End of quote. Yeah. I think that's one of those things that happened 'cause of time.

RP: Do you recall any feelings from people in the rest of the camp towards orphans? Was there a stigma with being an orphan at Manzanar?

DB: I didn't have the opportunity to observe any of that. And I think it was because we had developed our little groupings and so we would go to there where we were being accepted by whoever it was. And we stayed away from those people that we thought didn't like us. But there was a stigma about being an orphan. And it... would you call it a negative stigma? I mean, the thought was we got better facilities, were treated better, and, and that was the stigma that we had and I don't know if that's a plus stigma or a minus stigma. But that's, that's what I remember.

RP: That's an interesting point that you raised. Because Celeste Teodor, you know, who's in your group tonight, mentioned that she, she actually felt somewhat liberated by the fact that she didn't have parents in the camp, a mother or father, and that she had this network of friends and this close tight community called the Children's Village. You didn't have to worry about some of the issues that parents had to deal with at that time. You know, where, what are we gonna do after we leave camp? How do I answer the "loyalty questionnaire?" All these, these anxieties that parents had to take on that might be transferred to their children, children who had families. In her, in her estimation had more difficult time. Her empathy goes out to those, those kids.

DB: Yeah. I think that's a good point. And I hope she raises it.

RP: Knowing Celeste, she will.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.