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RP: So you, you were, you were placed first in the Children's Society Home in Los Angeles, was it?

DB: Yes it was. I remember back to my age I'm going to guess was like three years. I mean I think my recollections goes back to three years, time span. One of the strangest things to remember is my visit at Children's Home Society and what, what seemingly was important at the time, or as important now. We were right next door to a church. And it was a very musical church. And one of the joys which we in our dormitory room, there were about three or four of us, we would always wait with anticipation to put our ear, open up our windows and listen to the church music from next door. And I've always thought that was curious because, like I said, I think I'm around three years old. And to be impacted by the church music next door is a little interesting.

RP: What was the makeup of the, of the kids at this orphanage? Were they predominately Caucasian or... what do you recall about that?

DB: They were all Caucasian, except this interloper who thought he was Caucasian but his name was Tojo and he was half Japanese and half Caucasian. And, to my knowledge there were no other racial fill-in-the-blank for me.

RP: Racial ethnicities with [inaudible.]

DB: Yeah, that sounds good.

RP: So were you, were you picked on or subjected to any ridicule based on that, that you can recall at that age?

DB: Well, we'll have to figure out which age we're talking about. Clearly, there was no, no, none of that occurred at Children's Homes Society because of my age factor. And, I guess because the significance of being Japanese American, I mean, that wasn't, we didn't know that there was an ethnicity. I mean, we were just little kids, grew up too fast probably. But no, not there. Now when we get a little later in life then we'll see that beginning to crop up.

RP: Where... you share that great story about the church music. Do you have any other vivid memories of your time at the Children's Home Society?

DB: The most vivid part that I recall was our Saturday evening. There was a large grass area and we were allowed to go out and be kids. It was structured so that, as I recall, there was a couple a slides and so forth. And we were able to do those kinds of things. But there was something missing and my guess that was missing was a cohesiveness. While we were all there at the same time, we weren't always there. And so... there's another interesting part that is gonna kind of fit in here. After my birth, my mother placed me into the orphanage, Children's Home Society. And when I found my Tojo side of the family, one of the things which... their children remember because remember there's some age difference between myself, my uncle is the youngest child and he and I are seven years different. Well, seven years difference is not exactly a time span which would cause people to remember things too well. And so when I was looking for my mother and I was very close to finding her, we discovered that my uncle did not recall any relationships that I had with the family. But as a matter of fact, an older sister, an older aunt, when my uncle asked him if he, she knew of the possibility of a child out of wedlock, what could she remember? And she said, "Well, every weekend somebody would go to the orphanage, pick up Dennis, and bring him home with us, with them. And he would spend the afternoon and maybe dinner but at least the afternoon every weekend. You know, that's a pretty significant thing. When, when I think about it is how many broken families, I mean basically we had a broken family. How many broken families do you see that break up but still have this kind of relationship? And it was only because of that relationship that I believe I was able to find both sides of my family. If that relationship hadn't existed I would have been without my knowledge of the family. The Tojos wanted to have twelve children. But I think, I think they stopped having children at ten. Somewhere in there.

RP: Did you, when you did discover your mom and her side of the family again, reconnected with them, did you ever pose the question to her why she gave, gave you up to an orphanage? Did she have an answer?

DB: Was her answer satisfactory?

RP: What was her answer?

DB: Absolutely not. She says, "We don't discuss those things." And if you knew my mother Anna, when she said no, you might as well accept it. Wait for another day, another time, and hope that you'll get another little piece. She was very private and would only let out that that she wanted to let out. And since her interest was exactly opposite my interest, well, we, we didn't always have a very long conversation on intimate family things.

RP: But it was so precious to have that connection again, whatever it was and however limited it was.

DB: That's correct.

RP: That was what you wanted to preserve...

DB: Yes.

RP: ... and not push the envelope.

DB: That's right. And if I had known that fifteen years later I would be sitting here making a recording of it I would have pressed a little harder.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.