<Begin Segment 11>

RP: You eventually... Dennis what, in regards to, you know, your "Japaneseness"...

DB: Japanese what?

RP: Your "Japaneseness."

DB: Oh, all right. Yes.

RP: That part of you, sometimes the, the common reaction is to shun that because it's causing you problems. Did you eventually, were you able to accept that part of you? And when did that occur, if it did completely?

DB: Did I ever do a interview with you before now? Oh.

RP: Never.

DB: Then I can't blame it on you. Well, this is the most fascinating, well, one of the most fascinating things in my life. And it, it started out very negatively. And... it's been a long time germinating and happening. And it only, it was hastened by the 60 Minutes program and things that I have done since that time. Let me say that from the time that I had the 60 Minutes experience, I would shun away from any discussion about my ethnicity because I felt like I had to choose between the Japanese side of me and the Caucasian side of me. And it was easier to shun away than it was to develop some kind of skills to deal with it. So one day, I don't know how, who, but 60 Minutes called and said... well, no, not 60 Minutes. The Fullerton program said that 60 Minutes was interested in doing a film and wondered if, if they could look at your interview. Of course I said yes. And I really didn't know what this all meant but sounded like I might like it. And so I said yes and then I went through the interview procedure and CBS, yeah, it is CBS, CBS did all the work and they, they never told us what was happening. And so I came down to Manzanar to the pilgrimage and they had told me that they wanted me to be televised in that setting. Would I be willing to do it? Well, frankly I had a hard time deciding whether I wanted them to do it. Because as I think I told you, I had to make a distinction between my Japanese side and my American side. And up to this point the American side always won. And my friends told me, "Well, why don't you come on down and just try it and, and see?" So Takato Matsuno talked me into it. And it went fairly well. Or at least I was there on time and they took my picture and so forth. And then the next thing I knew is they wanted additional interviews. Bottom line was, or is, that 60 Minutes opened the gates of my interest and participation in the Japanese side of my family. So much so that I do presentations and I enjoy doing it, a I hope to do more, and I hope others will do more. Because, I don't know about you, but I'm getting a little older and we better figure out some things before it's too late.

RP: Before, before it's all over.

DB: Yeah. So I personally thank CBS for helping me make that distinction, which was your question. How did it come about?

RP: Right. Kind of bringing those two sides together. Were there, from that program, were there any repercussions from your, from the Tojo family? Aside from, 'cause this is after you met your mom and kind of developed, began developing a relationship with that side of the family. What, if any reaction did they have to, to the program and...

DB: Well, the, the policy of CBS at that time was not to broadcast or indicate what was happening with the project. I mean, I learned to call people up there and get answers once in a while, but, but basically I said, "When are you gonna play it? Or are you gonna play it?" And they explained to me how the selection process worked and you would just have to wait until it's your magical turn. That could be tomorrow, it could be whenever. But only one person's going to know. So I think several months go by and I call up my friend who is on the team, the filming team, and the director. And I say to her, "You know, I'd like to make a suggestion." They said, "Okay." I said, "Since World War II every..." what day is that, that celebrates... Memorial, not Memorial... the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

RP: December 7th?

DB: How could I forget? "Since the bombing of Pearl Harbor, every December the 7th, as long as you can remember, has been Tora! Tora! Tora!, and the dropping of the bomb." And I said, "I don't know anything about what the film we were working on looks like, but I'd like to suggest on December the 7th we do something else, something perhaps more meaningful than Tora! Tora! Tora!" And my friend said, "Okay, I'll pass the word on but I don't know." So it's getting closer to December the 7th, and we're not hearing any word. And I don't think we saw any word. Except that it was announced that this program would be on that given night. So it was. Now, my relatives lived, as I told you, in Cincinnati. Which means that they're further out east so they're in the eastern time zone. Which means we get to have a report from them three hours sooner. Now, my mother lived in St. Louis. So she would get it during the same time zone but... and it moved on. Well, my first call was from my uncle who said, "You did a very nice job. It's a very nice production." Oh, I said, "Oh, and I'm in it?" "Yes, you're in it." The next telephone was from my auntie in Alabama, "Dennis, you did an excellent job. Oh, I'm so proud of you." And finally we got to see it. We already knew that we were in it, but we got to see it. And I was so excited.

And, now the sad part. Somewhere in the credits, now I haven't been able to find it, but I'm sure my mother found it or saw it, but someone in the, somewhere in this production gives her name as Anna Tojo and gives also her maiden name, I mean, her married name. She hadn't been married to him for twenty-five years. But she decided that that was her cross to carry and she refused to have any kind of conversation with me for two years. Under the, maybe it wasn't guise, but under the anger that I had given CBS the information about her marriage. Which I tried to explain to her that they had more information on me that I knew existed. But, I didn't get a chance to work with her or talk to her because we live here and they live in St. Louis. And whenever I would pick up the telephone and she'd hear my voice, she'd hang up. So I had to develop some kind of a program to see if we could overcome that. It took me two years. And I started out with a telephone call every week. And I did that. Then I took it upon myself to make several visits to Cincinnati, I mean, to St. Louis, where all my goal was, was to meet her face to face and try and begin the, the process of the healing and resurrection. I finally accomplished that so that when she passed she at least was talking to me. And the final breakthrough is when my nephew got married in St. Louis and we went out to the wedding and there were no placemats as to where we were supposed to sit. So I watched my mother. When she sat down I went over and sat beside her. And the next two hours she never got bombarded by so many questions. And there were all these questions which if she didn't answer, would make her, would give a negative response to her failure to answer. In other words, the questions were designed so that she had to say something even if it was just three words. She had to say something or face the rest of the family. And that started us on the trail of being able to talk again. And at her death, she'd at least no longer slam the phone down.

RP: Dennis, what was, did she have a camp experience during the war?

DB: Yes. She lived in part of California where they sent all the internees to Heart Mountain, which I think is Wyoming. And, that's where she went. Now, she had two sisters. Oh, she had three, maybe four. She had several sisters who lived in Chicago. And because they were in Chicago they were outside, outside of the zone. So, they, that effectively broke the family up into two different situations. So, part of her family wasn't affected and the other part was. So, she was the oldest of the children so she had to go, not had to go, but her location to where she lived sent her to Heart Mountain with my youngest aunt who also went, my one uncle I think... no, he didn't go to Tule Lake. But we have a camp in Tule Lake as you're aware of.

RP: Were you able to kind of share the camp experiences with each other over time? Your mother and...

DB: With my mother? No, no. She was very private and... no. Our conversations were limited to, "Well, is it gonna rain today?" So forth. I mean, you have to take it step by step.

RP: Slowly, yeah.

DB: And we were still taking baby steps. But we were stepping.

RP: You were moving forward.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.