<Begin Segment 3>

RP: Now, where did that rebelliousness begin?

CT: Oh, I think it began when they, in Manzanar when they, when they used to make us eat everything off our plate and I wouldn't do it, and I didn't like, if I didn't like food they'd make us sit there 'til midnight at the dining hall, and then at midnight they'd let us go. They told me it was midnight; I had no idea, but I know it was a long time because there were several of us that wouldn't, wouldn't eat what we didn't like.

RP: And what were some of those foods you didn't like?

CT: Well, the one particular one was that shaved daikon, you know what that is? Ooh, horrible. I get the creeps. And all my friends would say, "Oh, we love it, Celeste." I said, "Well, you take it whenever it comes." It's a garnishment that comes with sashimi and they, I said, "You can have it, but I won't touch it." And that was the only thing I didn't like.

RP: And so you just kind of waited them out?

CT: Just waited. Waited and waited and waited until they told us we could leave, but I won the battle. They did not.

RP: Important. Important.

CT: That's why they say that I fight. You said in the paper that they said I was a fighter, well I was.

RP: Questioned authority. So other than Ruth, do you have any recollections of all of Lillian or Harry Matsumoto at the Shonien?

CT: Not at all. I know that they, they had, they were in charge of the physical end of it, the making the dormitories functionable and making them sensible, that we had indoor plumbing and we didn't have to go a block to go to the bathroom or anything like that. And I think our mess hall was, was in the confines of the Village. That's all I remember. And they had beautiful lawn. I remember that, and pear tree 'cause we used to pick the pears and wrap 'em up in newspaper because they said that's the way that ripen, and I didn't know it, but we wrapped 'em up in newspaper and got to eat 'em when they were ripe. And I just remember a lot of good times there. I remember the swat line, too. The swat line is when the -- your peers did this -- you'd have to go through swat line. They'd hit you if you misbehaved. The line, I guess they gave a list, said, "Okay, the following are to go through the swat line," and at least you're, you had to go swat line while your peers whacked you on the behind.

RP: So did, you got swatted a few times?

CT: Oh, yeah.

RP: So why, what would you get swatted for?

CT: I don't, I have no idea. [Laughs] I don't know what I did wrong. I said, "What did I do wrong? I didn't do anything wrong."

RP: Would these be kids your age or older kids?

CT: A little older, but boy, when it was their turn, I was able to swat them, too. Because after all, I was from six to eight in camp.

RP: So that's how discipline was enforced in the Children's Village.

CT: Yeah, that's what they say, but I wasn't in the swat line too often. I was, would escape it. But what I liked about the Children's Village was the freedom. I'm finding some stories where they said that you couldn't leave the confines of the Village, but I don't find that true because I used to wander all over that camp. They told me later it was one square mile. I said, "But I'm seven and eight years old." You're older you can do, people they don't give seven and eight and nine years old kids any credit for having any brains. So, so we used to, I used to walk all over that place. I used to visit my girlfriends in school's homes where a lot of, I hear, a lot of the orphans say that -- not a lot, a few of the orphans -- says they were never allowed in the homes of their friends.

RP: You were welcomed?

CT: I was welcome. And then if I missed dinner at the orphan, at the Village, I don't think there was a head count or anything because my girlfriend would take me with her girlfriends and we would all eat in their dining room. They never took a head count, 'cause I got away with that so many times. I was too far to run and in time for the, for the dinner or, yeah, it's usually dinner. And I used to visit my friends at their mess halls and they never ate with their families. They always ate with their girlfriends. They didn't have family gatherings anymore.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.