<Begin Segment 16>

RP: Can you share with us the story about the, the confrontation with the Kibei?

IK: That was kind of funny. It was a surprise, too, 'cause I never thought of defending myself or reach a gang, but... the camp supplied ping pong tables of all things. Anyway, we went into an empty barrack and set up a ping pong table, and Kei and I started playing. And we're both tennis players, which made it nice and we played it like tennis. Both of us would fly back up the table and hit, hitting like tennis. And this bunch came walkin' in and walked right in front of me and the table, and right in the middle of a rally, and they says, "We wanna play." I says, "Well, wait 'til we finish." We, that's sportsmanship. You don't disturb the middle of a play, which he walked right straight in. I said that ain't the thing to do, and so I was ready for something because you just don't do that. So anyway, he got into my face and started making noise and, like my father said, "Don't hit anybody first." So I had to stand there and wait for him to punch, and I just... "Hey, I'm gonna get hit first," so luckily I had boxing lessons before. So he swung and I blocked him and I let go, and I hit him across the, I caught him just right. That hurt all clean down to my spine. So he hit the other side of the wall, and then everybody jumped. And so I grabbed one guy and I pulled him down with me, and they kicked the hell out of me. They were, they were trying to get to me, which they didn't. I didn't think they did, or maybe the excitement made me immune. So suddenly -- oh, just as it started Kei took off. He just, I just saw him run out the door, and I just remembered that. I didn't have much to do with him thereafter. But anyway, evidently he caught a bunch of guys, Niseis, and by now the Kibeis all ran to their apartment and I ran to their window says, "Why don't you and I come out and have a fair fight?" And of course he says, said something in Japanese that I didn't understand. And I said, "Why don't two of you come on, come on out?" And I had four. I, finally I says, "Okay already, so and so guys, come on out." And so they came out and they set around me, and by now I guess Kei brought the Niseis out and they circled the Kibeis, so now I says okay, I got a chance. So now they're talkin' about we fight to kill and I was not smiling. I was ready to... 'cause I had protection. I knew if they jumped these other guys are gonna help, so I'm ready to go and then suddenly somebody grabs each of my arms and lift me up, walked me away, and it was the nurses that carried me out. Isn't that funny? What could I do here. Here I have my legs off the ground and they're all crumbling over there, and I'm very embarrassed.

RP: Carried off by nurses.

IK: Yes, they just, they... well obviously, or evidently it was a respect for women, but it was... maybe, probably... well, it was, who knows whether I would've survived or not, or whether the Nisei would've helped or... that's a big question mark. I'll never know. But they, the, I can only say that the women must've saved me 'cause they didn't touch us. After that the, I, one of the lifeguards I was with, he says, "Let's go get 'em." And I figured no, that wouldn't be nice. We shouldn't do that.

RP: But later on you, you got some, some measure of revenge.

IK: Yeah, I had my chance when I became... I ran that big, huge cement mixer with... I would shovel the sand and stuff in the, the thing and start running. And they showed up as a, as a crew, and I didn't pay any attention to, I ignored them until they said, "Let's start lining up," and I filled the barrels full. And if you've ever pushed any cement, that's a chunk of money. I mean, it's so heavy you, takes a real man to wheel it. And these guys just were not big enough to do this, but I would fill the, each barrel up just to brimming and then walk a step and spill the, just dump the cement. They couldn't handle it, so I just kept doing that. There was more cement right at our feet than... it would the whole form. But they kept spilling it until finally the break time, I said, "Break," so you know... I sit down and up comes the foreman of the Kibei with a Coke he bought from the, the little shop we had, there was, that they could buy stuff. So they bought me a Coke and then I figured that was it. They... peace, the peace sign. So I guess... yeah, I guess they figured okay, everything's over. I don't know why they were coming up to me. I owed something to them more than this. I mean, I wanted some meat from them, but I had to accept this trophy. So after that I loaded it halfway full and they made the forms, so we, we dumped a lot of cement right there. There were about ten, ten in the group and every one of 'em dumped it within ten feet, so if you could just imagine that pool around our feet.

RP: What, what was it, this friction between the Kibeis and Niseis?

IK: Well the Kibeis were born here and sent back to Japan to, their low schooling, so they spoke more Japanese now just to show off, I think. And they kind, well, they obviously grouped with the, with each other because they all spoke the same language. And they were, they were the only ones that really complaining about the camp. The Isseis did not complain. They just felt sorry for the rest of us, but the Kibeis were still Japanese, at that time. I guess they were just plain old mad. 'Cause after that I and the Kibeis got along alright.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.