Densho Digital Archive
Manzanar National Historic Site Collection
Title: Isao Kikuchi
Narrator: Isao Kikuchi
Interviewer: Richard Potashin
Location: Los Angeles, California
Date: May 15, 2009
Densho ID: denshovh-kisao-01-0014

<Begin Segment 14>

RP: This is tape two of a continuing interview with Isao Kikuchi. Isao, we were just talking about your early days at Manzanar. Particularly, can you tell us a little bit more about the African American presence there? There was more than just this one soldier there.

IK: Well, what we saw, or I saw was the guys that we, they weren't always the same guy that we walked by and talked with. They were all black, and then when we... they would hold a, somethin' like an... they, they'd get together off duty, maybe twenty yards away. They were all black and they, they all spoke the heavy slang. So I didn't see any white guys there at that time. Later, yes.

RP: There was one particular situation you encountered with a group of blacks.

IK: Oh, you're referring to the, the shooting.

RP: Yeah, the quick draw.

IK: We were walking along one night and we heard loud noises like a football game, and that was right there by their, their... whatever you call their break time. And just big noise and suddenly we heard something about counting down, and we looked over there. They were back to back, and just like an old cowboy show, they walked apart, turned and exploded. One shot. And, boy, that was a big noise in nothing but quiet. And we decided to move out. These guys are crazy. Anybody that fooled with real arms and called for a showdown, hey, they need help. So we decided never to walk with the guys again, and that's the last we saw of the black guys. I believe they must've been shipped out the next few days, within the next few days. I don't think they ever walked the lines anymore. I don't remember.

KP: So at that time the perimeter of the camp was simply the guards walking?

IK: Right, there were no, no barbed wire or anything. They were the, they were the fences.

KP: And what, what kind of conversations did you have with these guys? What did you talk about?

IK: Oh, it... we were trying to just talk to see what they were like, 'cause they had more to say than we did. And one black guy says, "Man, my feet hurt 'cause this is the first time I done wear shoes. And it's, everything, new clothes, new everything. They feed us regular." He was happy as a lark, so he was having a good time. He had four hours on and four hours off and that's the routine. And so I don't... that was the only outstanding occasion or time talkin' with the guys 'cause that was marked by the shooting. That's why I remember that one so vividly, 'cause that was... well, it was the shooting was the highlight of that speech, conversation.

KP: And there was a big... it was at night and they had a big bonfire burning in the center.

IK: They had their time fires there. It wasn't anything special. The army would not have unless it was firing. And there was no war on as far as they were concerned.

RP: So they were back to back and they just paced off a certain distance and then one man turned around and fired?

IK: Well, there was sort of a referee saying "start," but the, I don't know, there's probably at least twenty guys in the group. I would assume it was a beer bust, and they were all sitting down squatting, and then the two guys got up and walked apart, and bang. And that was actually pretty good shooting, 'cause those are army .45s and they're not very accurate, but there it happened.

RP: And you saw the one man fall?

IK: Yes. It was all just, happened in a second.

RP: And then you took off after that?

IK: Yes, very quietly. 'Cause it's... well, it's the first time I've seen anybody killed. I mean, just with no reason. I guess you get all emotional and things happen, but that was pretty damn dumb. Or at least one man thought so.

KP: So what, the guards walking, do -- I know that later you went to 442nd, were familiar with weapons -- did you know what kind of weapons they were carrying while they were on guard duty?

IK: It was either 0.3s or Gurans. Not in, in the towers there were machines, but the other guys couldn't have had anything else but 0.3s or Gurans.

KP: When did the towers go up? Do you remember that?

IK: I don't know. Suddenly they were there. I've, I had less, lost tracking time because no, one day didn't mean a thing from the other. It's either sunny or not, or it's blowing or not. And that's all.

KP: What, what kind of machine guns in the towers?

IK: No idea, didn't see, get close enough, but I would imagine it was a, a light, the light machine gun.

RP: Thirty caliber?

IK: Yes, they're all thirty caliber, except the .45 pistol. This was before the carbines and such.

RP: How about Thompson submachine guns?

IK: I didn't see any of those. And those were, those were special guns for the old timers to, that was a sort of a, one favorite gun because it was a different gun. They were very lousy for firing but there was a statue, a sign of special...

RP: Statute?

IK: That's the word.

RP: Right, in the hierarchy of weaponry...

IK: Yes. They were lousy guns.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2009 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.