Densho Digital Archive - Roy Murakami Interview (denshovh-mroy

<Begin Segment 27>

RP: Roy, we were, we were discussing the dojo and some of the exhibitions and things that took place there at the Manzanar dojo. One of the more controversial experiences was a visit by Jack Sergil and some of his students --

RM: Uh-huh.

RP: -- up to Manzanar.

RM: That was his, his side. The police.

RP: Can you share with us the story and what was the, quote, "scandal" revolving around Jack's...

RM: Oh, they want, they want the women to come up there, go up there and do practice with the teachers and stuff, teachers and subjects, other subjects.

RP: Japanese males?

RM: Japanese, yeah, so that's where I think most of it was about.

RP: Uh-huh. So he, he brought, he brought some of, some of...

RM: Two or three girls, I mean, women.

RP: Uh-huh. Do you remember that exhibition?

RM: A little bit. I remember a girl, lady... there was one look like, that actress that crashed in the mountains over in Vegas?

RP: Oh, Carol Lombard?

RM: Yeah. Looked like her. Blond hair and everything.

KP: So when did the, or who and when did women start getting involved in judo?

RM: Our, none. There's, at that time they were doing it.

RP: They got involved during the war?

RM: L.A.

RP: Did, did Jack, Sergeant Jack Sergil, did he visit the dojo more than once?

RM: Yeah, I think it was twice. What they used to do is pool their gasoline and come up. That might have been a question, too, why they did that, but...

RP: Now did you hear about this scandal from, in the newspapers while you were still at Manzanar or did Jack tell you about it? How did you find out about it?

RM: I read it and I think from Jack heard some of it, too. But I read about it somewhere.

RP: Yeah, and the Manzanar Free Press had a story or two about it.

RM: Yeah, it could be.

RP: Uh-huh. And I guess it was the Hearst paper in Los Angeles that made it quite a big...

RM: They always say a lotta...

RP: Yeah, they were, they were known for blowing Japanese Americans out of the water. So and eventually he had to --

RM: Resign.

RP: -- resign.

RM: And then he got a job acting, became an actor.

RP: Was he, was he your favorite actor?

RM: Oh no, no. I knew too many at that time.

RP: So, yeah he switched careers rather successfully and he took his judo skills and one of his first students was a famous actor.

RM: He was... I think they were doing a picture, Blood Red Sun. It was propaganda picture about Japan and the police, they had Japanese police, James Cagney was the actor.

RP: And Jack, Jack Sergil was his teacher for a while?

RM: Yeah, but he also appears in the picture. His picture, he's the sergeant or the officer that beats up Cagney and then Cagney I guess it was, killed him or something like that later on.

RP: Oh, so Jack's one of the Japanese police.

RM: Yeah, you see him. He's big in that.

RP: Uh-huh.

KP: A six foot two Japanese policeman.

RM: [Laughs] They got 'em now but I don't know about then.

RP: And, and Jack continued with an acting career.

RM: Yeah.

RP: He was in a number of movies and television series.

RM: Yeah, I think he got into a few pictures. I don't know what else he did. He was a, he did a lot of things in his lifetime, I guess. Did a lot of sports. Savat, the French foot fighting.

RP: Martial art?

RM: Yeah. It's a martial art but it's... they don't have it anymore. I don't think nobody does that anymore.

KP: Right, yeah, it's just, it's fighting with feet.

RM: Yeah.

KP: It's all they can use.

RP: And so Jack did that, too?

RM: Yeah, he was doing that one. And then he was an undertaker. What else was he? I don't remember now what else. He's got a nice wife, he had a nice wife. Took care of him real good.

RP: He always had a very strong relationship with the Japanese, Americans of Japanese culture.

RM: Uh-huh. That's why a lot of people stored things with him.

RP: He could be trusted.

RM: Uh-huh.

RP: So did you, did you have a relationship with him after camp, too?

RM: Oh yeah, he just come out. We used to come in the dojo. And I replaced it a couple times in Burbank. He had, he was gone, so he wanted somebody to just teach, to a practice with some of the students there.

RP: So which, he was running the Burbank dojo at that time, or...

RM: He was... YMCA? I think it was. But he taught there. I went there a couple, two, two weeks I think I went over there, I'm not sure. He had to do something, shooting or something. Some kind of films. So I went over there, so I replaced him for a while.

RP: So did you ever get involved in any judo training for movies at all?

RM: [Shakes head]

RP: No? You missed the boat, huh?