Densho Digital Archive
Manzanar National Historic Site Collection
Title: Henry Nakano Interview
Narrator: Henry Nakano
Interviewer: Richard Potashin
Location: West Los Angeles, California
Date: December 5, 2008
Densho ID: denshovh-nhenry-01

<Begin Segment 1>

RP: This is an oral history for the Manzanar National Historic Site. This afternoon we're talking with Henry Nakano. And our interview is taking place at the West Los Angeles United Methodist Church on 1914 Purdue Avenue in Los Angeles, California. The date of our interview is Friday, December 5, 2008. The interviewer is Richard Potashin, our videographer is Kirk Peterson. And we'll be discussing Mr. Nakano's experiences as an internee at the Manzanar War Relocation Center and also his experiences after camp at UCLA, and our interview will be archived in the site library. Henry, can I go ahead and conduct our interview?

HN: Sure, go right ahead.

RP: Thank you for joining us today and sharing your story. Tell me where you were born and what year?

HN: I was born in Los Angeles on the fifth of, eleventh of May, I'm sorry, 1927, to Umazo Nakano and Akiko Nakano. Akiko's maiden name was Nishizaki. And both born in Japan, came to America in 1906, my dad did anyway, Mother in 1919.

RP: And then you... what, from area in Japan were they?

HN: What's that again?

RP: What area did they come from?

HN: Oh, Okayama, Japan, which is right next door to Hiroshima.

RP: Have you been back to, to your...

HN: I've never been back to Okayama but I've been to Japan at least twelve times in my lifetime. First time I went back was 1970. And that was the year of the World's Fair in Osaka. And that's when I went back.

RP: What was your given name at birth, Henry?

HN: My given name is Henry Nakano, no Japanese name like most Japanese parents did. My dad wrote kanjis for Hen-Ri. And so that's how I went by. My kanji were Japanese characters but no middle name.

RP: That's, that's different.

HN: My brothers and sisters all had middle names.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

RP: Let's talk about your siblings. Can you give us them in order of their birth?

HN: My oldest brother was Tsuyoshi George Nakano, and he's five years older than me.

RP: Can you spell that, Tsuyoshi for us?

HN: T-S-U-Y-O-S-H-I.

RP: Okay.

HN: Tsu-yo-shi. In Japanese "Tsu" is T-S-U.

RP: Tsu. Okay, and then who's next?

HN: Fumi Nakano. My older sister, she was two years older than me. And then my youngest sister was Hideko, H-I-D-E-K-O.

RP: Hideko.


RP: And you were the youngest? I'm sorry, you were the...

HN: I was the third one.

RP: Third one, okay. And, of your siblings, how many are still alive besides you?

HN: All of 'em are gone, my mother, father, my brothers and sisters are all gone. I'm the only one left.

RP: Did any of your father's and mother's family also come to the United States?

HN: No. Nobody else from my mother's and father's families. They're all in Japan. They all passed away in Japan.

RP: So your --

HN: There isn't one living anymore in Japan.

RP: Your father and your mother were the only people from their families to come to this country?

HN: That's correct, yeah.

RP: Okay.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

RP: Can you tell us something about your father's background in Japan? What type of family did he come from and...

HN: Well, I think my father's family came from an independent business type of family in the city of Okayama. And my mother's background is she comes from a samurai family and lived in the country. And my dad came to America in 1906, and he went to work for Briningstool Paint Company as a manager mixing the formulas on the floor to make paint. And he held that job 'til 1928.

RP: And this company was located in Los Angeles?

HN: In Los Angeles, yes. Called Briningstool Paint Company which was then sold to General Paint Company. And, that today is, was bought out by somebody else and I forget who it is, but...

RP: You mentioned earlier, Standard Brands?

HN: I think Standard Brands bought General Paint out.

RP: Yeah, okay.

HN: So my dad then retired from the paint company and bought a store in east L.A. and he ran a grocery store for ten years. Then he decided... my uncle all this time, his brother came to America. I forgot to tell you that.

RP: What was his brother's name?

HN: Tsuneshiro.

RP: Oh.

HN: T-S-U-N-E-S-H-I-R-O. And he worked on a farm all his life, here in the States. Worked at different truck farmers. There's always work 'cause they all had farms. The Japanese American Isseis, they had farms most of 'em. And so he talked my dad into opening, I mean, starting a farm in north Hollywood. And so that's when we went to north Hollywood with the whole family and he started a truck farming business for two years before the war broke out. And that's where we ended up going to Manzanar.

RP: Tell us about your dad physically and personality-wise.

HN: My dad was a pretty quiet man, didn't say much, hard worker. He wasn't the disciplinarian, my mother was. And so we all, you know, really loved our dad. And when we went to camp, it was hard on him. You know, he didn't think he had to go. He had to sell everything, his farm, equipment, horses, cars. I don't know how much he got but he probably didn't get very much. It was a distress sale and then we all got carted off onto... we got on train in L.A. It took us right to Manzanar.

RP: That's right. You said you just boarded it...

HN: Yeah, with two suitcases each. That's all they allowed.

RP: Unlike other people who got together as a large group and were all...

HN: Well, yeah, they... most of the people that I know got together at assembly centers. Like in Santa Anita, or up north it was Tanforan Racetrack. And then from there they were sent to whatever camp designation for them to go to. They got split up. But the people in, in north Hollywood and San Fernando Valley and San Fernando and Van Nuys and those areas, all the farmers, were sent to Manzanar, looks like.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

RP: You said that your mother came from a different background, a samurai?

HN: Yeah. My mother's family was a samurai family and she came to America in 1919 to, as a "picture bride." But she knew my dad from before the war, though, from a long time ago, I mean, when they were growing up.

RP: Growing up as kids?

HN: As kids they must have met each other somehow.

RP: Did your, did your father or mother ever talk to you about their early years in this country, their experiences?

HN: Not really. 'Cause my... in 1920... what was it, five years... '22? My oldest brother was born. So my mother was pretty much involved. 1919 to '22, that gives it three years. She didn't do much. She, she helped at the store later when he opened it up in '28. But until then she, she was busy having kids and taking care of us, I guess.

RP: You said she was kind of the disciplinarian of...

HN: Yes. She kind of ran the household. [Laughs] I remember that very clearly.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

RP: Do you have any other early memories of your growing up years in, in Los Angeles?

HN: Well, my mother made us go to Japanese school during, on the weekends, on Saturdays. So every Saturday was spent going to Japanese school to learn Japanese. And then during the week we went to kendo classes at the Japanese school in east L.A., where the teachers were Mr. Shimo and I forget the other teacher's name. But... and they lived only a block away from us so he used to come by, pick me up, take me to the kendo classes, me and my brother. So we took kendo when we were young.

RP: What did --

HN: That's bamboo sword fighting.

RP: What... did you like that? What...

HN: Oh yes, very rewarding.

RP: Competitive but also...

HN: And competitive.

RP: ...character building.

HN: Yeah, character building, right.

RP: Uh-huh. But even with all, with, even with the coverings and stuff...

HN: It still hurts when it hits you on the arms. You, they're supposed to hit you on the body under your arms. But if you didn't have your arms up it ended up hitting you on the upper arm and it hurt. Then they hit you in the side of the head. You got a metal mask in the front but they always, if you're smaller, ends up hitting you in the back of the head. So you have just a cloth, padded cloth covering on the side of your head and that kinda hurt, too.

RP: And you, you went, went there every day after school?

HN: No, it was Thursday or Friday night. I forget. And then we were in the Boy Scouts, so we had to go to Boy Scouts once a week, once a month. So that was growing up in east L.A.

RP: Did you go out on hikes or outings with the Boy Scouts?

HN: Well, the Japanese school, during the summer, took us to Brighton Beach in San Pedro, every summer. We got to go, every weekend we got to go to the beach.

RP: Every weekend?

HN: Yeah, the Japanese school used to take us during the summer.

RP: What do you remember about that?

HN: It was a fun time. Get to go with all the kids and get to go in the water at the beach. Brighton Beach was on San Pedro Island, you know. On the Terminal Island.

RP: On Terminal Island.

HN: Yeah. And that's where actually all the Japanese went, congregated, at that beach. And a lot of the... I don't know if you know what kenjinkai is. Kenjinkais are different groups, Japanese groups that had clubs in town. And we were inthe Okayama kenjinkai, picnics and picnics and beach parties and things like that. I remember that when I was a kid, yeah.

RP: Where were those held?

HN: In Legion Park, Griffith Park, and then Brighton Beach.

RP: Were there a fair number of people from Okayama?

HN: Yes, quite a few. Quite a few from Okayama.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

RP: So you kind of had a built in, you know, group of friends and...

HN: Group of friends, yes.

RP: Network of support.

HN: My dad or my mother did have a group of network of friends. But they also, in east L.A. was a pretty big Japanese American community. 'Cause that's where all the immigrants congregated when they came to southern California.

RP: That's usually the case.

HN: Yeah, it's usually the case in any big town. New York city has what, all of 'em. Puerto Ricans, then Irish...

RP: Russian Jews.

HN: All Russians. They all went to one area in New York, so I guess that's the way they come and then they split out from there. But, that's the same way it was here, too, in southern California.

RP: That community was very diverse. Many people speak about Russians, Hispanics, Japanese Americans.

HN: Yeah.

RP: Did you, uh, did you have friends that represented all those different groups? Or did you hang around with one...

HN: Yeah, well, I had Jewish friends and Russian friends, yes, Caucasian friends. Went to First Street School, grammar school. And then went to Hollenbeck Junior High School in east L.A. And I never got to Roosevelt High School 'cause I was too young. My brother and older sister went to Roosevelt High School.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

RP: What was your attitude towards Japanese language school?

HN: Well it, it was something that was forced upon us so we had to learn it. My attitude was, why did we have to go to school, you know, six days a week? Everybody else only went to school five days. But as I grew up and older I was glad my mother made me do it, 'cause I'm fluent in speaking Japanese, not reading or writing though.

RP: Right. And later on, you know, you found yourself involved with the MIS, too.

HN: Yes.

RP: So... what, which one of your siblings did you most connect with or feel closest to?

HN: Actually, my younger sister 'cause she and I were kinda... you know how older brothers and sisters are, they kinda leave you alone. They'll have nothing to do with you. So, me and my younger sister got along well. But she passed away at sixty years old. So it's quite some time ago.

RP: What memories come, come up for you about your mother?

HN: Well, memories about my mother was, my mother was a giving person. She was a giver not a receiver, and I remember her as always helping other people and other families, and trying. And she'd go to church and do the same thing. And, in fact, the one thing I remember about Christmas, which is coming up, is that we used to get Christmas presents from our friends and since my mother didn't have enough money, we used to take our presents, re-wrap 'em, and give 'em to the kids of our friends. So, that's what I still remember to this day that she did every year.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

RP: You mentioned she attended church. What church?

HN: Konkokyo church. It's still there in east L.A.

RP: And is that a Buddhist church?

HN: No, it's a Shinto church.

RP: Oh, it's a Shinto church. There weren't too many of those around.

HN: What's that?

RP: There weren't too many Shinto churches around.

HN: No, that was the only one. And it was right there in east L.A., First and Evergreen. It's still there.

RP: The original church?

HN: Yes and it's still goin'.

RP: It's still a Shinto church?

HN: Uh-huh.

RP: How does Shinto differ from Buddhism? Do you, are you familiar with...

HN: I don't know. I had to go to both. My dad was Buddhist and my mother was Shinto. So I went to both churches.

RP: Oh, on the same Sunday or did you alternate?

HN: Well, I forget what I did. I must have alternated, can't go to same church same day. But...

RP: So, so one week you were Shinto and the next week you were Buddhist.

HN: Yeah. That's right. It was interesting growing up.

RP: Yeah. You, you had a --

HN: The only difference in the churches is the Shinto religion, they believe in the divine being, not God per se, but a Japanese divine being. And that's the religion of the emperor of Japan, you know. So he's the, kinda like the physical god of the church. So when they commit suicides or do things like that, they all talked about Tennoheika banzai and then they cut themselves open. But that's kind of a sad story. I don't know why anybody would want to kill themselves.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

RP: So as a kid growing up, you had a few hobbies?

HN: Well, my major hobby was with my brother. We used to build model airplanes and we used to fly 'em.

RP: Were these the...

HN: Motor, gasoline driven.

RP: Oh, you did gasoline powered.

HN: Yeah, gasoline powered model airplanes.

RP: What types of planes, what kind of models?

HN: Oh, different kinds. Either the German Fokker triplane or the German Fokker biplanes and the American... which one did they have? I remember the SPAD, the British SPAD. I'm trying to think of the American plane.

KP: The Jenning or something like that...

HN: I don't remember the American.

KP: You didn't see too much action with those. These were balsa wood and paper?

HN: Yeah, Uh-huh.

KP: Lacquered paper and...

HN: Afterwards though we build B-51s, the, following war, you know. But when we were kids we built only the Germans and the English planes. American planes weren't very well --

RP: Developed yet.

HN: -- developed at that point.

RP: Where did you fly your planes?

HN: Ohm we used to go to the playgrounds and down to the schools in the summer times in the, in the fields, and fly 'em.

KP: Were they free flight planes or line control?

HN: Both. But mostly free flights. My brother didn't believe in lines. He believed more in free flights. So sometimes they'd fly a couple of miles away. We had to go chase 'em. [Laughs]

RP: [Laughs] So you did this with your brother George?

HN: Yeah.

RP: And you were also into stamp collecting, too.

HN: Yeah, we were stamp collectors, my brother and I were both stamp collectors. We did that. And also money collectors. We'd collect coins, bills, and I still have some of those today. But I've been giving 'em away to my grandchildren. 'Cause I can't take 'em with me so I gave 'em, gave away all my collections. I started a new quarter collection that are these new quarters. It just ended this year, you know. I had a whole book of 'em with, with commemorative stamps during the year with a story on each one, with the Denver and Philadelphia mints, two different quarters. And I gave that to my grandson.

RP: Do you remember the, the oldest coin that you had collected?

HN: Yeah, I had a 1905 Indian head penny. And I don't know where that is now. I don't know what happened to it. That was before the war. I don't think we were allowed to take those to camp. I must have lost it somewhere.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

RP: You said your father owned, or operated a store --

HN: Yes.

RP: -- for ten years?

HN: A grocery store, right.

RP: In east L.A.?

HN: East L.A. right.

RP: Uh-huh. Was it a store that he purchased from somebody or did he...

HN: I think he started it on his own.

RP: He started it on his own?

HN: Yeah, we had a house in east L.A. He built this little building in front of the house which was a store. And it was a grocery store for the neighborhood.

RP: A little mom and pop store?

HN: Yeah, and he used to give credit to all the Mexican people that never paid him. [Laughs] So he kinda supported the neighborhood a little bit. So he never got rich. He was always doing things for other people.

RP: He never got rich but he learned Spanish anyway?

HN: Oh yeah, he was fluent in Spanish and English. My mother was, too, Spanish and English, and Japanese.

RP: Did you work in the store when you were growing up?

HN: No, but I just used to eat all the goods in there, the goodies, the candies and the potato chips.

RP: So no wonder he didn't make much money.

HN: Uh-huh. 'Cause I was only what, thirteen when... I was only eleven when we left the store and went to farming. So I didn't work in the store.

RP: Did your brother work there?

HN: He worked in the store a little bit but not that much either 'cause he's five years, be sixteen when he went, when we went to north Hollywood to start farming. He graduated high school then he went to work in a market on a produce stand as a produce display man. And that was his job that he had after graduating high school.

RP: Did your, do you remember the name of your dad's store?

HN: I don't think he had a name. Just a store in east L.A. right down in...

RP: Where was it located?

HN: On Camulos and Lanfranco. Right off the corner, a block from Roosevelt high school.

RP: Well that's a, that's centrally located.

HN: Yeah. That's where we lived, too.

RP: Your house...

HN: The house was right behind the store.

RP: And did you rent that house or own it?

HN: No, my dad owned the house and the store.

RP: And the store.

HN: The whole bit so he sold that when we leased the farm and bought all the equipment in north Hollywood.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

RP: In north Hollywood, what kind of change was that for you? The community...

HN: Well, I went from Hollenbeck Junior High to North Hollywood Junior High School. That's the only change, just different people.

RP: Not as diverse ethnically?

HN: No, more Caucasians than anything else.

RP: So you went from kind of an urban life to more of a, was it more, a little more rural than east L.A.?

HN: Yes, right.

RP: A lot of farming?

HN: All farming. North Hollywood was a farm community. And...

RP: And you had, you had to work on the farm?

HN: I had to work on the farm, yes. That's very hard work, but...

RP: Remember some of the things you did to help your dad out?

HN: Yeah. We used to do everything, weed. That was the hardest part, weeding every row. You had to take the weeds out from produce and it'd take you almost a whole day to go down a quarter mile row of weeds, on hands and foot, knees.

RP: Was that something you did before you left for school or, when...

HN: Before school and after school. And you didn't have to weed all the time, you know. Sometimes it's picking crops. It was weeding when the crops were first planted, when the shoots come up then you got to differentiate shoots from the weeds. Pull the weeds out.

RP: You have to know your weeds.

HN: Yeah.

RP: So what did you harvest from, from your dad's field?

HN: All the produce, beets, carrots, turnips, and we had green onions, watermelons, cantaloupes --

RP: Did your father --

HN: -- radishes.

RP: Oh, I'm sorry.

HN: Go ahead.

RP: Did your father deliver his produce to the market or did somebody come and pick it up?

HN: No, there was a man that used to come by to pick up all the stuff that we picked the day before. In fact, there were two of 'em. My dad ran into a man that wanted baby produce, young produce, before they matured, like small carrots, small turnips, small beets. And the farmer's market in west L.A. you've heard of that? In Hollywood, west Hollywood area?

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: Right at Fairfax and Third Street?

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: There was a place called Farmer's Market. And right there they had baby vegetables that he promoted and sold so my dad used to pick 'em when they were young and sell it to him. He used to come by every morning, pick up the crates of baby vegetables to sell in his market downtown.

RP: A little specialty niche?

HN: Yes.

RP: How did your father's farming operation succeed? I mean...

HN: Well...

RP: Keep the family going?

HN: Yeah, it was, he was making enough to feed the family and going, but he wasn't gonna become rich doing it. And...

RP: Did he enjoy farming?

HN: I think more enjoy... not really enjoyed it. But it was something to sustain the family so it was something that he had to do. And his brother talked him into it so that's how we got into it. But he thought maybe it'd be an easier life. But it turned out to be harder on him then working in a store. 'Cause working in a store entailed... he had to go to the market, you know, every other morning, to buy all the vegetables and the different produce to sell. I remember riding with him on the car to go to the market in the morning before school. We used to leave at five in the morning and get back at about seven. The markets were at Seventh Street Market and Ninth Street Market, downtown L.A.

RP: What do you remember about the markets? Can you share your, what it looked like out there?

HN: Well, yeah, my dad's market or the produce market where we'd go buy?

RP: The produce market.

HN: Produce market were just a bunch of stalls. All the different farmers come to town with their wares and goods. And my dad would just go around the market and buy the things that he needed. And it was a pretty big market. It must have been what, at least half a mile square, maybe quarter of a mile square, maybe I'm getting my distance kind of skewed. But, they're still there, Seventh Market and Ninth Market. They're still downtown L.A. They're still there. And all the farmers in the area used to go there and sell their goods. It's like the flower market. All the flower producers went to the flower market to display their goods to sell to all the different florists. They used to come there from all over southern California to buy flowers.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

RP: This store that your, your father operated, did it also sell Japanese type food products?

HN: Not really. Mostly Mexican type foods. And my mother made Japanese food for us for from the stuff in the store but she never sold anything at the store that was Japanese that I can remember. In fact, we used to buy our tofu and our fresh fish from the fish man. The tofu man used to come by the store to sell it to us.

RP: Peddlers?

HN: Peddlers, yeah. They come in their cars and trucks.

RP: So did you grow up eating much Mexican food since you were in the community there?

HN: Did I what?

RP: Did you grow up eating much Mexican food?

HN: Oh, yeah. A lot of Mexican food, yes. Burritos, tamales... I like it very much, part of my diet even today.

RP: Do you remember some of the, in north Hollywood, do you recall some of the other Japanese American farming families around you there?

HN: The one that was real close to us is the Tabuchis. T-A-B-U-C-H-I. And there's also the Higeshiras and... Sakaguchis.

RP: Is that the Sakaguchi family...

HN: Bo Sakaguchi.

RP: Bo and Obo and...

HN: Yeah, Obo.

RP: Sanbo.

HN: Yeah, Sanbo.

RP: All the Bos.

HN: All the Bos.

RP: They were, they lived pretty close to you?

HN: A few miles, four or five miles.

RP: They were also farming, too?

HN: Oh yeah, they were all farmers, before the oldest one became a doctor they were all farmers, yeah.

RP: Were there, was there any type of Japanese section of north Hollywood? Stores or a community....

HN: They had a, I don't remember a Japanese community center. But I remember the Japanese used to get together for some kind of picnic once a year.

RP: In north Hollywood?

HN: In north Hollywood, yeah. And that's all I remember about north Hollywood. We were only there two years.

RP: Did you continue Japanese language school there?

HN: No, there was no Japanese language school there.

RP: There wasn't one.

HN: That, I didn't go.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

RP: You heard about Pearl Harbor over the radio?

HN: Yes. I did. Some, one Sunday we heard that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, that we were at war. And that was my first inklings. I went to school on Monday and it wasn't very pretty, people, the way they looked at me. They didn't treat me very well on the Monday after Pearl Harbor.

RP: And you said also that between December and March you had a number of...

HN: Altercations with...

RP: Altercations.

HN: With the students, yes I did. But I guess it was just understandable. It wasn't their fault. It was just... they didn't know.

RP: They were just ignorant about...

HN: Probably, yes.

RP: So what did they call you, names? Or...

HN: Yes, call you "Jap," which is a bad thing that we were taught, you know, not to ever use.

RP: So you actually got in fights with some of these Caucasians or...

HN: About three of 'em I think I just had fights with.

RP: You had other students who were Japanese American, too, that you could kind of stick with?

HN: Oh, yeah. There were a few but there weren't too many. Maybe five of us in the whole school that I could remember anyway.

RP: And you told me earlier that you, you didn't want to get into a large altercation because there was...

HN: No, I didn't want to because the, just bring down the whole... we'd get in trouble for it and then...

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: So I never really got into a big one. It's just kinda one on one.

RP: And there was never any...

HN: Rioting?

RP: Not rioting, but there was no intervention by teachers or administrators to, you know...

HN: One time there was. One time they broke us up. But the other two times they didn't.

KP: Can I ask a question here? You said that, that they used the expression "Jap" with you and you said you, you learned that that was not a term that was to be used. Where did you learn that? What sort of context was that...

HN: Oh, it's just that when we're growing up, when the person called you a "Jap," that was like calling a "nigger," Negro a "nigger." It's the same kind of connotations, which is a bad connotations for Japanese Americans. And so it's not that we were taught that. It was just that all our lives when we heard the word it was bad, so...

KP: Right. A denigrating term that you grew up with. Okay.

HN: Yeah.

KP: Thank you.

RP: And you, you know, you felt violated and you took after...

HN: Those were fighting words.

RP: Fighting words.

HN: So...

RP: Uh-huh.


RP: So students were looking at you differently after Pearl Harbor. You mentioned how difficult it was. You felt like... and they were looking at you like you were responsible for...

HN: I know.

RP: ...Pearl Harbor.

HN: Yes, that's what they thought. You know, responsible for it. But then, you know after camp and when I got back to UCLA, everything was different. They didn't look at me as, you know, Japanese American or a "Jap" or anything. They just accepted me as a student. And so I was happy about that when I went to UCLA. And so it was easy to integrate.

RP: It was satisfying for you to see that things had changed.

HN: Yeah. I guess the more educated you are, you're more tolerant.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

RP: Were... did... you were aware of other restrictions that were placed on Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor? Traveling limitations?

HN: It was, yeah, you couldn't go anywhere. Restrictions were there.

RP: And curfew.

HN: Curfew was there. Restrictions were there, right. We had to stay home.

RP: So it really put a real damper on, you know, your life in terms of being able to go anywhere, social...

HN: Yes.

RP: Functions and things like that. Many internees remember, you know, one of the things that went along with post Pearl Harbor was destroying any, quote, "evidence" of implications to Japanese culture or Japan.

HN: My dad didn't do any of that. Not that I could remember anyway. You know, my dad really integrated with the community very well. 'Cause he didn't come here as a farmer, he came here as a worker in a paint factory. So, you know, he intermingled with the people very well, and learned the language very well, English language. And so...

RP: Do you think he may have wanted to become a citizen at that point and by law...

HN: He probably would have wanted to if he could have. And it wasn't allowed to until, what, 1952 was it? Something like that.

RP: Right.

HN: Yeah.

RP: So was it a, a real economic shock, disaster for him to have to sell all his --

HN: Oh, yes.

RP: Machinery and everything else? Do you remember some of the other property that you had? Did you have to...

HN: Well, the biggest thing is the car. He had a car he had to sell. I don't know what he got for it but probably nothing almost.

RP: Did you store furniture or other personal possessions?

HN: No, nothing. Sold everything. He had a couple of, he didn't have horses, I'm sorry, he had mules.

RP: Sold the mules?

HN: To run... yeah, he had to sell. He had two mules. And chickens, rabbits, all the farm equipment. And the crops that were in the ground, had to leave 'em. But actually we sold 'em to some Mexican fellow that... most of it he took over and ran it. Probably harvested the crop. I don't know whether he continued farming or not but...

RP: But that crop was probably taken...

HN: Yeah.

RP: ...taken care of.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

RP: Do you remember much about the trip up to Manzanar?

HN: No, other than... you know, Richard, I'm pretty sure it was a train and then it may have been a bus. I really don't remember now, exactly. I think it was a train. I'm pretty sure it was a train. But the trip up north, no, it just, you know, six hour train ride. Got to Manzanar and got off and they gave you... you lived in... we went right to our unit though, 5-1-4. 'Cause that was already built. Barracks, tarpaper barracks with spaces on the floorboards so dust could come up underneath and it was pretty... and they gave us mattresses to fill with straw to sleep on.

RP: Camp was still being constructed, too, when you came there.

HN: Oh yeah, it was still being built. But most of the blocks were barely started. I think the only ones that were finished is one through six and maybe seven through twelve. I don't know. I don't remember.

RP: Do you recall any feeling you had about, you know, having to leave school or friends or that type of thing behind?

HN: Well, the only thing I could remember is I left a couple of friends at North Hollywood High, you know. But I kept in touch for a couple of years and then we lost contact. But other than that, at thirteen you're pretty young, so you're making new friends all the time. So, in camp we got to play sports so it was kind of... transition for me was probably not as hard as for my mother and father.

RP: Right. A little more normal for you.

HN: Yes.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

RP: What kinds of sports did you participate in?

HN: Basketball, football, and baseball. All three.

RP: Uh-huh. Were your... were you on organized teams at all or were these just games that you...

HN: Everybody has organized teams. You play against other teams, yeah. Organized games or... basketball you play two on two or three on three and things like that, but in baseball usually you have to have a nine man team and, and I belonged to a couple of teams when I got older. One of 'em was the Red Sox. And I think that there's a picture in Toyo Miyatake's exhibit as the Red Sox and I'm sittin' right on the end of it.

RP: What was your position?

HN: Shortstop.

RP: And this was baseball, not softball?

HN: Baseball

RP: Okay. Where do you guys remember playing baseball? In the firebreaks or...

HN: Yeah, in the firebreaks. They had a big baseball field. The biggest one was right down between nine and twelve. Oh, I forget. There's a big baseball field down there.

RP: Oh...

HN: Right behind the school.

RP: Right. There was a large field between Block 19 and 25.

HN: Yeah.

RP: Yeah. Where, where the semi-pro teams, the San Fernando Aces and the...

HN: Oh, yeah. That's where we used to play.

RP: You played down there?

HN: Yeah. But we, I played down there on that field. But, I wasn't old enough to be with the Aces, San Fernando Aces, but I knew all the guys on the team. I think I was a bat boy for them. The Yoshiwara brothers, Ben and...

RP: Pete Matsui?

HN: Pete Matsui, right. And the Okamura boys. And Pete Okamura and George and Massi and Jim Kishi.

RP: Were the Tomura brothers?

HN: Yeah.

RP: Remember them?

HN: San Fernando Aces.

RP: Yeah. Barry Tomura.

HN: Yeah.

RP: Yeah. So they were sort of, I wouldn't call 'em heroes, but role models for you?

HN: Well, the north Hollywood group was. 'Cause most of 'em, north Hollywood group, lived in Block 12. Which is, which is diagonally across from five, you know. It's five, six, then would be eleven, twelve.

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: So I used to go up to twelve and play on their team, the north Hollywood group. But I was from north Hollywood, the two years prior. So I was kinda like their bat boy, too, for the north Hollywood Japanese American team that they had back in the valley.

RP: Oh, they did have a, North Hollywood had a team? So San Fernando, north Hollywood...

HN: San Fernando, north Hollywood, we used to play each other.

RP: Oh, a rivalry.

HN: Yeah.

RP: Where would they play in the valley? Do you remember the field?

HN: Probably some high school. I don't remember. But the... god, I can't remember that far back.

RP: Was your dad into baseball, too? I mean...

HN: What's that?

RP: Was your dad into watching baseball or...

HN: My dad, he worked all his life. He never went, had time for sports, but... and then my brothers, he didn't want to play sports. He'd fly model airplanes more. [Laughs]

RP: Good choice.

HN: Yeah.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

RP: How about your older sister? What did she gravitate towards?

HN: Well, actually she just gravitated toward school and went to school and worked in the Manzanar Free Press, then married Reggie. That's all I remember that she did. [Laughs]

RP: Yeah, uh-huh.

HN: She helped my mother take care of some of the washing and you know... didn't have to cook, just went to the mess hall.

RP: So your uncle, did he have a family as well?

HN: No.

RP: No.

HN: He was single all his life. He just moved in with us at Manzanar, so...

RP: But he was in your barrack room?

HN: Yeah, he was the seventh person in our family.

RP: And what did he do in the camp, do you know?

HN: Well, he worked on the farm.

RP: He just kind of picked up where he left off in north Hollywood.

HN: Yeah.

RP: Did your father also work on a farm?

HN: Well, he worked in the maintenance department for a while, then he gravitated to the farm.

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: My brother worked in the hospital.

RP: George.

HN: After he graduated high school, yes. In fact that, he graduated high school, '41? '40 or '41. Soon as we got to camp he became hospital orderly and helped out in the hospital.

RP: Did he work there all the time that he was there?

HN: All the time that he was in camp, yes.

RP: Yeah, Arnold was a hospital orderly, too.

HN: Yeah.

RP: Uh-huh. Did your brother share any hospital stories about working there?

HN: He didn't share any stories with me, but Arnold knew my brother I'm sure. My brother knew Arnold, yeah.

RP: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

RP: And you began school at Manzanar. You just picked up in high school, what was it...

HN: Yeah, ninth grade.

RP: Ninth grade?

HN: Yeah.

RP: Uh-huh. And you had some, you had some experiences there with, with drama and glee, glee club.

HN: Yes. Yes, I did. Those were my favorite subjects there. The drama class we were in, the high school in '45, we produced Out of the Frying Pan. That was the play that we did. And, and Frizzell was the teacher. And the year before that, or two years before that, Frizzell produced his own operetta. I think it was Loud and Clear. And, in fact, we were the chorale group that backed up that thing. So, I don't know why to this day I remember those songs. The one song I remember the most is, [singing], "When we were young and half-pint sized, we started off to school, to learn the three proverbial Rs and all about the golden rule. Fate decreed us to be pals. In fact we're friendly yet. 'Twas there in the little red school house that I and Stoogie met." And Stoogie's friend was Tony. And so, said, [singing] "On summer days when the weather was warm, and the learning grieved our souls, we crawled along the floor, scampered out the door, heading for the swimming hole. Tony couldn't swim but he jumped right in, in spite of the warning I have him. Full of fright, he sank out of sight, and I dived him and saved him." So, one other, one other verse I remember is, [singing] "One day we got there to learn the rumba. To the Argentine we sailed away. The gal we got to teach was really a peach so we cannot do a stepa rumba, to this day. She said that we would never learn unless we watched our feet. When she found out what we were watchin' instead, she threw us out in the street." [Laughs]

RP: [Laughs] So this opera was patterned around a story about young actors growing up?

HN: Well, that was Out of the Frying Pan. The Loud and Clear was Harry Tashima and Kow Maruki. They were the leads in it. And, so that was before, two years before my time, Out of the Frying Pan, which was the young actors growing up together, Stanislavski's and stuff. Which is the terminology for young actors, a specific style of acting, Stanislavski's style of acting. That's what the story was all about, Out of the Frying Pan, but I don't remember much out of that other than the pictures that are in the '45 annual.

RP: So, were you always somewhat extroverted or just really sort of blossomed in Manzanar?

HN: I think I'm sort of extraverted. Not totally extraverted, but... I remember writing a song for Frizzell, too. You know, because we were in camp. We were stuck into this fenced compound, surrounded with barbed wire. So a popular song in those days was "Don't Fence Me In." So I wrote a... god, I didn't write this down. If I could get started I could finish it, but...

RP: It's okay. Maybe it will come to you later.


HN: [Singing] Oh give me land, little land, under city skies above. Don't fence me in. Let me be by myself in the city that I love, don't fence me in. Let me be by myself in my little room, listen to the radio and Sinatra croon, send me to the city, but I beg of you goon, don't fence me in. Oh, let me straddle my old rattle underneath the city skies. On my hop up, let me travel over gravel 'til I see the buildings rise. Oh, let me ride to the West where Hollywood commences, gaze at Betty Grable 'til I lose my senses, send me to the city but I beg of you please, don't fence me in." Done.

KP: Bravo.

RP: Great. You wrote that?

HN: Yes. I wrote that.

RP: Was it ever performed at all?

HN: Well, it's just a parody to the "Don't Fence Me In" song. Did I ever perform it? I don't remember if I did or not. But...

RP: Well, you just did.

HN: I did it here, yeah.

RP: Yeah. This is a world...

KP: A top record.

HN: Yeah.

RP: World debut. What do they call it? World premiere? That was a great song.

HN: You think so?

RP: Well, yeah. I've sung the other one but I get tired of singing that. It fits your situation so well, too.

HN: That's what I was trying to do, fit our situation in camp, yeah.

RP: Yeah. Did you, did you also write other songs or was that just the one parody that you...

HN: That's the only one I wrote that I wrote a parody on. [Laughs] And remember the song out of Loud and Clear. That was kinda, you know, not that easy either. I don't know why I remember those words.

RP: Uh-huh. And so that was the one that had Tony and Stoogie?

HN: Yeah.

RP: And they kinda sung a verse...

HN: Back and forth, yeah.

RP: Back and forth kind of call and response.

HN: Yeah.

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: The one verse says, [singing] "From there we went to the circus tent to join the three ring forces. I was a ticket taker at the door, Tony took care of the horses. Although we vowed we would never dig a ditch, our record's not quite pure. Our very next job was a WPA. We dug a city sewer." [Laughs] That was another verse that I forgot to put in.

RP: Quite a few verses.

HN: Yeah, there were quite a few. There were a few more that I've forgotten. But some, I think Bruce Kaji has all the words. I'm gonna have to get it from him.

RP: That would be great to have you and some of the old timers show up and do that. Especially at the reunion.

HN: Yeah, I was thinkin' to do that the next reunion if we have one. But I gotta get together with Bruce. Bruce has the words, he doesn't remember the melody. And...

RP: You do.

HN: I knew the melody so he just had to, just convert that into, on a music sheet, you know.

RP: Yeah.

HN: And then there's another song that (Tony Kow Maruki) sang to his girlfriend. And I only know one verse though, is, [singing] "Our love affair of necessity must be, a thing of public interest, not private property. We must do with our romancing with all the people glancing. Oh, let them stare. What do I care? Dadum, dadum." That was the verse (Tony Kow Maruki) sang to his girlfriend, in that...

RP: In that same play?

HN: In that same play, yeah.

RP: That was performed at the auditorium?

HN: Yes.

RP: On stage?

HN: It was performed at that auditorium, right.

RP: So it was a school production but available to everybody in the camp. I mean...

HN: Oh yes. Uh-huh.

RP: Uh-huh. Wow. Original live entertainment. That's great.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

RP: Do you also, you mentioned that Harry Tashima and (Kow Maruki)...

HN: Yeah, uh-huh, Harry, yeah, Tashima.

RP: They had some, they had some other talents, too, like they were a pretty good baseball players.

HN: Harry Tashima was probably the number one softball pitcher in camp. Yeah. And Cal Maruki was a good baseball player, too.

RP: Did you ever have the unenviable chore of trying to bat against Harry?

HN: I don't remember batting against Harry. But I do remember battin' against the successor to Harry. You know what? I've been trying to remember that guy's name for the last two or three months.

RP: Oh really?

HN: And I... he's a real good friend, too. I know his wife's name. Annie Kim, he married Annie Kim. But I can't remember what his name was. But he became number one pitcher when he came back to L.A. He, he pitched for the Bucks. You heard of the Los Angeles Bucks?

RP: No.

HN: Well they were the premier Nisei League pitcher in Los Angeles after we came back to L.A. They were the number one softball team.

RP: You had a very special relationship with your drama teacher and music teacher, Louie Frizzell?

HN: I did because he's the one that got me into UCLA before the war was over. You know, there's not many kids can say they got out of camp before the war was over to go to school. And so he... my folks were still in camp and Louie, after school was out, he came down to his home in Eagle Rock, and so when I came out of camp he picked me up. I stayed at his house one night, then he took me over to UCLA to register and get settled in my room and board, Robeson Hall there. And that's how I got started in UCLA, all because of his help.

KP: When was that? What month, what year did you...

HN: July, 1945. The war was over in August, 1945. 'Cause I was probably one of the first guys out of camp, besides that one, you know, that relocated back east.

RP: Right. The...

HN: Back to the West Coast, I mean, yeah.

RP: Yeah, the West Coast hadn't been open very long.

HN: No.

RP: Until July.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

RP: This is tape two of our continuing interview with Henry Nakano. Henry, you said that Arnold Maeda, who was also involved in the drama class...

HN: Yes he was. I think he was in that Loud and Clear. If I'm not mistaken, he was in it. Yeah.

RP: That Louie Frizzell's father gave him the words to, to a lot of the songs?

HN: Well, somebody, either his father or somebody related to the Frizzells gave all the things to Arnold and Arnold gave 'em all to Bruce. So I think Bruce has 'em now. But I'm not sure. But Bruce doesn't have the music. There was no music that went along with it. So maybe I'd better go see Bruce and try to put the music to the words.

RP: Yeah.

HN: If I can remember 'em. That's gonna be somewhat of a chore I think. Except I like music, too, so...

RP: So Louie really brought a lot of life to your, to your lives.

HN: To the school. He brought a lot of life to the whole school really. He made us all independent actors I guess. And singers.

RP: Yeah.

KP: Can I ask a couple questions about camp? First one is there was a, there was kendo in the camp. But by that time you weren't involved in it anymore? Or did you have any interest in doing that?

HN: No, I wasn't involved in kendo anymore 'cause the teachers that I was taking it from weren't at that camp. It was a different set of teachers.

RP: Do you know if your kendo instructors had been picked up and taken by the FBI?

HN: He was picked up, right, as soon as the war broke out.

RP: What was his name again?

HN: Shimo.

RP: Shimo.

HN: Yeah. In fact, an interesting story is Cedrick Shimo, which is his son, he was a UCLA graduate in 1940. And he went to Berkeley for his master's degree when the war broke out. And he was at Berkeley going to school and his father was picked up as soon as the war broke out. And so he was at Berkeley trying to go to school, in school and his mother was, and he was an only child, the mother was left alone here in Boyle Heights. So then he tried to get home from Berkeley and he couldn't get a bus ticket, couldn't get any transportation home. He had to hitchhike all the way home from Berkeley to get home. And, his story is a very unique story, too. In fact, he's printed quite a bit of his story. I don't know if you know his story or not. You've looked it up? Cedrick Shimo? His story about that he was in service, got drafted, was MIS. And then he became a conscientious objector because he didn't, because his dad was, you know, incarcerated and he got sent, he was American citizen, got drafted. And got treated this way. His dad was treated another way and he didn't think it was right. And so they sent him to a special engineering corps in the middle of the country for Japanese American objectors. I'm not too sure about... my story is not really good 'cause I don't know the story. But, so that's all I know about Cedrick's story. He's got one hell of a story to tell.

KP: The other question I had was your interest and your brother's interest in model planes.

HN: Uh-huh.

KP: At Manzanar I know there was a model plane club. Were either of you involved in that?

HN: I don't... no, we weren't involved in that. 'Cause our folks didn't have much money. So it took money to buy model airplanes, even in camp, even if you buy 'em in catalogs and things. And, you know, they were making, what, twelve dollars a month? And so, you can't live on twelve dollars a month. Well, you can't do any extra-curricular activities. So as far as I know, I was too young to know any better, I guess.

RP: Did you know of the club in Manzanar?

HN: I knew about the club, yes.

RP: Wingnuts?

HN: Yeah.

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: But my brother never got involved in it. And I guess he couldn't afford it or whatever.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

RP: You did work at Manzanar?

HN: I worked.

RP: Tell us what you did there.

HN: I worked in the garbage crew. And when I got to be sixteen, that's when they allow you to work. So during the summertime I got out of the garbage crew and we used to go around the mess halls, pick up the garbage to take 'em across the street, the highway over there, to dump it in the place. They had a place for the garbage dump. But it was a great job because we got to go around the kitchens to find out which was making the best kitchens, the best pastries, and the best foods. And so we used to come back and then go eat our lunches at the best kitchens. And then we knew the best dinners so we used to go to that block to eat the dinner. [Laughs] So it was a good job.

RP: That doesn't sound too glamorous but it had its perks.

HN: Yes.

RP: Do you remember the mess halls that you went to?

HN: Oh yeah, all the different. The whole camp mess hall...

RP: I mean the ones that had the best lunch or dinner.

HN: No, I don't remember which ones.

RP: But you did then?

HN: Yeah, because they had a pastry baker in some of the mess halls that were real good at making pies and cakes, you know. It was a great job. At least we got fat during the summertime. [Laughs]

RP: Now would they just --

HN: Well, with garbage anyway, you know, when it's fresh, it doesn't stink. If you pick it up every day it doesn't stink.

RP: Were the garbage cans left outside for you?

HN: Yeah.

RP: Or did you actually go inside and...

HN: No, some of 'em we had to go in and empty 'em for 'em. We helped 'em out. That's how we got inside the kitchens.

RP: What kind of truck did you use to haul the garbage? Was it like a panel truck?

HN: Regular flatbed truck.

RP: Flatbed?

HN: Yeah.

KP: Did you just put all the cans on the back of the truck?

HN: Cans on back of the truck and took it out to the garbage dump and dumped 'em and brought 'em back empty, yeah. Rinsed 'em out.

RP: You said that you drove, it was like maybe 5 miles out to the east of the camp, or...

HN: What do you mean?

RP: You said that you, you took the garbage...

HN: Yeah, across the highway, somewhere across the highway east of, east of the camp. I don't remember where it was except we used to go across the highway a couple of miles and then into a dirt road back in there and there was a, somewhere was a garbage dump that the government corps of engineers built for us.

RP: Huh. Was there a hole or a pit that you threw it in?

HN: God, I don't remember.

RP: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 22>

RP: But, so you got out of camp for a little while, too.

HN: Yeah. Got out of camp. But we used to sneak out anyway, out the other side and go up the mountains.

RP: Did you fish?

HN: Yes. We used to use bread dough for bait. It was good fishing bait.

RP: What did you use for...

HN: Hook?

RP: A hook and a rod?

HN: Well, we'd just take safety pins and bend 'em into thing and piece of stick with a string on it. You innovate when you don't have anything.

RP: And where would, would you just sneak out where everyone else did around Bairs Creek?

HN: Yeah. I lived right next to Bairs Creek.

RP: You were in five, yeah.

HN: Five. We just went right up to the river, looked through the guard towers and snuck under the fence and went up the bank.

RP: So when would you go out? Would you go out very early in the morning?

HN: Early in the morning, about three o'clock in the morning we'd go out.

RP: And then you head up Bairs Creek and...

HN: Yeah, head up Bairs Creek and then we'd get there about five, start fishing. But we usually didn't come home until it got dark though. We would stay up there 'til it got dark. Then we came home.

RP: You stayed out there all day then?

HN: Yeah.

RP: Huh. Did you have your special fishing holes or did you just fish the whole creek?

HN: Oh, we just fished the creek, we went up and come down. Then after a while they weren't watching very closely anyway. We're not the only ones that went out. A lot of people went out.

RP: Is that where you actually caught your first fish? Had you fished before?

HN: Yes. No, I hadn't fished before. First time I caught a trout, yeah. But... there's a guy writing a whole story on that right? Yeah.

RP: Yes.

KP: Did you ever find your way up into the mountains or just follow the creek?

HN: No, we didn't. We were too young to go up any heights. We just went up to the foothills and back down.

RP: How many times would you say that you went out fishing?

HN: I can't remember. At least ten anyway.

RP: And who did you go with?

HN: Just another friend. Just two of us. You can't take too many otherwise you get caught. [Laughs] You know, you can't get five guys to go. That's a crowd.

RP: That's a good feeling to be on the other side of the fence for a little while.

HN: Well, I was going out with the garbage truck, though, at sixteen so, you know... I didn't start fishing 'til I was about fifteen.

RP: Do you remember anybody... there was one gentleman who used to go out... I don't know if he, he might have been on the garbage crew, too, but he said they'd dump the garbage and then they would stop at the Owens River and they'd try to scoop out carp, you know, using garbage cans.

HN: Carp?

RP: Yeah, they'd scoop through the river and try to get the carp into the garbage cans and bring 'em back and dump 'em into the gardens.

HN: Oh, yeah?

RP: Yeah.

HN: I didn't know about that one.

RP: Fishing by garbage can.

HN: Yeah. That's interesting. Good story.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 23>

RP: The other experience that you had that took you out of camp was this hike that your class took to Winnaduma.

HN: Yeah. Our, I forget which class it was. One of our class got a permit to take the whole class across the highway, up the Cascade Mountains to Winnaduma, up to that Indian monument and the obelisk that sat on top of the peak there. We went all the way up to there and down again in one day. And it took us about six or seven hours to get up there and about two hours to come down.

RP: So you were on a... a bus took you up there and...

HN: A bus took us to the foothills.

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: And then we hiked from there up and down. I remember that as clear as day. That was kind of a fun trip.

RP: They're still up there.

HN: In fact, yeah, when I drive up 395, you look up there, you can still see it. It's still up there. Have you been up there?

RP: Yes, I have.

HN: Oh, yeah.

KP: So have I.

RP: Kirk has been up there.

HN: You have, too? Yeah.

KP: It's rough country up there.

HN: Oh, it's a pretty tough hike.

RP: Yeah.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 24>

RP: So how was your, how was your academic life at Manzanar? How did you do?

HN: Well, I got all A's. School was too easy.

RP: Compared to what you...

HN: But when I got to UCLA it was a whole new reality set in. [Laughs] It got tough. School got hard. They didn't teach us enough at Manzanar. What they didn't really teach us is how to study and read and study and how to study and, you know. So when you get to UCLA, when you had to read and put in the time, otherwise you never passed. That's the one thing that was bad about school, I think. In Manzanar I got all A's and I was helping other people get past their P-chem, I mean, their physical chemistry class and their physics class, math classes and... in fact, one girl comes up to me now and says, "You know what? Hank, if you didn't help me through the physics class I would have never gotten through there." Grace Nakamura. Did you interview Grace?

RP: I haven't but somebody else has.

HN: Yeah.

RP: And that's what you kind of gravitated towards in school was the science classes?

HN: What's that?

RP: Chemistry, physics...

HN: Yeah. And math.

RP: There's that famous line the movie that we show, saying, you know, they're showing the classroom with people and saying, "Imagine this is a Bunsen burner." Because they didn't have very much in the way of lab equipment.

HN: Uh-huh.

RP: Did that change later? Do you remember having lab equipment in your classes? And, or lack of...

HN: God, I don't remember having chemistry lab equipment. Not that I know of. No, just books.

RP: Were there other teachers that kind of sparked your enthusiasm for learning other than Louie?

HN: Well, Greenley did, the blind teacher. Yeah. He kind of was a very unique individual.

RP: In what way?

HN: I really liked him. He was a very... besides his handicap... he was very good in bringing it out, your personality. He was very good at that even though he was blind. He'd tend to say, "How now brown cow?" You know. So, he was very good in trying to teach us enunciation and speaking.

RP: There was another teacher, a Miss Kramer.

HN: Yeah, that's the Latin teacher. She was very good. I liked her very much. Got good grades in Latin.

RP: Did she encourage you to go to college?

HN: Yes. She did.

KP: Can I ask a question? 'Cause it's, it's really interesting that you brought it up that you felt that, you say on the one hand that the teachers were very good but they didn't prepare you for college. There's kind of a paradox there. Do you think it was part of the expected curriculum that just wasn't up to college par or, how do you...

HN: I think that's what it was. It wasn't hard enough. It was too easy for me. I almost didn't have to study and I was gettin' A's. You know, read it once and then, and he'd, they'd teach it. I remembered everything they taught. And then to reproduce what they taught was easy to do for me. But, when it got difficult, when it took a lot of reading and calculations of things and studying to really understand it, they never pushed that on us to do. To go beyond what we should have done. And so when I got to college, you know, you're not supposed to learn twenty, thirty percent of the subject, you got to know eighty or ninety percent of the subject. And you never got there unless you studied beyond what they, lectures in class.

KP: So would you say the curriculum at Manzanar wasn't really focused on college prep?

HN: No, it wasn't focused for college prep. It was not, right.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 25>

RP: So, July, you leave to go to UCLA.

HN: Yes.

RP: And the rest of your family is still in camp.

HN: Right.

RP: And the war is still going on.

HN: Yes.

RP: And, how did you feel finally getting out of camp and...

HN: Well, I was a little nervous. You know, not knowing what to expect. And going to school, I wasn't scared to go to UCLA. I was scared of what to expect and what they expected of me. And I had a job working in the library for fifty cents an hour. And I had a work schedule of eighty hours a month, so... and also while going to school I made $40 a month. My room and board was $36 a month, so that left me $4 to spend for the month. [Laughs] And that's all I had 'cause my folks didn't have any money so... and that was my sum total of dollars and cents of going to school.

RP: And you, so you were one of the first Japanese Americans to re-enter, or enter UCLA after the war.

HN: Yes I was. I was one of three. There were three of us that got in in July. And then when the fall semester started in October, I think it was something like that, then a lot of them came. It was quite a few of them.

RP: Did you tend to form together as a group and hang out together?

HN: Yeah, there was a Nisei Bruins Club.

RP: Nisei Bruins Club? Oh, so you helped organize that or start that?

HN: I didn't organize it but... did I start it? I think me and my friend did it. Or, me and couple other friends. Maybe three of us, or four of us started Nisei Bruins Club.

RP: Who were these two other kids that were there in July? Do you remember their names?

HN: Avon Oyakawa and... god, what was his name? Shibata, Hank Shibata. The three of us, Hank Shibata, Avon Oyakawa, and myself.

RP: Did they also come from a camp into UCLA or...

HN: Yeah, they come from different camps. They did, yes.

RP: Is that club that you organized still going?

HN: You know, to tell you the truth, I think it still is. I'm not positive, though. But I think the Nisei Bruins Club is still active in UCLA campus.

RP: Earlier you talked about some of the difficulties you had with students after, after Pearl Harbor, name calling and things like that. How was your, how were you received, you know, at UCLA?

HN: It was a totally different atmosphere at UCLA. I think maybe because the more intelligent people understood it more, and they knew about it. So, when I got there, there was no animosity there. The dorm that I lived in, everybody accepted as equal.

RP: Did you opt for a fraternity, too?

HN: Huh?

RP: Did you go out for a fraternity?

HN: Japanese couldn't, didn't have a fraternity. Or couldn't join a fraternity either.

RP: So there were still some obstacles.

HN: There was still discrimination, yes.

RP: Did you try to and you were told...

HN: No, I didn't try to 'cause Robeson Hall where I stayed was a co-op. And that was like a fraternity of discriminated people like Jewish people, Negro people, Caucasians, and myself, the Caucasians that the fraternities didn't want. [Laughs]

RP: So all the disaffected were segregated in one hall.

HN: Yeah. But that was most of the, I'd say mostly Jewish, Negros, Caucasians, and three Japanese.

RP: So you had some, some stories to share between all of you.

HN: Uh-huh.

RP: About, you know, getting...

HN: We all got along together. It was no problem gettin' along. You know, you are all assigned duties in the co-op, either cooking duties or cleaning duties or gardening duties or something. And I was in the cooking crew. I used to work in the kitchen.

RP: Did you?

HN: That was my job. But I had to work it in with my eighty hours at the library.

RP: You worked at the library. And did you, you went out, your major was chemistry?

HN: Yes.

<End Segment 25> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 26>

RP: And you eventually graduated with a...

HN: B.S. in chemistry, yes.

RP: Chemistry. And did you go into the, the work force after that?

HN: Yes, I went into the work force right after that working for a polymer, organic polymer chemical resin company in Los Angeles, called Specialty Resins Company. That was in 1952. And that company in 1959 was bought out by Allied Chemical Corporation. And then in 1966, Cargill bought them out. I don't know if I got the dates right but...

RP: And you worked for Cargill...

HN: Yeah, until I retired.

RP: So a total of forty years, was it?

HN: No, no. Twenty... I forget.

RP: Overall, from the time that you started with...

HN: I worked for Specialty Resin Company from '52 to '59, so that's seven years. Then I worked for Allied Chemical from '59 to '66, so that's seven years. Then I worked for Cargill 'til I retired in ('92), ('93)? No, let's see, I got to work backwards. I'm eighty-one minus sixteen years, what's that?

RP: Eighty-one minus sixteen is sixty-seven.

HN: No, seventy-seven.

RP: No sixty, sixty-five. Sixteen plus sixty-five is eighty-one.

HN: (1993) is when I retired, yeah. So I was with Cargill for about twenty, twenty-six years or something like that. I forget how many years.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 27>

RP: And were you, you had some, some, a stint in the military.

HN: Yes, I was drafted in 1946, March. I went to Fort Robinson, Arkansas, for basic training. Then my dad died that year and I think it was May, or June. So I had to come out on break or leave so I got almost two weeks of basic in and had to come home to the funeral. So then my group got finished with basic so when I come back to Robinson they stuck me in the office there, the company commander's office. So I got stuck there and I did basic but just went out to the shooting range for the shooting medals. I never had to go on the bivouac or a hike or... I just went through basic playing in, working in the office.

RP: That was you basic training?

HN: Yeah, so that's my basic training, besides shooting. Then they sent me to Fort Lewis, Washington, in the engineer corps.

RP: Was that the place that you said you played pool with a mailman?

HN: No, that was... that's where it was, yeah. No, I played pool with a mailman at Camp Robinson when I was in basic. Him and I, after we did the morning report, we played pool all day, until the basic training... that was eight week basic. We only had eight weeks those days for basic training. Or was it thirteen weeks? I forget what it was. Anyway, then I went to Fort Lewis, Washington, for engineer corps training. Then I got shipped to MIS at Monterey, California.

RP: Oh they, they administered a test or how did they find out about your Japanese proficiency?

HN: Oh, they, they knew about it. They gave me a test in Japanese. And so I passed it so they said, "Well, we'll send you to Japanese school." So they send me to MIS in Monterey and then they asked me to re-enlist for three years. And so I said, "No, I want to go back to UCLA. I'm ready to go back to school." And it was interesting, 'cause one year, about one year and three months, which is what, fifteen months of schooling, that almost paid for UCLA time. 'Cause it's actual time at school that counts. So in those days if you went to school, what, eight months out of the year without vacations, then you almost... was a whole year, so I only had two and a half years left so I only had to pay for a half a year of school. And I graduated UCLA.

RP: What was the MIS school in Monterey like?

HN: Japanese language school.

RP: Uh-huh. Did they, were they also teaching other languages at that time, too?

HN: No, they hadn't started the other languages yet. But I understand that the next language they brought in was Russian, then after that it was Chinese. So right now there's three languages taught there, right?

RP: Maybe more.

HN: I don't know if Japanese is taught there yet anymore.

RP: But maybe Russian.

HN: Maybe Muslim, Arabic. Probably has Arabic school now.

RP: Yeah, Farsi possibly.

HN: Probably. Yeah.

<End Segment 27> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 28>

RP: So what was, what was the language school like for you? How was it organized and...

HN: Well, since I didn't want to re-enlist to go to language school they put me in the translation department so I just sat there working in an office again. So... [Laughs]

RP: What did you translate?

HN: Didn't translate anything. Did a little bit of translations from English into Japanese, but I couldn't write the language so I'd have to do it Romaji, you know what that is? Just English characters with Japanese pronunciation. [Laughs]

RP: Uh-huh.

HN: I could speak it and understand it and know the words, but I couldn't write the kanjis, the characters.

RP: Occasionally you'd sneak out to the Japanese restaurant and...

HN: Oh, yeah, all the time. [Laughs] That was a fun time. We had to hide from this one colonel though. He was always looking for us. Colonel Keller, that's what it was.

RP: Did you take any classes at all at the language...

HN: MIS? No, I didn't take any classes because...

RP: You just did the translation.

HN: Just the translation department, yeah.

RP: You said that you were translating some documents from Japanese into English?

HN: Well, somebody already had it translated so all I had to do was type it.

RP: Oh, type it.

HN: I was proficient in typewriter. I could type a hundred words a minute.

<End Segment 28> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 29>

RP: Your, you said that your dad died in 1946?

HN: Yes.

RP: So it was shortly after...

HN: After getting out of camp, right.

RP: Gettin' out of camp.

HN: Right.

RP: Can you share with us the circumstances that were surrounding his passing?

HN: Well, he just, he had high blood pressure. And after he got out of camp, he barely started to work and then he had a heart attack. 'Cause he got out in something like November? October? September, October, November or something like that. Then he settled in east L.A. 'cause had a lot of friends still there, lived there.

RP: What did he start doing for, for work?

HN: Well, he actually didn't work. You know, he couldn't find work and didn't work. But... my youngest sister was, went to Roosevelt High School. And my mother worked just as a house maid, cleaning house and washing clothes to earn a little bit of money. But my dad couldn't work, he had high blood pressure. Then he had a heart attack and he died within a few months of getting out of camp.

RP: Was he being treated at all during the time --

HN: In camp?

RP: -- he was in camp?

HN: No, not at all. Not that I know of that I can remember, no.

RP: Yeah. How about your brother, George, was he --

HN: He could.

RP: -- was he drafted?

HN: Oh, no. He got married in camp, and he moved to Cleveland, right from camp, before the war was over. He relocated to Cleveland, Ohio.

RP: And did he ever serve --

HN: And the draft never caught up to him.

RP: Oh. Who did he marry in camp?

HN: Toki Yamahiro, who worked in the hospital. Yeah, he met her there.

RP: And they, they relocated to Cleveland. Did they return to California eventually?

HN: They returned to California, back in what, '47 I think it was, yeah. '47. He started a flower shop right down in Japanese town, called Nisei Florists. So he did floral arranging and floral business until he passed away. He was involved in that business.

RP: And your younger sister, you said she re-attended Roosevelt High and then --

HN: Yeah.

RP: -- what did she go on to do?

HN: Oh she ended up working at a department store and then she got married and had eight kids, no, nine kids, one passed away... my youngest sister.

RP: And your other brother?

HN: What's that?

RP: You had, you just had one other brother, was it?

HN: One brother, yes. And he, he had four kids, two girls and two boys. And I got married and I forget what year, what year it was now. [Laughs] Well, whatever it was, I had two step-daughters. My wife had two daughters from... and I had adopted 'em and I had one son. And so now I have seven grandchildren. So...

<End Segment 29> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 30>

RP: Was your wife Japanese American and did she have a...

HN: She was Japanese Issei, born in Japan.

RP: Oh, born in Japan. How did you meet her?

HN: I met her here in town because her, her father worked for my uncle in Japan. And my uncle told her father to tell her to look us up. And that's how I met her. And she was married to a soldier in Japan, American soldier. She married an American soldier, had two kids by him. And they came here and lived in, by Fort MacArthur here right down in San Pedro. And he passed away.... unfortunately he had some heart complications at a pretty young age, early fifties, yeah. And so I met his wife and got along well so I married her. I was quite old, thirty-two or thirty-three or so, somethin' like that. I had no intention of gettin' married, but you know how that is. [Laughs]

RP: Yeah, it's happened to me a couple of times.

<End Segment 30> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 31>

RP: So how did you get involved in these reunions? How long have you been... you've been going to every reunion since they started?

HN: Well, Bruce Kaji and I grew up together in Boyle Heights before the war. He and, he and I were, when we were children we used to play together, baseball, track, Roosevelt High School. He lived right across the street from Roosevelt High School. We used to jump the fence onto the field. And then my one recollection of Bruce Kaji is we were playing in his driveway and I hit the baseball and broke his window. And I ran all the way home. He says the fastest hundred yard dash they ever had. [Laughs] Bruce recollects that, too.

RP: Oh, he corroborates the story?

HN: Yeah, he corroborates my story.

RP: Oh geez. That's terrible.

HN: He says, "Hank, it was no problem. I told my dad and my dad just went out and bought some glass and fixed it up and that was it."

RP: Huh. And your parents never heard about it either?

HN: No, my parents never heard about it.

RP: And Bruce was a member of a pretty prominent club in Manzanar, Manza-Knights.

HN: Manza-Knights, yeah. He was, yeah.

RP: Did you know any of the other guys in that club?

HN: I knew most of 'em, yes, all of them.

RP: Did you?

HN: Yeah.

RP: Did you hang out with them on occasions?

HN: No, I never did. I was too young, I think. Well, Bruce is one year (older).

RP: You were a little older...

HN: -- older than me but maybe that puts him in the club range. 'Cause Kow Maruki was in that club.

RP: Yeah.

HN: Yeah. And Kataoka, Tak. Who was... I think Kow married his sister, right? Yeah.

RP: I guess Ralph Lazzo was involved with them too.

HN: In camp he was, yeah.

RP: Did you know him?

HN: Ralph Lazzo? Yeah, very much so, very lot.

RP: What do you remember about Ralph?

HN: Oh yeah, I knew him very well.

RP: Can you tell us any...

HN: Good guy.

RP: Have any specific memories of him?

HN: No, I really can't. I didn't go around with him so, other than school, you know, when I seen him all the time, knew about him and of him, and all the stories about him. But I never had any interaction with him.

RP: So did Bruce kind of rope you in to working on these reunions?

HN: Well, he didn't rope me into it. I kinda volunteered, I guess. Maybe "roped," "volunteers" is two different words meaning the same. [Laughs] But he was pretty active in his class and I was pretty active in my class so... the '44 class really took care of the reunions for many years at the beginning. Then they got us involved.

RP: Forty-fivers?

HN: Yeah. He says, "Well, you guys are younger than us." I said, "A big deal, one year?"

RP: Yeah, you were trying to rope some of the younger kids into it.

HN: I know it. Now we're trying to get a younger, an even younger, but we're having a tough time.

RP: So how does it feel to get together with people that you knew in camp and you still maintain a...

HN: It's fun. I think it's good to recollect and think about old times and the good times and bad times we shared together, I guess. You want to call 'em bad times. I don't think there was much bad times, so mostly good times. We were too young to have bad times. I feel for my parents, though. I think they had the bad times, really bad times. When they had to worry about where, when's the next meal gonna come from, you know.

RP: Do you think some of the stresses of camp had a profound impact on your father's illness?

HN: Possibly. That's pretty tough to take something like that. Not that easy to take anyway. And reparations that we got, they were all dead already so they never really got involved into enjoying it, you know, if they could.

<End Segment 31> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 32>

RP: I don't know if you... let's see, did you directly participate in that "loyalty questionnaire" that came out or were you still too young?

HN: No, that was before my time.

RP: 1943.

HN: I was too young. Just my brother.

RP: Just your brother?

HN: Yeah.

RP: And how did he answer?

HN: I think he put "yes-no," like most, which is... he didn't say "no-no" though. He said, I forget what order the questions were in.

RP: First question, you know, "Are you willing to serve in the armed forces whenever ordered to do so?" or volunteer?

HN: Yeah, I think that was "yes." They said, "Will you fight against the Japanese soldiers?" or something.

RP: The second one was the loyalty, direct loyalty question, loyalty to the, forswear loyalty to the emperor of Japan.

HN: He said "no" to that. So he was one of the "yes-nos" which weren't pulled into Tule Lake. The "no-nos" went to Tule Lake. That's as far as I can remember about that. We were too young to answer those questions.

RP: The other thing that kind of shook up the camp tremendously was the "riot."

HN: Yeah. That was right down the street from us, all the way down there in Block 1.

RP: Block 5 is not very far away.

HN: Yeah, we were right down the street.

RP: Did you hear shots?

HN: Yeah. Heard shots.

RP: Where were you when those shots rang out?

HN: I can't recall. I really can't. Don't even know what time of day it was. All I know is it was a big commotion down there and my folks said, "Stay away. Stay home."

RP: Did you know or have any acquaintanceship with one of the Niseis who was killed, Jimmy Ito?

HN: No, not at all. I didn't know them.

RP: So other than your involvement with the reunions has kind of shaped your, Manzanar has kind of shaped your experiences in that course, is there anything else that has affected you as a result of your time in camp?

HN: Actually, my time in camp really was kids playing with kids. So really I wasn't old enough, I don't think, to really have an effect on me, you know, as far as the things that should have affected me if I was older. So I'd have to say no, it didn't affect me other than I was in camp, I was part of camp. And went to school, you know, and played sports, and that's about it as far as... made friends there. And those friends, I still have a few that I still communicate with. But, other than that, no. Everything's copacetic. [Laughs]

<End Segment 32> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 33>

RP: Any other stories or remembrances that you, that we haven't mentioned that you would like to share?

HN: You asked that question of that thing there and I couldn't remember any specific stories other than playing golf in camp.

RP: Oh. Well, we haven't heard much about that.

HN: We played golf in camp.

RP: You did?

HN: 'Cause the Hori father, I don't know if you know Mr. and Mrs. Hori or Kaz Hori, Hideo Hori?

RP: Hideo Hori, I've heard of him.

HN: Okay, well, their dad was owner of Horishokai, which is Hori's, like a mercantile store down in downtown L.A. before the war. And they were big time retailers. And so he was one of the... Mr. Hori was one of the few Isseis that played golf. He had the wherewithal and the money to do that. And so when we went to camp in Block 5 and north of Block 6, around that corner there, he laid out a golf course on the sand, and he made sand greens. He mixed the sand with a little oil, made it not as bumpy or sandy or kind of like if you pulled a pipe across it that it would smooth it out enough to putt. So we used to assimilate to think about as a green. Hit golf balls off the sand onto the green. Get a rake with a pipe on it and rake a line to the hole and putt the ball into the hole. And we played golf in camp. Mr. Hori did anyway. I didn't play golf but I just watched. So, that's how the Hori family played golf in camp. And that's the one thing I remember. And every block had their own basketball court that they built. Block 5 had one. We did, I know.

RP: Do you remember any other improvements or recreational equipment that you had in Block 5? A lot of people mentioned gymnastic bars and things like that.

HN: Well, some people in the mail bought weights for gymnastics and lifting and stuff like that to build their bodies up. Like the Suzuki brothers and Seizo Tanibata in our class, he worked out with him. And Haruki Murakami, my '44 class, he worked out on the bars. They both, all had muscular bodies. 'Cause they ordered the weights in the catalog and then it came in the camp and they were lifting weights. I remember that.

RP: Did you order anything from the catalog?

HN: I can't remember. I don't think I had enough money to buy anything. My folks didn't anyway. In fact, Seigo Yoshinaga, which I told you to interview that you did you said... did you interview him? You did not. You guys should get to interview him. He must have more money than me 'cause he bought a very nice glove in camp. And you know, he let me use it. And in fact, he almost gave it to me in camp. So I had a very good glove to play with in camp and it was all due to him. And to this day I remember it and I remind him of it. [Laughs]

RP: I remember hearing a story from another person who used to golf who said there would be kids that would, they would go down into Bairs Creek or wade in Bairs Creek during the summertime to catch the golf balls that, you know...

HN: That came over the greens there?

RP: That came over the greens and popped in the... and then they'd go and retrieve them and sell 'em.

HN: Well that's where the golf course was, right next to... between Block 5 and Bairs Creek.

RP: Bairs Creek, yeah.

HN: Yeah.

RP: Was there any type of a little golf club, I mean, a clubhouse or anything that you remember being built?

HN: No, it's... Mr. Hori was the only one that I know of, and his sons played golf, too.

RP: Uh-huh. So they actually constructed a course, too.

HN: Oh yeah, they constructed the course and the greens. No grass though.

RP: No grass. We interviewed a gentleman yesterday who had some photographs of the golf course and people golfing on it.

HN: On the sand?

RP: Yes.

HN: Yeah. [Laughs]

RP: And maybe some of 'em were Horis. There were some other people.

HN: Maybe some other people were using it too. I'm sure they were, but...

RP: Did you have, I mean, I know financially you couldn't afford it, but would you have played golf if you had the clubs?

HN: I don't know if I would have played golf. I had too many other activities. I was playing baseball, basketball, and football. So...

KP: We also have, in our files, we've got a copy of a Manzanar golf club permit or something like that. It was printed up.

HN: Oh yeah.

KP: Yeah. Probably people who played the course or something like that. It's kind of like a country club permit.

HN: Oh yeah.

RP: It would be interesting to see a little, you know, what do you call 'em? Score card.

HN: Huh, I've never seen that.

RP: It started as, according to the Manzanar Free Press, started as a nine hole course and eventually was expanded to eighteen...

HN: Oh yeah.

RP: Maybe later on. It had an interesting water hazard that's for sure. [Laughs] Well, Henry, thank you so much for giving us your, your perspective on camp and...

HN: Well, thank you.

RP: ...your stories, we really appreciate it.

HN: I enjoyed giving it, whatever good it's gonna do. [Laughs]

RP: It's again, like I say, another one of the ten thousand stories of Manzanar.

HN: There's a lot of 'em, yeah.

RP: That's preserved.

<End Segment 33> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.