Densho Digital Archive
Manzanar National Historic Site Collection
Title: Takeshi Minato Interview
Narrator: Takeshi Minato
Interviewer: Richard Potashin
Location: Gardena, California
Date: December 4, 2008
Densho ID: denshovh-mtakeshi-01

<Begin Segment 1>

RP: This is an oral history for the Manzanar National Historic Site, and today we're talking with Tak Minato. Our interview is taking place at his residence located at 15021 Budlong Street in Gardena, California. The date of the interview is Thursday, December 4, 2008. And the interviewer is Richard Potashin and our videographer this morning is Kirk Peterson. We're gonna be talking with Tak about his experiences as an internee at the Manzanar War Relocation Center during World War II. Also, additionally, his relocation to Chicago and his growing up years at Terminal Island in California. This interview will be archived in the Park's library and Tak, do I have permission to continue our interview?

TM: [Nods].

RP: Thank you very much. It's nice to finally sit down and formally talk.

TM: Oh, yes.

[Interruption]

RP: We're gonna start a little bit with your family background, talking about your mother and father and some of your siblings. We want to start with you. What was your birth date?

TM: June 13, 1922.

RP: And where were you born?

TM: Park City, Utah.

RP: And do you remember your given name at birth?

TM: Yeah. Takeshi.

RP: Can you spell that for us?

TM: T-A-K-E-S-H-I.

RP: Did you also have an English name?

TM: That... I have a, I guess it's a nickname I put on later on. Bob.

RP: You gave yourself that nickname?

TM: Yes.

RP: But usually people have, have referred to you as Tak?

TM: Yeah, yeah.

RP: T-A-K.

TM: T-A-K, yeah. Uh-huh.

RP: Tak, do you remember if you were born at home or, in Park City were you born at home with a midwife or...

TM: No, my dad delivered me.

RP: Your dad did?

TM: [Laughs] There was nobody around in Park City, just my father and mother. And there were quite a few laborer, the Spanish laborer, and that's one of the reasons why when I was four years old and my sister was five and my brother was two years old, we came to California. Because my father felt that there were no chance of educating the kids.

RP: And Park City was a, part of it was a railroad community, wasn't it?

TM: Right. And he worked for the railroad, yeah.

RP: Your father worked for the railroad?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Do you remember what railroad it was?

TM: Let's see, Pacific...

RP: Union Pacific?

TM: I think so.

RP: We, was he a section-hand or do you remember what he did?

TM: Yeah, yeah, he was a section foreman is what, is what they call 'em, yeah.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

RP: Let's talk a little more about his background before he came to America.

TM: Oh.

RP: First of all, can you, can you give us his full name?

TM: Yeah. Teizo. T-E-I-Z-O. Minato.

RP: Minato. And he never took and English name?

TM: Well, I guess he... all these Issei, they took a, an American English name and they, they used to call him Frank.

RP: Where in Japan was your father from?

TM: What the heck? I can't... there's a lot of things that don't come to my mind right away.

RP: Wakayama?

TM: Yeah, it's Wakayama. Oh, Shimozato. Shimozato, Wakayama.

RP: Shimazato would be the village?

TM: Yeah, right.

RP: O-S-H-I-M-A? Oshima?

TM: Yeah. Shimo.

RP: Shimo. Oh, O.

TM: Yeah, Shimozato, Z-A-T-O.

RP: Z-A-T-O. Uh-huh. Do you know much about your father's life in Japan?

TM: Not too much. When he was eighteen years old, he, I think he said he went to Osaka and he became a wireless telegraph operator. Then he decided to come to America.

RP: Was he the oldest son in the family?

TM: No, no, he had, they had a big family. There were about ten in the family.

RP: So he, he had no chances of inheriting any land or family possessions, so maybe that affected...

TM: Yeah. But as far as the possession, he was adopted by a family, another Minato family, and he had a house in Japan. But he, we know, we never went back at that time, but he had this house in Japan in Shimozato. Yeah.

RP: Do you know if he had much education in Japan? Did he make it through high school?

TM: No, I don't think so. Yeah, he was a self-educated man. Spoke pretty good English, yeah.

RP: Did he, did he acquire his English skills in this country?

TM: Yeah. After he came here, yeah.

RP: What do you remember most about your father?

TM: What do I remember about him? Well, he was a low-key, mild, quiet man, yeah.

RP: That, that classic Issei stoic kind of person?

TM: Yeah. [Laughs]

RP: Never really showed much emotion?

TM: No, that's right, yeah. Because I remember I only got scolded one time in my life.

RP: What was that for?

TM: I came... I was about a third grader, I guess, and I came home and we lived in a house and I guess I was kinda lazy and we put... it was a rainy day and instead of walking over to the corner to put my umbrella away, I threw the umbrella and broke a window. [Laughs] That's the only time he got angry, yeah, for being lazy.

RP: Did your father have a, a creative side to him? Did he, did he work with art at all or did he have any hobbies that you recall?

TM: Well, he, like the Isseis get together, he would sing and dance and, he did a lot of different things. He, well, he wasn't much involved with Shimozato. He was very involved with my mother's side which was Esumi, Esumi-mura. And he was secretary of the club and things like that. He was very involved, yeah.

RP: That would be the prefectural organization?

TM: Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah.

RP: In the United States?

TM: Yeah, uh-huh.

RP: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

RP: And so your father settled, he came to the United States and the first thing he did was find work on the railroad?

TM: No. He went to Idaho. Landed in San Francisco in 1906, earthquake? When they had the earthquake. So nobody to check on him, immigration and all that. And he went to work on a restaurant and things like that. But he knew there was not much future in that so he went to Idaho, became a sheep herder. He lived in a covered wagon herding sheep. Yeah.

RP: Did he tell you any stories about that?

TM: Oh, yeah, he told me stories about that. About he was involved with... well, he had his dog taking care of the sheep and the dog was, came back hurt one day and had a fight with a coyote or something. And, things like that, yeah. And then I guess he got tired of that life, then he went to Utah and the coal mines.

RP: And that was, was that at Park City, too?

TM: Oh, I don't know what part of Utah he stayed at but that's where he stayed, I mean, he did, worked as a coal miner. And then my, one of my mother's cousin, he, they came from a pretty good family, so he came here to, for education. But he ran out of money and he went to the coal mine and he met my father. And he told my father, "I'm going back to Japan. I'm gonna find you a wife." So, my mother was a "picture bride."

RP: And your mother came from the same village or?

TM: No, she came from Esumi.

RP: Oh, Esumi.

TM: Esumi, yeah.

RP: How do you spell that?

TM: E-S-U-M... Esu, Esu, mi.

RP: I.

TM: M-I. Yeah. Esumi.

RP: And where is that located?

TM: Not too far from Shimozato. You know, Shimozato is here and then Kushimoto, that's a peninsula, and it's on this side, not too far away.

RP: So the cousin was kind of a go-between, or the baishakunin.

TM: Yeah, yeah. So she came as a "picture bride," yeah.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

RP: And what do you know about her background in Japan?

TM: Oh, quite a bit because in 1930 we went to Japan to meet the grandparents. But we didn't do too much with my father's side. We stayed at my mother's side of the family. And we stayed there... in 1930, I was eight years old and we stayed for seven months. Uh-huh.

RP: What do you remember most vividly about your experience in Japan?

TM: Oh, I met all my aunts and uncles and I went to school there, Japanese school, yeah.

RP: And that was your first exposure to the Japanese language or you, had you already...

TM: No, in Terminal Island we all spoke Japanese. So, yeah, we spoke as... even when we got to Japan we didn't have too much trouble speaking Japanese. I guess our Japanese was very crude because it's a fisherman, fisherman's language. [Laughs]

RP: Uh-huh. Yeah. Did you get a chance to travel a little bit, too?

TM: Well, after that I went to Japan four times. Let's see, my first trip was in, I don't know, about '80, '85. Then I went, yeah, four times I went to Japan. But I've never gone to any other country. I've been to Alaska. That's about the only traveling, yeah.

RP: So on this trip in 1930, your mother, your father, you and your sister went?

TM: Oh, in 1985?

RP: No, the 1930 trip.

TM: Oh, yeah. All, all five kids yeah. There were five of us kids. My younger sister was, I guess, a year, year old. Yeah.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

RP: Why don't we go ahead and mention your siblings.

TM: Oh.

RP: Maybe by order of age?

TM: Uh-huh. Well the first sister, my older sister, is Chizuko. And then I came in second. And then my next brother was Itsei. And then my third brother, he name was Masazumi. Uh-huh.

RP: And his English name was Michael.

TM: Mike, yeah. I don't know where he picked that up. [Laughs] And then my younger sister's name was Noriko.

RP: And of all your brothers and sisters, who did you feel most close to when you were growing up?

TM: Well, in camp, I was close to my second brother, yeah. Because, well, we were two years' difference in age, yeah.

RP: Itsei?

TM: Itsei, yeah. What a name huh? Itsei.

RP: That's spelled the same way as Issei?

TM: No, Itsei.

RP: Oh, I-T-S-E-I. Okay.

TM: Itsei.

RP: Itsei.

TM: My father has ideas of different things like in names. Like my other brother's name, Masazumi, and...

RP: Can you share with us some of the meanings of those names if you know?

TM: Huh?

RP: Do you know the meanings of, of some of those names?

TM: No. No. I just know the meaning of my own name.

RP: What is it?

TM: Yeah, Takeshi? Means to be strong. [Laughs] Yeah.

RP: Yeah. So would it, would the, was it your father who named the kids or your mother?

TM: Yeah, my father probably named, yeah.

RP: And I don't think we got your mother's name.

TM: My mother's name?

RP: Yeah.

TM: Hide.

RP: Hide.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: For, short for Hideko?

TM: No. Her name was Hide.

RP: H-I-D-E?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Tell us a little bit about her. What do you remember about Hide, your mother?

TM: Oh, my mother? Well, she grew up in a pretty good family, see. The family was, had a... what do you call it? There were doctors in the family. And so she got, I don't know, she didn't go to high school. She just went to middle school and then... but she never went to work after that. She just lived...

RP: She came over here and started a family?

TM: Well, nineteen... she came here in 1920 or 1921. Uh-huh.

RP: And your, your father at that time was working in Park City?

TM: Yeah. No, I don't know whether it was Park City but one of the coal mines anyway. Uh-huh.

RP: Did, did your parents ever share with you how difficult their early life was in America?

TM: Not too much. Not too much, yeah. Because we grew up pretty... we weren't deprived of anything too much. No, we lived a pretty normal life. But, I know we moved around a lot.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

RP: Do you have any memories at all of Park City, growing up there?

TM: No. None at all.

RP: Too young.

TM: Yeah.

RP: Uh-huh. So after Park City the family moved back to California?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Where did you settle?

TM: Terminal Island.

RP: Your father took up fishing?

TM: Yeah. Because he had a lot of countrymen that were fishing. So he would get on their boat. But when he got there it's, they were, he had a place to go. Yeah. And then my mother would be working in the cannery.

RP: There were, I think, four canneries at, on the island.

TM: Yeah.

RP: Do you remember which one she worked at?

TM: No, I don't remember.

RP: Did your father ever, ever own his own boat or he just...

TM: No. No, he was one of the crew members, yeah.

RP: One of the crew.

TM: Uh-huh. And, the, everybody on the boat was from Esumi. You know, my mother's family's... yeah.

RP: So he felt very, sort of a kinship with everybody there.

TM: Yeah, right, right.

RP: Did he ever tell you about some of his trips going fishing? How far would...

TM: Oh, they were daily fishermen. They didn't go a long distance. You know they would, they were fishing just locally, yeah.

RP: And what were they after? Do you...

TM: Huh?

RP: What kind of fish were they...

TM: Oh, they were fishing mackerel, sardines, and... not the big fish.

RP: Did you ever go out with your dad on a fishing boat?

TM: No. I hated fishing. I despised living in Terminal Island.

RP: What was it about that?

TM: Oh, it smelled. [Laughs]

RP: Anything else that was kind of repugnant about, about the community? Was it too... some people say it was very "Japanesey."

TM: Uh-huh. Oh, yeah.

RP: And...

TM: But it was good playground. We all had friends and none of us have to work. You know, we grew up just playing. And, oh, we lived there 'til I was eight years old. So that's only, what, four years?

RP: Four years.

TM: And then we went to Japan, 1930. Yeah. Uh-huh.

RP: Do you remember, when you lived in Terminal Island, did you live in housing provided by the cannery?

TM: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

RP: Small rooms? Remember much about it?

TM: I don't know. It didn't bother me. [Laughs]

RP: Uh-huh. You were into play.

TM: Yeah.

RP: And you attended kindergarten in...

TM: Yeah, well, I showed you the picture. I think I went there 'til third grade, yeah.

RP: But your most vivid memory of Terminal Island is the smell?

TM: Yeah. [Laughs] And I never wanted to be a fisherman, yeah.

RP: That cured you.

TM: Yeah.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

RP: Where did you, where did the family move to next?

TM: Oh, after that we went to Japan in 1930. And we came back and my father had a house built in Costa Mesa.

RP: Built?

TM: Yeah. They built... he had his friend -- some of 'em were carpenters, old time -- so he built this home in Costa Mesa, three-bedroom home. Yeah. He wanted to try farming. Yeah, I guess he got tired of fishing. [Laughs]

RP: Where did he find the money to build a house?

TM: Oh, it didn't cost too much, couple hundred dollars. Yeah. This is 1929, 1930, yeah.

RP: And so he tried his hand at farming. Was it mostly truck farming or...

TM: Yeah, truck farming. You know, the tomatoes and stuff, what you call truck farming.

RP: And he leased land because he was --

TM: Yeah right.

RP: -- he was not capable of becoming a naturalized citizen.

TM: Right.

RP: Uh-huh. What do you remember about that part of your life, growing up on a farm?

TM: Oh, very busy. Yeah, I had to, I was eight years old, ten years old. I used to help him cultivate the field and things like that, yeah. It was work for me. [Laughs]

RP: Were you using any tractors or were you using horses?

TM: Oh, no, no. Just the horse, horse and hand equipment.

RP: What, were there specific crops that he would grow at certain times of the year?

TM: Yeah, tomato and strawberry, peas, beans, and things like that.

RP: You said he, he was trying his hand at farming. How successful was he?

TM: Just made a living.

RP: Scraped by?

TM: I don't know. My father never... I guess money didn't mean too much to him. He just made a living out of everything he did, yeah.

RP: Like you said, you never seemed like you were in want of anything?

TM: No.

RP: You always had --

TM: Yeah.

RP: -- enough to survive.

TM: Yeah.

RP: Uh-huh. Were you living in an area where there were other Japanese farmers around you?

TM: Oh, yeah.

RP: Mostly a farming community?

TM: There were quite a few Japanese at that time living in Costa Mesa. Yeah.

RP: So you had kids to play with there?

TM: Oh, yeah.

RP: And without the smell of the fish.

TM: Yeah, right. [Laughs]

RP: Was that a happy time for you on the farm?

TM: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

RP: Where did you go to school, Tak?

TM: Where?

RP: Yeah.

TM: At that time? In Costa Mesa? I went to elementary school, Lindberg Elementary School.

RP: Lindberg?

TM: Uh-huh. And... yeah, I went there. Yeah, I, up to sixth grade it was one of these just a small type of school that...

RP: The typical one-room schoolhouse?

TM: Yeah, right, right. And my son's wife's relative, they live in Costa Mesa... they live in Huntington Beach but they know the area. And they tell me the school is still there, yeah. I asked them about that school and they said that school is still there. Yeah. And they knew about the school, yeah.

KP: Can I ask a question? So, when you were in Terminal Island, you spoke primarily Japanese. And then, and then you went to Japan and your Japanese language skills...

TM: Yeah...

KP: And then when you moved to Costa Mesa did your language change? Did you find yourself speaking English more?

TM: Yeah, except at home. Yeah.

KP: And how, were you, were you up to par in English at that time? I mean, could you...

TM: Yeah.

KP: Did you have any problems talking?

TM: Yeah, I don't know. You know in Terminal Island, you were kinda bilingual. Whatever came out easier, that's what we spoke. [Laughs] Oh, like you say, "Oh, you dumb guy." In Japanese you say, "You bakatare." You know, so whatever comes out that's what you, in Terminal Island that's what it was. Yeah.

RP: How, how far did you have to walk to school in Costa Mesa?

TM: Not too far. Maybe five to six blocks. Yeah.

RP: But you said that your, your father conversed in English pretty well.

TM: Pretty well. Yeah, he understand, and he wrote in English. Self-taught, yeah.

RP: What, as far as religion, what denomination or...

TM: Oh, my father was a Zen, Zen Buddhist. And my mother was a Shinto. You know Shinto? Yeah. That's the emperor's religion, Shinto. Yeah, my mother's family was a Shinto, yeah.

RP: And were they pretty devout about their faith?

TM: No, no.

RP: But you still, you celebrate American holidays as well as any Japanese holidays?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Which ones do you remember?

TM: Well, there's not too many Japanese holidays, huh? Just the New Years. [Laughs]

RP: Just the New Years. How about Boy's Day?

TM: No, no. You know like, I know other families used to, they used to fly these kites and things like that on Boys Day and... no, we never got to that extreme, I guess.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

RP: From Costa Mesa, where did the family move next? What happened to the farming operation in Costa Mesa?

TM: Well, I guess my father got tired of it. [Laughs] We moved to Redondo Beach. He wanted to try a retail grocery, so that's what we went into.

RP: So he bought a, he bought an existing store --

TM: Yeah,

RP: -- or did he start one himself?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Do you remember the name of the market?

TM: Yeah, T & H, T & H Market, yeah.

RP: T & H.

TM: Yeah. T & H, yeah.

RP: How did he come up with that?

TM: Well the former owner had that name T & H. So we kept that name.

RP: What type of store was it?

TM: Well, it was grocery, meat, produce... so my father would go to the market, on Ninth Street, Los Angeles. You know about?

RP: The produce market?

TM: Yeah. And then after I started to drive, I used to go to the market. And then go to school after that.

RP: Oh, so you picked up the produce for him?

TM: Yeah, right.

RP: And you brought it back to the store and went to school. So that meant you had to get up pretty early in the morning.

TM: Yeah.

RP: Like what time would you get up?

TM: Three, four o'clock in the morning. Yeah.

RP: And what did you have to drive? Did you have a truck or...

TM: Yeah, kind of a pickup, pickup truck.

RP: Was the market, was the market set up for catering to Japanese people or was it strictly kind of a general market?

TM: General market, yeah. Wholesale market. You'd buy your fruits at different market and then the vegetable was all outdoor type. I guess these local farmers used to go there and sell their product.

RP: So you'd buy it right from them.

TM: Yeah, uh-huh. And then there were lots of farmers right here, truck farmers on Prairie Avenue. You know where that is? On 182nd. So we used to go there and buy a lot of vegetables there.

RP: Oh, right out of the fields.

TM: Yeah. Uh-huh.

RP: And then you just bring 'em back to the store.

TM: Yeah, uh-huh.

RP: Did you do any, did you work in the store at all as you were growing up?

TM: Oh, yeah. I came, helped set up the, the produce. Then I would, I would go to school. Yeah. But my parents allowed me to stay late at school and like play football and I played basketball and... a lotta the kids, Japanese kids, they didn't get to do that. They had to come home and work right, farmers, yeah.

RP: Or go to Japanese school.

TM: Yeah.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

TM: Well, we went to Japanese school on Saturdays. Yeah.

RP: And where, where was that school?

TM: Right in Torrance.

RP: Was it part of a church or a...

TM: No, individual.

RP: Individual school? Most of the schools were financed by the parents --

TM: I think so, yeah.

RP: -- who had donated money and paid the teachers.

TM: Yeah.

RP: What do you, what are your remembrances of that Japanese school? What were you taught?

TM: Oh.

RP: How far did you get?

TM: Oh, I went to... well we, we calculate how far did you get by what book you... I went to Book Twelve. In other words, just about all the way, yeah. But I can't read or write, I mean, you know, just speak, speak quite fluently. Like I go to Japan, I managed to get around.

RP: Was the emphasis on language or did you also have classes on history and culture and was there any, ever any sort of, sort of emperor worshipping that went, went on there? Bowing to the emperor's picture or...

TM: Oh, no. Uh-huh. No. See my father was, I don't know, he, he was really different. He, I don't know how to... he had his mindset. Once he got here he never, he never wanted to go back to Japan. That's why in 1930 when we went back, five kids and my mother, my father didn't go.

RP: Oh, he didn't? That was his statement.

TM: Yeah. He left the country and he just didn't want to go back.

RP: Did he have any relatives or other family members who came to the United States?

TM: Oh, yeah. He had an older brother and... so we had cousins in Costa Mesa, and they were farming in Costa Mesa. I guess that's one of the reasons why my father decided to go to Costa Mesa, Yeah, uh-huh. Then I had a aunt that came from Japan. She was, she was living here. But she had no children. She... yeah.

RP: What was her name?

TM: Misaye.

RP: Misaye.

TM: Misaye, yeah. we used to call her Misaye-obasan.

RP: So you attended junior high school in...

TM: Redondo Beach.

RP: Redondo Beach.

TM: Uh-huh. Yeah, high school in Redondo Beach, yeah.

RP: Tell us about your high school years. Was it predominately sports was kind of what your focus in high school?

TM: Yeah, right. Not too much studying. [Laughs] So I don't have any, anything special as far as, or...

RP: So you made it on the junior varsity team...

TM: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

RP: In football?

TM: Uh-huh. And then junior varsity in basketball, too, uh-huh.

RP: What position did you play in both of those sports?

TM: Oh, in football I played half-back, yeah. In basketball I played kind of a forward, a small forward, but I used to do all the shooting. [Laughs]

<End Segment 10> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

RP: And what was your... did you go to school with all kinds of other ethnic groups? How was... was Redondo High School sort of a mixed group of kids?

TM: Not too much. It was mostly Caucasian people. We had one black, black going to that school. But we had a lot of Japanese going to that school because they all, all the parents were farming over there by Prairie and 182nd and there used to be the red car, streetcar. They ride that streetcar and come to Redondo Beach, it used to come to Redondo Beach. And like even in our, I lived, we lived on Torrance and Hawthorne Boulevard. And on Torrance Boulevard there used to be a Greyhound bus, so we used to go to school on the Greyhound bus. The school would give us the, the...

RP: The money for it?

TM: Uh-huh, yeah.

RP: How long a trip was that?

TM: Not very, maybe half an hour.

RP: Did you ride the red car, too?

TM: No, no.

RP: That was the, the last sort of rapid transit in the city of Los Angeles. Well, now there's trains and sort of things but that was a great line.

TM: Yeah.

RP: So, did you have any, when you were growing up and attending high school, did you have any plans at all about what was gonna happen next as far as a...

TM: Not much, not much. [Laughs]

RP: Just a... take it one day at a time?

TM: Yeah, yeah. Nothing in, nothing special. Going to school, higher education... no, I didn't have that in mind, yeah.

KP: Can I ask a question? Did your, did your family have like the bath? The...

RP: Ofuro?

TM: Ofuro?

RP: Yeah.

TM: Oh, yeah.

KP: In every place you lived or...

TM: Well in Costa Mesa we had a real nice ofuro because we had a nice home. And my neighbors, they were Japanese. And they would have a, just a tub and they would have to... I think we even had propane. We had, what is it? Tank, gas tank to heat up. Yeah, so we did pretty good.

RP: Pretty good.

TM: Our neighbors, the Japanese, they, they had to use wood to heat up their bath and so forth, yeah.

RP: And you had the gas.

TM: Huh?

RP: And you had gas.

TM: Yeah. We had those, I don't know, those tanks.

RP: What was the... who, who went in the bath first? Was it the parents who would go in the bath first? Or, was there any kind of order?

TM: No. Whoever... yeah, we didn't have that. Yeah, in Japan they do that. The men, men goes in first. Then the ladies goes in last and... yeah, no, we didn't have that. We were...

RP: Informal.

TM: Yeah. Whoever's ready... you just...

RP: So you graduated from Redondo Beach High School?

TM: Uh-huh. Yeah, Redondo High, yeah.

RP: And you also had some letters, right? Some junior varsity letters?

TM: Oh, yeah. In basketball and football, yeah.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

RP: So what did you do after graduation, Tak?

TM: Oh, my father decided the store wasn't doing too, too well. So he decided to go back fishing. So we moved back to fishing in nineteen... let's see, war broke out in '41, huh. Yeah, about nineteen... yeah, early part of '41 we went back to Terminal Island. That's when I graduated, winter of '41. Then we went back to Terminal Island. Then at Terminal Island I got this job at San Pedro working in a market, fruit stand. Yeah. I was working there and in fact I was working this one Sunday and that's when the war broke out. And I couldn't go home for three days because, see, went to work by a ferry, ferryboat. And if you went on a car you had to go roundabout way. And, and the bridge they had now, they didn't have that. See, they had that drawbridge.

RP: Drawbridge.

TM: Yeah. So I couldn't take the car to go to work. But when the war broke out, I was working for a Japanese family. So I went over to his house, slept there for three days.

RP: Do you remember the soldiers there at the ferry dock?

TM: Oh, yeah, yeah.

RP: They wouldn't let anybody --

TM: No.

RP: -- go back. Huh. What was your reactions to the, to the news when you heard Pearl Harbor was bombed?

TM: Oh, not any, not a real big thing it was just a surprising thing, huh. Yeah. I had no... because what happened politically or... it doesn't bother me too much. Like this election, some people would say, "God, we got a black president." Things like that don't bother me. I don't get too involved or think about -- not involved -- but think about things like that. What's, whatever is gonna be is gonna be. That's my attitude yeah.

RP: So you were finally able to get back on the island?

TM: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

RP: And can you describe what it was like in the days and weeks after Pearl Harbor on the island?

TM: Well, I still went to work after that. I would take the ferry and go to work and in fact, I went to the... you know where the Federal Prison is? A JACL group went over there to interpret when all the Isseis were rounded up. I went with that group as an interpreter, yeah.

RP: That was, was your father one of those people?

TM: Yeah. He got taken in in February.

RP: February of '42.

TM: Yeah.

RP: You said that he was involved in these prefectural organizations?

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: Was there any other connections or community activities that he was part of, too?

TM: No.

RP: Just that.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: That, that was enough.

TM: Yeah.

RP: Do you remember the FBI coming to your...

TM: Oh, yeah. Knocking on the door.

RP: Tell us about what you remember about that experience.

TM: Well, I don't know, it seemed like these FBI guys were real big guys. [Laughs] They came to the door, knocking on the door, I don't know, late at night. And they say, "We have to, we have to take your dad in." And, I figured since he's gonna be taken, I told my mom to pack a little suitcase for him and so he had a few change of clothes. Yeah, so he, he went with a change of clothes. And I know when I was interpreting at the prison there, there was a lot of Isseis that had no change of clothes. They just had what they had on, see. But my dad had a few change of clothes. Uh-huh.

RP: So was there an expectation that, on the part of your father and you that he would be picked up?

TM: You mean before he was...

RP: Yeah, was... I mean, other Isseis were being picked up...

TM: Yeah, well, see, I have an uncle that, that did what do you call it? Heavy duty fishing. He went away for so many days. So when they came back, the whole harbor was blocked, blocked off so they got picked up first, see. But like my father and them, their boat, they fish nearby, so they came back in. So it wasn't, so it was, it was, it was time for him, before he got picked up, so that was in February he got picked up. But like my uncle, they got picked up, he had to go right away, see. Yeah. I remember taking my auntie to... they had a CCC camp in Tujunga... I even took her to visit him. Yeah.

RP: Tell us a little bit more about this experience... you were the, you were the interpreter for a number of these Issei guys who had been rounded up.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: Tell us some more about that. What do you...

TM: Well, there's not too much I can remember about that.

RP: What was the, what was the mood like, if you can recall it? Was it one large room and were you, were the interrogating these guys and you were interpreting for, for the interrogation or...

TM: No, actually we just talking to 'em directly, you know? It wasn't one of these single room investigations. It was just all lined up.

RP: All lined up? And there was FBI people there or military people?

TM: Yeah.

RP: And they were asking them questions?

TM: Uh-huh.

KP: Do you remember any, any of the questions that were asked or what, what kind of things were they asking? Do you remember at all?

TM: Well, the main thing was whether they had any affiliation with, the Japan. Because that's what they were concerned about, because on the fishing boat they had a shortwave radio and things like that. Yeah. So that would be the main question that they asked.

KP: Do you think that the, the Issei understood what they were being asked in terms of communication?

TM: No I don't, I don't think so. I don't think they were... because they, they had no idea what was going on. Just because they're fishermen, they got picked up.

RP: Where was your father sent to?

TM: Bismarck. Bismarck, North Dakota. Yeah.

RP: So on the roster sheet here it says he was paroled. Maybe he went to Bismarck first and then he was paroled from Fort Lincoln?

TM: No, he came back from Bismarck.

RP: He came back from Bismarck?

TM: Uh-huh. Yeah.

RP: Huh. So did you, did you see him in that, that time that you were interpreting? Did you get a chance to see him before he went?

TM: No, no. Uh-uh.

RP: What did you... did you have any thoughts about, about what was gonna happen to him or...

TM: No, you're just taking in, there was... everybody was taken so you just accepted it.

RP: Did you get letters from him?

TM: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

RP: What did he say about his treatment or incarceration?

TM: Oh, it was, it was all in Japanese, written to my mother so...

RP: So you weren't supposed to read it?

TM: No. It's not, it's not that, it's just that I didn't understand and there were, there were a mass of people and when there's a mass like that and, and you're one of 'em, you're not, you're not concerned too much. Now, if you were an individual, you really wonder what's gonna happen and... when it's a group of people I don't think you... yeah, it matters too much. That's the way, that's the way I accepted it.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

KP: So after your father was arrested and taken away, your mother continued to work for the cannery? Did she still work in the cannery at that time?

TM: Uh-huh.

KP: And you worked? Was your older brother there?

TM: Yeah. I went to work and then my sister, my oldest sister, she worked in San Pedro, too, see.

RP: Oh, what did she to?

TM: Worked in the produce market there.

RP: So you kinda picked up the slack a little bit for your dad not being there?

TM: Yeah, uh-huh.

RP: This, then the next shock was the forty-eight hour evacuation of the island.

TM: Oh, I'd left before that.

RP: How soon before?

TM: At least a month or a month and a half.

RP: What were the... why did you leave?

TM: Huh?

RP: Why did you leave the island?

TM: Oh, I figured they're gonna...

RP: Kick you out?

TM: Yeah. See I was, what, twenty years old. And I don't know, I just had a --

RP: A hunch?

TM: -- feeling like that. So, and there were five of us and then my mother. Then I had to take care of my auntie. She was by herself. And then there's other families that the father was gone and they had little kids. I took sixteen people with me and I moved to L.A. I moved to L.A., I found a home there, empty home, and we all lived there. Sixteen in a two-bedroom place. [Laughs] Yeah.

RP: Were you able to take most of your personal belongings with you or did you...

TM: No, not too much.

RP: Did you sell things or store items?

TM: No, we didn't sell anything. We just left it. We just left. Only thing I kept was my car. Yeah.

RP: Was that the '38?

TM: Yeah, '38 Chrysler, yeah. That's the only thing. They offered me $100 for the car. I mean, they allowed me $100.

RP: Who?

TM: The government.

RP: The government wanted to buy the car?

TM: Yeah, well, yeah, they allow you that... I don't know what the other guys got, but, they only allow you $100, so. And where I moved to, I met this Filipino guy, like I was telling you about that. And I told him, "We have to leave. We have to go to a camp. Can I leave my car here?" And I thought I'd take a chance with him rather than get rid of the car for $100.

RP: So, were there other people that were also leaving Terminal Island early?

TM: Early? I don't know whether they were or not.

RP: And what part of Los Angeles did you end up finding this house?

TM: Uptown. Do you know the uptown?

RP: Uptown?

TM: Uptown, uh-huh. Normandy, Normandy, and Olympic, that area.

RP: Just to the south of downtown?

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: So you weren't there very long before...

TM: Yeah. And then, so there's sixteen of us living there so I found another house. I moved my family and my aunt to another house and these other people were staying at the original place.

RP: That must have been a pretty hectic scene.

TM: Oh, yeah. [Laughs]

RP: Were people sleeping on the floors and...

TM: Yeah, things like that. Yeah. Uh-huh. And then when... I guess that, that area went to some other camp. I guess they went to Santa Anita or someplace. And when the notice came out that the Terminal Island was evacuating to Manzanar, I signed up to go to Manzanar. That's how we ended up in Manzanar, yeah.

RP: And did you, did you come up by train?

TM: Uh-huh, uh-huh. I think we, we came up on the train to Barstow. So, and then on the bus.

RP: Oh. Some people came into Lone Pine.

TM: Huh?

RP: Some people came were brought by train to Lone Pine?

TM: Lone Pine?

RP: Lone Pine. And then the bus went into camp.

TM: Oh, really?

RP: Yeah. So were twenty years old and you were aware of the fact that you were an American citizen and that all Japanese were being singled out and being sent to camp. Did you have any deep feelings, strong feelings about, "What about our rights?" What about...

TM: No. Like I say, I don't, I don't think about things like that too much. Only, the only problem I had while I was in camp was my father was released and came back to camp and then they started drafting the Niseis and, r volunteering, some of 'em volunteered. Well, that's when I had a problem. Like my father, he felt that there's three boys in the family and he figured if we're gonna split up, we might as well stay together and go to Tule, Tule Lake, sign "no-no." So my brother, Itsei, and myself were, we were of age, so we signed "no-no." And, and Mike was still in school so they didn't, they didn't sign up. They didn't sign that question. And then just about that time they start moving the people, transferring them to Tule Lake. And I told my father. I said, "We might split up anyway so there's no sense going to Tule Lake." So I changed my, what is it, to "no-yes," or "yes-no," one of 'em, that I would, I'm not gonna volunteer to the service but I will remain loyal to the country. So, I changed and so did my brother so we were able to go on seasonal leave and all that. Yeah. That was the only problem I had. Isseis had the idea about family staying together and...

<End Segment 14> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

RP: What block did you, did you live in and when you first arrived at Manzanar?

TM: Block 11, yeah. But when I first went there, Block 11, I still had these friends with me so we all moved into to Block 11, what is it, Barrack 10, and room so and so. And then after that we start, they start separating the families, so we ended up at block, Block 2... Block 11, Barrack 2, Room 3. I think that's what it was.

RP: What were your initial impressions of the camp?

TM: Well, being, being twenty years old, I mean, I just thought that this was the easy life. You don't have to work. [Laughs] I didn't, I didn't feel no hardship or nothing. I just went along. You... they, they call for meal. We just go there and eat, eat your breakfast, lunch and all that. It doesn't, it didn't bother me too much actually. So I know some, some people really regretted that, but....

RP: You had your friends there so you had a chance to get involved in sports in camp?

TM: Not too much. It was mostly the younger kids that were involved with sports. I played a little basketball and things like that but not too much.

RP: Did you provide any guidance or leadership for some of the younger kids in your block?

TM: No, no. I wasn't into too much of that stuff, yeah.

RP: Uh-huh. Did you... you said that it was kind of an easy life. You didn't have to work, but did you eventually work in the camp?

TM: Well, I guess if everybody had to work. I was wondering what the easiest job I could get. So I picked the mailman. You deliver mail to so many blocks and you're all through. [Laughs]

RP: So how many blocks would you deliver mail to?

TM: I think a couple blocks, that's all. Yeah.

RP: So you would go down to the post office and pick up the mail or would they deliver it to the block?

TM: Well, yeah, we had our own post office. I guess they would bring the mail and somebody'd be sorting it out and then, and then you get your, say you were covering Block 10 and then 11, and that's what you got and you just delivered it. And that's... it was easy, easy job.

RP: Door to door.

TM: Uh-huh. [Laughs]

RP: Did you get to meet some people, too?

TM: You mean...

RP: Folks in Block Ten and Eleven. People that you didn't know already that you struck up friendships with?

TM: Yeah. Well, I didn't associate with them too much. And I wasn't into sports. I had one good friend. He's in Seabrook and he's about my age. He's from Terminal Island. And I, every chance I get, I would see him. But he's in Seabrook on... I met him in Salt Lake City a couple times and, and we would go up to Idaho and we, we went fishing. Yeah. And then when I go to Seabrook, he has a boat and we go fishing over there. Yeah. That's about the only... I have another friend from Terminal Island. He's my age and he's in Seabrook and he had a real bad stroke and he's still living, but...

<End Segment 15> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

RP: This is tape two of our interview with Tak Minato. Tak, we were talking about some of your experiences in camp, one of which was you had the opportunity to leave the camp for a while and go to Montana and pick sugar beets?

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: Tell us a little bit about that. Why you decided to go out and where did you go and who did you go with?

TM: Oh, I guess when you're in the camp like that you're, you're always thinking about you want to go out. So, we got together some of my friends and I think the first group we had ten, ten together and we went as a group and went to Montana, place called Glasgow, Glasgow, Montana, about fifty miles south of Canada. And that was the worst place to go sugar beet. [Laughs] We did terrible. We didn't make any money. People went to Idaho, they did real well.

RP: Why is that?

TM: Well, they had big sugar beets, like that, so they had more poundage and, but we were topping sugar beet like that carrot size.

RP: It didn't quite add up very quick.

TM: Yeah, right.

RP: What about your living conditions? Did you live on this...

TM: On this seasonal work? Oh, it was good. They provided us with a house. Yeah.

RP: And one of you guys had to do the cooking?

TM: Yeah, my brother, he liked, my younger brother, he was a cook. Yeah, he, he wanted, he liked to cook. And he was the youngest in the group and he did all the cooking. Yeah.

RP: Who else besides you and your brother were in the group? Could you name off a few names for us?

TM: Oh, yeah. Isao Kikuchi and I think you mentioned Dr. Kikuchi? Well, that was his son, Isao Kikuchi.

[Interruption]

RP: Tak, you were just sharing with us some of the other guys who were in this group.

TM: Uh-huh. And then the Zoriki brothers, Tom and Mike Zoriki. And then there were Benny Yoshinaga, Curt, Curt Yamamoto, Joe Uchiyama... can't remember his first name, it's... last name was Ohashi. I don't know how many that is. That's about it.

RP: Yeah. Did you... I know you were working most of this time but did you have any, a little time at all to go into a town or...

TM: Yeah. We go into town every once in a while and we went to a town called Malta, Malta, Montana. And they had a restaurant there so we go over there to eat rice and then there was sisters working there. You know, I mean, I guess the parents owned the restaurant. We met them.

RP: They were Japanese?

TM: Japanese, yeah.

RP: Oh, how nice. So you were welcomed at least there.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: Did you have any negative, any negative reactions to your being in Montana? Anybody who...

TM: No, no.

RP: And how long were you in, up there?

TM: Four, four months, I think, September to December, uh-huh.

RP: So you went out in the first summer in camp, 1942?

TM: Yeah. Uh-huh.

RP: And so how did, how did that feel to be out of camp?

TM: [Laughs] Well, didn't feel any different. I felt like camp was... it wasn't restricted or nothing.

RP: Anything else about the trip there and the work that you recall?

TM: No, not much.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

RP And then you returned in December to Manzanar.

TM: Yeah. And then the following spring, we went to Idaho for beet, beet thinning.

RP: That work out a little better financially?

TM: Yeah, I guess so. Uh-huh.

RP: Did you go out with the same group of guys?

TM: No, no. Different guys, yeah.

RP: Was there anything on the first trip that you brought back with you that you couldn't get in camp, like chocolate or candy or...

TM: No, I think in camp we had just about everything we wanted, huh?

RP: Some of the guys who went out on furlough said they used to try to sneak whisky or alcohol back into camp.

TM: Yeah, well, I wasn't into that. [Laughs] Yeah.

RP: Where did you thin beets in Idaho?

TM: Filer, place called Filer, near Twin Falls.

RP: And just a little ways from Twin Falls was another War Relocation Center called Minidoka.

TM: Yeah, uh-huh.

RP: Did you meet up with any guys from that camp?

TM: No. But I visited Minidoka before. See, what year was I there? I went there and I'vr been to Topaz.

RP: Visiting friends?

TM: No, in Minidoka I didn't have any friends because they were mostly...

RP: Seattle.

TM: Vancouver people and...

RP: So what was the purpose of your visit in Minidoka?

TM: What was my what?

RP: The purpose of your visit to Minidoka.

TM: Oh, I don't know whether I had my car out that year. And just visit, yeah, what the camps are like. But in, in Idaho, my brother and I, we used to go fishing over... trout fishing. Yeah. I picked up, that's where I picked up trout fishing. I didn't like that ocean fishing, but trout fishing wasn't bad so we picked that, picked up that, yeah.

RP: That was on this furlough that you went on?

TM: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

RP: And then you returned again to Manzanar.

TM: Yeah, uh-huh.

RP: Uh-huh.

TM: Let's see. Yeah, returned again, yeah. Then my third trip was went to Salt Lake, I mean Utah, fruit picking. That's when I had my car.

RP: That's right. And you shared a very interesting story with me about the car. How were you able to get the car from Los Angeles back to camp?

TM: Yeah. I had my brother talk to Mr. Frizzell and, and he drove the car into Manzanar and the car was left there until I went out again to Idaho for fruit picking. And we, we went out on a bus and somebody drove the car over to Reno, yeah. And from Reno we drove out to Provo, Provo, Utah. Yeah. And we did fruit picking in Provo, peach, pears, different fruit. And then after the fruit season was over we went to Idaho again for potato picking. Yeah. And when I was in Idaho picking potato I got a, I got a letter from my sister saying she's getting married. "So if you could make it, come home, come down to Manzanar." So I drove, I drove from Filer, near Twin Falls, to Reno. That was kind of a scary trip, though. I drove at night because I stopped at a gas station and they wouldn't sell me gasoline.

RP: Because you were Japanese American?

TM: Huh?

RP: Because of your Japanese American heritage?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Was that the only time when you encountered a situation like that in all your travels out of camp?

TM: Oh, no. Another friend and I went to, we went to a restaurant... and we went to a restaurant and we ordered a hamburger and a malt and the waitress waited on us and you know how the old time restaurant had a counter in front of the kitchen and the guy would put the food on top there and well, he brought it out I guess he saw two Japanese sitting there so he yelled at us, "What are you doing here?" And he said, "Well, didn't you see the sign outside?" And we read the sign. It said, "No colored allowed." [Laughs] So we had to walk out without, without eating our hamburger.

KP: What town was that? Where was that?

TM: That was, I don't know. Utah. I don't know what town it was.

RP: And you just left rather than making a scene?

TM: Oh, yeah. I don't, I don't raise fuss about things. Well, if they want me to leave, I'll leave.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

RP: So you got back to Reno with the car but then you had to come back down to camp. You couldn't drive the car back to camp.

TM: No, I can't drive the car to camp.

RP: So what did you do with the car?

TM: So I left it at Zoriki's and he, one of the Zorikis was already out, see, I mean, relocated and that's Nevada so I guess that was legitimate. So I told him to sell the car if he has a chance. And I said, "I want $500 and if you sell it, then you keep a hundred." And he sold the car for me.

RP: And so you took the bus back down to camp?

TM: Oh, yeah, we had to take the bus back, with an escort.

RP: With an escort?

TM: Oh, yeah.

RP: Who was that? Do you remember? Was it just a Caucasian or was it a soldier or a...

TM: Oh, no. It was a Caucasian person. They escort, yeah, no, it was just another civilian person, I guess. Somebody that worked for the WRA or somethin'.

RP: WRA. So you got back to camp in time for the wedding?

TM: Uh-huh. Yeah, well, I think the wedding I didn't make, but the reception I made. Uh-huh, yeah.

KP: That's more important anyway.

RP: Yeah.

TM: Huh?

KP: That's more important anyway, the reception.

TM: Yeah, right, right. [Laughs]

RP: So, this is your older sister?

TM: Yeah, she's a year older than I am.

RP: Who did she marry?

TM: Huh?

RP: Who did she marry?

TM: She married a Terminal Island guy.

RP: She did?

TM: Yeah.

RP: What was his name?

TM: Terada. Well, his, his real name is Ryo, Ryoichi and, but he had a nickname, Duke. Everybody knows him by Duke.

RP: Was he a fisherman from, on Terminal Island?

TM: Yeah, yeah.

RP: So she, had she met him before camp?

TM: No, it wasn't one of those. Somebody fixed her up.

RP: Ah. So how was the reception?

TM: Huh?

RP: How was the wedding reception?

TM: How was it? I don't remember too much about that. It was at the mess hall, I guess. By the way, is the mess hall open?

RP: It's getting close.

TM: Oh.

RP: Yeah. Kirk worked on it quite a bit over the last five, six months. So it's... the building is, outside is entirely restored.

TM: Oh.

RP: Yeah. I don't know within maybe a year or so people will be able to go inside the mess hall.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

RP: And speaking of which, how was the food in the Block 11 mess hall?

TM: Oh, not bad. It was all Isseis cooking and I didn't, I didn't think nothing of it too much. Because as far as food, I'm not too concerned. My father, my father worked at Block 12 and my mother worked at Block 11 and my sister worked at Block 11 as a dietician.

RP: Chizu?

TM: Yeah.

RP: In the mess hall?

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: I think most of them had a dietician or somebody like that.

TM: Yeah.

RP: And your father worked in the mess hall in Block 12?

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: As a cook or a...

TM: Yeah.

RP: He was a cook?

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: And your mom worked as a... what did she do?

TM: Well, just like a waitress, I guess.

RP: Waitress. Your brother was going to school. Mike was still going to school?

TM: Yeah. And then my other brother Itsei, he was supposed to go to school. I guess he had another year to go but he didn't go to school.

RP: He kept going out with you.

TM: Yeah. Uh-huh. So he, he didn't go back to school.

RP: He never finished school?

TM: No. No, he didn't finish high school.

RP: Did he go out with you on the fruit picking trip, too?

TM: Every trip, yeah. Every trip, yeah.

RP: Well, it seems like you spent more time outside of camp than inside of camp.

TM: Oh, I don't think so. [Laughs]

RP: We'll have to add up the months and see.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

RP: The, then later on, I think it was in June of 1944, you finally decided...

TM: May.

RP: Was it May?

TM: To relocate.

RP: And why Chicago?

TM: Why Chicago? I had friends going there. So there were five of us. And we, we took the bus, the Greyhound bus, instead of taking the train. That was a miserable trip. [Laughs] It took us five days or something to Chicago at that time.

RP: Who did you go out with?

TM: One, one fellow from Terminal Island, George Tani. I don't know if you've heard that name before, but he was one of my classmate when we were younger and... and there was a guy from Santa Monica, Cole, Cole Yamada. And Mas Hama.

RP: And that was another adventure.

TM: Yeah.

RP: Going to Chicago.

TM: Yeah. You go, you go to the WRA office and they gave you $25. [Laughs]

RP: So what was, what was Chicago like? Did you get a job right away or did you just...

TM: Yeah, I mean, well, see, I picked up that dental technician job and so when I went to Chicago it was pretty easy to find a job. I started working as a dental apprentice and I worked there for a while, about a year. And then I went to, I went to Seabrook because there's five of us and my younger sister was the only one living with the parents. So I guess the folks got kind of lonesome so they wanted me to stay so I decided...

RP: You went to visit and they...

TM: Yeah, they talked me into staying. So I stayed in Seabrook.

RP: What were, what were your parents in Seabrook for work?

TM: Working at...

RP: At the plant?

TM: At the plant, yeah.

RP: Do you know what their jobs were?

TM: Well, like my mother, I guess all the women worked on the line, conveyor line. And then the men, men folks worked as a, like a saw operator. They, they do a different kind of job, like feed, feeding the line and all that kind of stuff.

RP: Uh-huh. How did, how did your parents end up going to Seabrook? Was there somebody who came to the camps and recruited them?

TM: No. I influenced them.

RP: How?

TM: I was in Chicago and I went to Seabrook. And I had some friends there, so I went to see the condition there. So I went back to Chicago and I influenced, I talked my parents into going to Seabrook. You know, that's across the country, huh? But I talked them into going there and that's how they ended up there.

RP: Huh. And so you spent how long there? A year?

TM: Oh, my whole time?

RP: Yes.

TM: Yeah, I went there in '44 and went into the army in '46. So, two years.

RP: Two years.

TM: I was in there only two years, yeah.

RP: And you worked as a dental technician...

TM: Yeah, I went into town and got myself a job as a dental technician instead of working at the plant.

RP: And for, for many, for many Isseis and other people coming out of the camps it was a pretty, kind of positive situation for them.

TM: Oh, I think that was a real good thing. Well, the pay was small but people who had a big family, all the kids went to work, their mother and father and then they... actually when they first went there, there were no rental and they provided you with all the other things like, they provided you with the coal and furniture so it was a, a good thing. I think quite a few of the family, they had a big family, they, they made money there. [Laughs] Yeah, even though the pay was about what, sixty cents or seventy cents an hour.

RP: So in your, in your thinking it was a place for people to get back on their feet again?

TM: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think my parents really enjoyed it over there. They made a lot of friends there and yeah...

<End Segment 21> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 22>

RP: After your two years in Seabrook, you were, did you volunteer? You said you volunteered?

TM: Uh-huh. I volunteered into the service, yeah.

RP: And...

KP: Quick question, you were never drafted at all?

TM: I got my draft notice, but my friends were going in, they just got out of high school. They were younger. They were about eighteen and I was twenty-four already. But they, they were going into because they wanted the GI Bill. So they were going in, so I figured, well, I might as well go in instead of... well I was not drafted because I was a "no-no" I was a "no-no" at first, see.

RP: That's right.

TM: They never drafted me. I had to...

RP: They started drafting people out of the camps in 1944.

TM: Yeah. See, I had a while. What did they call it? Four...

RP: 4-C?

TM: 4-C, 4-C classification?

RP: Yeah, you were an "alien ineligible for military service." And then on top of that you answered "no-no."

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: But they didn't, they didn't... you said you went back and you got the answers changed.

TM: Yeah.

RP: But they didn't recognize that. They still went with the "no-no."

TM: You know, they changed it. Because that's why they, they released me from...

RP: They refused to draft you because of the...

TM: Yeah.

RP: ...your initial answers.

TM: Yeah.

RP: Interesting. Just to go back on that questionnaire...

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: You had some discussions with your parents and your brothers about the answers and what they meant and that kind of thing. Do you remember other families, some of your other friends, having to deal with that situation, too, and...

TM: Yeah, well, I know some people that kept it and they went to Tule Lake.

RP: Tule Lake.

TM: Yeah, uh-huh.

RP: But there was... many people's thinking the main reason for answering "no-no" was to keep the family together.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: And as far as you can tell, your parents... you said your father never wanted to go back to Japan, so...

TM: No.

RP: That wasn't an issue.

TM: No.

RP: Okay.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 23>

RP: Tak, were you, were you around the camp when the so-called "riot" broke out?

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: And can you tell us what you remember about it and your reaction to it?

TM: Well, I was there, I was watching it. Mostly Kibeis, they were involved. And they were attacked... well, they were kind of attacking the guards and I guess the guards couldn't do nothing about it. So, I guess they shot a few people, huh? And I was way in the back side there watching it.

RP: You were watching it?

TM: Yeah. I kinda saw the whole thing, yeah.

KP: So, how many, how many guards do you think started shooting? Did you, were you, did you notice that at all?

TM: Why? Why did they start shooting?

KP: How many do you think were shooting?

TM: Well, there were quite a few of 'em. They were all lined up. Because there was a mass of people there.

RP: How far away were you from the scene?

TM: Oh, I would say about... maybe 50 feet.

RP: Not very far.

TM: Yeah.

KP: Was there any tear gas used?

TM: I don't remember that. Yeah, I don't remember any tear gas.

RP: Do you recall what the crowd... was the crowd chanting or yelling at the...

TM: Oh, yeah, they were yelling, yeah.

RP: Do you remember anything specifically that they said to the MPs or...

TM: What, what information do you have as far as that "riot," what caused it?

KP: Not very much.

RP: Well, the other...

KP: A lotta different stories.

TM: Oh.

RP: Some political tensions between JACL and the Kibei.

TM: Oh. That was one, but the main reason the "riot" was because of the, I think the administration was, some of the administration was...

RP: Black marketing...

TM: Yeah.

RP: Sugar and...

TM: Yeah, right.

RP: Did you --

TM: I think that had to do a lot with it.

RP: Do you believe that that was the case?

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: There were... administration people were doing that?

TM: Yeah, because I had friends that were working on, at Manzanar on the, on the delivery truck, on the food delivery. And, and they, they had access to the, the meat, steaks and all that. And they had preference to their, to the product. They were eating good, these guys that were working on the food truck. [Laughs]

RP: So you think maybe they were also siphoning off some things, too?

TM: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

RP: But they blamed it on the administration?

TM: [Laughs]

RP: One lady said to us, she said, "You know, It wasn't the administrators that were stealing the sugar, it was those Issei cooks who were using the sugar to, to distill certain alcoholic products." So... there's a lot of different versions and takes on the...

TM: Yeah.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 24>

TM: Well, I had a actually a distant relative, he lived in Block 3. He dug a basement and he, where he got the grape, the grapes and things like that... but he was making wine and whiskey or whatever. [Laughs]

KP: Do you remember the building he was in?

TM: Block 3 anyway.

RP: Block 3.

KP: We'll, we'll look for that.

RP: Yeah. Probably a collapsed basement. Look for the, look for the still. Interesting. So you know of people who were doing that.

TM: Yeah, things like that, yeah. He was on the food truck, I know.

RP: Oh, he was.

TM: Oh, yes. [Laughs]

RP: Well, some of the other, other things, activities that Terminal Island guys were involved in, they were involved in putting in the, the plasterboard in the rooms. You know, putting in the insulation.

TM: Oh, I thought they were linoleum mostly.

RP: They also did the linoleum, too.

TM: Oh, oh.

RP: Did you get in on any of that work?

TM: No, no. That's work.

RP: That was hard work, yeah. [Laughs] Just, just checking. But they, you know, they were very, they had a little bit of power, you know in those situations where, you know...

TM: Oh, yeah because see they had a big group. I mean...

RP: You wanted to make sure you treated them right or else they might not want to do your job very quick. So they kinda played a little favoritism.

TM: Yeah, and then later on these, well, the Yogores were the younger kids. Everybody was afraid of them because it was a group, like a gang. So, even the Manzanars, guys, were afraid of them. You've heard of that huh?

RP: Oh, yeah. Yeah. The Yogores.

TM: Yeah. You know what yogore means? Huh?

RP: Dirty one.

TM: Yeah. [Laughs]

RP: But you didn't feel like one.

TM: No, I wasn't in that. I wasn't... I had nothing to do with the Terminal Island group, actually. Yeah, because I didn't go to school with them.

RP: Uh-huh. There were, there were stories that the, that these kids would get in fights or provoke fights. After a baseball game there'd be fights and break up dances, crash parties, all kinds of good stuff.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 25>

KP: Can we get back to the, the "riot" a little bit? 'Cause we've never really talked to anybody who was actually there at the "riot" and watching what was going on.

TM: Oh.

KP: So you said you were about 50 feet away.

TM: Yeah.

KP: And it was dark at that time or...

TM: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

KP: Okay.

RP: Do you remember seeing the, you know, the MPs actually fire into the crowd?

TM: Yeah, yeah.

RP: Uh-huh.

KP: Did you think it was an order that was given to fire or?

TM: Oh, you mean to these soldiers? Oh, I don't know. It was more like a fright, huh? They were scared. I mean, you know, guys are rushing, rushing into you. These, some of these Kibeis are, they were fanatic people.

RP: Were there any shouts of "banzai" or...

TM: [Laughs]

RP: That was one of the reports that...

TM: Oh.

RP: That people "banzaied."

KP: Did you hear that at all?

TM: No. I don't remember that, yeah.

RP: What was the scene like after the shooting?

TM: Oh, after shooting it just broke up, I guess. But I figured, "I better get out of here."

KP: Did you get out of there?

TM: Well, we were way on the side so...

KP: What did you do when the shooting started?

TM: Just watched, yeah. I was away. The soldiers were lined up here and the, the "riot" was here. We were way over here, see so...

KP: Did you see a truck at all? There's talk that there was a truck that was being driven towards the soldiers. Did you see that at all?

TM: No.

<End Segment 25> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 26>

RP: You had some, you had some very strong relationships with one particular family at Manzanar, the Sakaguchis.

TM: Yeah, we were in the same block, see. But, not with the family. I just, I was a good friend with Obo, Bo's oldest brother.

RP: And he was a dentist in the camp?

TM: Yeah. He was a dentist in camp. Every one of 'em was a Bo huh? Obo, Chibo.

RP: Chibo.

TM: And then the youngest was, that's Bo.

RP: There was a Sambo, too.

TM: Oh, Sambo, yeah. He was a MD. Yeah, they were all doctors. Yeah. They were smart kids, I guess.

RP: So you went to Obo for, for dental care in the camp.

TM: Yeah. Well, the reason I went there is because these girls I knew, and then I met Obo. And, we started hanging around. And then that's when I met Fudge. Fudge used to hang around with... Fudge was in the hospital doing something and I guess that's how he knew Obo.

RP: So you, you were interested in these girls who were the dental assistants?

TM: Yeah, right, right. [Laughs]

RP: So did you ever date any of 'em, or...

TM: Oh, yeah, I used to go to dance with them. And yeah, yeah.

RP: Parties and...

TM: Uh-huh. And we used to have our own parties.

RP: Oh you did? In Block 11?

TM: No we had, we get the recreation... hey had that recreation hall in every block right. And we get one of, access to one of those and, and we used to have our own party instead of a group party.

RP: Oh, okay. Private party.

TM: Yeah.

RP: You got some records? People had records?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Loud, or a turntable and a speaker?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Oh. Neat. The dentist... you were showing me some pictures about the, the early dental office was in a barrack room.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: Uh-huh. Did, did Obo have any, other than hand tools, did he have a drill and some of his own equipment there?

TM: Yeah, they had, yeah.

RP: It was adequate enough to work on you.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: So did that influence you at all in going and becoming a dental assistant or a dental tech?

TM: Dental technician, yeah. So when I went to Chicago I just went to look for a dental technician job, yeah. And then I stayed, I stayed only a year there. Then I went to Seabrook. I worked at it for a couple years. Then I went into the service. And in the service I did that for two years. But by that time I got tired of it.

RP: Tell us about your service experience. Where did you train?

TM: Oh, I trained at Fort Dix, New Jersey. And, and so I was a dental technician. I didn't even stay to the, complete my basic training. They shipped me out to a medics in Virginia.

RP: That was Fort Lee?

TM: Yeah. Yeah.

RP: Judging from all the pictures you have in your album, you met a lot of friends, new people. And some of 'em you kept in contact with for a long time.

TM: Uh-huh.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 27>

RP: And after the service, you returned back to California?

TM: No. I went back to New Jersey.

RP: To Seabrook?

TM: Yeah, Seabrook. And then my sister, my younger, Noriko, she was out of high school. She got out of high school in '46, yeah, '46, yeah. And she went to beauty school and became a hairdresser. And so she wanted to go to a bigger city to do her work. So she says, "I want to go to Cleveland." So I said, "Okay, I'll go with you." So we went to Cleveland. So I lived in Cleveland for five years. And that's when I met Hide, in Cleveland, yeah. And we got married over there, yeah. And then we, we came back to California, and I got married in '54 and that's when we came back to California.

RP: Where did you settle?

TM: Settle?

RP: You settled in what area?

TM: Oh, L.A., yeah.

RP: Did your parents return before that time from Seabrook?

TM: Yeah. My father got sick. He had cancer so... and my brother Itsei was living here before. So we figure this is a better place to live. So he came here to live in California and then I, we, I came back in '54. Let's see, when did my... yeah, my father passed away, he was sixty-six, so he died fairly young. And...

RP: Was Mike, Mike, your brother Mike drafted eventually?

TM: Yeah. He was a draftee, yeah.

RP: Uh-huh. Out of camp?

TM: No. No.

RP: Chicago.

TM: No, from Seabrook.

RP: Oh, from Seabrook.

TM: No, no, Chicago. That's right, Chicago, yeah.

RP: So, did he serve... where did he serve?

TM: Korea. Yeah, before the war. See, he went in around '46 so, so he went in about '46 and '47. He spent a couple of years over there. And he hardly spoke Japanese, and he went there and he learned Japanese somehow. [Laughs] He came back and he was able to speak Japanese.

RP: Huh. So he was, he was used as an interpreter in Korea?

TM: Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.

RP: Now, did you use the GI Bill to go to college?

TM: No. I went to a watch repair school.

RP: In Los Angeles?

TM: No, in Cleveland. Yeah. So that was almost like a dental technician job. You're sittin' all day. So I got tired of it. So I didn't even go into it. My brother, Mike, he was a watch-maker for forty-nine years. Yeah.

RP: Uh-huh. Mike was also involved at Manzanar at the high school. I guess, I don't know if he was the student body president or...

TM: Huh?

RP: Was Mike the student body president in Manzanar?

TM: Yeah. I think that's what somebody said. They picked it up in the computer. And I think one of my kids, when they went to Manzanar and they were going through that and they came back and they said, "Oh, I didn't know Mike was a student body president, class of '44."

<End Segment 27> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 28>

RP: What career did you eventually get into, Tak?

TM: Huh?

RP: What career did you pursue when you were back in Los Angeles?

TM: When I came back? Oh, I went into the market business. And I got into the produce, produce, selling fruit and vegetable in the market. I was doing pretty good. I went in with my brother-in-law, my sister's husband.

RP: Chizuko's husband?

TM: Yeah. Chizuko's husband. He was working at a factory. Wasn't doing any good. So I told him, "How about going in partner with me?" And so we went in partner and we did pretty good. In fact, we did so good the butcher had the main lease, lease to the store. But he wouldn't extend our lease. He wanted to take over the produce department right on West Boulevard in L.A., 66th and West Boulevard. So I, we lost that and then I jumped around working at a produce place, a different place. But my brother-in-law was older so he settled down and worked at a produce place, different chain store. And I was just jumping around doing different things. I went into a lighting manufacturing company, making fluorescent lighting. I did that for a while.

RP: You kinda did the same thing as your dad, jumping around.

TM: Yeah, I just couldn't settle down to one thing. And after that... oh, in Cleveland I worked for the post office. [Laughs]

RP: Oh, just like Manzanar.

TM: Yeah.

RP: Did you deliver mail?

TM: Yeah. Then, oh, after, after all that, I was manager for Prudential Insurance. 'Cause I listed my name at a travel, I mean, employment agency. So I guess this manager saw a name, a Japanese name, and he wanted a Japanese agent. So he called up. I mean, he called me up and he asked me if I would like to go into the insurance business. I said, "Well, I've never done any individual selling so I wouldn't know what to do." And... I just did, I did sales in the produce and all that market. But he said, "Well, we train you. We'll see if you, you could do this or not." So, they trained me for a while and that's how I got started in the insurance business. And I was doing life insurance for Prudential. I did that for about nine years. And I... at the time they, they decided to sell auto insurance. Prudential never had auto insurance. And I did real well in, in auto insurance. Life insurance is tough. You got life insurance?

RP: No. Do you want to sell me some?

TM: [Laughs] I don't do it now. Lotta... you, you get these younger people and you say, "You need insurance?" "Oh, I don't need it. I'm not, I'm not dying." [Laughs]

RP: Not yet.

TM: And then Prudential went into auto insurance, homeowner. And I started selling that and I did real well on that. And so I became just an auto insurance salesman, almost twenty years. The last twenty years, that's what I did, yeah. That's, that's the end of my story.

<End Segment 28> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 29>

RP: Oh, but you had some kids, too, along the way.

TM: Huh?

RP: You had some kids along the way.

TM: Oh, I had four of 'em.

RP: Four of 'em.

TM: Yeah. The first one was what, 1958? Yeah, he's fifty years old. Then...

RP: What's his name?

TM: Jon, J-O-N. Yeah. Then the next one is another boy. His name is Tod, T-O-D. And the third one, my daughter. And then the fourth one is another daughter, yeah. Two and two, yeah.

RP: Do they have any, did they have any curiosity about your camp experience or...

TM: Not too much. Not too much, yeah. But I think one of my daughter wrote about that in her, what is it, in school. About, you know...

RP: A report about it.

TM: Yeah, uh-huh.

RP: Did you talk, openly talk about your experience with them while they were growing up?

TM: Yeah. No, they, they're not too interested. They don't care what you did. [Laughs] You talk to your dad about what you do?

RP: About what he did or what I do?

TM: What you do.

RP: Sometimes. He's not that interested.

TM: [Laughs]

<End Segment 29> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 30>

RP: Just going back into camp again, do you remember the day that your father came back from the internment camp?

TM: No. No, I don't remember.

RP: I think it was August 8, 1942.

TM: Oh, yeah?

RP: According to this document here. That's when he came back.

TM: Oh. So, so he spent from February. He went in February. See, that's when I know, I remember he went in February. And came back in August. I remember going to the bus stop there to...

RP: Oh, to see him when he came in?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Right, right in front of the camp there?

TM: Yeah.

RP: Did he seem like the same dad to you or...

TM: Yeah, yeah.

RP: And, and probably keeping with the Issei sort of male tradition, he didn't talk much about what happened to him.

TM: Yeah. Right.

RP: Did it, did you miss your father?

TM: Well... in a way. But I was old enough and I was able to manage. So I didn't miss him. I just missed him as a parent, that's about it, yeah.

<End Segment 30> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 31>

RP: Now, you went out of camp a number of times on these furloughs.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: Did you ever go out of camp to go fishing or --

TM: No.

RP: -- to take a walk or a hike or?

TM: No.

RP: You never went out once?

TM: No.

RP: Some of the Terminal Island guys liked to go out and fish.

TM: Yeah.

RP: But you, you waited 'til you got to Idaho to, to get into --

TM: Yeah, that's when I first picked up fishing, yeah.

RP: But did you hear about, did you hear about guys sneaking out the fence?

TM: Oh, yeah, I had this one guy that stayed with me, when I left Terminal Island, he's same age as I am. His family went with us. And he was, in fact, he's the same age as I was, and then he had two sisters. And he used to do that. Yeah, he used to sneak up and go up fishing a lot, yeah. And that's all they ever talked about, fishing. I don't know whether he talked about fishing in camp, but he, even after that, he used to go up to the High Sierra and fish. That's all they, that's all they ever talked about. He was a fanatic fisherman, yeah. Ocean fisherman, everything.

RP: What was his name?

TM: Oka.

RP: Oka?

TM: John Oka, yeah. He passed away quite a few years ago, yeah. We were same age but he passed away.

<End Segment 31> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 32>

RP: The other question I have for you is you said that after these Isseis were arrested in February, that you were, you did some interpreting.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: For the... it was a JACL type of activity. Did you have any involvement with them? Were you a member of the JACL?

TM: No. This one fellow I knew, he was active, so...

RP: He recruited you?

TM: Yeah.

RP: "I know that guy. He knows good Japanese, he can speak Japanese." Because you said you were, kinda stayed away from politics.

TM: Uh-huh, yeah.

RP: So you didn't care to get involved, and JACL was just that. Okay. And how many times have you been back to Manzanar?

TM: How many times? Oh, just about every year I go, huh.

RP: You go up to go fishing and stop in?

TM: Yeah, I go fishing and then we stop by. Yeah.

RP: And what do you... are there any emotions that come out, come back for you about your life, your time in Manzanar?

TM: No. No emotions. I just feel that, hey, this is really great, the museum and all that. Oh... I feel that I was here. I'm kind of proud of it, yeah.

RP: And your name's up on that curtain.

TM: Oh, yeah. [Laughs]

<End Segment 32> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 33>

KP: How many times have you been back to Japan? You said you'd go a couple...

TM: Five all together. Five times, yeah.

KP: You go to visit family there still?

TM: Yeah, that's all I did. I didn't go visiting, I mean, travel much. I just go visit family.

KP: This is the same family you met in 1930 when you went back?

TM: Yeah. See, my mother had ten in the family see. So spent a lot of time there. But now she only has one sister living, living there now, see. And, yeah, she lives at, in a home someplace and I visited her the last trip I was there. That's about five years ago I went there. I was gonna go again this year but I don't know. I have a hard time walking now. And I enjoy going there, yeah.

RP: Is there any cousins left from your, or other relatives --

TM: Yeah.

RP: Of your father's family?

TM: You know, recently I had thirty-six cousins just on my mother's side. See, she had ten brothers and sisters all together. And when I first went there, no, second time I went there, I counted all the... I didn't meet all of 'em but there were thirty, thirty-six cousins. But there's one cousin I see all the time. Because the husband is really a nice guy and he takes me around. Yeah. The last trip I went, he took me to a prefecture, Kagoshima. And that's where the kamikaze planes were. And he went to the museum there, and these kamikaze plane, they were paper-thin plane. You should go to Japan.

RP: I'm hoping to go.

TM: Yeah.

RP: So this museum is totally devoted to kamikaze?

TM: Yeah, all these guys, sixteen to eighteen years old guy, all perished, kamikaze. All their pictures are all over the museum, yeah.

RP: Are there any relatives left on your father's side that you visited?

TM: No. Well, we weren't too close. I don't, I don't see any of... I have a few cousins over here I used to see. But, no, I don't, so I don't go to my father's side of the family, yeah.

<End Segment 33> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 34>

RP: How long have you been living in Gardena, Tak?

TM: Huh?

RP: How long have you been living in Gardena?

TM: Gardena?

RP: Yeah.

TM: Forty-eight, forty-eight years. We came here in 1960.

RP: And what was the community like in 1960? Were there still farming --

TM: Oh, yeah. Not real lot. But they were still...

RP: Was it primarily a Japanese American community at that time, or...

TM: Yeah. There were quite a few, yeah, yeah.

RP: And how has that changed over the last forty-eight years?

TM: Oh, they all, they all moved out of Gardena. They, they went to Torrance, or out that way. Because the blacks are moving in so they move out. Yeah. Like the school, Gardena High School, nobody, I mean, none of the Japanese want to go to, send their kids there. That's how bad it is. And my kids all went there and it's not bad. They all got enough background to go to college. Two of 'em went to Santa Barbara, UC Santa Barbara. One went to Irvine, UC Irvine. And the other went to UC San Diego, and she went to SC. Yeah, she's a pharmacist, yeah. But now nobody will send their kids to Gardena High School anymore.

RP: Was that associated with, with issues about violence there or drugs?

TM: Oh, yeah, uh-huh.

RP: That kind of thing.

TM: Yeah. Not that much, well occasionally they do see.

<End Segment 34> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 35>

RP: Okay, a couple of final questions. Tak, you lived in Block 11.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: You were close to the judo dojo.

TM: That was 10, huh?

RP: Ten was right next to it but you're not too far away.

TM: Uh-huh.

RP: Were you, did you ever get involved in judo?

TM: No.

RP: Or kendo?

TM: No.

RP: No? The other, the other location was right next to Block 11 where the Victory Garden area... the little farming area where people had their plots of vegetables and did you, did your family cultivate any vegetables? Grow anything there?

TM: No.

RP: With the landscape around your barrack, did you, you remember...

TM: Around Block 11?

RP: Yeah.Was there any gardens or lawns or...

TM: Uh-uh.

RP: No? How did the, how did the landscape, the mountains and the, the area where the camp was, affect you? Did you... were you impacted by the surrounding area of the camp?

TM: You mean now or...

RP: Then or now.

TM: Oh. Not too much.

RP: Well, Tak, it's, it's been an honor to finally get a chance to interview you after meeting with you three or four times and sharing these stories. It's good to get these on tape and we'll have your story preserved for, forever. And so from Kirk and myself and the Park Service, thank you for spending some time this morning going over your, your life with us.

<End Segment 35> - Copyright (c) 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.