<Begin Segment 15>

JA: What did you come away from your experience at Manzanar having learned? Anything?

GI: Well, it gave me the, it gave me the opportunity to make something of myself, which I did. I mean, I hate to, I hate to brag about myself, but I was able to start a bakery there after the war on borrowed money. From there, I made up my mind I'm going to be the president of the Master Bakers Association, which I eventually made, and then I was also the president of the Optimist Club, which we had one of the most successful Optimist Club in the country when I was president. And then I also had my eye on being the president of the National ARBA, that's the National Baker's Association, I had my eyes on that, too, and I was on my way up until one, one old-timer came up to me and says, "George, I want you to stick around because we're going to make you president." And that stopped everything for me. Nobody's going to make me president, I'm going to make president on my own. So I just, I just resigned from that. And then I was also Harbor Commissioner in 1973, I believe it was, until 1976 or '77. And I tried to do what a good citizen should do, being on the commission, but that's the wrong feeling, though, because you cannot fight the government, or the system. The system is here to stay. And I tried to change certain things in the system, you can't do it. And that's where I got in a little bit of a situation with the mayor. Because he didn't want me to, to fight anything that he was for, and that's the way it was. It was all politics.

JA: Tell me about how hard it was to get that first bakery going. You must have worked pretty hard at that.

GI: Well, I was still a baker's helper in 19... let's see, I went to baking school in '48, I went to all the correspondence course, there was a National Baking School from Chicago, I took that, took that, and I went to night school, and I worked under the GI -- and that's another thing that I think that GI Bill helped me. At least I was able to go to different baking schools under the GI Bill, it gave me a start. And then I also got a job as a baker's helper under the GI Bill, which paid me a better salary than just being a baker's helper, and that, that's how it got me started. I worked for one baker and then he taught me everything he thought he knew, and I, I was never satisfied with what I can just learn from one person, you know, I had, I had to go out and learn as much as I can from other people. And in fact, when I was running that bakery in 1950 I was just a helper, I wasn't a full-fledged baker, but I learned. And had a salesman who was a baker-turned-salesman and he used to come and help me do this-and-that about making bread, understanding the mixing procedure, and this-and-that, so I got help from whoever I seeked help from.

JA: Well, you've had a pretty successful life.

GI: Well I think, I think that we accomplished a lot more than the average person did.

JA: What would you... how would you describe the phrase "the American dream"? What does that mean to you?

GI: "American dream" is up to the individual, every individual in this country. You can, you can reach that dream if you set your mind and... mind to it and work for it, but you can, I mean -- nothing's going to be given to you, you have to work for it. I mean, I hate, I don't like these people that are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and, you know, it's all given to them, but they never turn out to be good leaders.

JA: Would you say you've achieved "the American dream"?

GI: Well I think I, I achieved "the American dream" many, many years ago, which I accomplished a lot of things in life, which an average person didn't. Because -- well, there's another thing, right after I came out of the army, I have to tell you about this one incident. I went to see a friend of mine who was a mechanic and he says, "Hey, Gimp, what are you going to do?" I said, "I'm going to be a baker," and he laughed in my face. "You gonna be a baker?" and he probably didn't think I could ever make it, but I did. So you can't -- just because somebody has a negative attitude about your future -- you can't let that stop you. You have to keep on going because the opportunity is out there. Even, the opportunity is even out there today if people will look for it.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2002 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.