<Begin Segment 11>

RP: Do you have any other remembrances of your time at Manzanar, things, a vivid memory or sight or sound or smell of the camp that sticks in your mind?

MS: No, I don't have too much. I mean, I know we went to church, and it was in a barrack.

RP: Did you, did you on occasion go outside of the camp to Lone Pine or Independence?

MS: Well, we did. I mean, they couldn't but we could.

RP: Right.

MS: I know one time we went to, in the fall, we went over to... well, I guess it was Modesto or Empire, to a Church of the Brethren district conference. And I think we just crossed over the mountains 'cause it was fall, and we could. But I know something happened to the car, and it seemed like the wheel came off or something, and Ralph just got out and pushed the wheel back on and we went on back to Manzanar. [Laughs] Really strange. But I know one weekend, we went over to Modesto and I know we had to go across the mountains to get back to Manzanar.

RP: Mary, why did you choose to establish this hostel in Chicago instead of Milwaukee or...

MS: Well, we had a seminary there. And at that time, they didn't have too many seminary students. I think the war, they were going off to war, and of course, some of 'em would have been conscientious objectors, and they would have been in CPS camps, and so they had room. And also, they had what they called a dining club there. And some of the single students were cooking the meals together and eating together, and so we could eat with them. And Bethany had a big building, and then they had a little building over here, and the dining club was in the basement at this little building. And I know we, we ate with them, and well, we helped cook and stuff, too, do the dishes and so on. But they had room for us. But then, you see, we went... I got there in March, Ralph got there about in May, but by the fall, they decided they didn't have room for us for the next year. And so somehow, I don't know how we found this big mansion up on the, it was almost to Evanston, it was 6118 North Sheridan Road, and it was close to the lake, too, but we rented it. I think they'd had a... I think they had kind of like a rest home in it before. I know that it was like a three-story place, and there was a big ballroom on top. And I know we put a bunch of cots up there, and that's where the men all slept. We even got comforters from Indiana and someplace for, to have covers for 'em. I suppose we bought sheets and stuff, I don't remember about it. But then on the (second) floor, there were about four or five bedrooms. And Ralph and I had one, and then there were about three more that families could be in, and the women. And I think just the men were up there in that big ballroom. And we had a big dining room, and like there's pictures, I don't know where I've got these pictures, but they have 'em at the Bancroft or something in Berkeley.

RP: Berkeley?

MS: Yeah, they have a lot of pictures.

RP: Pictures of this, of this mansion.

MS: Yeah. They have, they have even pictures of us in the hostel in Brooklyn in there.

RP: I'll have to look for those.

MS: So anyway, well, I've seen pictures of us in the dining room. We had a big, long table. And this was a very nice mansion, it was a big house, and it was a very nice place.

RP: You guys rented that?

MS: Rented it, yeah.

RP: Did the church pay for the rent?

MS: Well, (yes), and I think somebody thought... we charged these people a little bit to come and stay at the hostel.

RP: Oh, you did.

MS: I think they had to pay a dollar or two a day or something. You know, it's funny, it happened so long ago, I just can't remember the details. And, of course, I know, I know we helped more than a thousand come to Chicago. And as I said, we were young and idealistic, and we didn't want to help make a Little Tokyo there, so we shut it, and that's when we went to Brooklyn. And somehow we knew somebody in the Baptist church, and they were willing to help us in Brooklyn. And I don't know how we found this vacant frathouse, fraternity house, but it was right down, close to downtown Brooklyn. And people were worried about the Japanese coming there, but...

RP: It worked out.

MS: We started... I know they told us we didn't have to go through there 'cause the neighbors didn't want 'em at all, especially one dentist, he didn't want 'em. But we only were there from May to August. And then there was an M.R. Zigler who was the executive for the Brethren Service Commission, and he wanted Ralph to come and work for him in Elgin, that's where our headquarters for the Church of the Brethren was, I guess it still is. Anyway, he wanted Ralph to come and work for him, and I always said Ralph was just his flunkie. [Laughs] Anyway, so they got somebody else to come.

RP: And work the hostel?

MS: Uh-huh. I'm trying to think of her name. I used to know it, but I can't say it right now. She took over, and it went for another year or so. I don't know how long it went, quite a while. But we moved to Elgin. And by the time we were going to Elgin, I was pregnant. And I was expecting the child in October, so I know I didn't want to ride in the car from New York to Elgin, which is halfway across the United States, you know, from New York to Illinois. So I got on a boat and went up the Hudson, and then I got on a train from there to Chicago, and then Ralph came in the car.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.