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RP: Give us your impressions of teaching at Manzanar, about the kids, about the...

MS: Well, I remember the first day, you had a bare room, nothing. So we had newspapers, and the kids sat on the floor with their back up to the wall, and that's how you started. But we didn't stay that way. I mean, I don't remember how long it was 'til we got some desks and stuff. But by the time six months were up, and we were ready to go to start the hostel in Chicago, a Japanese man took my, he taught the classes I'd been teaching. And, of course, Ralph had his science classes. But I never had easier teaching. They were very attentive, and you didn't have discipline problems. And somehow, I think it's the Asian culture that is just very much into education. And also, they're very, you know, polite and kind to each other and stuff, and it's a society that's... what do you call it? Very civilized and doesn't have... I don't think they had very many problems. But like the problem in Manzanar was between the Issei and the Nisei. The Nisei is the second generation, and they had the Japanese American Citizens League, JACL. And like while we were still there, the JACL got permission to meet in Salt Lake, and a bunch of the younger ones got to go out to a meeting. And they came back, and the Issei were mad, they didn't like it. And there was a man called Togo Tanaka that lived two barracks from us. Anyway, they were after Togo, and he was hiding at his brother's house, and his wife came over and asked Ralph to go get him and take him out of camp. And so Ralph found him at his brother's place, and I guess he had a sword or a knife or something, Ralph made him leave it there. And he got in the car and Ralph had him get down behind the front seat and he drove out to the guard tower and he just went sliding across like that to get Togo out there to the guard. And they said, "Boy, we weren't watching or we'd have shot at you," but they weren't paying attention. So he got Togo out.

And then, you know, the problem was between the first generation and second generation, the Issei and the Nisei. And they had, on Sunday, I think it was, kind of a big mass meeting. And as they were leaving this meeting, some of the soldiers shot a couple of Japanese boys in the back, at least one, maybe two, I don't know. But it caused quite a problem. And I know I was reading in this letter, they kind of shut things down for a while and nothing happened. Then I think it tells about it in this letter better than I can say it, 'cause I don't remember all the details. But they, we didn't teach for a while. And they said if you stayed there, you could get paid. But you could go on home if you wanted, but you didn't get paid. We stayed there. And, of course, we worked with the church. They had, they had a Protestant church and Catholic church, and they had Buddhist, too. And so we worked with the Protestants and we stayed there, and they started up the school together. You could read the letter I gave you, it tells all about this, more than I can remember all the detail. But we never felt afraid; we were never in any, any trouble.

[Interruption]

RP: Mary, tell us a little bit about these, these Kibei boys that you kind of were parents to, actually. How did you get along language-wise with them? Because most of them --

MS: Well, they were, actually, Kibei means they're born in the United States but they were educated in Japan, and they were very Japanesey. They were more Japanesey than they were American. And I think there was some variation, but we had this one artist fellow that painted all these watercolors and gave us copies. But we had, I know in this letter Ralph wrote, we had a party, and they had it in our room where we were and they furnished the food and stuff. And they invited their friends from the block or from anyplace. And well, you know, the Japanese weren't mad at being there, they just figured they had to accept it. And so when they got there, they decided they might as well have as normal a life as they could in there. And they just kind of made the best of it. And, well, these Kibei, we didn't have a lot to do with 'em. I mean, we were there, and they were there, and we ate with 'em once a week, but we didn't, we didn't do things with 'em all the time. Of course, we were busy teaching, too, and I imagine I had to work at night on lesson plans and stuff. I don't remember.

RP: You left, we always wondered what happened to George, George Yano.

MS: Yeah, I haven't...

RP: Nobody really knows whatever happened to him.

MS: I know. I found something out and I sent it to him. I forget what that was.

RP: You mentioned Margaret D'ille, or...

MS: D'ille.

RP: D'ille, I don't know which way to go with that name. Were there other administrators that you, I know you were there just a short time, but did you develop a rapport with...

MS: Well, yeah, there was a Thomas Temple, and he actually was Jewish, I think. And before... I think before I left, I think he left and went to Chicago. And he had about a dozen boys staying with him on the south side of Chicago. And, of course, they got jobs easy, could get jobs. They didn't pay a lot. I know Thomas Temple, he must not have lived too long because I think we were still in Chicago when he died. And I know I went to his memorial service and somebody asked me if I was of the faith, and they meant, was I Jewish. And, of course, I wasn't Jewish, and I told 'em that. But he wanted to help them get out, too, and so I can't remember what he did in Manzanar, but he worked there first.

RP: Right, he did. I think he was involved with relocation.

MS: Did he, from the beginning?

RP: Yeah, from really early on.

MS: Well, he might have been. Of course, you know, the government, when they got all this, how many they figure was, how many thousands all together?

RP: In the camps?

MS: Yeah. I think we had ten thousand at Manzanar, didn't we?

RP: Roughly 120,000.

MS: Yeah, right. Well, it was costing them a lot. And I think they, they figured it was a good thing to get 'em out. And actually, in the end, you know, there were some like... how was it? I was in the airport, and I know some of these, the Japanese felt like they were being protected in there. Some of 'em, the older ones, I don't think the younger ones felt like that, but I think the older ones did.

RP: Older ones, right, the Isseis.

MS: Yeah.

RP: Yeah, they felt secure there.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.