Densho Digital Archive - Yoshimi Hasui Watada Interview

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RP: This is an oral history for the Manzanar National Historic Site in partnership with the Densho Legacy Project. Today we are talking with Yoshimi Watada and we'll be discussing Yoshimi's life in the Imperial Valley and later on in Colorado as a Japanese American growing up in the area. We'll be talking also about her family's experiences during World War II as a relocated family in Colorado. Her interview is taking place at the Marriott Residence Inn in Denver, Colorado. Our date is May 15th, Thursday, 2008 and our interviewer is Richard Potashin and videographer Kirk Peterson. This interview will be archived in the Manzanar National Historic Site's library. And Yoshimi, it's a pleasure to, to ask, be able to spend a little time with you, sharing, talking about family history. And we're gonna start right at the very beginning with your birth date and birth place.

YW: I was born in, on August 23, 1935, in Brawley, California.

RP: And give us your name at birth.

YW: Yoshimi Hasui... that's it.

RP: You were telling me, when we talked earlier, about the meaning of your first name and your last name.

YW: Oh, that was my father, my father's... oh, the meaning of my name.

RP: Your name.

YW: Oh. Yoshi is "good" and mi is "beautiful." So my --

RP: And Hasui?

YW: Oh, that's "lotus," it means "lotus."

RP: Okay. And were you born in a hospital or --

YW: Yes.

RP: -- were you delivered at home?

YW: (No). We were living in Niland but they had no hospital in Niland so my mother went to the hospital in Brawley and that's where I was born, in Brawley.

RP: Oh, okay. And...

YW: Are you familiar with that area?

RP: A little bit. Can you tell us where Niland is located?

YW: It's in the Imperial Valley. Do you know where the Imperial Valley... El Centro...

RP: Near the Salton Sea?

YW: Yes, near the Salton Sea.

RP: Okay.

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RP: I wanted to have you give us a little bit of a, a portrait of your parents, starting with your father. And can you give us his, his full name?

YW: His name was Kazuyoshi Ichiro Hasui. And I understand that if you look at the kanji for Kazuyoshi, you can also read it as Ichiro. And I remember he always signed his name as K. I. Hasui. I thought that was kind of interesting.

RP: And where in Japan did he come from?

YW: Oh, he was, he was born in January 5, 1894 in Kagawa-ken, Okawa-gun, Nagao-ochi.

RP: Would be the village?

YW: Yes. Ochi? Is that the village? Does ochi mean village? I can't remember what those ken and gun and ochi means. But both my mother and father were Kagawa-ken.

RP: Now, your father had an interesting path to, to America. He originally went with his father to Peru, is that correct?

YW: Well, that's what I heard. But when I was reading his Who's Who article, it said that his father was already in the U.S. so he called my father over to join him in January 11th of 1910. So that makes my father about sixteen years old. So he came to Seattle first and then went to Santa Ana where my father, where my grandfather was farming. And he helped him on the farm. And then my father became independent and he went to El Centro to farm in 1915.

RP: Did your grandfather remain in the United States or did he eventually return --

YW: He eventually went back to Japan. Right.

RP: Okay. And so your father's father called him to come over at age sixteen. And what can you tell us about your, your father in terms of his personality and some of the values that he instilled in you as a kid growing up?

YW: He was a... I remember him as being a very quiet person. But he must have been the leader in the community 'cause I, I remember him being in these kind of a church uniform or costume or whatever you wanna call it during Buddhist holidays. So I think he was one of the original founders of the Buddhist temple in El Centro. And he, with a friend, developed Mutual Shipping Company in El Centro and he had the shipping company for like nine years before he moved to Niland to farm.

RP: And that was a company that was probably set up with other Japanese...

YW: He had a partner in the Mutual Shipping Company.

RP: So he would ship --

YW: Produce.

RP: -- produce for the area.

YW: And he said, they said that he was, he created and became the chief of an association. So that must have been something like a co-op. So, reading about these things, he seemed to be a leader.

RP: Right, very much so. A community leader and maybe part of a Japanese association that covered that area.

YW: Right. And I think that's why the FBI approached him.

RP: They had interest in him, eventually.

<Begin Segment 3>

RP: Let's talk about your mom a little bit too. First of all, her name?

YW: Kinue. I've, I've seen it spelled K-I-N-U-E and also K-I-N-U-Y-E. It's Kinue, I mean it's pronounces Kin-yu-ay.

RP: And her maiden name?

YW: (Murakami).

RP: And, can you give us a little background on her roots in Japan? You mentioned she kinda came from the same area as your dad. And, and that she also came from a relatively well-to-do family?

YW: That's what it, that's what I gathered because she thought life was good for her in Japan. She couldn't imagine how much better it could be in the United States. How, she felt like maybe the streets were paved with gold. But she soon found out it was a little different. But she came over when she was like sixteen, fifteen, sixteen, and she went to finishing school. But I never did find out exactly what that was.

RP: And she came over by herself or was she accompanied --

YW: She came over with her brother and her mother.

RP: And do you know where they, they came in to? Seattle or --

YW: They came to Seattle. They came into Seattle and then she had friends or relatives or something in Swink.

RP: Swink? Where's that?

YW: That's between Rocky Ford and La Junta. It's a little town.

RP: And so she, she went there and stayed there?

YW: That's where she came but I think she went to the finishing school in Denver.

RP: Okay. So it sounds like she might have had some reasonable amount of education before she came to America?

YW: It sounds like it.

RP: Well-to-do. And so how did she, how did she adapt to the situation here? A lot of Issei women came here and really had to be pretty strong and perseverant in dealing with a, a strange country and new customs, a different language...

YW: Well, I know after she was married and she had her family she was out there working on the farm. And just working every day on the farm, working very hard. But I don't know what she did with her education that she got from her finishing school because I didn't ask. So, I never did know what she did with that. But I know she was, she knew how to sew and she knew how to knit and crochet and she did a lot of handiwork, and, whenever she had time.

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RP: How did your mother and father meet?

YW: Oh, their, their fathers were on the same boat coming to the United States from Japan. So I guess they talked about having the children and somehow they got 'em together.

RP: They kept connect... contact with each other? Hmm.

YW: Uh-huh. That part is kinda foggy.

RP: Do you know where your parents were married?

YW: No, I don't. But at... my father was living in California. My mother was in Colorado. So I don't exactly know how they got together.

RP: A new story.

YW: Maybe my sisters will know. I'll have to ask.

RP: Sure, yeah. Speaking of your sisters, why don't we take this opportunity to maybe mention your other siblings, brothers and sisters. If you can give us their, as well as their English name, their Japanese name and, and maybe a date of birth if you can recall it?

YW: If I could remember. My oldest brother was James Noboru Hasui, and he was born in January 1927? Would that make it right? He just passed away and he was eighty-one. That adds up? And he was the oldest. And then I had another brother, Madoka Hasui and he was... was he about three years younger, and he died when he was eighteen months. He drowned in the pond that we had on our farm.

RP: In Niland?

YW: In Niland, yes. And then my sister, Naomi, she's three years older than me, so she was born in '32? Naomi. And then my other sister, Azusa, is a year, two years older than me and she was born in '33, October 1st. Naomi's born in March 10th. And then I was born in August 23, 1935. Then I had a younger brother, Stanley Ken, and he was born in May 14, 1942. And he passed away two years ago. He had Lou Gehrig's disease.

RP: So there's essentially just three of you still left.

YW: There's three of us left.

RP: Just the daughters.

YW: Yes.

RP: You told me that as a family, you never got close to each other because of, of your different ages.

YW: I, I guess that's what caused it. But my sisters and I are now getting closer. My oldest brother was much too, much older than I was so we never did anything together. But he always, he was a very kind person and he'd always tell me, as I got in my teens, that, "If you ever need any money, be sure to ask." Or if you needed any help. But, we, we never did anything together. We never were close. Then my youngest brother was so much younger than I was that I never did really get to know him very well.

RP: You had a little different personality than your other sisters.

YW: Yes, my sisters were, were girlish. They liked to sew and they liked to cook and clean house and things. And I liked to be, I was more tomboyish. I liked to skate and play tennis and play basketball and baseball.

RP: You adjusted to doing things by yourself?

YW: I was more of a loaner, I guess.

RP: Uh-huh.

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RP: So when you were, you were born in 1934 --

YW: '35.

RP: '35, I'm sorry. Your father was farming in Niland?

YW: Right. That was the year they moved to Niland, from El Centro.

RP: And, can you tell us a little bit about your father's farm? Do you remember, I mean, I know you were very young, but did you get a sense for the size of the farm? Was it a really large farm, or...

YW: Well, I was little so it seemed like it was huge. He had a Caterpillar and he had horses and I used to go out in the field with him. And he used to have these A-shaped, whatever they call this, that worked in the farm? And there was a little bar, so he let me sit on this little bar. We'd go up and down, up and down the field all day long. And I remember sometime he'd have this other kind of equipment, farm equipment. So I'd just walk behind him and the horses, up and down. I just liked to be outside, I guess. And I remember the farm, he grew truck crops and he would have these little, these brown paper on, on just rolls of it. I guess there'd be sticks and then there'd be paper on it to protect the, his crops from the wind and, and the frost or whatever. Cause it'd be rows and rows of these brown paper. That's what I could remember about the farm.

RP: They had pretty extreme conditions out there [inaudible] occasional frost.

YW: They used to say it'd get so hot out there you can cook an egg on the sidewalk. [Laughs]

RP: I believe it. And how did your dad, how was your dad able to acquire land in Niland given the, the restrictions on Isseis owning land?

YW: Oh, that's right. He had, he was a very successful farmer. So he was making a lot of money, but being an Issei he couldn't buy land. So he found a Caucasian friend who said that he could use his name. My father would pay for the land but the land would be in this Caucasian's name and that was the only way that he could acquire this farm.

RP: Did you, did you ever know that man's name?

YW: I don't remember the name. I don't remember even what he looks like. 'Cause I was six years old when we left.

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RP: And, interesting, I think what you said about your father being a successful farmer, enabled, being able to, to buy, purchase land, really essentially in the middle of the Depression is when he bought that ranch.

YW: Uh-huh.

RP: So he must have been successful with his, with his packing house as well.

YW: I think so.

RP: With enough money to...

YW: I think we had a pretty good life then. Because we used to take vacation. In the winter we used to go to San Diego and go fishing. I don't ever remember taking a vacation after we left California, being on the farm.

RP: Is that the winter or the summer?

YW: It was during the winter when we went to San Diego to fish. I guess it was during the break of the crops when one was finished and before the other one was ready. My father, I think was a very talented person also 'cause he built, he built the shed, the packing shed on the farm and he also built the house we lived in. And the house we lived in had canvas shades. And, like I was telling you, when we went on this trip back to the Imperial Valley, we went back there, was it 'bout two or three years ago, we went with a retired Christian minister's group. And we went back to the museum and they had pictures of these houses. And I said, "Oh, I used to live in one of those houses." And they're hoping to be able to build one there for people to see. And because the Japanese people couldn't lease farms for more than three years, they built these homes so that they, they were very mobile and they could put 'em on wagons and they could move 'em from field to field. But I don't ever remember my father ever moving our, our house. But you can see that in the, in the museum where this house is on a wagon where they're moving it.

RP: They're moving it.

YW: And I thought that was kind of interesting.

RP: Interesting. A mobile home.

YW: Uh-huh. A mobile home. And I remember my... for the longest time I wondered why we had... this part of the house was like the living room and the kitchen, the dining room. And then there was a space in between which you can drive through and then the bedrooms were back there. And I thought, for the longest time, I thought the earthquake came and separated our house. But that's how they built it, in different modules.

RP: I see. You could actually drive between the two modules.

YW: Uh-huh. And they're independent so you can lift this one, move it. And you can life this one, and move it. You can put 'em together or you can put 'em separate. Very creative.

RP: It is very creative. Is that... do you think that's something that Japanese American farmers came up with there or was...

YW: I think so. I think, because I think the families helped each other.

RP: 'Cause of the restrictions and... and did you, did you share a bedroom with your sisters?

YW: I can't remember. In Niland, I can't remember.

[Interruption]

RP: What do you recall about living -- I know you were a young age -- but do you have any recollections about the heat of the summers in Imperial Valley and what you did to try to, you did to try to cool off a little bit?

YW: Being small I guess the heat didn't bother me. 'Cause I used to be out in the field with my dad. And I had a dog and I used to feed my dog sugar. But I don't remember it being hot. He was my playmate, I guess. My dog.

RP: You, your father would occasionally hire additional labor on the farm, predominately Mexicans or Hispanics?

YW: Uh-huh. He had a lot of Mexican workers and my dad, my mom would, they would bring us some tortillas for lunch and then my, my mother would give them rice and whatever we were eating in exchange. I can still remember the tortillas were so good. I think beans were wrapped in 'em. I've never had anything like that since, that I could remember. It was so good.

RP: Did they, did you have quarters for them on the farm or did they, would they just come every day and go...

YW: I think they came and went because I don't remember them living near us. But my dad spoke to them in Spanish. So I think they taught him. I don't know whether they learned Japanese, but my father learned Spanish.

RP: As, as somebody said, all the choice words.

YW: Yeah, right. [Laughs]

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RP: What do you recall about... your dad was involved with the Buddhist church.

YW: Uh-huh.

RP: And were, were your brothers and sisters going to Japanese school?

YW: Yes.

RP: Did you eventually, or were you, you were too young for that.

YW: I was too young because they started when they were six. And I think I got to go, or maybe from the time school started 'til the time we had to leave in March. So that would have been... school started in September. September, October, November, December, January, February... I got to go maybe six months but I don't remember anything.

RP: Your dad had a few sort of, I wouldn't call them hobbies, but things he did kind of to relax and you know, unwind a little bit.

YW: He liked the pool hall.

RP: He liked the pool hall.

YW: Yes.

RP: And where was the pool hall located?

YW: It must have been downtown. 'Cause I don't remember.

RP: That would be Niland or Brawley?

YW: We lived in Niland, so it'd be downtown Niland. 'Course he could have gone to El Centro, or Brawley. So I don't...

RP: Did, did those towns have a, have a Japanese community per se, like a Japantown? El Centro or Brawley?

YW: I'm sure they did, but you know, I don't remember. I don't remember that.

RP: He also like to play go too.

YW: I remember seeing him play go more in Colorado than in California. But I just knew that, I heard that he went to the pool hall often.

RP: Did he like his sake, too?

YW: You know, he didn't drink. If he drank he would drink on social, just to be social. Then his face would be all red. And my mom, she never drank. I don't know whether it was because she didn't like it or she was... I had an allergic condition to it. None of us, the children, drank. We didn't, I didn't like the taste of it. I didn't like the smell of it.

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RP: So your dad is a successful established farmer in, in Niland and you're set up there and then the war comes along and changes your lives entirely. First of all, tell me about the experience as you recall it when the FBI showed up at your house.

YW: I, I remember a dark car driving up and I remember two big Caucasian men coming in. And in those days when we had company, adult company, we had to go into the kitchen or in the, the back room. So the children, we were in the back room and I remember my children, my sisters, sayin', "They're here. The FBI men are here. They came to take Daddy away." They were just running around saying, "That's what they're here for." The next thing I knew, we were told that we would be moving and we had to, we were burying... I was with my oldest brother and he was burying his hunting rifle and our family camera. Because he said, "Oh, we can't take this with us. So we have to get rid of 'em." So we were burying 'em. That's what I could remember.

RP: And the FBI man gave your father an ultimatum.

YW: Right.

RP: What was that?

YW: He said, "You have 24 hours to decide whether you want to, you, the father, go to the camp or you move your whole family inland." So my father decided he'll move all of us inland and that's why he was packing everything we had on this little pickup truck and the car.

RP: That must have been a terribly frantic time.

YW: Oh, we were all running around, I remember.

RP: Twenty-four hours.

YW: So we left our horses, our Caterpillar, big tractors and stuff.

RP: And what, what arrangements did your father make for, for the farm? Did he leave it to somebody?

YW: Oh, the fellow that the farm was in, the name of the person, the Caucasian person who loaned my father his name, he said, "Well you just go ahead and do what you have to do. I'll be here to take care of everything for you. The crops are ready to be harvested. I'll harvest them. I'll take care of it. You just worry about your family and just get in your car and move them where you have to." So that's when they, my brother was sixteen years old and my father had to get a special permit for him to drive, 'cause I don't think he was quite old enough to drive.

RP: Oh, sixteen. I was, I was --

YW: Was he sixteen?

RP: -- reading earlier that he was fourteen.

YW: He was born in '29? Or '27? And we were in '42?

RP: He'd be fifteen.

YW: He was fifteen.

RP: So yeah, he was underage.

YW: He was under age, uh-huh. So he drove the, he had to drive the pickup truck because my mother was seven months pregnant with my youngest brother and she couldn't drive the car. So my father had to drive the car with all the suitcases or whatever he could put in the trunk. And my brother drove the, the truck with whatever we could put on there.

RP: And what did you, what do you recall taking with you?

YW: On the pickup?

RP: Uh-huh.

YW: I remember my mother wanted her washing machine and her sewing machine. So I remember those two. I don't what else she had, they had on the pickup.

RP: Washing machine and sewing machine...

YW: Yeah. I remember my mother saying, she said, "Oh, we just did so well. We got $100,000 saved now for the next year we won't, I won't have to go out in the farm. I can stay home with the children, watching the children." So then that's when they had to pick up and move.

RP: And your father, at, at this point in his life is what, about forty-nine years old?

YW: Uh-huh. He's forty-nine.

RP: And, it's, it's tough to start over again.

YW: Yes to start all over, right. Oh, and then he took, he was taking care of these other families. So he, he quickly established a caravan of about five families and some of the families, the head of the household was no longer alive so my father took care of... they were very good friends of ours and they had, she had like three children and so he took care of them. So we all traveled in the caravan to... we were going, we had to go where we had a sponsor, and our sponsor was in Colorado, Rocky Ford. But since there was so many of us, they didn't have living accommodation for all of us so my father found another place that we could stay for the, that short period until they were able to find a living accommodation for all of us and that was in Boise City, Oklahoma. The fellow, Mr. (Kohler) was his name, I think he, my father knew him through seeds. I think my father purchased seeds when he was farming in Niland, through this person.

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RP: So you drove to Oklahoma. Can you remember anything at all about the trip?

YW: I remember we stayed one night, at least one night someplace at the hotel because my sister, my older sister broke a glass while she was brushing her teeth and mother got so worried. She said, "Oh, we'd better leave some money here to pay for the glass." So she left money for that broken glass.

RP: One thing, do you recall, was it March that you left?

YW: Uh-huh. It was around March. Because my mother was seven months pregnant and my brother was born in May 14th.

RP: And that kind of fits in with the, the window that, that the military allowed for Japanese families to voluntary, voluntarily evacuate. One other question I wanted to, I wanted you to respond to about that, the situation with the FBI. Did they, did they go through the house at all, searching for any items or going through, through rooms and things, looking for anything?

YW: I don't remember that. I don't remember that at all. I just remember that we couldn't take my brother's hunting rifle and, and the camera. But that was all that I could remember. I can't even remember what condition we left the house. We must have left it just like we were living because they couldn't do anything with it. They didn't even try to sell anything.

RP: 'Cause of the time?

YW: Yeah.

RP: Do you recall any of your feelings about that experience, seeing the men? Was there a feeling of fear or confusion or what's gonna happen next or...

YW: Oh, I just got scared because my sisters were saying, "The FBI man's here and they're gonna take Daddy away." But, I guess I was young, too young.

<Begin Segment 10>

RP: Tell us about your experience in Boise, Oklahoma. You're in a strange place with... and you're going to a strange school and everything else. And then on top of that, your mom was unable to deliver her child in the local hospital.

YW: Right. Oklahoma, in that area, wouldn't allow Japanese people in the hospital. So my dad had to take her to Colorado to our sponsor and so my mom stayed over there. And then he came back and stayed with us. We, and the different families had to stay in different places and we got to stay in the barn. I remember being in the loft, on, sleeping on the hay and there were bedbugs, and we always looked for bedbugs. And I remember my, my friend, one of the children of the family that was, they, they got to stay in the chicken coop, I think. And another one got to stay in the hut, and another one got to stay in this stone building. But, we all stayed in different places on...

RP: Same property?

YW: Uh-huh. On this farm.

RP: So all of these five families are living on this farm.

YW: On this same farm but in different buildings.

RP: In different spaces.

YW: And we all went to the same school, it was a one, one-room school from first grade to eighth grade, or something like that. So my sisters were in the same class, the same room as I was. I was in the first grade and my sisters were in different grades. But I could remember every time the teacher asked me to read I can think, all I thought about, I missed my mom and I started crying and so I couldn't read. And so my sisters, on the last day of school, my sister says, "You didn't pass because you just cried all the time." So I thought, "Oh my gosh, I flunked." But I saw my report card and they had passed me. They must have felt sorry for me. They passed me, so I made it through school.

RP: So, how long was your mom actually gone? She, she went to the hospital, delivered her child, and then she stayed in Rocky Ford?

YW: Uh-huh. She stayed with our friends.

RP: Until you joined her later.

YW: Uh-huh.

RP: I see.

<Begin Segment 11>

YW: So she stayed there 'til March, from March until the time that we were able to move.

RP: And were you the only Japanese American kids in your, in that small one room school?

YW: Uh-huh. Just the families that went, were traveling together.

RP: It must have boosted the enrollment, seeing as how...

YW: I don't know. But I remember --

RP: And how were you received by the other students?

YW: I don't even remember the other students. I just, I just remember that I missed my mom so much that I couldn't think of anything else. 'Cause I was the baby of the family.

RP: Seven, eight years old.

YW: I was six years old.

RP: Perfectly natural.

YW: I was talking with my sister the other day when they were here for my brother's funeral and she was saying, "Don't you remember when we had to move?" And she said, "Mom came to me and said, 'You're grown up now. You're eight years old. You could give up your dolls.'" So she took her dolls and my sister remembers taking really good care of her dolls and mom took it and gave it to the child of the family that she was staying with while she had the baby. So my sister was very upset because a few years later she saw the doll and that person hadn't taken very good care of her doll. And she can remember that to this day. She had to give up her doll when she was eight years old 'cause her mother told her she was grown up now, she didn't need to have dolls. Isn't that interesting what we remember?

RP: So you lived in the barn of this, this farm area, this barn. And, how were you treated by the family where you stayed?

YW: I don't remember, remember seeing him but I heard later that at the time that he was letting us stay, us five Japanese families stay on his farm, he had a son that was in the service fighting the Japanese. So I thought, "Oh, he must have really had a big heart to allow us to come and stay." But we went back to visit the son maybe about three or four years ago. And he was really, really nice. And he, he couldn't remember a whole lot because he wasn't there when we were there but he was willing to show us anything we wanted to see on his farm. The barn was still there. But my husband says, "I was expecting a huge barn the way you talked about it." But it was a little barn. But I guess it was huge 'cause I was so little. But the barn was still there. And the chicken coop was still there and the stone house was still there. But, we didn't see the hut and a few of the other buildings we talked about.

RP: Yoshimi, did you recall the names of the other Japanese families that caravanned with you to...

YW: I remember the Konishis and the Fujitas. Let me see, who else? I heard there was a Maruyama, but I don't remember them. But I can't remember the others. I remember the Konishis because they were almost like relatives to us. They were really good, good friends. And the Fujitas, I still keep in touch with some of the children. We went to see him a couple years ago. We went to see Ben. Ben was the same age with me. And he had some memories, too. He was, he remembers my oldest brother, who just passed away, he said he used to herd sheep with my brother there on the, in Boise, Oklahoma.

RP: In Boise, Oklahoma?

YW: Uh-huh.

RP: I was gonna ask you, yeah, if your older brothers actually did work on the farm while you were there.

YW: Uh-huh. And I guess my father did that, too. But I don't remember. I just remember playing.

RP: But your brothers...

YW: Uh-huh. It's interesting, they had a windmill and the only time we could get water was when the wind was blowing and the windmill, windmill was working. And it was interesting when we went back there three years ago, the smell, it brought back the memory of, of Boise. It was, it was always kind of windy there. It was windy the day we were visiting. And the windmill was still there.

RP: Yeah, it gets... it's all still, still back there.

YW: Uh-huh.

RP: Was there a, was there a particular sight, smell, or sound that you associate with the farm in Niland?

YW: You know, I can never find Niland. I could never find our farm. I mean we drove through on the bus. There was a family on there, that, they were our neighbors in Niland. And she was quite a bit older than I was. She was about my oldest brother's age. So I thought she would remember more but she says, "I don't remember any of this." She says, "You remember, you seem to remember more than I do." So I was really disappointed that I couldn't go and see the land, the exact area where my father farmed. But I couldn't find it. I'd like to go back again one day with my sisters and see if they could remember it a little bit more. But Ben, when I met with Ben, he brought a friend along. What was his name? Archie, forgot his last name. But he said he remembers us and he drew a map and brought it when we met with him, of where we lived from downtown Niland. So, I have that map yet and I want to go back and see if I can find it.

<Begin Segment 12>

RP: And so how long did you actually spend in Boise, Oklahoma?

YW: It must have been six months. We finished school there in June and then we, our place was ready so we moved to Rocky Ford.

RP: And did all the other five families caravan with you?

YW: Yes. To Rocky Ford.

RP: And tell us about Rocky Ford. What, what do you remember about the town or the, the layout of the area? Was it a flat kind of farming area or was there a river nearby or hills, things that you --

YW: It was a flat area. We lived off the dirt road, the end of the dirt road. We lived in a little house. The little house must have had two bedrooms. One bedroom for my mom and dad and the rest of, all the rest of us had to sleep in the other bedroom. And that's where we had that outside bathhouse. And my father would build fire underneath there, underneath the bathhouse to heat up the water. And the first time -- oh, excuse me -- the first time he did that the fire department came out because they thought our house was on fire, 'cause they saw the smoke. But he was just heating up the water. And my father would occasionally wrap up potatoes with wet newspaper and then throw it in the fire. So by the time everybody finished the bath, the potatoes would be ready so we'd have baked potatoes. And, you know the Japanese bath, you go in and you wash yourself off and, with the soap, and then you wash, wash yourself clean. And then you go in the bath to soak and, and get real relaxed. So, the water stays clean so we didn't change the water maybe once a week. And our neighbors, the other Japanese family that lived around us would come over just to take a bath in our, in our bathhouse.

RP: So it was an actual bathhouse.

YW: Uh-huh. It was a separate bathhouse.

RP: And, and the bath itself, was it a wooden bath or a, or a metal bath?

YW: It was metal and the water was piped in from our house and it was cold water, of course. (...) I remember it was one of the children's chore to start the bath water, bath fire a certain day of the week. Maybe we only took bath once a week, maybe on weekends.

RP: Can you tell us a little bit about this farm that you settled on? Who owned the farm?

YW: Oh, I think it was a person by the name of Mr. Williams. And he had my father work on his farm as a farm laborer as far as the duration of the war. And I think they got to know my father really well and realized that he was a, a good farmer. And so later he leased him some acreage on his own. And that's when we moved over to the big house which is just across the road. And this house had like sixteen rooms. So we all had our own bedroom and a parlor and a sunroom. And my mom had a sewing room and it had a huge, huge yard in front of it. It had, it must have had about thirteen, fourteen big evergreen trees and my sister and I would play tennis on the grass. It was real huge. And then we had sidewalk all the way around the house and that's where I would roller skate. And then there was a, a little building in the back and the previous owner must have had it like a playhouse for his daughter because it was like laid out like a kitchen and had a shelf and it had a, I could put my dishes and cups and I used to play by myself out there. That was a very nice place.

RP: I bet you had a great time. So, Rocky Ford was pretty much of an established Japanese farming community when you moved in to the area.

YW: Yes, yes.

RP: They were known for their cantaloupes.

YW: Yes. The Rocky Ford cantaloupes, yes.

<Begin Segment 13>

YW: There were a lot of people that lived in Colorado. Not just the people that moved into Colorado during the war, but people like my husband's family. They, they're, they were established there in Colorado.

RP: Right, they were already established there. And, because of the war hysteria and racism on the West Coast and the situation that developed with your family and your father with the FBI situation, there were, people were looking for a sanctuary, a place to go and seemingly the only state that really opened its doors was, was Colorado. And a lot in a large part due to the governor of the state, Ralph Carr.

YW: Yes, yes. There's just a book out now on the, what is it? The Politician Ralph Carr?

RP: Principled Politician: Ralph Carr.

YW: Principled Politician, yes. Have you read the book?

RP: No, I haven't.

YW: It's really good.

RP: Oh, have you read it?

YW: Yes. We went to the book signing and then we bought the book and I think I read it within the next day. It was very interesting. Once you get started you just don't want to put it down. He was quite a person.

RP: And, you know, in those, in those times, in those days it was really important to have somebody that you could rally around. So I imagine there's a great deal of appreciation and respect and admiration for Mr. Carr.

YW: It's interesting how I did not hear my parents --

RP: Talk about him?

YW: Uh-huh, talk about him.

RP: I guess he sacrificed his political career...

YW: He sure did, yes. He sure did. But I felt like we were treated pretty well.

RP: In Rocky Ford?

YW: Uh-huh. I mean, just personally I've been, I've just been treated, well, everywhere that I can remember, just my parents that had to leave the farm, but...

<Begin Segment 14>

RP: There was one experience that you had while you were attending school in Rocky Ford.

YW: Oh, when I was in the second grade we were on a field trip and on the way home from the field trip our teachers let us all stop at the ice cream store to buy some ice cream. So everybody went in and as I was going in, she wouldn't let me go in. She told me to stay out here. She says, "You wait out here and I'll bring you an ice cream cone." So she went in and brought my ice cream cone. I had to eat my ice cream cone outside by myself. And I thought, "I wonder why I can't go in the store." And I saw a sign on the window and it said, "No Japs allowed." I don't know if I could read it, but I understood that that sign had something to do with me staying outside. But I didn't ask any questions or, or, I don't know why. It's just something inside of you kind of tells you these things, I guess.

RP: This was in Rocky Ford?

YW: Uh-huh. This was Rocky Ford. And I remember I thought, "I think my teacher should have been nicer to me." And it was real interesting because she went on a cruise that summer and her cruise ship sunk and she died. And so I thought, I said, "Oh I wonder if she's getting punished because she didn't stand up for me and let me in that ice cream shop?" That thought just went right through my mind. I thought, "She's being punished."

RP: Right. There's sort of a line between stepping over and confronting that, those, that, that racism or just stepping back and accepting it.

YW: What would happen if she let me in?

RP: Right. It would have been very... strong, strong and courageous move on her part to take, for her student. She fell into line with the...

YW: I could still remember what she looks like, the teacher.

RP: Oh, what did she look like?

YW: She had this very... Ms. Jordette. I remember her name, too. Isn't that interesting?

RP: Is, was that the only store that you saw a sign like that in, or were there other...

YW: That's the only store I remember seeing the sign. But I was talking to my sister just when she was here for the funeral and she said my brother, the oldest brother, he used to have to walk his sisters to school and he would find routes where there would be no signs that says "No Japs Allowed." And I don't remember that. It's 'cause we had to come up with memories about my brother at the funeral and that was one of the memories that she had. So there must have been other signs in the windows of the stores.

<Begin Segment 15>

RP: What was there in Rocky Ford in terms of Japanese community, in terms of typical institutions like a language school or a Buddhist church, did any of those...

YW: They didn't have a church.

[Interruption]

RP: So there was no Buddhist church?

YW: No, there were no Buddhist church but they had...

RP: How did you carry on your religious activities? Did you go to a Methodist church?

YW: Oh, my mother and father would just send me to any church that our friends would take us to. And so we had neighbors, Caucasian friends in our neighborhood, and she would ask 'em if they would take us to the church. And so I went to Christian church, Methodist church, Presbyterian, or wherever our friends would take us, 'cause, because our parents thought it was important for us to get that education.

RP: And you were, so you were exposed to different religious traditions.

YW: Uh-huh. But I was not exposed to the Buddhist until we got married. We got married in the Buddhist temple. And it would have been, and we, I guess we started going to the Buddhist church in College Park, way, way later in my life. But, they used to have a building in Rocky Ford where the Japanese people got together and they showed Japanese films and our parents --

RP: The samurai movies?

YW: Yes. Ones that people cried a lot in, I can remember. None of the movies were happy movies, they were all tear-jerkers.

RP: And you didn't care for those?

YW: I didn't care for it. I didn't understand it. I just knew that it was a sad movie. But they'd go maybe once a week or something like that.

RP: And what other activities do you remember taking place in that building? Whether it was Obon... I don't know if there were Obon...

YW: I don't remember. I just remember the Japanese films. And my sister told me that they had, they used to get together, I don't know where, for mochitsuki, pounding rice on New Year's. But I don't remember that.

RP: In that, in that context of holidays, do you remember celebrating Christmas?

YW: We always had Christmas. Yeah. We always had Christmas. And I'd got to Christian church to celebrate Christmas. We'd go to Christmas Eve and I even, even would be in the plays that the church would have. And I'd play my violin and so...

RP: Oh, you played violin.

YW: I don't remember my parents ever going to these parties, but I think our neighbors just took us, my sisters and my...

RP: Uh-huh.

<Begin Segment 16>

RP: What about language issues within the family? Did your parents speak strictly Japanese or did they, did they know a little bit of English or...

YW: They spoke English. But they spoke Japanese to us, the children in the house. And then we responded to them in English. So, I never was able to speak Japanese, but I could understand it.

RP: Uh-huh. So you never went to language school at all?

YW: Oh, my husband and I tried taking our children when we got older but we didn't make it. [Laughs] It was too difficult.

RP: You said that you're mother and father spoke, because they had a very strong accent, that on occasion you would be ashamed of it, of them and didn't want your friends to hear it.

YW: Oh, I never did want them to be around me when I was with my friends. Because they had an accent. They spoke English, people could understand them, but it was different. And I just didn't want them to be near my friends. I don't know how my friends felt, but I'm sure it didn't make any difference to my friends.

RP: So your friends would come over to the house regularly? We're talking Caucasian friends?

YW: Uh-huh. Not regularly, but once in a while they'd come over.

<Begin Segment 17>

RP: Now, your father was eventually able to lease some of his own land on this farm.

YW: Yes, uh-huh.

RP: And he continued to grow strictly truck vegetables or...

YW: Yes. Onions. Onions became the staple in Rocky Ford. They had mostly onions and the melons and tomatoes, cucumbers.

RP: And, did you, did you take any or were you asked to take responsibility for farm chores or as you grew up on that, on the farm there?

YW: When I was small, I didn't do too much except watch my brother. I kind of had to babysit him. But we'd still be out on the farm. But I didn't have to... I don't remember having to weed and... oh, we had to top onions. I remember we went as a family and we topped onions. Do you know how they do that?

RP: Tell me how they do that.

YW: They, they'd pull the onion out of the ground and they'd let it, leave it until the top's kind of dry. And then once the tops get relatively dry then we'd have these shears and we'd just top 'em and then put 'em in crates. And then they'd let it sit in the crates for a few days 'til they dry a little bit more and then they put 'em in gunny sacks. And then they'd put 'em in the truck and bring 'em to the, the shed and then they would sort them. And then bag 'em for sale. But I remember my mother getting sick from the smell of the onion. 'Cause we'd have to sit there and, and chop the onion and she'd, she'd get real sick. And it really is strong smell. But, I don't remember having to weed while I was in Rocky Ford, but I had to, as I got older in Las Animas.

RP: Las Animas. That sounds like the, the bane of the, of the kids who worked, was the weeding.

YW: Oh, I know.

RP: Try anything to escape the weeds.

YW: There was never an end to it because once you finished the field then it'd start to, it's time to start over again, the beginning of the field. So there was just never an end.

RP: Even during the wintertime, was there some --

YW: Oh, in the wintertime we didn't farm. We went to school.

RP: So you, did you graduate grammar school in Rocky Ford?

YW: Let's see, I was... I finished junior high. I finished eighth grade, so, we moved to Los Animas when I was in ninth grade.

RP: And what was the, the motivation for moving to Las Animas?

YW: Well, my father and another family that, that moved to California together, went back to see if there was anything left in California that we would want to go back to. So they went back to the farm and my father couldn't find his house and he couldn't find his packing shed and he couldn't find his Caucasian friend. They were all gone. Everything was gone. So he couldn't find his friend so then he decided that there's nothing to go back to so that's when he came back to California, I mean, Colorado and decided to buy some more land. And he found some land he could buy in Las Animas. So that's what took us to Las Animas. Then he later learned that the Caucasian friend had died but he had sold his property before he died. So, he was never able to follow up on what happened to the money --

RP: There was no follow up to do that on his part.

YW: Right.

RP: He just, he just took that action and sold it without...

YW: Right, well, there was nothing legal to start with because that property was --

RP: Right, you just had a verbal agreement.

YW: Right. Even if he paid for it, he got nothing in return.

RP: So your father harbored hopes that the, that he would be able to go back and then when he did go back and realized what had happened...

YW: Right.

RP: ...that, that book was shut.

<Begin Segment 18>

YW: So I think it was back in '47 when he went back.

RP: It was '47 when he went back?

YW: 'Cause I was twelve years old. Yeah, so I was...

RP: Did you go back with him or was it just...

YW: Uh-huh. He took me and my little brother and then Mrs. Konishi went with us. Yeah, I can't remember who... no, Henry stayed home. Henry is the oldest son to Mrs. Konishi. He stayed home and took care of my two sisters that stayed. So my oldest brother drove us back to California to see if there was anything left.

RP: And do you know who owned, who this Caucasian gentleman had sold the land to?

YW: I, I never did know the name and I asked my sisters the other day and they had never heard the name either. So I guess our parents never talked about it.

RP: But everything had been removed.

YW: Everything gone. Everything was gone, the house, the packing shed, and the people were, were gone. I don't know whether he had family or, or what. It's be interesting to find out what the name, what his name was. I don't know how we'd ever find out.

RP: Do you remember your father's reaction when he saw the farm sort of completely, you know, gone? All that work and effort that he'd put into to establish a successful farming operation?

YW: I don't remember. He didn't break down and cry or anything like that.

RP: But he was Issei and part, part of being Issei was stoic and...

YW: Yeah.

RP: So, he, he didn't show outwardly any emotions.

YW: Uh-uh.

RP: But, you could, could you sense that he... did, later on, he share with you any thoughts or feelings or anything?

YW: No. I guess it's, that's the way it is.

RP: Life in California's over and you've gotta find a, create another one in Colorado. So Las Animas was the place. And, and he purchased, what, about a hundred acres?

YW: He had a hundred acres. Uh-huh.

RP: And what was his intentions to develop on that land?

YW: More truck crops, onions, tomatoes, watermelon, and he had a roadside stand. So he would always... I, I got to work in the roadside stand so he'd always say, "Okay, who made most money today? Did I make more money selling to the truckers or did you sell more at the stand?" And of course he'd make a lot more money than I did. And sometimes we'd have to wake up in the middle of the night to have help load a truck of, truckload of cantaloupes. We would pick 'em and he would have the truck all loaded in the yard and the, but the trucker somehow wouldn't be able to come until the middle of the night or something so my dad would wake us up and we'd put on our jeans and get out and get on the truck and help the trucker transfer the cantaloupes from our truck to his truck. And then he would, the trucker would give all of us a silver dollar for a reward. So then we'd go back to bed.

RP: That happened once in a while?

YW: Yeah. I just remember that one time that we had to get up. Usually it's in the daytime. But that one time, I remember, we had to get up.

RP: Life on the farm.

YW: Yeah.

RP: Uh-huh. Yoshimi, I think we'll, we'll stop here for today and, and pick it up next time we show up, but thank you, that's great.

YW: That's about all of my story.