<Begin Segment 22>

TI: Any other stories from Shelby?

GS: We had one kid from Layton, Utah, and then he was about 5'8", 5'10", weighed about 190 pounds, and he's picking up these Hawaiians, fighting with us and throwing 'em out of the hutment. [Laughs] He'd pick 'em up and throw 'em out. They all come back and they says, "Okay," we became one, they finally, well, we were gonna fight, we weren't 'no-nos.' Because of the 'no-nos' is what all this happened.

TI: Oh, explain this, now. The 'no-nos'...

GS: Okay, the 'no-nos' had originally started with the first, 442 was formed.

TI: So you're talking about the men who when they were drafted...

GS: First, first volunteers.

TI: Okay, yeah, the volunteers.

GS: Camp Shelby, Camp Shelby bunch, but we still couldn't understand their pidgin English and whatchacallit, but the Hawaiians knew there was 'no-nos' from the camps.

TI: Okay, so I want to clarify this. So the 'no-nos' meaning the men who, who when they were drafted, said 'no'? You mean, to that one, or the ones who were sent to Tule Lake?

GS: Tule Lake, Tule Lake said 'no-nos,' signed 'no,' they would fight, go to Japan.

TI: Okay, so there were men who, with the "loyalty questionnaire" said 'no-no' to questions 27 and 28, and then they were sent to Tule Lake.

GS: Right.

TI: And so, so explain now, the Hawaiians knew this.

GS: Hawaiians found out about this. That's why the conflicts between the mainlanders and Hawaiians was a, they wanted to know who wouldn't fight. If you didn't fight 'em you were a 'no-no.' If you fought 'em, you were gonna fight, so they became one.

TI: Oh, interesting. Because actually, in fact, all the mainlanders, none of them were 'no-nos' because they were all serving. But then, but the Hawaiians, you're saying, kind of used that as, what is it, almost like a name-calling kind of, that if you weren't fighting, they'd call you a 'no-no.'

GS: 'No-no.'

TI: Interesting, okay.

GS: That's why Dan Inouye...

TI: How did, yeah, how did that make you feel when they did that? When, if someone were to call you a 'no-no,' like a Hawaiian, what would that mean to you?

GS: "I'm not a 'no-no,' I'm fighting." So we fought together and then we became...

TI: Got it.

GS: But then like I say, like Danny, when they were a group, they went to Rohwer and Jerome, and they were going, you probably heard about that one.

TI: Yeah, I interviewed Senator Inouye.

GS: You know that, you know about that.

TI: So I know the story, so we have that.

GS: So that's what, that's what it was all about. So even the Hawaiians, still, they wanted to know who was gonna fight and who wasn't gonna fight. That's why, so we still had clashes, even when we were a unit.

TI: That's a good story. I didn't know that.

GS: 'Til they found out.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.