<Begin Segment 23>

TI: And so where we left off is you're now back in Denver, this is after the war, and you were describing some of your work. But before we continue with your work, can you just tell me about the Japanese and Japanese American community in Denver, and what was that like at this time?

AM: I recall that there was a lot of Japanese here in town. Before, it used to be just along Larimer Street, they used to have some stores there. But after the, when I came here after the war, the Japanese community really grew. They had a dozen Japanese restaurants, they had a couple portrait photography shops, they had a couple of fish markets, couple grocery stores with Japanese goods, employment office, they had a number of things here that we never had here before. Of course, when I say before, when my dad was ill, we came to Denver a couple times, and my recollection when I was maybe eleven, twelve years old, something like that. And it was just from one side of the street to the other side of the street, maybe a block long and that was all. There was a family here, he was a doctor, Dr. Miyamoto, and I do not know the relationship between my him and my dad, but they were very, very good friends. So whenever we used to come to Denver, we would always have to go and visit Dr. Miyamoto. And it's just like family, so I don't know what the relationship was, but there was so many other... it was really weird. They have a pool hall, they had a couple pool halls, and it's just like another little town here, just right down here on a couple streets. Couple barbers, couple beauty shops, and right now, when you go there, there's one beauty shop, I think there's still one barber, there was only one grocery store, couple restaurants, maybe three restaurants. There's 20th Street and there's Yoko's... maybe only two restaurants left.

TI: So it sounds like, so before the war, there was a sizeable Japanese and Japanese American community, and then right after the war it was much larger.

AM: Oh, it really expanded.

TI: Really expanded, and then today, you're saying, it now has gotten smaller again.

AM: Yeah.

TI: And would you say smaller than it was before the war, right before the war?

AM: I, I think that there were some bigger companies, I think there was an S. Ban company here in town. There was another company here in town that handed lot of the goods, food, things from the coast. This was their branch office type of thing. Other than that, there wasn't a whole lot of Japanese businesses, although they, there was a good population of Japanese here. But right now, it seems like our Japanese town is not as big as it was then. 'Course, I have to also say that Japanese are dispersed all throughout, they've assimilated. And the businesses have done the same thing, there's insurance companies out here, there's one out here, there's... and then, of course, the Asian influx, there's the Korean markets and Thai markets. You know, they're all Asian, they keep the same type of goods for all the nationalities.

TI: So going back to right after the war, when it was a large population, where did all the Japanese and Japanese Americans come from?

AM: Well, they came from the camps. And then they relocated here, like Amache was about two hundred, two hundred miles south of Denver. And lot of those people came out around their work release. You know, they came out to work, they went to Wyoming, they went to Nebraska, the same thing happened up in Idaho, Minidoka. People went to Montana to farm, they went to Wyoming, many places. They went to work sugar beets and whatnot. Then they came back in the wintertime and they went back out again. 'Course, I think when the camps closed, if the people didn't have holdings back to where they lived before, lot of 'em just stayed out here. They kind of got to know the people, they got to, some of 'em were short of a job when they come out, and you know, those kind of things. There's quite a few people here from Amache. I wouldn't say a lot, but there's people here from Amache. Chicago has a lot of people from the Arkansas camps, they still live there.

TI: And so you had this sort of combination of, of people who were here before the war, a sizeable community, and then you have this influx of people from the camps. How did the two groups get together? Did you notice any friction between the two groups?

AM: Not really. I think the only friction was with the Kibeis. And they had a, they marched to the beat of a different drummer, so to speak. And I know even in camp, when we had problems, it was always with the Kibeis. And they used to have a few things here with the Kibeis here, but they really never got it going. Every once in a while, you'd hear of some Kibeis, but then eventually I think most of those went back to California.

TI: What would be an example of something that, you said they'd try to get something going, what would that thing be? What type of activity would they be...

AM: With who?

TI: With the Kibei. What, when you mentioned they would "try to get something going," what would that be?

AM: Well, yeah, it appears that a lot of it had to do with the, joining the service. And, "Don't let the United States push you around," and this and that. They seemed to, to recall that they seemed to forget. These Niseis over here don't know anything else. They'd never been to Japan to be brainwashed or anything. That's what, that's what we thought, "These guys have all been brainwashed in Japan." People over here, the Niseis, they don't know anything like that, you know.

TI: And so was this happening during the war or after the war?

AM: During the war. In camps, it happened a lot. Yeah, even in the camps in the first assembly centers, they had some problems with some of those Kibeis. Then I don't know, it appears that the Kibeis that were always starting the trouble weren't family people. They were mostly young, younger bachelor type, non-married, and maybe that's what, they needed something to do. But it always appeared that it was always the Kibeis that was... [laughs].

TI: And so after the war, so this was happening, sort of, during the war, these tensions. Did you see any of that after the war? Say between people that, yeah, between, as you mentioned, Kibei or any other groups? Did you see tension?

AM: No, not so much. I would have to say that lot of the Kibeis had to forget, they had other things to do, and that was, one, to make a living. And a lot of 'em went chick sexing, that was, I know a lot of Kibeis did chick sexing. But they would have to go back east where a lot of the poultry farms were, Georgia, Pennsylvania, they went to school in Lancaster or something like that, up there in, someplace up there in Pennsylvania, they had a big chick sexing school where you learned how to, you know, determine what the sex of the chickens were, chicks. And, but I do know that a lot of the Kibeis I got to know, that's what they were doing. And I think a lot of 'em just determined, found out that, "Hey, I have to go work for a living, I can't hang around the pool halls all the time." [Laughs]

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2008 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.