<Begin Segment 23>

KL: [Addressing LP] Did you have questions about Jerome? Are there other things you want to include about Jerome, either people or... like when someone says "Jerome," is there any kind of an image or even a smell or anything that comes to mind?

EY: About the South, that's it, brings it back.

KL: Yeah, that was really eloquent, you guys already covered some of the deep questions about how you dealt with this very black/white segregated society.

EY: Yeah. So when they say Jerome, I think of that all the time. Because had I not experienced it myself, I would have a hard time really believing that people could do that to each other. But having experienced it, more so.

KL: Was the army presence or the security any different between Tule Lake and Jerome?

EY: When I was in Tule Lake, it wasn't that bad. Although at one time I remember the army tanks facing Tule Lake camp. And I don't know how long they were there, but that one time when I saw that, I wondered why it was so necessary, because we were not criminals. But as far as Jerome was concerned, there was no such thing. I think they were free to come and go if they wanted to do so. But the thing is, where would you go in the swampy land, and be eaten by a crocodile or something. So why not just stay put, kind of thing. I don't have too many memories about Jerome.

KL: Did you hear any rumors there about local people felt about the camp, the Japanese Americans?

EY: I know I heard rumors after Tule Lake. When we started the pilgrimage and how the local peoples felt about it, they resented the fact that we were there, because some of them were uprooted because they were in the way of the camp. So those people were really angry because, "Why, just to house the Japs, we had to give up our land? And we had rationing, you people had food." We had food, but what kind of food? Not like what you had, you had a choice to buy whatever you want, even if it was rationed. We didn't have any choice, we just had to eat what was given to us. So it's different. And I remember this one lady, she was going on and on about how rough a time she had outside and how we had it so good in camp. But I tried to explain to her nicely that, "It was your choice to do whatever you want, you could go wherever you want, you could get in a car and go wherever you wanted, or if you want to walk to wherever, you could do that. In a camp, you couldn't even do that. And she finally realized that there was a big difference. Yes, I had more freedom than you, but you didn't have the freedom I had. That's what I'm trying to tell you, that's the difference. And even if you had to ration your sugar, we didn't have any rationing book, the government took care of that, so we don't know anything about rationing. So she really started backing off when I tried to explain to her what we had to put up with. And you people, you had a choice. You could do whatever you wanted, we had no choice. So please understand that yes, we had it rough just like you had it rough, but it was different. She finally backed off and she said, "I'm sorry." And it was good to hear her say that, because she was out to get, and ram it into me that you had it better than I did. I said, "I beg your pardon, it's not that way."

KL: And she was a Tule Lake resident?

EY: She was a Tule Lake resident, yeah. And Jimi and I went to their Rotary Club and went to their different organization they had, to say, "How do you feel if we continue with our pilgrimage?" and all this kind of thing. Some of them were really, "I'm a redneck and I still carry a gun in my truck," that kind of people. And there were others that was, "Oh, maybe it's okay. And some of these people like her blamed us because they were uprooted. It wasn't our choice, the government did that. You can't take it out on us, it's not us. So she finally realized it, but some people still don't realize it.

KL: Have you been back to Jerome or the new museum of McGehee or any of the Little Rock exhibits or anything?

EY: Yes. We went when they had the all-camps reunion when Japanese American National Museum put it on, we went to that one. And we also went to another one where they had Jerome reunion, Jerome and Rohwer combination reunion, we went to that. We went to the Arizona reunion, too.

KL: Were those, the Arkansas reunions, were those out in Arkansas or were they here?

EY: It was in... yeah, it was in Arkansas.

KL: What were those like?

EY: It was nice in that also it brought back a lot of memories for us. We talked about the swamp land and all that. Other than that, it wasn't bad because there was not that many security or guard towers around, like Jimi keeps talking about that. But because it was not a segregation center, it was just a regular camp-camp, so it was okay.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.