Densho Digital Archive - Ko Nishimura Interview (denshovh-nko-01-0017)

<Begin Segment 17>

KL: This is tape number three, we're finishing up an interview with Ko Nishimura on July 14, 2015. There are just a few more names I want to ask about relative to guayule, and the first one is the president of Cal Tech, Dr. Millikin. Do you have any awareness of his role in the project?

KN: I know who he is. Anybody in science knows who Millikin is, so I know who he is. The Millikin Drop Experiment, right? Anyway, I don't know him personally. I have never heard Uncle Shimpei talk about him, so I don't know. I'm sure Uncle Shimpei knew who he was, but I don't.

KL: Ralph Merritt, the director of Manzanar for most of the time, did you hear much about him or ever encounter him?

KN: Yeah, I became aware of Merritt through my grandmother. She used to mention his name, sometimes pretty frequently. And I'm not sure my grandmother agreed with him, that's why. [Laughs] I don't think having them just telling you, it seemed like she didn't trust him, somehow. So that's where it was. I used to hear his name all the time.

KL: Do you have a sense for what specifically she had concerns about him for? Shimpei would tear that sentence apart with his red pen.

KN: Not really Shimpei, it was my grandmother. It's her perception of the man.

KL: Yeah. I just meant I worded that question really poorly. Do you know what she was concerned about?

KN: Well, I think, to my grandmother, she was a person of value. So she felt betrayed by him, I think, somehow. I don't know how. You just listen to this side conversation, you don't ask questions because she's your grandmother, right? So you listen to this thing and go, hmm, somehow she doesn't like the man. And basically it seemed like there was some sort of betrayal. Somehow it almost came across as he stole her dignity from her, which was a no-no to a Japanese, right? Because I heard that name, Merritt, all the time. But she would be talking to her friends about it, I just happened to be there.

KL: Yeah, and you were young, that's important to hear, too.

KN: You've got no opinions, so you're listening, just don't say anything. So that's why I'm aware of the name. By the way, I have no opinion on Merritt.

KL: No, thank you. It's good to hear what older people, what people thought.

KN: Yeah. I don't know what it is, and maybe you could tell me one day what it might be.

KL: Yeah, I mean, we can talk more about him a little bit if you want to, even later today.

KN: Okay, go ahead.

KL: Both Dorothea Lange and Ansel Adams photographed people in the guayule project. Did you hear about that?

KN: Yeah, they both seemed to have whitewashed the thing from my perspective. I was seeing the pictures and stuff. Is Dorothea Lange the one, the children of the camp?

KL: Satsuki Ina, the filmmaker, Satsuki Ina made a film Children of the Camp.

KN: No, no. Dorothea Lange had a set of pictures, she was commissioned by the government to do that, right? Positive pictures, right?

KL: Ansel Adams has a stronger reputation for that.

KN: Okay, both of them did that, I know. I know Ansel did. But anyway, they're a nice set of picture, but they're not Toyo Miyatake pictures.

KL: That's true.

KN: And there's a stark difference between the two, that's why.

KL: Did you know the Miyatake family, or Toyo? What do you remember about him?

KN: I met him, because he was in camp. The family knew him. My cousin Fumi is married to one of the sons. Well, he passed away, but we sort of knew them. My grandparents knew the Miyatakes very well, I guess, but I just happened to know him because my cousin Fumi was married to one of the Miyatake sons, the one you never hear about. You only hear about Archie, this is Richard, he passed away. If you notice, even when Archie talks, there's two kids in the picture. He never talks about his brother, and I don't know why. I'm not trying to make a big deal about it, but... and Richard never talked about it to me.

KL: Can you tell us your impressions of Richard and what he was like as a person?

KN: Well, he was a photographer, too. And a matter of fact, he did my son's wedding pictures when he got married. And he's a very nice person, a sensitive person, very quiet-spoken person, noncontroversial. So he seemed like he's just a nice person. And every time we got together we chatted, you know, laughed kind of a thing. And he was a good person to have in your extended family. Because I'm pretty close to all my cousins.