<Begin Segment 36>

KL: Did I leave things out? Are there other things you guys wanted to report about any aspect of your lives or your folks' lives?

MS: I don't think so. I think you pretty much covered everything. I think you got more than you should have gotten. [Laughs]

KL: I really would like to come back tomorrow and ask you more about, you know, like what you and your friends did in Topaz, and who you liked to dance with and stuff.

MS: I don't really remember too much. The social aspect would have been Tsuki. She was the social butterfly.

ST: I spent a lot of time on the horizontal bar.

KL: You did?

ST: Yeah, I was pretty good at it.

KL: Did you help build it?

ST: No, it was there behind one of the barracks.

MS: I told you he was always the health freak.

LP: You did gymnastics, is that what your...

ST: Yeah.

KL: Where was it, the bar?

ST: Alongside one of the barracks.

KL: Close to yours?

ST: Oh, yeah.

KL: We keep asking these specific questions because at Manzanar, we just finished having a big volunteer project where one of the things they did was reconstruct a basketball court in Block 14. So I kind of have in my mind maybe in twenty years at Topaz, someone will be reconstructing the bar that you did gymnastics on, or trying to stabilize the garden that your dad built. Are there any other gardens that you remember at Topaz, or any other gymnastics equipment or playgrounds or anything? What do you remember?

MS: There was also a large garden that they made alongside the mess hall. That was kind of a community project, you remember?

KL: In Block 30?

MS: Yeah. I'm sure other people had gardens made, too.

KL: Do you know who designed or built the mess hall garden?

MS: No. I think they all just kind of got together and talked it over, because they didn't have a pond or anything there, they just had the rocks and they had kind of mounded with plants around. I imagine the professional gardeners had something to do with that.

ST: Could be.

MS: Put their two bits worth in. Yeah, I don't think the gardens were that unusual.

KL: They're very special, though, I think.

MS: Yeah, well, Dad's was very special to me, it was very nostalgic when I saw those things, the rocks and things that he had put in.

KL: When did he spend time out there? Was it all day long, or did he go out in the evenings?

MS: Well, I recall his work schedule was kind of sporadic, he'd be gone part of the day and then he'd come back and putter around. I imagine all of you helped him dig that pond, though.

ST: Huh?

MS: I would imagine all of you helped him to dig that pond, that was a pretty big pond.

ST: I don't remember doing anything with it. [Laughs]

MS: Oh, yeah? Gee, because we were at school, too, so we didn't know what he was doing during the day, but it's what he dug up is what he mounded over to make the little rows.

KL: Did he putter around with it the whole time you were in Topaz, or did he make it and then leave it?

MS: Pretty much make it and leave it.

KL: Do you guys remember basements in Topaz?

MS: Basements?

KL: Did people ever dig out cellars?

MS: No, no.

KL: Do you remember some? Well, I guess the last sort of big question that I had is what... I mentioned that in Topaz in twenty years they might be doing a restoration project. There is a museum there, as you know, and people are working on creating exhibits and stuff. What do you guys hope in fifty years, you know, when visitors are going to Topaz, what do you hope they will learn there, or what kind of experience do you want them to have? What do you want them to understand about Topaz?

ST: That it returns to a desert and forget about it. [Laughs]

MS: If anything, that it shouldn't happen again. It's kind of a bad mark on history for the United States, I'm afraid.

KL: That's a question I have sometimes about the past. Do you really think it would be better to try to forget it, to bury it, or do you think it's important to remember Topaz and to talk about it?

MS: I don't think we even have to talk about it anymore, because I think all of you have done such a great job of reconstituting a lot of the past for us, you know?

KL: Well, we couldn't do it without these oral histories. That's what I tell visitors when they come to Manzanar, is stories people have told me as well as what's documented from the '40s.

MS: Well, time is running out, because we're all getting there. [Laughs]

KL: What do you think, Sat? Do you think it's important to remember and to have these museums, or do you think it would be better to let it lie?

ST: I've forgotten all about it myself, so... something that happened that shouldn't have.

MS: Yeah, but if the museums aren't there, then people won't know about it. I think it's kind of interesting that they just started this, the one in Hawaii. The people that we know from Hawaii didn't even know, and they were there at the time, and they didn't know about it. So they're just starting their history project.

LP: Is that Honouliuli that you're talking about?

MS: Yeah. It's a part of history that shouldn't be forgotten, I think.

KL: Well, thank you guys very much for coming, and it's 12:41, so you've spent a lot of hours of a special day, actually, with us. So thank you very much.

<End Segment 36> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.