<Begin Segment 19>

KL: Well, I want to respect your time and get you home sort of at a decent hour. So just a few more questions, one is, Tule Lake is now a unit of the National Park Service, has been for the last seven years I guess. Do you know any of the background of how that decision was made, to include it in the National Park Service?

SK: No, I don't. You'll have to ask Larisa, she probably knows better than I do.

KL: What did you think when you heard that news?

SK: Great. I mean, well, on one level you should say, you know, you say the past should remain the past, because that's what a lot of Nisei have been saying, "Oh, it happened a long time ago, don't talk about it." On the other hand, it should be recorded, because it could happen again.

KL: What do you want... so the National Park Service has been having a lot of public meetings, I went to one of the conferences in Seattle to try to take people's input on how the site will develop and what stories it will tell and how. What would you like to see at Tule Lake in twenty years?

SK: I'd like to see an interpretive center like Manzanar has, and a barrack, at the minimum. Of course, they are, right now, concentrating on that stockade, which is an important part, too, but I think in addition to that, there should be an interpretive center.

KL: And a barrack replica?

SK: Oh, and some kind of obelisk to remember those who died there. Because you remember that vast area? I think it was that year that, 2012 that we went, and you know how when you go there you can take any bus you want? And so the ladies behind me, we get there and she says, "But there's nothing there."

KL: At the cemetery you're talking about?

SK: Yeah. Or what was the cemetery. So there should be some kind of memorial for that.

KL: What do you want people to take away from these hypothetical visitors in twenty years? What do you want them to understand about Tule Lake? You said there should be a visitor center, what should be included in that or what do you think are the really important... what's the important legacy of Tule Lake, I guess is a good way to phrase that.

SK: Well, the country made a huge mistake, but it also acknowledged it. People think that the acknowledgement was nothing, but it was huge. People felt free after that, freer and more comfortable about talking about it. Because there was so much shame attached to it. So the fact that there was redress, that there was a letter of apology, that kind of thing, is important to point out. Because I know a lot of people who wouldn't talk about it, some still don't want to talk about it.

KL: We were talking during a break, and during my last visit to San Francisco, about the legacy of the process of segregation and that questionnaire, and I do want to record your take on that.

SK: That's been very harsh and very difficult. As I say, he expected a certain hostility from the non-Nikkei, but when it came from the Nikkei, that's really hurtful because they're being too judgmental, not knowing why people made the decisions that they make. For example, in my case, our case, we were too young. My sister, well, she was just old enough, she was sixteen at the time, so by the time it came, of course... where were we to go? We had no place to go. We stayed there because of a decision my father made. What were we to do? So we remained in Tule Lake. And it's like the recent comment by Trump saying all people from Mexico are criminals, you're putting, generalizing, over-generalizing, and I think that's dangerous in any case. And I think one of the things that I've learned from it is not to be too judgmental, you don't know what's going on in other people's lives.

KL: Well, maybe that's actually part of the answer to the last sort of big question that I had. And you mentioned current events and Donald Trump's media statements. In the last year, there's been, I think, in some cases, a pretty public, even in the last several weeks, conversation about race and the legacy of racism. Do you see any advice or any lessons from you own life or from your observation of the 20th century Japanese American history that are relevant to the country's ongoing issues with race? What are those?

SK: Live and let live. Each of us wants to live to his potential. Each of us wants to raise our families in a peaceful, accepting environment, regardless of who we are. And to judge people because of what they look like or their general preferences are, uh-uh, that doesn't sit well with me, no. People say, "Gays are fine, I have a good friend who is, I have several good friends who are gay." And I have one friend who was gay from Boston, and he was one of my best friends. And his life was ruined because it was used against him. And that kind of thing shouldn't happen.

KL: Are there other things that you expected to talk about or wanted to talk about?

SK: I think we've covered it pretty much. [Laughs] Something would come up, but yeah.

KL: Well, I hope we'll stay in touch, and if things do come up that you want included just in this record, please let me know, and thank you so much.

SK: You're welcome.

KL: We've been hoping that this could happen for the last several years at least, so I'm really glad we had this time together today.

SK: So I'm glad you're going to share it with Larisa, because I don't know if I could do it again. [Laughs] I certainly would forget some of the things I've said.

KL: Well, I think these oral history interviews, too, are one way of, like you say, showing how individual people's time was and people's motives and effects were. So anyway, on behalf of the Nation Park Service, both Manzanar and Tule Lake, and selfishly myself, thank you for agreeing to this.

SK: You're very welcome.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.