<Begin Segment 16>

KL: And how many kids do you have?

SK: Three, all boys. The oldest, he has problems. He has mental issues, so whenever the shootings go on and they say it was a mentally ill person, I just shake my head, and I really felt sorry for these families. Because you can't imagine what it's like living with a mentally ill person. It is really tough; it is really, really tough. And for me, I mean, I could not have survived it if Hiroshi did not step up and do his part of it.

KL: Your son was born with mental issues?

SK: No, he was born early, but he had all kinds of problems, and he was teased and bullied in school, so that, and really poor self image, and when eighteen, he turned eighteen, he started having... and then on top of that, just about the same time, he started hearing voices, he was in a bicycle accident and had a head injury. I didn't know it at the time, but years later, years later, found out that his impulse control was damaged.

KL: With the injury?

SK: Yeah, with the injury. But, I mean, that's a horror story in itself, because at that time, mental... I can't say it's the best now, but at least he's willing to take his meds, and he has a caregiver. And our youngest son lives in Sacramento as well, so he does his share. In fact, he's the one who bought an apartment in this gated community and Tosh pays him rent from what he gets. But then it doesn't cover what he's paying. Anyway, it just happened that he started going to the handicapped center in San Francisco, which is real close to our house, and he met this family and he really hit it off. And John and Joe and Cathy, Cathy wasn't going there in the head injury program, and Joe was a client there because he had a football injury, and then John was taking care of him. But anyway, he got real close with that family. So when they moved to Sacramento, they knew that we were looking for a place for Tosh. And so they brought him to Sacramento with them. At first he moved in with them, but that didn't sit well with the county, so then he had to have his own place. And, you know, people really praised him and everything. I said he discontinued that mental hospital, which was a good thing, but they didn't put anything in its place. So to this day, there's this mental health, and then when was it? One of the shootings, psychiatry -- you know, how they do all this talk on the television -- says, well, it's a mental health issue. But she said there's, there are very strict guidelines. Unless the patient is a danger to himself or to others, the police can't do anything, their hands are tied. Well, by the time he is a danger to somebody, thirteen, twenty-six kids are killed, this kind of stuff. And she says there isn't a good mental health system in place, and I'd sit there and yeah, this is true. My neighbor who had a friend who had a son with the same kind of... he wouldn't take his medicine. This friend was so afraid to stay at home after he retired, that she would go to the Y and stay practically all day. I mean it is a -- I mean, you can't even begin to imagine what it's like. So we survived it.

KL: And he's your oldest?

SK: He's our oldest. And we've been lucky because he takes his medicine. He lived with us for over twenty years, it got to a point where our age and everything, I told him, "Tosh, we're not kicking you out, but we're not getting any younger either. We need to put you somewhere before there's a big crisis."

KL: You know that it's resolved and your other sons know that it's resolved.

SK: Yeah.

KL: So I know a little bit about Soji just because of Grateful Crane, but what about your other two kids?

SK: They're a blessing, you know what I mean? I had a friend who had one child and she had a very hard... in fact, she was my colleague, severe heart problem, and she was going to have this surgery, and luckily everything worked out fine. But I said to Hiroshi, I said, "I'm glad we had both Soji and Hiroshi." Because if it was just one child and something happened to that one child, it would have been really tough, I mean, tougher than it was already. And because Soji and Hiroshi, you know, they missed out on a lot, because of him, they couldn't even invite their friends to the house. But you know, they really stepped up and I think they're more compassionate people because of it. But we don't talk about it, but I think that's one of the reasons Soji and Keiko don't have kids, because there's that family thing. And my sister Tomiye had mental health issues and she's the one right below me, four years younger. So you know, there's a family history. So then she had some health issues on her side, so I think that's one of the reasons they don't have kids. And it's just as well because they're real busy with what they're doing.

[Interruption]

KL: So we're back, this is tape three with Sadako Kashiwagi, and we had started talking a little bit about Soji and then kind of ran out of time on the tape.

SK: Well, as you know, he's involved with the Grateful Crane, and then been in it now for almost fourteen years. And I'm really, really proud of the work they're doing, and they really work hard, let me tell you, they work hard. Everyone works hard. And they're going -- did you see "Nihonmachi"?

KL: No, I've never seen any of their shows, I've heard some CDs, but I've never seen them perform.

SK: Well, "Nihonmachi" is about the '40s Nihonmachi that no longer existed. And in the beginning, Nihonmachi used to have manju, the confection, Japanese confection shops, and so this story is based around how the Japanese community's life kind of revolved around, that was one of the main, the fish market and the manju shop were very important in Japantown. So when San Francisco celebrated its hundredth year Japantown, Paul Osaki, who's the director, suggested that he write something about Japantown because they had done Camp Dance. So he went around interviewing people and interviewing the owner of Fugetsu-Do down in L.A., and did a show around that. And the show went around and it was quite popular and came to San Francisco and it went to Sacramento. And the reason I want to mention this is that that show saved their, the confection shop.

KL: Oh, really?

SK: It was about ready to close down. And they did the show there and people starting coming to the shop, and they've been able to maintain and sustain.

KL: Wow.

SK: So you know, it's really nice to hear that, that they're making that kind of a difference.

KL: Well, what's neat, I think, too, about that company, the Grateful Crane, is that they seem really committed to just an ethic of appreciation.

SK: Uh-huh, uh-huh. And so they came to San Francisco last year, and a lot of my friends from the senior center went, and maybe one or two were Japanese, interested in any kind of Japanese. And a lot of, about forty percent of the songs were Japanese, but that didn't bother people because they appreciated the spirit in which it was done. And this "Nihonmachi" was done recently, about four or five years ago maybe in L.A. And Soji says it's a much better show because the actors are now more mature, they bring that to their parts. And then the consul general saw it down in L.A., he really liked it, and then he was assigned to Portland, and he got the Portland people excited about it. So Portland is sponsoring them on November the 9th this year. And they got an educational grant, and so it's going to be during the day, on a Monday. And they're inviting the local schools to send their kids, and then in the evening it's going to be open to the public.

KL: Oh, that's neat. There's a person I know up there who's helped organize an oral history trip before, and she loves cultural events. I'll have to make sure she knows about it.

SK: Right, November the 9th, the Grateful Crane, and the show is "Nihonmachi."

KL: I wanted to ask you too about your, the rest of your parents' lives. What were their lives like after leaving Tule Lake.

SK: Oh, okay, but can I mention our other son?

KL: Yeah, yeah, please do.

SK: Hiroshi works for the U.S. government in the Energy Department. He doesn't like his job, but he volunteers a lot for the community. And so he's really... he complains, complains, complains, but he's really very soft-hearted, he really is. And he helps our son, helps in whatever way he can, he volunteers at the Placer Buddhist church for the bazaar, he volunteers for, he's coming here for this bazaar, and he volunteers for the Sacramento bazaar.

KL: It sounds like your dad in some ways.

SK: Well, yeah. Very...

KL: Being so involved?

SK: Uh-huh. So I pat myself on the back, I said, "We did a pretty good job with our kids." [Laughs]

KL: Yeah.

SK: As I say, their brother being like that, I think it was hard on them, but they're better people because of it.

KL: Yeah, I wonder if it teaches you not to judge people so quickly.

SK: Right, exactly.

KL: That you don't know everything that's going on.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.