Densho Digital Archive - Kenji Ogawa Interview (denshovh-okenji

<Begin Segment 21>

KL: This is tape number three, we're wrapping up an interview on May 21, 2015, with Kenji Ogawa. Why are you laughing at me?

RM: Because it sounds like you forgot what year it was.

KL: Oh, I did, but then I remembered. So you said as we were talking that you never talked about Manzanar or Tule Lake really. When did you start hearing about Manzanar or Tule Lake, or realize that this a was kind of different?

KO: You know, I guess when I met Dr. Bo, it started to get a little interesting. My mom used to talk about it, not that much into it. My mom don't talk too much, my dad don't talk at all.

KL: What did Dr. Bo tell you, or how did it start to get interesting?

KO: Well, you know, my mom used to tell, "Dr. Bo used to babysit you all the time." Then the whole family used to babysit, his sister.

KL: And you said your parents never... well, I guess I should ask you for the tape. Did your parents ever return to Manzanar or Tule Lake?

KO: No, never did. Never.

KL: And they lived for... they had pretty long lives.

KO: Yeah.

KL: When did your parents pass away? When did they die?

KO: Mom, what, ten years ago?

KL: Maybe 2001, I thought. And your dad a little bit before her?

KO: About seven years before.

KL: So they were still living in the 1980s when there was testimony in Los Angeles about what it was like to be in the camps and with the presidential apology. What did they think of all of that?

KO: You know, they get a, remember the payback, $20,000. They didn't say too much. You know, they should have given more (to) the older people who passed away, they should have given those people. I was just a baby, just born over there. But they should have given those who passed away, older people.

KL: But they were pretty quiet about all of that?

KO: You don't talk about too much.

KL: It didn't really change for them.

KO: No, no. You ask him, they talk.

KL: What did you think of the redress movement and the apology and the check?

KO: To me, they should have given it early. See, a couple of my friends, they're really active, to get apology. But they're doing a long time, those people, long time. You know, a lot of people already have people there already.

KL: Who were your friends who were active with that movement?

KO: Well, Arthur Ishi?

KL: Tateishi?

KO: (No).

KL: John.

KO: What's the other guy? Victor? Victor Shibata?

KL: Oh, you're friends with Victor Shibata?

KO: Yeah.

KL: Tell us about him, because he was really important to Manzanar, but I don't know...

KO: Yeah, he was really active, those two were really active way before those guys.

KL: Did they ever tell you why it was so important to them?

KO: See, I never talked to... they don't know, I think, I'm born in camp. We don't talk about it. But (I know) they were active, those guys.

KL: Why were they so active? Why did it mean so much to them?

KO: I guess the mother? Mother was really active. His mother was really active.

KL: Victor Shibata's mother?

KO: No, Ishi. Yeah, the mother was really active.

KL: Your friend, was his name Ishi or Tateishi?

KO: Ishi.

KL: Ishi. What's his first name?

KO: Art.

RM: Can you spell his last name? Is it with two I's at the end or just one?

KO: One. Victor has passed away.

KL: I know, and he is really important to Manzanar, but I don't know very much about him. What was his personality like?

KO: Young day, we used to play baseball. He was my enemy. [Laughs] He was a nice guy, real nice.

KL: Is that how you met, through baseball?

KO: (Her) brother-in-law, I guess, hang around. One day he came to our house, "I know this guy, we used to play baseball together." (...) Even then I don't talk about camp, brother-in-law, he was born in camp, Manzanar, too, but (we) never talked about camp. All the guys think I was born in Japan, so I never mentioned born in camp.

KL: Did they know that your family was -- did Victor Shibata know that your family was at Tule Lake also?

KO: I don't think so, nobody.

KL: What was Victor Shibata's job?

KO: He was a what? Chiropractor. (...)

KL: Did he tell you any of his memories of being in camp?

KO: [Shakes head].

[Interruption]

KL: Do you remember how he reacted to the apology and the check?

KO: I think it was good, they tried so hard, those two.