<Begin Segment 9>

RM: So maybe, let's talk about what the other members of the family were doing during this time. You already mentioned that your sister was there when Janice was born. And then Ben joined the army, when did that happen?

PS: I'm not sure when he joined the army, but he was, he had to be... let's see. Because I have a picture of him. And Jean was really young, it had to be, like, maybe after a year they were there that he was drafted. I know he was... no, he wasn't married, he got drafted.

RM: He was drafted into the army?

PS: Yeah. So he must have signed "yes-yes."

RM: Maybe. There's some confusion, but I think you could be drafted even if you signed "no-no."

PS: Oh, really?

RM: Yeah. But drafting started in January of 1944, so he must have been drafted right after that, because otherwise it would have been volunteering if it were after the "loyalty questionnaire" in '43.

PS: Okay. So I don't know when he... all I know is he was in the army.

RM: Yeah. And he was married?

PS: He wasn't married.

RM: Not married yet. And what about your mom's sisters?

PS: Well, Hide was married, had a son, and also Sueko or Shizu was married, had a daughter. They both went to Chicago, and I don't know whether they went together or separately, but I know my one aunt Shizu said that once they got there, her husband got drafted. And so she was looking for work.

RM: And she had children.

PS: She had one daughter, she was three years old. She was a latchkey kid because she was told, my aunt would tell her, "Don't open this door for anyone." And I think Hide was just a housewife, though she did become a hairdresser, so maybe they went to school.

RM: Do you know what year they left for Chicago?

PS: You mean from the camps?

RM: Yeah.

PS: See, I don't know when they left. I know that my mother was alone, I know they were all gone.

RM: Yeah, okay. And her mom was still there, but that wouldn't have necessarily been helpful to her raising you and your sister at that point.

PS: I don't think she helped. I know my grandma was still there, and she probably lived with Uncle Ben up until he got drafted.

RM: Yeah. Do you know what happened after he got drafted and what she did?

PS: I'm sure my mother was living with him by then, with them. So she probably... she doesn't say too much other than my grandmother would... she said that my uncle decided to give up a portion of their barrack to this other family because they had a larger family than them. And my grandmother used to scream and bang on the wall. I guess they must have either had a wall built, and used to call them thieves because they stole her portion of her barrack, because she knew the size it used to be. [Laughs]

RM: Do you know if your mom or your uncle or your grandma ever did any, just, things inside of those barracks to make them more livable?

PS: No, I can't remember any, if my mom ever said anything. I don't think my mother had any money per se, and I don't know whether she could have worked having a child already and being kind of alone.

RM: Right. So you mentioned that your dad at least went on beet furlough once, and that was when, fall of 1942.

PS: Well, because I think that was to make some extra cash, right? And then I'm sure his parents were saying if he made some extra cash, then they could buy a few things. It seemed logical to me. When I used to say that to my mother, it did not settle well with her, and it was like I was siding with him.

RM: So he comes back from beet furlough sometime in the fall of '42. Do you know anything about how, what it was like for the three of them to be living together and now this new baby?

PS: You know, she never talked about their life together there. Because how long were they gone, usually, for beet topping, for months?

RM: Couple months.

PS: So he would have been back by the first of the year, probably. So I have no idea what they did. My mom never says. She never said to me anything about what they did. All I know then is that she's pregnant again, obviously they got along, and she becomes pregnant with me.

RM: Did she ever talk about any things in camp like the Manzanar Free Press for example?

PS: She said that Sueko was the editor or she used to write articles, that's about it.

RM: Okay. And then another big thing to ask about is that in December of 1942 there was an event that is often called the "Manzanar Riot."

PS: Oh, she remembered that.

RM: She does remember that? What did she tell you about the Manzanar Riot?

PS: She said someone got shot, but she never said why he got shot, she just knows there was a riot, and it wasn't good.

RM: Did she remember any tensions in the camp that led up to that or preceded it?

PS: No. My mother never got into, like, political stuff.

RM: It sounds like she had her hands full also.

PS: She never talked about that, she did mention that the guns were on those towers, you knew not to go very close to the barbed wire. She said you didn't do that.

RM: Did she ever interact with the military police?

PS: No.

RM: So I guess my next questions are going to be sort of big ones, because they're going to be about the "loyalty questionnaire," and we only have three minutes left on this tape. So I want to ask maybe if there's anything about Manzanar, either its location or just physical things that your mom would tell you about. You mentioned the guard towers and the fence, did she ever talk about leaving the camp for any reason?

PS: No. No, she never said that she left, she just... just the wind and the dust.

RM: Did she remember the landscape at Manzanar, that really shocking wall of mountains that's right there?

PS: No. My mother really wasn't the kind of usual kind of person. [Laughs] Every time I'd want to take her somewhere to look at something or go to the museum, she said, "I don't like doing that, Pat." [Laughs]

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.