<Begin Segment 24>

KL: You kind of touched around this, but when and how did you find out that your, being born in Manzanar, having lived for a while in Manzanar was kind of unusual?

PS: I don't think I thought it was unusual.

KL: Really?

PS: Yeah. I guess I never thought of it as being... well, once I found out where I was born, because by then I was kind of old. I probably thought I was born in Los Angeles all that time. So I never thought anything about it. But once I had to put Manzanar, I know people, whenever I put Manzanar before, they didn't know where it was, and even if you mentioned Lone Pine, do you think anybody recognized Lone Pine?

KL: I talked to someone else once who was about your age, she was born in another one of the camps, and she kind of figured things out around the same time as you did, and it was when Farewell to Manzanar was, came out, was published. And she said that caused a big stir in the Buddhist church she was part of, and a lot of people sort of in groups segregated by age were talking about that book and what they thought of it.

PS: When did it come out?

KL: I think '73. It was not long after the first pilgrimages, what became Manzanar pilgrimages.

PS: Gee, maybe I even found out about it then, just because of the book, or the movie. Was it the movie that came out first, or the book?

RM: The book.

PS: I may not have read it, my mother might not have...

KL: I just wondered if there was a moment, if it was when the pilgrimages began, or if there was one moment or circumstance that caused you to have that awareness and how you reacted to, that this was different than people who were African American or white people or whatever.

PS: No, I don't think I thought anything about it other than I was born in Manzanar. I knew that not very many people were born there.

KL: Did you and/or your mom go to the commission hearings in Los Angeles during the redress movement?

PS: I didn't. I don't know whether my mother did, but knowing my mother, she probably didn't go because she was never political about anything. She never voiced an opinion about anything. Sueko would have gone. [Laughs]

KL: Well, I wondered also if, so your mom was going to the pilgrimages way before you started going, is that right?

PS: Right.

KL: Did any of her siblings to with her?

PS: No. Auntie Sue, or Shizu, stayed in Chicago and never went. But you did have a statement about her one time in the exhibit.

RM: Oh, really?

PS: Yeah, that she must have given to Sueko or something, or someone. And then Uncle Ben never came. Oh, and I did bring my cousin, his daughter came with me. And I don't think anybody else. I still haven't gotten one of my sisters to come, she keeps saying it has nothing to do with her.

KL: Did your mother ever say anything about those earlier pilgrimages, what they were like, what she bought?

PS: No, because she was never verbal about any of the, she would have never joined in in any discussion. She would not have even heard that. She may have been in the hotel room, for all I know. Because I'm sure Sueko probably spoke to someone at the Park Service, right?

KL: She actually spoke to all kinds of people, Park Service and other people who had been in Manzanar.

PS: I think it would have gone right over my mom's head.

KL: So she didn't necessarily go out to the cemetery or to Manzanar, she just kind of was riding with Sue?

PS: She would go wherever Sueko went, that's all. And I'm sure that if... I don't know what she did in the beginning, but towards the end, because of her health issues, she couldn't walk very far. What it was is she was doing her other medication, but she kept saying she knew what she was taking. But it was, all of them were in one container, and she'd pick 'em out.

KL: When you would go with her to the pilgrimages, did you guys go out to the cemetery and join speakers and stuff?

PS: Oh, yeah, we went to everything. I even got her to go into some of the discussions. But she would have to tell me something that I could discuss, because she wasn't going to say anything.

KL: So she told you, sort of, as a filter, things that she was thinking?

PS: Yeah. I would ask, "Did this happen, Mom? What do you remember about it?" I hear somebody else, she'd tell me, and then I could tell them what she told me. But she wasn't going to talk about it.

KL: You said that Sue thought that it was, Sue wanted your mom to talk because she thought it was important for her to, she thought it was important for her. I wonder if you could say any more about how, why she thought it was important, what Sue thought would happen if your mom talked about it?

PS: I think she thought my mother still was angry about my father, and I think she thought that she could then let it go. I think that was the main thing, was that... by my mother never said anything.

KL: I wondered if you would just tell us sort of your, more about Sue, about your impressions of her as a person, like what drove her, what she was like to be around, just give us your description of her?

PS: Oh, I just think she was very strong. I think she wanted to voice her opinion, and she was determined to have people know what happened. Because she knew there were a lot of people like my mother, and everybody would forget that this ever happened. And it could happen again, and I think she wanted people to know. And she did it in a nonviolent way. I think she did good.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.