<Begin Segment 13>

KL: It kind of sounds like your mother and Ben's relationship evolved maybe partially because of Manzanar, but certainly while they were in Manzanar.

PS: Right.

KL: Could you say anything more about...

PS: I just think because he wasn't married, he was one of the siblings that wasn't married, that he was looking after his mother and his sister that was alone in the beginning. Because I even asked Mom, I said, "Did Uncle Ben greet you when you came?" and she said, "I don't remember." Because, "Did he fill you mattress with straw?" She said, "I don't know."

KL: But it sounds like she definitely maybe relied a little more on him.

PS: Right. Well, it would have been the same when they lived here in Boyle Heights, he was the head of the household, so he was in the same position even in camp. Because he really didn't get married until later.

RM: Did he end up serving in Europe with the 442?

PS: No. I don't remember him... I could ask my cousin, but I don't think he was in actual combat.

RM: And I made an assumption, but was he in the 442nd?

PS: No, I don't think so.

RM: Do you know what part of the army he was in?

PS: No. Can you tell by their uniform? [Laughs]

RM: Not me, but somebody could.

KL: Yeah, I was just curious because you said in Boyle Heights when she was high school age, he was nominally head of household, but nobody was really paying any attention.

PS: Nobody was paying attention to him. My mother said he had these rules, but she said they were ridiculous, nobody would pay attention to those things. She said, "You have to be home at ten," she said. Who's going to listen to coming home at ten?

KL: But their treatment of each other was different by the time they were in Manzanar?

PS: I think she just relied on him to help her out. But I think outside it was different, she was alone a lot. He was at work. In camp they were there, and I don't think she was afraid of ever being harmed or anything. All I know is that we ran free there, or my sister did. I don't think my mother was the type of person that hovered over her child.

RM: I guess it made me think of one question before we move beyond the camp era in your mom's life. I was just thinking about her answer, or how she told you she felt about that "loyalty questionnaire," and how she said, "I'll join the WACs, I'll join the WAVEs, I'll join anything," it's such a strong statement of, "I belong in this country, I want to remain in this country." Did she ever talk to you about how she felt about the fact that she was... so that statement sounds so strongly American and how she felt about the fact that this country put her as an American citizen into that camp. Did she ever talk about that?

PS: I think she kind of believed the propaganda a little bit, that they were actually protecting them against harm from people, the hate that was out there. I think she kind of believed that a little bit. Plus, she was in really no situation to feel any other way. For her, it actually wasn't bad because the government was taking care of her, she didn't have to go on welfare yet.

RM: So in some ways, it helped her situation to be in Manzanar.

PS: Right. And she could be independent when she was not happy with her husband or his family, she could be independent and just walk away. Whereas if she lived outside the camp, you couldn't just up and leave, you'd have to have a job, you'd have to have something.

RM: Yeah, it's such a mind-boggling situation. Because on the other hand, it makes me think if that "loyalty question" was never asked, how would the history of your family have turned out from there.

PS: They may have stayed together. You know, they would have worked out their problems, or they wouldn't have been living with his parents. I mean, for all these people to be living in these close quarters, I think it was difficult.

RM: Sure, that it exacerbated everything.

PS: And plus, I'm sure they didn't speak English. And what English they knew, they couldn't really communicate.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.