<Begin Segment 12>

RM: Did she tell you about when you were born? It sounds like you know about Janice going to the orphanage during that time. If you could just tell us about that.

PS: Well, Janice went to the orphanage and had to stay there, I would say two to three weeks, is that how long they used to have women after they gave birth? Seemed like a long time, whatever my mother said, 'cause she even had time to visit Janice at the orphanage, but she couldn't take her back. And she was distraught because she was in those pants, and she liked her dresses. I know I always wore a dress, she always had us in dresses. I don't know where she got the money, though. Did they give money to...

RM: They gave clothing allowances. It's a little confusing the way that it worked, she wouldn't have gotten as much, I don't think, as if she had a husband who was working, and then she would have gotten slightly more. But she would have gotten some kind of clothing allowance for you and Janice and for herself.

PS: Okay. Because she never said, but I know she always had us, I've seen pictures, we're kind of in a dress."

RM: And you don't think that she worked in Manzanar?

PS: She never said she did anything. I don't know you could if you had two young ones, I mean, there would be, like, we're only eighteen months apart. Somebody would have to be there all the time.

RM: Do you know if she or Mume had any savings?

PS: No, I don't think they had savings. Because Mume never worked, and Uncle Ben was gone, unless he sent her some money. But I asked my mother one time, said, "Was anybody sending you money?" She said, "No." So I said, "Oh."

RM: Yeah, this would have been just bare bones, whatever she could get. So you were born in April of '44.

PS: April 20th.

RM: And then you told me earlier that you don't remember what Manzanar was like, which makes sense. But I was amazed that your mom didn't leave until just days before the camp actually shut down, in November of '45. Can you tell us about, I guess in part, why she made a decision to stay in Manzanar for so long, and not try to relocate out of the camp.

PS: She said 'cause she didn't know what to do, she didn't know where to go, and she didn't have anybody to go to. I don't think she had any money. If you really think about it, she probably never had a job. She said, "I waited 'til the last moment." But she did say they issued her a trailer in Burbank, and that's where she moved to. So they would have had to make arrangements, or maybe she wasn't going to get the trailer until towards the end. She never talks about the ride there, she had to have taken a bus and then the train again, which would have let her off right near that trailer park.

RM: Do you know if... was she taking care of her mother in Manzanar?

PS: You know, by the time I was, I had to be... I wasn't a teenager then, but I do remember going to Stockton to the mental institute or hospital there. My grandma was there, so I don't know whether Uncle Ben had her committed, or whether he could have her committed before the war was over, do you think that's possible?

RM: Yes, it's possible.

PS: Because that's where she was.

RM: That should be, we should be able to find that out on the roster.

PS: Yeah, she was there, we used to visit her. She was eventually transferred to San Bernardino.

RM: So before we exit camp to the Burbank government trailer housing, I wanted to ask you if there's anything else that your mom told you about Manzanar that I have skipped.

PS: Yeah, we got to go to the Halloween thing, she went to all events in camp.

RM: Did she talk about dances and that kind of thing?

PS: No, she never talked about dances. The only things I see are the pictures she has, what is it, the Halloween party, and I think there was another picture of us. I have another one where we're sitting in front of a barrack, it has tarpaper, that's all I know. We had to be in camp.

RM: Do you know if she ever went to any of the church events in Manzanar?

PS: I know. She got converted to Catholicism because of Maryknoll, the missionaries there, and then she got converted there.

RM: They were busy, they converted hundreds of people in Manzanar. [Laughs] Did she talk about what the Catholic church was like or why she chose to convert?

PS: Well, I don't know, but there was... one of the Fathers ended up, my... Janice's godfather, but I can't remember his name. But he watched over her until she was in her early teens, he would send notes to my sister.

RM: Does Steinbach ring a bell?

PS: That was the Father, but there was somebody else, another person. She had letters, you know, from the father there. I can't find them because when our house was broken into, all these papers were all over the house. We thought we found most of it, but it was really kind of hard to gather up everything. She used to have it all in one place. It was actually a wicker basket that must have been something either that she brought either from camp or from home with our things in it.

RM: And she still had that?

PS: Uh-huh.

RM: Wow. So is there anything else about the Catholic church that she told you about in Manzanar?

PS: No, but she was a very devout Catholic, I'll tell you.

RM: Was she?

PS: Yes. She knew all the prayers. And when I was older and we used to go, she used to remember everything. Of course, I remembered nothing. [Laughs]

RM: Did she remember any of the gardens in Manzanar or any of the agriculture that was going on?

PS: No, she never mentioned that.

RM: That was outside the fence, so it might have been beyond where she was going.

PS: Well, even the garden, or the pond that they had, that was kind of far for her to walk to, wasn't it?

RM: Merritt Park, yeah, it would have been sort of on the way to the hospital for her. When she was on her way to the hospital, she probably wasn't in the mood to stop at Merritt Park. Yeah, Kristen, did you have questions about camp?

KL: Did your grandmother ever receive any kind of mental healthcare in Manzanar?

PS: My mom never said anything, no.

KL: I mean, I have heard occasionally from other people about people who, somebody schizophrenic or the kids were scared of because of explosive outbursts or whatever, so I'm always curious about that.

PS: She never said anything. But he either had her committed before he left for the army, or either there must have been a special place for her in the camp, because my mother never mentions her.

KL: Did your mother ever say anything more about those neighbors who were on the other side of the wall, that there apartment was enlarged? Was there ever anything more to that story, if she would bang on the wall or about their reaction?

PS: No. But yeah, she said she just beat on that wall. She would actually yell, "Dorobo."

RM: What is that?

PS: I think it means "thief."

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.