<Begin Segment 11>

RM: So let me ask, let's move forward into that questionnaire that the government gave out to everyone in the camps, that asked people to answer some questions about whether they would forswear allegiance to the Japanese emperor and serve in the U.S. Army if called to do so. How did your family respond to that questionnaire?

PS: My mother said "yes-yes," and my father said "no-no." So my mother said "yes-yes," "that I was an American, I'm not leaving." And like I've said before, she said she'd join the WAVEs, the WACAs or anything, she wasn't leaving this country. And I guess she must have known when my father signed "no-no" that he'd be leaving.

RM: There was a lack of certainty in February of what those answers meant to people's lives. But later on in the summer it would have become apparent that it meant segregation. Do you know why your dad answered "no-no"?

PS: Because his parents told him to.

RM: Do you know why they answered "no-no"?

PS: Well, because they weren't citizens of this country. And they probably never could apply to become citizens because of the Asian Exclusion Act. And they felt that they had a better chance if they went back to Japan. So that's why he said "no-no," because he was the firstborn son, and I think it was irresponsible for his family.

RM: Did your mom ever talk about conversations she had with her husband about that?

PS: Well, I asked my mother, and I explained to her, I said, "Well, maybe he had to do it because he was the firstborn, Mom." "No, he was a mama's boy. He did whatever she told him to do." And that's all she'd ever say about him. So she was angry. I think maybe she was disappointed with a little bit of anger in there.

RM: Did the rest of her family answer "yes-yes"?

PS: I would assume they did, because no one, her brothers and sisters, none of them left. Like I said, they went to Chicago, and Uncle Ben was drafted.

RM: Did she ever talk about what the, I guess, mood maybe in Manzanar was like during that questionnaire process?

PS: You know, she never... I don't know whether she just felt isolated there, but she never talks about people she met or talked to. It always seems like she was alone just with her, with Janice, and then eventually me. Never talks about my grandmother, and the only other person she talks about is her brother Ben.

RM: Does she remember what the process was like of answering the questionnaire?

PS: She didn't say that, she just said she signed it and that was it.

RM: That was it?

PS: Yeah. So how did it develop... so obviously your parents both had conflicting answers, and though they may not have known right away what that meant, it definitely meant that something would happen.

RM: Right. How did, I guess, their marriage change after that point, or did it change, because that was February of '43, and then your dad wasn't segregated to Tule Lake until February of '44, so that's an entire year of them still being, I guess, a couple.

PS: Well, they were a couple because then she has me in April. So sometime during the summer or fall, she has to... they've obviously gotten together. So maybe she didn't think he was leaving, I don't know.

RM: Yeah, maybe she thought he was going to actually stay somehow?

PS: Or maybe she thought she could convince him to stay, or maybe he wouldn't really do that knowing that he had a child.

RM: Did she ever consider... I know she wouldn't say "no-no," but did she ever consider asking to go to Tule Lake with him? Though if his ultimate aim was to go back to Japan, that ultimately wouldn't have done her any good. But there were some "yes-yes" family members who went with their family, their "no-no" family to Tule Lake. Do you know if she ever considered that option?

PS: She never said anything, she just... I think she was not leaving, period. She wouldn't have jeopardized leaving the country.

RM: So is there anything that happened before your dad went to Tule Lake that I should ask about that your mom ever told you about?

PS: I Don't think so. Because I didn't even know when he left for Tule Lake, I just knew that he was gone before I was born, and that his parents asked to buy Janice.

RM: To buy?

PS: To buy her.

RM: Oh, my gosh, wow.

PS: And I think it was their only grandchild, and she said, "No, they don't sell children in this country."

RM: How did that conversation even happen?

PS: Well, I think because it was their firstborn son's child, they assumed that she'd give up that child, and they're thinking that she couldn't take care of that child alone. How could a single woman take care of a child?

RM: Do you know when they asked her that? Was it right after the "loyalty questionnaire" was signed?

PS: It had to be before they were gonna actually leave, I would think, before they would have said that to her.

RM: Did they know she was pregnant with you at that time?

PS: I don't know. I know when he left, he had to have known that she was pregnant with me.

RM: Yeah, 'cause if he left in the end of February '44 and you were born in April, it would have been probably obvious.

PS: Right. So maybe they did know she was pregnant and they figured she was gonna have another child, and what was giving up one? My mother would have never done that knowing the way her life had gone when she was young. I don't think she would have ever given up a child, because she knows of her past situation.

RM: What did she say about the day that they left, if anything?

PS: She never, ever mentioned the day they left. She never, ever said anything.

RM: Did she talk about, there were about two thousand people who went from Manzanar to Tule Lake. Did she talk about anyone leaving?

PS: No, never. She was very... I mean, like I said, she barely said anything to me until I would ask her questions. And that would be only after I'd heard something from someone else, and I would want to know if that happened to her. And then sometimes she would open up a little bit, but most of the time it was always that same thing, "It's not a good time, Pat. I don't remember. It isn't anything to remember."

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.