Densho Digital Archive - Clyde Tichenor Interview (denshovh-tclyde

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KL: How has judo changed over the years in terms of philosophy or people who were interested?

CT: No, I don't think it did change. I don't think it changed, it's just different teachers. Teachers have different natures, some of them are just strictly out to teach martial arts, fighting. And that's not the true spirit of judo. And others are very more aesthetic about it, more like I am, and that is to teach the philosophy of judo as well as the self-defense.

KL: Did you teach at Seinan Dojo?

CT: Yes.

KL: So you were always involved in that same dojo?

CT: Yes.

KL: And you were talking last night about how popular judo is. Is that a change since the '40s?

CT: judo is fairly popular now. It was reasonably popular then because all my friends, once I was into it and explained it and they saw it, they all joined.

KL: Did women continue to practice judo in the 1950s and '60s?

CT: Yeah.

KL: How did that change or was it the same?

CT: But, of course, there is other martial arts, and tae kwan do, for example, became the big thing, because this was a money maker, and the Koreans were always looking for a way to make money. So whereas judo they didn't charge hardly anything to be in a judo club. The idea was you weren't there to make money, you were there to teach judo. But the Koreans were there to make money, and so they popularized tae kwan do and things like that, and judo went right on ignoring everything, quietly doing its doing. And the jujitsu clubs also popularized it a little bit, too, because they didn't have the same philosophy that was part of the judo regime.

KL: When Japanese American teachers and students came back to Los Angeles...

CT: Japanese were teaching judo, but it was the Koreans that came in that taught the other martial arts, and they were used to making money, and you weren't supposed to make a lot of personal money teaching judo. That wasn't what it was for. And so it was quite different, and it was a little disappointing because the public still doesn't know anything about judo hardly, and they're all into these other, more violent, attractive martial arts. And the thing is, learning judo, you pick up all this other stuff a lot as you're going along, and I did, too, in jujitsu. They gave me a sixth degree in black belt.

KL: Something you're talking about with different national groups and different sports and stuff made me curious about how Little Tokyo changed, the area around Seinan Dojo and the Japanese section of Los Angeles. How is that different in 1942 to right after World War II to now?

CT: Well, I think that judo people always were on the quiet side, they weren't supposed to be making big money. They didn't. In the meantime, the other groups had no such restriction, and so the teachers would sock it for all they could get out of it, and that's the way... the Americans were used to boxing, and it's a fisticuffs thing, it's a striking thing that made sense to them, so tae kwan do and some of those kicking and stuff like that are very palatable to the American mind when it comes to that.

KL: Do you think that white and black Americans and Koreans, there were more people coming to the Japanese section of town even? Did that part of town change after World War II?

CT: I can't tell you that because the club I was in, the dojo I was in, I was doing judo like you're supposed to do it.

KL: I do have one more question and then I know Mark has some. My question is about your visit to Manzanar. This is the first time you've been back here since that tournament. What have you noticed about the site or what have been your thoughts?

CT: All the houses are gone. [Laughs]

KL: It looks a little different, I'm sure.

CT: And I noticed there are no Japanese around. I'm surprised you don't have at least one on your staff.

KL: Our superintendent is actually Japanese, but he's on vacation this week. He'll be sad he missed you. Well, he's third-generation Japanese American. Anything else that stuck out when you went out to the dojo site?

CT: No, it was reminiscing. When you go out and see where, we finally found out where the place I practiced was, and you had the picture of the whole group there, got to see ourselves in the picture and stuff like that, I was very honored.

KL: Well, we're really grateful to you for coming out and doing this interview, I am personally and I know the Historic Site is, too.

CT: The only thing I could do more for you now would be to start teaching you judo.

KL: Yeah, well, stick around. Let me, I know Mark has some questions, and then I'll give you a chance to add anything.