<Begin Segment 8>

KL: Let's talk about... if this is a good time, let's talk about Ross Hopkins, his name has come up some. And I know you talked a little bit with ANPR and Hannah Nyala West about how and why he came in. But would you elaborate on Ross's background and how he came to be the first staffperson and the superintendent?

ER: Okay. Well, in brief, Ross was a very talented historian in the National Park Service. We first met in 1963, I think it was. And our paths never crossed (again) until he came to Death Valley as a cultural resource management specialist. But he had been a park superintendent, and he had been a historian, and a variety of jobs. But he came to Death Valley as a cultural resource management specialist. And in about '92 when we started getting involved in Manzanar, with his being a very sharp historian, he was interested in helping and great, wonderful. So Ross and I usually went to all the sessions and pilgrimages. If I couldn't go, I counted on Ross for carrying all the activity there. I think he was very positive about it. I don't know if we need any more on Ross or not...

KL: Would you talk a little bit about the relationship that developed between him and either others within the National Park Service or stakeholders like the Manzanar Committee or the advisory commission? What was the relationship that he had with them?

ER: Okay. When the question came up, should Ross be the superintendent of Manzanar, I suggested Ross being the first superintendent there. Because, one, he had been a superintendent before, and I knew he'd love to be a superintendent again. And what I saw in working with Ross on some of these committees is that he, I think, had to, he earned the respect of the Japanese American people. I think the Rose Ochis, the Sue Embreys, the key Japanese Americans, I could sense that they personally liked Ross and they respected him, and I thought that was a key thing. So I think, as far as I know, I've never heard anything negative. And I really haven't been in touch with any of the key people that he worked with, but prior to his getting the superintendency there, it seems like we overlapped a short period of time, from the time he was appointed superintendent and I retired. But I got the feeling there was a good relationship between, and I guess Dennis Otsuji would be a good one to ask on that. But I had the feeling that he was respected by the people. And I know he had a little problems with some of the non-Japanese Americans in the Owens Valley, you know, the Bob Tanner type persons, that he had a little trouble with. But that was their problem, I think, more than his. But I just felt that he was a good positive to get started down there. But I think you've had some outstanding people as superintendents there since then.

KL: Do you want to ask other things? I have a list of, sort of, National Park Service officers. I want to just circle back to the Manzanar Advisory Commission and a bunch of other parties, but about Ross or Albright?

AL: Well, actually, you've mentioned Bob Tanner several times, but in the years that I've been there and the few years before that, William Hastings was a big opponent up in Bishop, and I'm curious about your awareness of him, if you ever met him?

ER: I am not aware that I ever met him, but Ross... lot of that stuff in that pile there are news clippings and all that Ross sent me. And I can see that he certainly was not a friend of Manzanar. And there were several other people that I know basically just from the news clippings that Ross sent.

AL: I've heard a story from several people that Ross had received death threats and other threats of physical harm to himself and to the [inaudible]. Do you know anything about that, and could you elaborate?

ER: Boy, I sure don't. I mean, this is the first I've heard of death threats. But I know there were some angry people up there. I just... I think our discussions here will stimulate me, when the snow gets deep next winter and I go through my notes, some of this stuff will come back. Did Ross really say something like that, he was receiving death threats? I don't recall if he did. I'm sorry to hear that. But that happens with a lot of bureaucrats, I mean, or not bureaucrats, public officials. I know the BLM has been catching flack down in Nevada with Clive Bundy and his crew. Not so much Clive Bundy and his crew, but the outsiders who came in with guns to support his stand. They were, BLM was getting some death threats and all.

KL: How did you supervise Ross Hopkins? Like how often did you all talk, how independent of an operator was he?

ER: He was a fairly independent operator, but we talked a couple times a week while our tours overlapped there. And I got a lot of emails from him, and news clippings, almost every week I'd count on getting something from him. And he would go to our staff meetings, I don't recall how consistent that was, you know, to fill us in on Manzanar. Because we just felt very good about Manzanar. One thing that was kind of interesting, when Stan Albright said that he would appoint Ross Hopkins as superintendent, he said, "Ed, he's under your supervision, though." And I just felt that the superintendent of Manzanar should report directly to the regional director. "No, not while I'm regional director. He reports to you." He didn't want to have anything to do with Ross personally. And it's too bad, I'm glad Ross retired, then they did elevate the direct communication from the superintendent of Manzanar directly to the regional director.

KL: Did it seem like there was a personal component to that, or was it other issues?

ER: Oh, it was personal. Ross wasn't the easiest person to supervise. He had his good days and bad days, and you had to know how to work around those. Because he was a tremendous performer on the good days, and on the bad days, just let him get over it. [Laughs]

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.