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KL: So when and sort of under what circumstances did you start to become aware, or did it become apparent that Manzanar was going to be, or was being considered to be a unit of the National Park Service?

ER: Well, I thought that was fantastic, because that's a national story, I mean, international story, and think of all the World War II and all that. It just, to me, it was fantastic. I couldn't see any other agency handling it, the National Park Service was so appropriate, so that was great.

KL: How did that news make it to you, or when did you, how did you kind of learn?

ER: Well, at the pilgrimage they were discussing this, and there was a proposal going forth. And that's when John Reynolds got kind of involved. I'm not sure the dates and how that fits in there, but it was established in, what, '92 was the year?

KL: It was authorized, yeah.

ER: Okay. At that time, I guess it's just after that, we were excited it was happening. And we had been somewhat involved getting interested and excited about it. Ross Hopkins was excited, and George Voyta, and Sue (Buchel), all the people in Death Valley that had been up there and met some of the people, they were, "Wow, this is great." And John Reynolds, who was then the deputy director of the National Park Service, landscape architect, his background had been in planning and been a superintendent. And he, being a landscape architect, said, "We've got to get a study going on there of what to do." And he invited this list of about a dozen of the really top landscape architects that were Japanese American. And so Ross Hopkins and I went up, and they were coming out to spend a week in Manzanar doing a preliminary plan. And we met them up there and we stayed at the hotel there in Independence. And they were just a neat group. And one of them kind of struck my interest there, was Ron Izumita. And he said, "I brought my father with me." He said, "My father was interned in Manzanar." And he said, "You know, I've never, never gotten anything from my father about being interned in Manzanar. I grew up in the house, and I kept asking about Manzanar, he just shut up. He wouldn't say a word about it." And he said, "Dad, I'm going up to Manzanar to work on this landscape architect team for the Park Service. Why don't you come with me?" But finally Ron won, and his father reluctantly came along. And that night at dinner he was just sitting there as a grumpy old man, didn't say anything. And the next morning, all of us got up and we went up to Manzanar to walk over the site, and started talking about it. And his father just reluctantly went along. So the twelve of us or so, Ross and I, and I forget who else from the Park Service may have been there. (Possibly Dan Olson.) But we all went around and talked about Manzanar and the things there. And some of these had been interned there as youngsters, but all of them were very familiar with Manzanar, and then, wow, it's a park. And Ron's father -- and I can't remember his name -- but he just wandered off by himself. At lunch he came in with a big smile on his face, and he was so excited. He said, "You know what?" He said, "I was walking around Manzanar," and he was a young adult there at Manzanar, and he worked in the fire department, he was on the fire brigade for Manzanar. And he also was on the baseball team, he was third baseman. And he said, "I walked out there, and kicking around the sagebrush, and I found the hook where third base was hooked." And boy, it opened him up. I mean, he was nonstop talk from then on. And we went up, when the toured the museum there at Independence, "Hey, there's me." And he pointed out from the picture of the baseball team, "That's me right there, third baseman." But it was so exciting to see somebody who had just locked up inside for sixty years, or fifty years, and all of a sudden, something broke loose. Finding that little pin that held the third base just excited. And I could point on the map where the block is, you probably knew offhand where the baseball team, base field was. I don't know if there was more than one. But that's just kind of one of the little highlights of working with these people, is to find little sparks of excitement.

KL: And John Reynolds put that landscape architecture team together?

ER: Yes, yes. John, I think of the Park Service hierarchy, I have to give John credit, being just one of the real champions of Manzanar. And when it comes to regional office, Dave Cherry and his staff, all this staff were supportive of Manzanar. Everybody that you got there in the historical planning panels, and Roger... Dave Cherry's team were all very, very supportive of Manzanar.

KL: What form did that support take?

ER: From?

KL: Like from the regional office and the landscape planning?

ER: Well, Dave Cherry got Dan Olson out there to be... he's head of one of the planning teams there. He got the landscape -- or not the landscape architects, but the archeologist involved, and I imagine he made the contact with, is it Burton?

KL: Jeff Burton?

ER: I think he's the one who probably orchestrated getting all that help out there. Because all those Park Service people you see that were involved in Manzanar from the regional office or from WACC, all were the kind of support we were getting. Didn't get it from the regional director, but he got it from his deputy, or not his deputy, but his head of cultural resources, natural resources. Yeah, Dave Cherry was one of my champions, too, when we had the big burro removal program in Death Valley. I mean, he was always there to support anything in natural and cultural resources.

KL: So it was kind of a universal, I mean, he was just committed to his field. Or was there anything specific to Manzanar that you ever spoke about as a reason for his championing?

ER: Well, I just can't think of anything specific, but the whole general aspect. And he supported his team, and that's why, "How is Dan Olson working down there?" "How's Ray Murray?" He mentioned all these people, he would always check. And I could only give good reports because all those people, from Jeff Burton, from WACC and the others, they were just first class people there that really, I think really loved Manzanar and really put their best effort out there. And looking back, from my thirty-six years in the National Park Service, I could feel that Manzanar excites me, because it was probably one of the best events where a new park was established. And it had some struggles in the beginning to get staffing and money and all. But my god, how that has come together. I mean, that's a fantastic park now, it seems like it's well-staffed, probably well-funded, and well appreciated. And I know Ross Hopkins has some trouble with a few naysayers in the Owens Valley that didn't want that camp to be there. But I think time has solved those problems. Most of them have passed away now. It's not a nice thing to say, but it's true.

KL: What about John Reynolds? Did he ever speak about why he was such a strong supporter of Manzanar?

ER: Not specifically, I can recall anything. I mean, John was just, he was, I'd say, a darn good regional director (...) and certainly a deputy director (of NPS). He cared about the resource, he cared about the Park Service. So I don't know that he would have felt any different about any other area, but I always found him a very positive supporter. And he played a major role in Death Valley when it became a national park, and the role of the National Park Service to the Timbisha tribe and played a major role there.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2015 Manzanar National Historic Site and Densho. All Rights Reserved.